Swift Smear Three Launched...

[The Hair in my Nose]

http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_video3.html

I am so sick of this war stuff !!!!

[Fovea]

1. Today CNN reports 56% of Americans think

Bush* is responsible for the Swiftboat Liars.
Tommorrow, perhaps Karl can make it 65%.

[lancdem]

13. Whoa!

That's bad for Bunnypants.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

18. It's good to see that Rove is loosing!

:kick:

[phish420]

2. no doubt

I think what Kerry was saying is that he spent Christmas serving his country instead of opening christmas presents around a fireplace back home. These people are scums!

[The Hair in my Nose]

4. I don't think so...

“Mr. President,” said John Kerry, addressing his fellow senators in March 1986, “I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and having the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared -- seared -- in me. ...”

[NewYorkerfromMass]

8. apparently it was seared into O'Neil as well

since he told Nixon himself he was there.

[Frodo]

14. Well, not "seared" perhaps since he doesn't remember it 30 yrs later.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

19. Apparently he has become senile

since he was bumbled his way through a denial yesterday where he retracted his earlier statement to Nixon that he "was in Cambodia".

[Frodo]

20. He didn't really. But it plays well.

[bagnana]

24. he did say those words.

"I was in Cambodia." So you can't say he didn't say it. All you can do to defend him (as you continue to do) is to say that is not what he meant.

[Frodo]

27. Not so. I ask for that slack for Kerry, I have to give it as well.

Was he lying when he said he was "IN" Cambodia and now says he was "near" Cambodia? No.

Was he lying when he (as "reported" yesterday) he said on MLK day last year "I was in Vietnam when Dr. King was shot" even though he wasn't assigned there for several months? No! Because he WAS on the Gridley in the VICINITY of Vietnam if not actually IN Vietnam.

It's the same distinction. Neither was under oath when they said it and neither was likely trying to deceive. The point of Kerry's state met wasn't that he was necessarily in a specific place on a specific date, but to recollect how he felt when (months later) Nixon was saying nobody was there. O'Neil wasn't trying to say he had never been close, he was trying to pick nits at Kerry's statements by saying it was impossible for Kerry to actually be IN Cambodia the precise date and time he claimed to be. Neither is "lying" they're trying to make the slightest miss-wording appear to be intentional lies.

How can I apply the same double standard the swiftvets do? If I'm going to say Kerry wasn't lying on a far more obvious con tradition I can't claim O'Neil was when the very sentence that "proves" the lie has the waffling built right in to it.

[bobbyboucher]

10. He says "Christmas", not Christmas day, or Christmas eve or

the day after Christmas. He says "Christmas". What he meant by that could mean alot of things. When I refer to Christmas, I often call the whole holiday period "Christmas". Like, "What are you doing for Christmas?" That doesn't mean what are you going to be doing on December 25th. It means: what are you going to be doing over the Christmas holiday, which goes from before Christmas to after New Years for me.

Besides, my money says that they were in Cambodia and it's probably not to be talked about in specifics.

I bet they were there. More than once. This asshole will say anything. Why trust him?

[yardwork]

12. It's well known that American troops were in Cambodia illegally

during the war. What is the problem with Kerry's statement?

Where the hell was W during Christmas 1968?

[The Hair in my Nose]

15. Please read the post I replied to...

... thanks

[Frodo]

16. Except Nixon wasn't president by any definition of "Christmas"

[phish420]

22. hmm...

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-kerry-critic-swift-boats,0,6044860,print.story?coll

""I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border," O'Neill is heard telling Nixon in a conversation that was taped by the former president's secret recording system. The tape is stored at the National Archives in College Park, Md."

[girl gone mad]

23. They are the scum of the earth.

When Thurlow says they weren't being fired upon the day Kerry won his bronze star, he's not only smearing Kerry, he's smearing Lambert, a guy who saved his very life that same day.

It doesn't get much lower than trashing the reputation of a guy who saved your life because you want revenge.

I take that back. These guys are willing to trash our country and our children's future for their stupid revenge. Horrible people.

[joefree1]

3. Not me, bring it on ya AWOL chimp

Sink the Bush boat


Download the free poster/sign here:
http://ediablo.com/eDiabloGallery.html

[BootinUp]

5. Thats not even as convincing

as the other non-convincing smear attempts.

[skip fox]

6. You can help by sending links of such stories to:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x70032

A file (with hot links) covering the Swift Boat bull.

[yellowcanine]

7. Isn't this the Cambodia thing that was pretty much debunked today

with O'Neil being caught in the lie by the Nixon transcript of him saying he was in Cambodia? If he was there the other Swift boats were there also.

[skip fox]

17. nny you should ask. (This from the SBVT-GATE: The File):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=774345&mesg_id=779184

John O'Neill himself, having claimed recently never to have been in Cambodia,
but in 1971 claimed otherwise. In an 24 Aug. 04 report on Aaron Brown by
Joe Johns:

<snip>

JOHNS: . . . John O'Neill said Kerry made up a story about being in Cambodia
beyond the legal borders of the Vietnam War in 1968. O'Neill said no one could
cross the border by river and he claimed in an audio tape that his publicist played
to CNN that he, himself, had never been to Cambodia either. But in 1971, O'Neill
said precisely the opposite to then President Richard Nixon.

