After today, I think Obama may have made a mistake in not selecting Hillary as VP

[TeamJordan23]

The Clinton of today would have been an asset.

[scheming daemons]

1. Just wait.... tomorrow night you'll love Joe Biden

[KittyWampus]

2. the Clinton of tonight was just giving a speech

[joshcryer]

73. No... that was actually Hillary.

Yeah, it was, believe it or not.

[Lucinda]

128. Yup.

[vaberella]

143. That's the problem. That says she wasn't HRC during the primaries. n/t

[Balderdash]

3. She's the same Clinton today

that she was yesterday.

[Zhade]

20. Except that maybe after tonight a majority of registred voters WOULD want her on his ticket.

NT!

[vaberella]

145. This could be the case but this wasn't the case before this last speech and after the primaries.

Remember, there was a lot of issues with HRC on the ticket for a lot of people. Further more, she's old world politics for me still despite her great speech last night. I don't see her as change and she NEVER sold her self on that front in relation to politics, just to her gender.

[Barack_America]

4. She will still be an asset. And she's going to be a force to be reckoned with in the Senate.

Teddy has a torch to pass there too.

[Labors of Hercules]

8. ding ding ding.

She will be a legacy in the Senate... just you wait.

[tblue37]

58. I'd rather see her on the Supreme Court--for life.

That would fry the Republicans and give her a lifetime position with the stature she desrves.

[Frances]

5. Hillary would have been a great President or vice President,

but I trust Obama and Biden will be even better

[book_worm]

6. She was wonderful, but tomorrow night Biden will have the convention on fire and introduce

himself to the country strongly.

[scarletwoman]

7. Pfft. It was one speech -- she HAD to do a good job.

I still don't want her in the White House.

[polmaven]

19. There ya go!

Way to do your part to be sure the Party is united!

[scarletwoman]

40. Why? Because I'm not falling all over myself with new-found Hillary love?

I was responding to the idea that she should have been the VP pick. I very much disagree.

I'm being completely consistant with how I've felt for years, one speech isn't going to change my mind. I didn't put her down, I didn't criticize her speech, all I said was that I don't want her in the White House.

And last time I looked, it's OBAMA that the party needs to unite around, not Hillary.

sw

(edited for missing word in my subject line)

[polmaven]

50. Go away!

!

[scarletwoman]

60. Geeze. Get a fucking grip. (nt)

[Zhade]

77. She doesn't have to go away. She's entitled to her opinion.

NT!

[polmaven]

135. She is entitled to her opinion

and the PARTY is entitled to UNITY! "Pfft! It was just one speech" is not promoting unity!

[vaberella]

156. How is it promoting "disunity" is my question? n/t

[polmaven]

163. To continue to brush off

a highly respected Democrat, who, as even Michelle obama seems to agree, "put 18,000,000 cracks in that glass ceiling", with a "Pfft, It was just a speech", is at best disrespect. THAT is how it is promoting disunity.

The implication that President and Senator Clinton are not needed in this fight. THAT is how it is promoting disunity.

Each and EVERY Democrat is VITAL in this battle. Electing President Obama is too important to continue to hold grudges.

[dionysus]

104. i really hope you weren't part of that crew accusing obama supporters of stifling peoples opinions..

but you probably were.

why so much loyalty to a couple of self-serving politicians? like they give a shit about you...

[polmaven]

136. This type of

CRAP doesn't even deserve a response.

[JTFrog]

114. Did you tell Hillary to go away when she said that about Obama... "And Obama has a speech...."

Hypocritical bullshit.

[polmaven]

137. No, and I didn't tell

Senator Obama to go away when he put out the Harry and Louise fliers, either.

Get in into your mind! That was a very, very unifying speech last night. It helps NOTHING to blow that off with a "Pfft, it was just one speech", and continue with the dis-unifying sh**.


If we are going to get Senator Obama elected, we need to be ONE party. Senator Clinton did that last night.

[polmaven]

134. The tone of that post was QUITE obvious

beginning with the "PFFT"...and continuing with "it was one speech". The sneer and snort come through loud and clear, and come across as petty and somewhat dismissive.

