Kerry pissed a lot of military people off in

[notbush]

the 1970's.
With this "McCain" thing tonight, he's got to deal with it.
This will be "a thousand cuts" if it goes on 2 more weeks.
We felt inoculated, after McCain's early comments about the Swiftboatvets.
Today with McCain's "roommate" at the Hanoi Hilton speaking out,I'm guessing McCain feels he can't go against the man that nursed him in between beatings.
I didn't like the "I'm John Kerry reporting for duty" at the convention, and I'm afraid that whole tact will prove to be a mistake.

[Leilani]

1. McCain is STILL defending Kerry

even though his fellow POWs disagree.

[notbush]

5. You need to read the post

in late breaking news.

[Leilani]

10. I read it & I read all of it

both articles...

& Kerry is using McCain in the ad, & McCain has not asked him to drop it.

And he is still saying Bush should have condemned the ad.

[notbush]

18. and he is also implying

that Kerry took a risk pushing his vietnam record.
He's also taking the "all 527 adds are bad" tact.

[Leilani]

19. Because campaign finance reform is his baby

& he is disappointed.

He also said he understood why Kerry used his Vietnam record, because Repubs would label him a Mass liberal.

And that is true. Kerry wanted to insulate himself against the Dukakis image.

[NV1962]

2. If at all military and vets are pissed, it's at the SBV maggots

...for bringing an air of controversy, dishonesty and untrustworthiness to what was then (in Vietnam) and today is (in Iraq) nothing less than political misuse of their sacrifices - all in the name of 'Democracy.'

I believe you're reading it ass-backwards: a lot of them are turning in anger at Bush.

[sandnsea]

3. He spoke for alot too

And there's POW's who have come out and said they had never heard of John Kerry when they were held. Most people know the truth of Vietnam, this isn't going to hurt Kerry at all. He's done so much for them, SSD benefits, Agent Orange, PTSD, opening Vietnam to get POW/MIA remains. I think they're all ungrateful asshats, that's what I think.

[JohnKleeb]

34. I think one of his legacys will be that he was the president for the vets

His legacy I believe will be that he was the first president to make Veterans rights a real priority. This is one of the reasons why I've always liked and respected him, veterans are everywhere, some of us are vets, they are our fathers, brothers, mothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces, friends, etc. I think Kerry is very wise to emphaise his military history.

[incapsulated]

Sure, let's run scared

Run, run, run from any potential rethug attack!

Lemme tell you a secret: No matter WHAT Kerry decided to run on; his "liberal record", his military record, his fucking Dylan records, they were going to attack him on it!

We will never win running scared. It's time to grow a fucking spine or chuck this Party altogether.

[fearnobush]

6. Exactly. Do you think for one second that Bush Rove were just gonna

sit by and passively watch Kerry's poll numbers increase as they drew closer to there own fucking convention? Hell no. This was Rove plan all along.

[girl gone mad]

11. I don't think notbush..

is saying Kerry should run away from it. I think he is saying Kerry needs to go on the offensive here.

That's how I feel, anyhow. Kerry needs to get out in front of it, define his war protest before they get the chance to.

I also think we need to go on the offensive and start calling Bush's service record into question in a big way. Kerry can't do it, but our talking heads can.

If Kerry doesn't step up and give clear, decisive statements on his anti-war history, we are going to be stuck in the position of defending him from every lie and exaggeration for the next 3 weeks. They'll retain control of the agenda.

[JI7]

15. check the person's post history

and you will see where they are coming from. and it's not on the side of Kerry.

[incapsulated]

16. "I'm afraid that whole tact will prove to be a mistake"

Like there was some other "tact" that would have been bulletproof? That Rove and company would not have attacked in the lowest, dirtiest imaginable way?

If it wasn't this, it would be something else, interns, smears, lies of other kinds. I agree he has to defend himself, my point was this "oh, all these people seem so angry.. maybe it was a mistake.." is nothing but delusion. If he hadn't brought up his military record AT ALL do you think we wouldn't be seeing the SBL's anyway? I mean, why not, it could still do damage. Rove was going to throw everything and the kitchen sink at Kerry no matter what he did.

[girl gone mad]

24. Hmm..

well, I agree that Kerry was right to highlight his service at the convention.

Every time someone in the media says that Kerry brought the attacks on by emphasizing his Vietnam service, we need to remind them that the smearvets campaign was launched back in April or May, and the book was alrready written before Kerry took the podium.

[notbush]

21. I think Kerry needs to confront the swiftbaoat allegation head on

Have a news conference and answer all question. Put this thing to rest......
I have apparently pissed off the warden tonight p17???, j11, whoever.
I was not a Kerry supporter in the primaries...but he's all we got.
Sorry, that's how I feel.

[TryingToWarnYou]

31. Fucken A... well said.

!!!!!!

[fearnobush]

4. What about the POW who said he never heard any mention of

Kerry adn that to suggest the beatings increased because of Kerry's speech was not so.

[notbush]

7. wanna edit that

I'm not shure what you're saying.

[Webster Green]

8. Kerry and the Vietnam Veterans against the War were right on!

As in Iraq, we were right and they were wrong. Period. End of story.

