So wait, are you kidding me with this keys business?

[smoogatz]

You can't rattle keys at Grampy McMansions because he was (wait for it...) a POW? WTfuckingF? Are you fucking KIDDING me? Or what, exactly? He'll start screaming "kill the gooks," grab a 9 mm from the nearest Secret Service guy and open fire on the crowd? This election is already the most bizarre in my recollection--and I'm roughly the same age as dirt. What will tomorrow bring? I'm all a-fucking-tingle.

[tekisui]

1. Hopefully this will cause some reporters to ask him

if he ever received treatment for his PTSD.

[cali]

2. repeat after me: the MSM is not your friend. The MSM is not your friend

The MSM is John McCain's friend.

[leftofcool]

PTSD affects Veterans in different way

The rattling of keys might trigger thoughts of torturers rattling keys at the prison door just before they come to string you up by your arms to beat you

[smoogatz]

5. So?

Now an entire presidential campaign is all about making sure McCain doesn't have a public meltdown? Fuck him.

[leftofcool]

7. No argument from me on this one but

the Dem veterans I know and love say this is a touchy subject for them and they hate to be attacked because of it or because of effects the disorder triggers. it is probably something best avoided. There are so many things to attack McCain on anyway.

[smoogatz]

8. So, this guy's got such a hair trigger

that the sound of rattling KEYS is going to set him off? And the answer to this is to make sure no one rattles any keys at him? No psychiatric help? No medication to help him deal with his rage issue, or whatever it is? No collective sigh of relief that the issue was exposed before the election, while we have plenty of time to, like, make sure McCain doesn't actually become president? What I'm nonplussed about is the "don't shake keys at John" response, which appears to have been glued together out of recycled cardboard and popsicle sticks by McCain's campaign team. What else sets him off? Rice for dinner? The sound of Vietnamese being spoken in another room? Asian people? Loud noises? Know what I mean?

[leftofcool]

10. May not necessarily "set him off"

Could be it just bothers him

[Midlodemocrat]

11. If the sound of keys jingling on his tv is enough to create this

much consternation; that we are obstenstibly trashing vets with PTSD, he's not fit to walk my dog, let alone sit in the Oval Office.

[leftofcool]

13. Do we even know this is true?

[Midlodemocrat]

15. We don't. But the way it is getting spun here is that

the guy will have a complete meltdown at the mere hint of jingling keys at the Convention. FFS, we don't even know if he's going to watch. :rofl:

[leftofcool]

17. I think this is more media hype than anything

I know several Vets with PTSD, hubby being one of them. I know only one who has ever melted down. Actually, if the truth was known, most of the Vietnam vets probably have PTSD and they don't know it.

[smoogatz]

27. My guess is that anyone who's ever been in combat probably suffers

from some long-term psychological effects, whether it's nightmares or irritability or whatever. Fine, and generally not a disqualifier for public office. Who doesn't have nightmares? PTSD might be a problem, though, if it affected one's decision-making ability. Given McCain's obvious other cognitive difficulties, the PTSD thing might be the psychological deal-breaker.

[smoogatz]

16. Too fucking bad.

What McCain's campaign is desperately trying to avoid is the creation of any kind of negative visual (or aural) image that becomes the central image that becomes a kind of symbol of McCain's wealth and elitism. I doubt his POW experience has anything to do with his irritation at the sound of jangling keys--and if it does, my point is that he's obviously too thin-skinned to be president, whatever the cause.

[leftofcool]

18. You could be right. I prefer to attack McCain on

the larger issues.

[smoogatz]

23. The keys are a symbol of the central economic issue of the race.

Which is that McCain's tax and economic policies are designed to benefit rich people like him, and everybody else can, you know, work two jobs or skip that vacation if they're having trouble making the mortgage payments.

[tigereye]

33. I'm waiting for the subtle Manchurian Candidate ads....

to go with the "Obama is the antiChrist" ads that the Reps are running. What a bizarre world we live in. :scared:

[Midlodemocrat]

9. No one is attacking vets with PTSD. McCain wants to sit

in the Oval Office, so his mental health is fair game. His temper is legendary. If he wins, will he ban all keys in the White House because it reminds him of something?