You were not even able to give her credit for the absolute unity that she showed. "She HAD to do a good job"

You were not even able to put it away for 24 hours. Get over it. They were opponents. Now they are together. Petty attitude will not put Senator Obama in the White House. That will take ALL of us. We are DEMOCRATS...not opponents.

John McCain and George W. Bush are our opponents.

[vaberella]

158. What you don't seem to understand

is that this speech should have been her concession speech rather than really the DNC speech. It's a little for some people and you can't sit there and say "well know she's doing her duty". This is not to say throughout her run over the summer she wasn't promoting unity but it was lack luster with a husband who was inciting even more disunity during her run for Obama. This needs to be respected and you can't expect everyone to be let bygones be bygones. Give them the bloody time.

[polmaven]

162. i will beg to differ

in that her concession speech on June 7 WAS an endorsement of Barack Obama. It di, however, also NEED to be about her gratitude towards those who had worked so hard for her during the campaign, and about THEM. She was saying THANK-YOU during that speech, in addition to endorsing Senator Obama. THAT speech needed to be about both!

I will also STRONGLY disagree that her support was "lackluster" or that President Clinton "incited" anything since June 7. She did everything she was asked to do during the summer, and it would have been improper for her to do anything on her own without the approval of the campaign.

Give them time? It has been nearly 3 months. WE don't HAVE any more time. We need to be unified, and we need to be unified NOW! We do NOT have the luxury of continued hard feelings. President Pbama is NOT an "option", it is a MUST. We will have time to nurse our hurt feelings AFTER the election!

[endthewar]

160. Why don't you lecture the OP on party unity and supporting the Dem ticket?

I see your biased criticism only goes one way. Just saying. :-)

[Zhade]

39. Agreed. But at least she did what had to be done.

Sure, her political career would have been dead if she tried to stage a coup, but that was never really going to happen.

[scarletwoman]

41. Yes, she did what had to be done. And did a reasonably good job of it.

I just get tired of all the over-reaction that goes on around here. People just emoting all over the damn place -- ugh.

She did what had to be done, and it's a good thing.

sw

[blm]

84. They always PERFORM speeches well when the situation demands it of them. It's their actions behind

the scenes that define their willingness to fuck over other Democratic leaders and fock over the party and its voters. Their willingness to manipulate party power to serve their needs above the Dem candidates in 2000, 2002 and 2004 was apparent.

[Bake]

123. Obviously "party unity" is an illusion.

As it has almost always been with Democrats.

Bake

[blm]

129. We didn't realize how much of an illusion till Gore's camp had their say in Vanity Fair

last year. http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/11/clinton200711

And Bill's booktour in summer2004 centered around his unwavering support for Bush on his terrorism and Iraq war decisions.

THAT type of party unity is more in line with what you find acceptable, eh?

[progressivebydesign]

139. there are none so blind as those who will not see.

That is the real Hillary. Your hatred blinds you to the truth about her.

[vaberella]

153. I agree with scarletwoman. One speech IS one speech. However incredible it was. n/t

[washingdem]

9. Wait for Biden.

[derby378]

10. Biden will have to work his ass off to top Hillary tomorrow

She delivered what was possibly her best speech ever.

[FogerRox]

26. No way, I saw Hillary in New Hampshire, she freakin rocked in January.

[greguganus]

89. And if Biden doesn't deliver at least as well as Hillary, the media will be all over this. n/t

[nyc 4 Biden]

116. I think the MSM . . .

. . . has it's story and will stick to it no matter what happens. They simply adjust their spin to include the current events.

[Bake]

124. Yeah ... it'll end up being Hill's fault, I'm sure.

Bake

[vaberella]

146. HER best speech. You haven't seen Biden speak if you think he has to work his ass off.

The man delivers a speech just as good as Obama and what more he takes it a step further by being EXTREMELY passionate about his topic. There's no pausing, you get on his speech train and you are running with him to the next stop. His speeches are moving and something to behold. Obama is beautiful with words but Biden takes you somewhere else. He's a fantastic orator and I'm glad he's there and I don't think he needs to work his ass off.

