So, we can't criticize McCain in any way because it will bring on post-traumatic stress?

[IndyOp]

Does anyone else see a big honking trap we are walking into here?

McCain has been framing all of the issues in his life and in the current election in terms of his POW status.

What is at stake right now - isn't just keys as a symbol of houses - it is whether we allow FOX to frame criticism of McCain on any and all issues as cruel, because McCain has associated any and all issues with his POW status and, therefore, any criticism of McCain will bring on PTSS symptoms.

If we criticize his role in the Keating Five it will remind him of being a POW and bring on PTSS symptoms...

If we criticize his having cheated on Carol and dumped her for Cindy it will remind him of being a POW and bring on PTSS symptoms...

If we criticize his wealth and loving life in the oligarch class that will bring on PTSS symptoms...

Don't let FOX define the meaning of our actions - shake the keys because they are symbols of his life among the oligarchs.

[Mz Pip]

1. If criticism by Dems

isn't good for McCain's PTSD then he has no business being president. He'll be up against far worse than a bunch of Democrats if he becomes president.

Give me a break.

Give McCain some Ambien, a snuggle blanket and put him back to bed.

[Orangepeel]

2. I guess there weren't enough threads on this

:eyes:

[Orrex]

5. Why do you hate redundancy?

Why do you hate redundancy?

[Orrex]

3. If his psyche is that fragile, then why the hell is he running for President?

It may sound that I am thereby mocking PTSD, but I most certainly am not. If he actually suffers from this cruel, debilitating, and entirely justified trauma, then he has no business campaigning for the most famously stressful job in the western world.

Alternatively, if he is serious about his campaign, then the possibility of PTSD must absolutely be discussed openly in terms of its potential impact upon a McCain Presidency, not to mention the dreaded 3AM call.

[redqueen]

4. Did he say that ANY kind of criticism is a PTSD trigger for him?

fucking stupidass strawman bullshit

[IndyOp]

8. Real PTSD triggers can be quite varied -

He, or his minions, can easily come up with other triggers including simply "feeling attacked" by the criticism.

At this point I'd be fine if people decided to make "cut out" paper houses and wave them instead of using jingling keys, but I hate that we are allowing someone else to define what our action mean.

[redqueen]

9. If there are other triggers mentioned in the book I'd avoid those too.

Dunno why you're now jumping to the 'he'll say something else is a trigger' bullshit.

Just bullshit arguments for this stunt... that's all there is.

[IndyOp]

10. No that's not all there is - my concern is allowing the Republicans to frame

the issues. We've been letting them do that for decades now and we have to push back.

How about this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6738996&mesg_id=6738996

[redqueen]

12. It's not the republicans' framing we have to worry about... it's the MEDIA's.

And yes... that's a MUCH better idea.

Why are so many people pushing so hard for the key thing, then, one SHOULD wonder... :think:

[IndyOp]

15. Glad you like the paper houses idea. Still, the media gets their framing from

Republican press releases -- and that is what we have to turn around.

And, by the way - I just read the thread below that suggests jangling keys at McCain Events as well as the DNC and as I read it I saw the point you were making. Maybe PastorDan at DailyKos did not know about the effect of jangling keys on McCain's PTSS symptoms, but then again maybe he did -- I do not like the tone of his post at all. I thought the key jangling idea was just for the DNC event -- but the suggestion of taking them to McCain events is wrong.

The "Jingle Your Keys" Project at McCain Events and at the DNC!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=6691513

[redqueen]

18. Wherever it comes from... we can't turn it around unless we own the media...

they get to pick what press releases to read from.

No amount of foot-stomping about how unfair it is will change it.

[IndyOp]

19. You can only stand up to a bully by standing up to them - that isn't foot-stomping

or whining about it being unfair it is standing up to them.

Peace out.

[Arkansas Granny]

16. Monopoly houses were suggested by a few posters earlier. I think that

would make the point in a more obvious way also avoid the impression that Democrats are ridiculing those with PTSD. The keys could backfire on us in a big way.

[TexasObserver]

6. Shhh! You'll wake the baby, and by "baby" I mean John McCain.

[redstate_democrat]

7. Exactly! GOD DAMN I don't know what's wrong with people.

At some point, we have to neutralize this argument McPOW is making. We have to shut it DOWN. If it were ALLLLL about the damn issues, then we would sail into the WH and Obama would be up by 20 points right now. IT IS NOT. We have to bring McPOW down to earth from his pedestal the MSM has put him on. He uses this POW card for everything and now we have DEMOCRATS even taking the bait and running the same damn meme. It is so disheartening. THE DAMN KEYS refer to MCCAIN'S HOUSES AND HIS OUT OF TOUCH views regarding the economy, trade, taxes, energy, and corporate power.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

11. voters are interested in the issues and McCain is not good on the economy

the multiple house thing and he couldn't remember the number suggests out of touch with the general public.