[leftofcool]

12. LOL I doubt it

I think this is just a sore subject for most Vets because for so long, the VA would not even recognize it as a problem. Now we have Vets from Iraq returning with it big time

[Midlodemocrat]

14. I understand that and would never want to criticize or trash

vets under any circumstances.

Frankly, I have only 'heard' that he has PTSD. I am way more concerned about his legendary temper. One of his own co-captors won't vote for him because of it. And, let's not forget what he called his wife...in public.

[leftofcool]

20. Of course not, and you are right

his temper is a problem, but I have never seen it manifest into rage

[smoogatz]

19. If you're going to use PTSD as an excuse

then you open yourself up to all kinds of new scrutiny about your fitness for office, IMO. McCain should release all medical records relating to any and all psychological treatment he's received since returning from Vietnam. How else will the voters be able to properly assess his ability to serve as president?

[leftofcool]

21. I think that was done except for possible

military debriefing and it is unlikely that those old records will be made available.

[Midlodemocrat]

22. From what I have read, he has not been diagnosed with

PTSD. :shrug:

Which doesn't mean he doesn't have it. Easy enough to get a doc not to put it in the records if you're going to run for office.

[smoogatz]

24. If he hasn't been diagnosed, how can he use it as an excuse?

That's kind of having it both ways, no? If he has been diagnosed, it should be made public so his supporters (and the rest of us) know what we're potentially getting into.

[Midlodemocrat]

25. Exactly!!!!

And, my point has been about this whole issue, do we really think the Republicans are going to bring it up that he has PTSD and the democrats set him off with jingling keys?

I've treated people with PTSD, although admittedly, none have been a POW, but I haven't ever seen one whose PTSD was triggered by something as everyday as that. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but because as a therapist, you want your patient to live a productive life, it seems to me, as a health care practitioner, that getting them past the point where jingling keys would trigger a PTSD episode is paramount.

JMHO, of course.

[tigereye]

32. hmm, where was all the outrage when the Reps were sporting those purple

band aids 4 years ago? That was much more of a low point, I think.


Why is it that we Dems are always having to explain ourselves.... it's very frustrating. :shrug:

[crimsonblue]

26. McCain wasn't tortured.

n/t. At least, according to current Government standards.

[rurallib]

3. no 'crosses in the dirt'?

[liberalmuse]

4. I keep hearing about this, but could you tell me the source?

Just curious. If it's from the MSM, fuck 'em. I'd like to see John McCain go ballistic before there is any possibility of him being elected.

[smoogatz]

6. Agreed.

I have no idea what the source is, but it's the lamest bullshit excuse I've ever heard--and I hear a lot in my job.

[TahitiNut]

28. Whether or not it causes a "melt down" (I doubt it) or not, it'll be seen as mean-spirited and ...

... dismissive and demeaning of his POW experience, because it's just plausible enough. NO MATTER WHAT THE "INTENT" it'll cast the protestors in a very bad light. Don't get me wrong - I'm one of the LAST people to hop on the "look down at the way people protest" bandwagons. I support Code Pink and don't give a flying fuck that 'some' think they could do better. I support ActUp! Fuck the people who think an unimpeded commute is more important than human rights.

The jingling keys thing is a petard upon which the 'good guys' will be hoisted.

[smoogatz]

29. I doubt it.

It'll be characterized that way by McCain's campaign staff and a few paid "experts," but what's making them nervous in fact is that the keys are a potent economic symbol--one they'd hate like hell to have catch on. The purple-heart band-aids were a direct attack on Kerry's military service, and no one in the media said shit about it being mean-spirited. The keys have nothing to do with McCain's service or POW-victim status. I think it's actually safe to keep rattling until McCain himself voices an objection. Then he can explain the extent to which he's psychologically compromised by PTSD to the voters.

[frylock]

30. evidently american politics is now like the special fucking olympics..

we wouldn't want to hurt any republican's feelings now.

[RagAss]

31. Agreed....

Read this and then tell me about how cruel this fucking key bullshit is....

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/national/stories/082408dnpolobamaad.69811d3.html