Go to youtube.com if you need to see some Biden because he's great.

[democrattotheend]

11. Hard to say

I had really mixed feelings about the prospect of HRC as VP...if Bill didn't come as part of the package I'd feel differently.

[jbnow]

109. I don't think it could be Hillary, not an option with

all the post presidency issues already known and more likely to have been found with the vetting. I get mad at Bill, he knew Hillary would be running one day and he should have been so much wiser in setting up the library and foundation donations and in his associations.

I was always worried how republicans would use it, there was plenty already out in the print media over the past year+ even if it didn't get TV media attention.
Then I knew it would have to get in the way of her being VP

[jesus_of_suburbia]

12. I think Hillary can do even greater things in the Senate.. (or a Cabinet position)

[musicblind]

36. Health and Human Services maybe?

or even Secretary of State? :)

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

81. Health & Human Services is my guess for her

He needs a Madeline Albright for SOS in the current world situation.

[Bake]

126. She'd have to be crazy to take a cabinet post.

Her position in the Senate will be much stronger.

Bake

[Cha]

13. Keee Riiist! Yay Joe Biden!

Who Obama chose, especially, to work with him over the next four years!

[Kaylee]

14. Leave it lie....let's bask in our unity for at least one night.

[az chela]

15. Biden had tears in his eyes while she was speaking

[greguganus]

90. I hope he wasn't thinking, "Oh shit, my speech sucks compared to this!" n/t

[oviedodem]

16. I don't think this country would have elected both an AA and a Women at the

same time. Sad to say it.

[THUNDER HANDS]

17. because Obama needs someone who can give a speech

he's not really good at them, right?

[phrenzy]

18. No way

I really don't think so. She does not to deserve to be a person "in the background". She should either be a governor, get a high level cabinet position. Then, later, if she wants it, she should be president in, say, 2016.

[TheKentuckian]

25. Before the coming of Chimpy

the Senate was the meat on the plate. That's how the government is supposed to be.

Hillary Clinton is on no one's backburner, she's going to be EXTREMELY relevant and I suspect key to getting meaningful legislation passed.

[stlsaxman]

21. self-deleted

[oviedodem]

22. That will be tommorrow

[stlsaxman]

27. thank you, you are correct.

[FogerRox]

23. No. I saw Hillary in New Hampshire, that was Hillary on fire.

What we saw tonight was more reserved, and careful.

[mmonk]

24. I prefer Joe and I think you'll agree as we go forward.

While Joe has his gaffes, he will deliver some clever sound bites before all this is over.

[Raine]

28. Biden will be a GREAT Veep

Obama made a GREAT choice, I have no doubt about it.

[Spazito]

29. Let's just celebrate Hillary's KICK ASS speech tonight, okay....

OPs like this, tonight, don't add to that celebration so let's just leave it alone for tonight, please?

[musicblind]

30. I wish that Hillary was VP as well

but I think that Biden is also an excellent choice and will do a great job. Biden was always in my top 3 even though Hillary was my first choice.

Biden is experienced
Biden is articulate
Biden is charismatic

I think we have chosen a good VP, and I'm not just saying that either. If we had chosen Bayh or Kaine I would be puking up.

You are right, Hillary would have been an AMAZING VP and was my favorite for the job, but Biden is also great and will blow us away tomorrow night.

:hug:

[tandot]

31. As a former Hillary supporter, I think she can do bigger things in the Senate

she wouldn't be as effective as VP. She'll be better in the Senate

[Jennicut]

32. Hillary showed grace tonight but I am happier with Biden as VP

He has such an expertise on the world, Obama really needs that now. He also will not be after the presidency and always looking down the road. Obama needs a good partner, I'm not sure Hillary would have done that. I do hope she has a great career in the Senate, we will need her if Obama wins. No way McCain.

[Trajan]

33. Clinton isnt going anywhere ....

She will be right here .....

Biden is extraordinary as well ..... We are lucky to have both in Obama's camp ...