(starts tape)
O'NEILL: I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border on the water.
NIXON: In a swift boat?
O'NEILL: Yes, sir.
(end tape)

JOHNS: Now, O'Neill may have an explanation for this but he has not returned
CNN's calls. What does seem clear is that a top member of the swift boat group
is now being held to the same standard of literal accuracy they've tried to impose
on John Kerry –
. . .

BROWN: And just quickly on the O'Neill thing, just for my edification here,
Mr. O'Neill's publicist played for you a tape where Mr. O'Neill says what again?

JOHNS: Well, he says in the tape essentially that he did not go to Cambodia,
plain and simple. He says that a couple times in fact in this little short interview
that was played for me on the phone. Now, of course, as you listen to that
conversation with Richard Nixon, he says something completely different or,
at least, that's what it sounds like --

<snip>

By the 25th of Aug. on the Hannity and Colmes show, O'Neill had figured how
to seem to answer this:

<snip>

COLMES: You claimed at one point you weren't , and then you claimed
you were. This is very confusing to people.

O'NEILL: Well, it shouldn't be confused. I was never in Cambodia, and Kerry
lied when he said he was in Cambodia.

COLMES: You said to Richard Nixon you were in Cambodia.

. . .

HANNITY: On the border.

COLMES: There's a tape of you saying that to Richard Nixon.

O'NEILL: What's the next sentence? I was along the Cambodian border.
That's exactly right. What I told Nixon and was trying to tell him in this
meeting was I was along the Cambodian border.

<snip>

http://mediamatters.org/items/200408250004


But the problem with that is he'd earlier claimed that not only no one
went into Cambodia, that no one came within 30 miles of the border:

<snip>

O'Neill: . . .everyone familiar with the entire operation series knows
that the PCF, the Swift Boat areas, stopped just north of Sa-Dec, some
50 miles from the border. The areas further north were PBRs--smaller
boats--and that the border was heavily guarded to ensure that nobody
could go across it.

(Interviewer): There were navy gunboats anchored in the Mekong River
Channel, through which a Swift Boat would have to pass.

O' NEILL: Yes. It would have been apprehended 30 miles before. But
were placed there because in 1967 some drunken Army guys actually
went up that river and were interned in Cambodia. And so to avoid future
incidents, those gunboats were placed there. And we checked with the c
ommander of those gunboats, whose name is Tom Anderson. He's also in the book.

<snip>

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=4835

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x775416#775520

and

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&ncid=716&e=5&u=/ap/20040826/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_critic_swift_boats

[Ducks In A Row]

9. the one guy not present for any of the action that resulted in metals

not impressed.

btw, why is he the only guy on the boat the swiftvets will believe?

[Az_lefty]

11. StinkBoatVets for Bush*

the shrub is asking McCain how to stop the 527's while at the same time
this lying group launches another add. :grr:

[theBoo]

21. The truth will emerge

Well, I think eventually the truth will come out. Obviously, a lot of thought went into Kerry's decision to focus on his war record.

[Zookeeper]

25. Welcome to DU, theBoo! n/t

[The Hair in my Nose]

28. Boo... welcome to you.

I hope the appeal to his military record doesn't backfire as the swift gadflies get their underoos in a wad.

Would he have been wiser to emphasize his other strengths and accomplishments in order to minimize the grpl (grottesque repuke political lies)?

[theBoo]

30. Are you doubting the advisors' wisdom?

Like I said, the advisors for Kerry who invented this emphasis on his war record know what they are doing. This is playing out as they expected, I'm sure. I think you are unduly anxious. Do you think that they would have taken this route without knowing all the details of Kerry's record?

Thank you for the welcome.

[Zookeeper]

26. The SBVT ads remind me of some comedy bit...

that I'm too tired to remember at the moment. Maybe SNL or Mad TV?

The bit was a series of slanderous and ridiculous ads which featured candidates making increasingly absurd accusations about each other...

Much like this situation, except the lies and slander are all coming from BushCo.

[wishlist]

29. Even if Kerry never brought up Vietnam, the smear campaign would have

The whole thing is amazing, and Jon Stewart spoofed it neatly on the show with Kerry.

But I can't believe how even many Du'ers believe the lame argument that Kerry opened up this issue by making his military service a prominent part of the convention, so he invited questioning of his service and made himself a target of the smears.

I am absolutely sure that the Swiftliars book and ads would have rolled out to smear Kerry whether or not his campaign brought up his service. I am equally sure that there was a RW smear campaign waiting in the wings to discredit Wes Clark in case he had been picked for VP, which was one reason I did not think Kerry would pick Clark.

[Plaid Adder]

31. That's it? "He wasn't in Cambodia at Christmas"?!

OK, maybe I'm missing something here, but what exactly makes this devastating?

Oy,

The Plaid Adder

[LloydLib]

32. Clinton - it is not nam, it is the economy stupid, wake up

Who cares about a war 40 years ago. Not the people we need to get to win. Clinton could see things like that but not this group. They want to fight about nonsense 40 years ago and the voters want what your going to do for me now. They could careless about bush or kerry's war record. They were both jr officers and that experience means nothing. If we wanted to go this way, we should have picked Clark who had a miltary record.

Clinton beat a bush and he did not go this way. Gore ran into the same thing and the brought out how he used his rich daddy to leave the other guys there and get out like Kerry did.

You can fight this all day long and will not win.

The economy is a winner.

[David Zephyr]

33. John O'Neill's Watergate Boast to Nixon "I Was IN Cambodia"

sort of makes this Ad look like a "catagorical lie".

The Swiftboat Liars or as one DU'er called them: Nixon's Revenge.