Hit McCain on the issues where it hurts!

[jonnyblitz]

13. wow, what an IRRATIONAL leap of logic.

and of course DU dumbasses will be crawling out of the woodwork agreeing with your idiocy. if I have to explain why you are so "off" with this rationalization of yours then there is no fucking hope. KEY RATTLERS ARE LOSERS AS PATHETIC AS FREEPERS. that is all.

[Egnever]

28. arent you tired of losing to people you feel superior to?

Grow a sack. Stand up get in mcsames face tell him what a loser he is and how unfit he is for the presidency or at the least get out of our way while we do the dirty work you feel you are too good to do.

[WeDidIt]

14. I think those who are so concerned should rush out right now and get fitted for one of these

[IndyOp]

20. I think your pink tutu reply is sexist. Please stop. Can't you think of a way

to call someone a coward without calling them "female" or "feminine"?

:(

[WeDidIt]

21. I completely udnerstand this thing about the keys now

A certain segment of DU has NO FUCKING SENSE OF HUMOR!

I fully understand.

[IndyOp]

22. I don't have a sense of humor about sexism... Sorry to disappoint. (n/t)

[WeDidIt]

23. You know, you have no friggin' clue

:eyes:

[noamnety]

24. Can you save your sexist shit for some other site?

I'm not interested in all-things-feminine being a metaphor for all-things-that-suck.

Find another way to make your point, please.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

17. We can't do it if it actually IS related to his POW experience.

Keating Five, his many houses, etc., have nothing to do with his POW status, and so his constant retort of "But I was a POW" looks like a silly response.

But jangling keys actually DO remind him of his POW experiences, and therefore it legitimizes his "I was a POW excuse" not only for this issue, but for many things retroactively where the excuse didn't work the first time.

Why the hell do people not understand this? :banghead:

[Egnever]

29. Because it shows his weakness on the pow issue

I takes his strength and makes it a liability.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

30. It doesn't work that way for our side.

The Republicans have perfected the outrageous direct-hit attack. The MSM will NOT treat us the same way if we do it.

[Egnever]

31. omg so dont talk about mcsames weakness cause the MSM wont help us

are you hearing yourself?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

32. Are you blind?

I didn't say don't attack his weaknesses. I said don't use this particular stunt to do it.

[dogtag]

25. Hush! We may not even

utter the name John McCain lest he become unhinged. We must shut our democratic traps for the duration. That is all. Over and out.

[Overseas]

26. It's the jangling noise that can trigger PTSD which is a tough affliction for our veterans.

PTSD is a tough affliction that many new veterans will also suffer from. To tease that is far too cruel. It reinforces the false "you don't support the troops" theming.

It is fine for us to point out his lousy voting record on veterans issues and all the other critiques.

Just using noises to trigger PTSD seems inordinately cruel. Although you could argue that if that prevents another warmonger from stealing the presidency again, it would be worth it. But it just adds more fodder to that whole false argument of the right wingers that Dems don't support the troops.

[Egnever]

27. Damn straight

There seems to be a huge contingent here afraid of any criticism whatsoever from these fools.

The same people that likely wanted Kerry last time cause he was the safe choice.

This party is fucked if we don't grow some balls at some point.


It makes me crazy . I watch dems on TV being asked if the house thing isnt aluding to him being forgetfull or to his age and the dems run away like they are scared to say yes.

YES ITS ABOUT HIM BEING MENTALY UNFIT FOR OFFICE!!!!

Why the hell are dems afraid to say that?

[CampDem]

33. Fox will define us how ever they want to.

Only Keith and Rachel can be counted on to point out that the keys are a reference to McCain's houses. Fox will zoom in on gleeful key shakers and marry this to democrats mocking McCain's PTSD triggers. The M$M will say PTSD survivors are heroic people who have to deal with triggers every day that remind them of their trauma.They will not analyze PTSD from an angle that suggests that McCain is unfit for office. Why would they? The GOP own them and are demanding biased coverage, which we are already seeing. The media will display faux outrage and dredge up whatever they can to support their version of this.They will loop this and exaggerate and distort the hell out of it. Yes, it is unfair and it pisses me off, but that is the way it is.