[4themind]

34. We'll never know and I think discussing it now is relatively unhelpful

in helping to solve the current situation we face with the "army" we have right this moment. That could even come close to being to be a mistake unless Obama loses the election and a completely separate time continuum were created where hillary were placed in the V.P. role and a comparative measurement in performance could be observed(and even then you'd probably have to control for a dizzying number of other factors), personally I don't think it will happen and I won't spend a whole lot more time thinking about it. That being said I absolutely loved hillary's speech tonight and I hope it will go a long way towards helping barack win in the fall

[Arkana]

35. Joe Biden's no slouch--you'll see.

[DixieBlue]

37. She's still going to be an asset ...

And may prove an even more important player outside the White House.

Biden and Obama are going to kick some ass and take names and Clinton is going to help.

[Stop Cornyn]

38. After tonight, it's clear that Schweitzer or Hillary would have been the genius VP picks.

[Raster]

46. You haven't heard Biden speak yet.

[Stop Cornyn]

80. I've heard Biden speak many times. Did you catch Biden during the Roberts confirmation hearings?

[Raster]

83. No, I couldn't watch. I can't stand Roberts or the miserable excuse for a pResident

that nominated him.

[Laurab]

141. Because of ONE speech each?

I think the VP slot requires a little more than a speech. Biden has been chosen, and he's given tons of great speeches - and some that weren't so great. Nonetheless, he is our VP pick, and I think it was a "genius" one.

I'm not going by one speech - it's the debates I can't wait for. Biden will wipe the floor with whoever McLame picks. He gets called on by shrub for foreign policy advice. He's a charismatic guy who is at ease with people of all stripes and backrounds. He's the best possible choice, and Obama was wise to pick him.

Party unity would be getting behind the ticket that we have, not extolling the virtues of one who is no longer in the running. It really takes more than one great speech to be a "genius" pick. The Debates will be watched by a much larger audience, and may make the difference in the race. I can't wait to see BOTH of our candidates kick ass.

Obama/Biden '08

[angee_is_mad]

42. No he didn't

but tonite she has started the 1st step to redeeming herself. Now its bill's time.

[BlooInBloo]

43. Not.

[Midlodemocrat]

44. And, I think I made a mistake in not serving meatloaf for dinner.

*wrings hands*


:eyes:

[Beausoir]

51. I love meatloaf! How could you!!

Especially with tons and tons of pure horse radish on it.

How could you make a mistake such as that?

[Debi]

53. And your meatloaf is so darn good too.

It was a real mistake.

[blm]

86. mmmm....I love meatloaf...any leftovers? ;)

.

[JVS]

131. HA! Is it time for Chicken Pot Pie?

[jillan]

45. I was thinking that too.

[Debi]

54. ???

:shrug:

[jillan]

56. Hey - I love Hillary. Not some of the tactics she used during the campaign-

but I like what she stands for.

Nothing against Joe...at all.

Just can't help but wonder if she should have been the vp.
Then I think about Bill and how awkward that would have been - and I'm glad it's Joe :)

[Debi]

47. Oh Please - what will she do with the potential of a new Cold War with Russia?

Biden is exactly what Obama needs.

Clinton gave a great speech and she deserves praise for it.

Biden is the VP nominee - and he'll serve us well.

[1corona4u]

61. Exactly.

[followthemoney]

48. The left running Obama couldn't choose Clinton for VP.

That would have spoiled the purity of his position on which he ran against Clinton.

But as soon as she bowed out, Obama abandoned his left leaning posture.

He could have and should have picked Clinton after he moved to the right of her.

[Cha]

62. BULL...Obama chose who he will work

the best with for the next for years..not because of some hand wringing second guessers on DU.

[politicasista]

68. exactly n/t

[Beacool]

49. Of course it was a mistake!!!!!

The one opportunity to truly unite the party was squandered.

Biden is a fine man, but just one more older white guy, the same as the other older white guys that we've had for over 200 years.

[1corona4u]

101. I find your post offensive.

Truly.

[blondeatlast]

119. So would Hillary Clinton, sho clearly is set on electing Obama. nt

[dionysus]

107. and how would that clinton library donor list have turned out once it became public?

:eyes:

[blondeatlast]

118. There's NO disunity; Hillary made sure of that last night.

She told those "supporters" who didn't have the goal in sight to get off the train, basically. And you haven't. You don't support your avatar. You know it, I know it, and all of DU knows it.

I hope HRC doesn't know it, though.

:puke:

[vaberella]

149. Thank you sexism....added with a flair of racism. Ugh! n/t

:sarcasm:

[CreekDog]

151. so you are saying we should choose people based on race and gender?

look how well that worked out through our history. :eyes:

[napi21]

52. Wait until tomorrow when you see Joe in action! I still stand by my

belief that either Hillary or Biden would be a good choice. Trust Barack. Joe is HIS choice, and I believe it to be a good one.

[ProSense]

55. Right, because nothing says unite to win than casting doubt that the VP is the wrong choice.

That's why the division continues. It was one speech that Hillary had to give. The speech had to be approved by Obama, says something doesn't it?

[maximusveritas]

59. Agreed. This OP is just as divisive as those criticizing Hillary n/t

[Beacool]

64. The speech was not approved by Obama.

They didn't see the final draft as she changed it several times.

[scarletwoman]

67. Exactly. Thanks for saying it so succinctly.

She gave the speech she HAD to give. It was good, could have been better, but it's done -- thank gawd.

I'm so fucking sick of all the damn drama, enough is fucking enough. There's an election to win.

sw

[maximusveritas]

57. Jesus, Don't get carried away

If she's an asset at an event like this, then she can be an asset without being VP. To be VP, you have to be a team player, willing to take a backseat, and have the complete trust of your future President. Hillary Clinton doesn't qualify and today's speech, no matter how good, doesn't change that.

[Overseas]

63. I think Joe Biden is a better choice. Not a dynastic succession. /nt

[kennetha]

65. It was such an obvious mistake

that it does not speak well of the person who made it. I've said it before and I'll say again. Hillary as VP would have been a game changer.

But the die is cast and we have to play with the ticket we've been dealt.

[DevonRex]

85. "such an obvious mistake... that it does not speak well of the person who made it"

Either get on board or go spread your crap elsewhere.

[crankychatter]

88. they took a hiatus, and now their back telling us to "gtfo"

still bashing the man too

skepticism is verboten RE the former candidate

I can dig what's motivating that, but it's getting a little strident up in this house again, eh?

[DevonRex]

103. I think they want us to dance. :) nt

[Chloroplast]

95. And the division continues. You must be proud of your behavior.

[DevonRex]

105. Funny, but since Hillary did such a wonderful job last night, a few

people have tried even harder to divide us.

Well, it won't work. Because we're united as a party.

[dionysus]

108. uh, they won't vet bills library donor list, it wasn't even possible. it is over.

[krawhitham]

66. It was the right choice

McCain would run Hill bashing BO ads 24/7 until Nov.

She will get any job she wants from Obama after the election

[MarjorieG]

69. Biden message better. Obama's change, with Biden making it happen.

Remember sniper fire and foreign policy, with McCain willing to start with Georgia, rattle the sabers, to gain election advantage. Joe neutralizes that.

[Sparkly]

70. Pros and Cons...

They're both good, but together on a ticket, I'm not so sure...

[elkston]

82. Everyone assumes that she would have accepted. I think she always wanted to be #1. n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

71. Please don't start this shit again. We are working on healing and you keep bringing

this stupid shit up. Biden is the perfect choice. Get used to it and stop this divisive mess!!

[BlueIdaho]

72. Own a time machine?

If not - what's the point of all this arm chair quarterbacking?

[goletian]

74. i think youre terribly mistaken. obama knows what hes doing.

[2CheeseEnchiladas]

75. Get over it already..

if you can.

[redqueen]

76. Well call up Pat Buchanan and you two can have a nice chat about your concerns. (nt)

[crankychatter]

87. thanks for saying it for me....

you bust me up, AND, remind me that some of us are sane

[redqueen]

99. Hey there!

:hi:

Hadn't seen your posts in a while... hope you're doing well. :)

[crankychatter]

100. your omigoddies are cute

thanks, i'm goodenough

cranky q. goodenough

when i'm lauded posthumously, remember that nom d' plumage

[redqueen]

102. Hahahahahah...

;)

[MarjorieG]

93. The MSM is sowing discontent, regardless of worthiness. Foreign policy KEY to comfort.

[farmboxer]

78. Hillary is a very good person. I can't believe what some have said

about her. I will not fall for the Repub tricks, no Dem should. Why bash Hillary?! It's time for the haters to let it go! The hatred is only causing problems, but just about everyone has found that out. Let it go. I do not want McCain to get into office, if he does it will destroy what's left of not only America,but the world. McCain is the enemy.

[Hatchling]

79. She IS an asset.

Note: This is long please read past the first paragraph or just go to the end. :)

I voted for her in primaries. I declared I wouldn't vote for Obama, ever ,until she dropped from the race and asked me to. I have wanted her to be President since she was First Lady so that was a hard thing for me to do but I did. Still I held out hope that she would be the VP Choice.

But it became clear to me that far from being a uniting factor, choosing her would continue to divide us. M$M/GOP would continue to use her to increase the divide just as they are doing now. They would have fostered more resentment between the camps.

As a Hillary supporter (ashamed as I am of the feelings, but honest) I would have celebrated with a "neener-neener, he does need her." And watched with glee as certain posters exploded. Way to create unity, NOT!

I can get behind Joe Biden. He IS NOT just some old white guy. He is a champion for women's rights. He is an statesman with "gravitas" who will be listened to when he attacks McCain, not attacked (as would be the case with Hillary and for that matter Obama as well) for attacking the "venerable war hero."

I love Hillary.

Joe is RIGHT!

Barack America!

[crankychatter]

91. I've liked some of your previous posts, and suspect that you mean well but I've decided

... functionally, this thread is bait

[Raffi Ella]

92. I can't tell you how happy I am

to see the love and respect and admiration of Senator Clinton here at D.U.! I can't believe it really,lol.




having said that, I am more than pleased with Obama/, Biden, it's a strong ticket. And! Senator Clinton will be there, working with them and together there will no stopping a Democratic agenda in the White House!

:dem:

[SeaLyons]

98. Ditto!!!

you took the words right out of my mouth.

[Raffi Ella]

115. It's a good day to be a Democrat and an UN believable day here at D.U.!

:hug:

[SoxFan]

94. Three months of this sort of thing?

Blahblahblah WHITEWATER blahblahblahblah TRAVELGATE blahblahblah VINCE FOSTER blahblahblah CATLLE FUTURES blahblahblah SHAME ON YOU BARACK OBAMA blahblahblah LIBRARY DONORS blahblahblah

[ContinentalOp]

96. Barack has the experience to be the President. Biden has the experience to be the VP.

Hillary has a speech she gave last night.

:P

[Peacetrain]

97. Biden was a great choice.

And that is no distraction on Hillary or Bill Richardson, or any of the litany of other good canidates for VP. Biden is the best choice for Barack.

[dionysus]

106. they never could have vetted the library business. she was never a possibility.

[phleshdef]

110. I still think that Bill Clinton was the problem

Lets face it. Had Barack vetted all the Clinton finances, there may have been things related to Bill's foundation that could have been problems for the ticket as a whole. Insiders from both campaigns have alluded to as much.

And we all KNOW how much of a field day the MSM has had and would love to continue to have when anything negative regarding Bill Clinton comes to light. You can bet your ass that the Republicans all ready had a wealth of Clinton opposition research ready to fire off had Hillary became the nominee or the VP pick.

I'm not "anti-Clinton" or anything and I've always been one to give both Clinton's their due when warranted. But I have to agree that its better for Barack to have a running mate, like Biden, who has a clean record and seemingly no skeletons lurking around in the closet than to risk the wrath of the "vast right wing conspiracy" that seems to eternally have its collective eyes aimed at Bill and Hillary Clinton. Hillary could give the best speeches ever spoken in the history of humanity and that would still not be enough to combat the likely havok the Republican machine and the MSM would wreak on the entire Democratic ticket. Obama has enough of that garbage to deal with when they are on the attack against the character of himself and Michelle. Had he taken Hillary, I fear those attacks may have ended up multiplied by magnitudes.

[iconicgnom]

111. oh please. Will it NEVER end?

[BlooInBloo]

113. It sure looks like they'll never quit.

[CakeGrrl]

112. We have our ticket. Can we move on and help them fight the Right and the MSM? n/t

[w4rma]

117. Obama made the right choice in not selecting someone who refused to be vetted without being assured

of the VP spot.

[Virginia Dare]

120. I seriously doubt it..

there's no chemistry between Obama and Hillary.

Anyway, it's over and time to move one. I'm sick and tired of debating it.

[bunnies]

121. Sucked in like a rock by a tornado. How quickly some forget.

:banghead:

[okieinpain]

122. I think he should have picked her too, but not because of the speech

it would have shut up these puma women...

[Mad_Dem_X]

125. Not me. Biden will make an excellent VP.

And I'm not just saying that because he's my senator. :)

[BeyondGeography]

127. Dumb...with Hill, you get Bill

What's the matter, not enough mental exhaustion in your life?

[Independent-Voter]

130. Absolutely not. Her baggage is ENORMOUS, and Bill is acting fucking nuts these days.

[Bensthename]

132. She stabbed Obama in the back too many times.. Though she did give a great speech.

[mokawanis]

133. One speech does not a VP make

Her speech was one of the best I've heard this season but it doesn't change the dynamics. Biden is the right choice.

[progressivebydesign]

138. That Clinton was always there... half the Dems just wouldn't see it.

I watched her speech again today.. and I found it so sad that because I was always her supporter, THAT was the Hillary I supported. But if I was supporting another candidate, I would have never admitted how awesome she'd be as either Prez or VP, regardless of that. Just as I didn't care for Obama during the primaries... I saw him speak without a teleprompter, I saw how many of his speeches were put together by Axelrod, using pieces from his other clients, I was not impressed. Well.. let's say I refused to be impressed with him... because Hillary was my gurl.

Now that Hillary has dropped out, I threw my support behind Obama. Just as I had when Kerry became the nominee. Until that moment.. I was resistant to any of the other candidates.

That Hillary we saw last night.. is Hillary. And.. she can speak like that without a prompter, because she knows her shit. And though the Obama support here on the political sites is far too hardcore to allow it, I have a feeling there was some buyer's remorse going on last night around the Country. Had Obama given her the VP slot, this election would have been a slam dunk. Biden is a good guy, a strong fighter, but American voters are transfixed by one thing now. THE ECONOMY. And that was Hillary's strength. I think that Obama and Hillary would have made an unbeatable team.

I'm sad to think that some people who don't even know a thing about Hillary and her work are insisting that it's "only a speech" Hillary walked her talk, and always has, some people fell for the republican media making this into a war between them.

[kennetha]

140. Excellent post!

The only thing I would add is that the very fact that Obama did not or could not or would not see that Hillary would have been a game changing VP selection -- the only one available to him -- makes me think even less of the man than I already did. But hey, you've got to play with the cards you are dealt. And we really must win this thing -- not for OBama's sake, but for our sake.

[BlooInBloo]

144. We couldn't see it because our eyes were filled with such things as "inadequate black male"....

There was a *reason* we couldn't see the positives of Clinton during the campaign. All she would show us were her negatives.

[blue_onyx]

142. I thought Hillary was the best option but

Biden is good too. Obama picked Biden for a reason and I think Biden will show why tonight with his speech. We won't know if it was mistake until after the elections so let's think positively :)

[Radical Activist]

147. No. Just no.

People slammed me for this but when Obama selected Biden I had three random people tell me they were glad he didn't pick Hillary because he wouldn't have survived his first term. She did good at the convention but the wounds are deep.

[Honeycombe8]

148. Hard to say. It's easy to guess, when someone is actually the candidate, but a "promise" of one.

Remember how the Repubs loooooved the thought of Fred Thompson? But when he became an actual candidate, the love diminished quickly.

It's possible that Clinton being on the ticket would've brought out ALL the Repubs in droves and energized them. Don't know if that would've been enough to overcome the votes that Obama/Clinton would've gotten, though.

He had to pick someone he'd be comfortable working with on a daily basis. I can see why he couldn't pick Hillary...because a former Prez came with her as a package.

Biden is excellent. Whether everyone will think so, too...guess we'll see.

[Erin Elizabeth]

150. ...

[vaberella]

152. Much like a poster of the past who stated that Obama "better" have a woman in cabinet...

You promote the same idea that first our Candidate is not qualified to make the decisions he has and that his decisions are wrong. It shows a lack of faith in him as the proper choice moving forward. He made the best choice he could and further more HRC through her husband it seems underminds one of his clear messages from step 1 which was transparency in government. If she can't meet that one fundamental rule towards his plan of change then she would not be fundamental overall. She is an asset to an extent. She's getting a few of her voters to move to where they should be and that's a great thing that cannot be under appreciated but I do believe Obama made the right choice in the long run and what was good for his stance in the Presidency. I think this was looking beyond gender, beyond race, beyond religion and this is key.

Ultimately HRC brings nothing that Biden has not brought in spades and more besides.

[silverweb]

154. No he didn't.

Hillary will have her own special role to play, perhaps even more important than that of VP. Wait and see.

[democracy1st]

155. dayum what a sorry ass post

[Donald Ian Rankin]

157. Clinton would have gotten him more votes, but McCain still more, I suspect.

Obama/Clinton might well have won more votes than Obama/Biden, but it would have given Obama less of an advantage over McCain.

Republicans don't like Obama or Biden, but they *hate* Clinton with an unholy passion. Her husband was their worst nightmare - a succesful 2-term Democratic president - and if she was on the ticket then they'd come out to vote like hornets whose hive had been kicked.

Plus it would have given even more traction to attack-adds based on the primary. A judicious selection (and editing) of the things Clinton and Obama said about one another during the primary could have been a nightmare for an Obama/Clinton ticket.

If they do win the election, either Biden or Clinton would do/have done a perfectly good job as vice-president.

[Ichingcarpenter]

159. Please lock this ........ Biden is the VP... we need to move on

Its just flamebait now.

[gauguin57]

161. I like Hillary, but the BAGGAGE! Bill's business affairs. Please! We live in the real world!

She gives a great speech. I think she'd be a great leader. I truly do. I was initially a supporter of other candidates besides Barack and Hillary, but I have to say I cried last night at the loss of the chance for a strong, capable woman president.

BUT: The point is to GET DEMOCRATS ELECTED THIS FALL. For starters: Hillary's people ran a less-than-stellar campaign at certain points. Didn't look at the big picture.

Not to mention that: Bill has been acting generally weird (and politically tone-deaf all of a sudden) on the campaign trail. He has ALSO been hanging around with sleazeballs for the last few years, basically selling his imprimatur (to businesses) for the highest bid. He's been taking donations for his foundation from unknown and unsavory characters (many of whom he doesn't wanna even mention).

He's also traveling around with a bunch of younger guys who bring barely-legal young women along as their dates. It all just smells sour. He may not be the potential V.P. in question, but Bill's conduct would have a great effect on Hillary's candidacy, if Barack picked her.

Once the Repubs would start digging into Bill & Hill's affairs for dirt, they'd hit the motherlode. It'd be Ferraro/Zaccaro all over again!

Stinking-to-high-heaven business dealings would turn out to be worse than the mild smell of plagiarism following Biden (plus the conflict problem with his son, and the whole bankruptcy bill thing). Sorry, but we've gotta be clear-eyed and clear-headed about this.

[Snarkoleptic]

164. If my aunt had a unit, she'd be my uncle.

Live in the now.