Some vets still support the Vietnam War. Thats just fucking ignorant! The war was illegal and immoral, and justified with lies, and there were plenty of atrocities committed. Kerry is to be commended for speaking out.

[madrchsod]

9. from what i have read the

military is pretty split on the bush-kerry issue. other than bob-my dick doesn`t get hard anymore-dole, most vets at least respect kerry because of his record. only a small number of vets still cling to the idea that the viet nam war was a noble undertaking..as kerry said -there are other issues that bush doesn`t want to talk about.

[JI7]

12. most of your posts defend and take sides with the right wingers

[still_one]

13. Tell the survivors at My Lai we were fighting for them in Nam

[JI7]

14. you never liked John Kerry

[notbush]

17. Your right...I've said

I was a Deanie....Your point??????
I still want our candidate to win!
So if I think he's doing something wrong, I should shutup and say nothing????
I think Kerry put TOO much emphasis on his Vietnam service and it will not bode well for him.

[happynewyear]

20. well get over it, DEAN is OUT

and you need to get behind Kerry.

He is a respectable man and he will be a fine president.

I suppose you prefer *?

:grr:

[oasis]

22. Veterans won't decide this election. Youth will. Especially those youths

who don't want to become veterans, via the draft.

[Leilani]

27. If they show up to vote...

They are the ones who have the most to lose.

But young voters are not known for high turnout.

[nomatrix]

23. He also had the courage to save a lot of lives

You know what their favorite saying was after the 2000 election mess?
"Get over it!"
If you are talking to one personally, you could ask how many more were suppose to die for a lie? My Lai didn't happen? Colin Powell who tried to hide it. Or use today's terms. "Do you think all the soldiers in Iraq are represented by the mess at Abu Ghraib? Do you think anyone in their right mind does?"

If you are really ready to go after it...
"3 Million had served during Vietnam, and you seem to be the only ones complaining. The damage you are doing today is far more consequence that of the "winter soldiers". Their cause was was honorable. Today, you should know that Nixon had no use for our soldiers or the people of Vietnam from his tapes. How could you possibly defend that?"

[nomatrix]

26. Here's some more info on the Nixon tapes

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2002/03/01/story24043.asp

HENRY KISSINGER shot down a suggestion by President Richard Nixon that the US could use a nuclear bomb on Vietnam in 1972.A few weeks before ordering an escalation of the war there, Nixon matter-of-factly raised the idea of using a nuclear bomb with national security adviser, Kissinger. The notion was quickly vetoed.

Nixon's abrupt suggestion, buried in 500 hours of tapes released yesterday at the National Archives, came after Kissinger laid out a variety of options for stepping up the war, such as attacking power plants and docks, in an April 1972, conversation in the executive office building.

''I'd rather use the nuclear bomb,'' Nixon responded.

''That, I think, would just be too much,'' Kissinger replied.

''The nuclear bomb. Does that bother you?'' Nixon asked. ''I just want you to think big.''

The following month, Nixon ordered the biggest escalation of the war since 1968.

In a 1985 interview, Nixon acknowledged that he had considered ''the nuclear option''. He told Time magazine then: ''I rejected the bombing of the dykes, which would have drowned one million people, for the same reason that I rejected the nuclear option.

Nixon showed less regard for the North Vietnamese in his 1972 taped conversations.

In a conversation from June, he told domestic adviser Charles Colson, ''We want to decimate that goddamned place''.

He added: ''North Vietnam is going to get reordered. It's about time, it's what should have been done long ago.''

[Bongo Prophet]

28. Yes, NIXON was a sociopath, with evil still fruiting...

Yes, and blowing up dams to flood viet civilians...
Domestically, he also spoke of bombing Capitol Hill and told Colson to look into firebombing Brookings Institution. No sh*t.

His plan of using O'Neill to LOUDLY proclaim that VVAW was accusing ALL vets of atrocities was a key trigger in turning what was actually a focused protest into the blanket freakout of vets, effectively turning their anger from the REAL treasonous monsters, the Nixon cabal, toward the protesters.

Evil is almost always clever.
Clever cloven-hooved monsters they are.
Colson/segretti > Atwater > Bush/Rove. the Legacy continues.

[Andromeda]

25. Kerry has already received a thousand cuts...

and he's still standing. To survive a nasty political campaign you have to have a strong stomach and a stiff spine.

Kerry has proven that he has the courage of his convictions and if anybody can survive the slings and arrows of politics, it's Kerry.

He gives as good as he gets and he will come out the winner in this contest.

[LynnTheDem]

29. Ummmm...

Actually Kerry was VERY POPULAR in the 1970s. Which is exactly why Nixon sicced COlson onto O'Neill to sicc him onto Kerry.

[ArkDem]

33. Especially with the veterans!

[soothsayer]

30. When Kerry gets elected, it will go a long way towards healing the US'

Vietnam war wounds, imho.

[TNMOM]

32. I disagree.

Kerry was very wise to challenge Chimpy on the subject of national security. Even those who drink the cool-aid reluctantly admit that Iraq is totally FUBAR, and we are no more secure now than we were before 9-11. Kerry is a leader. Chimpy, well, he's a loser.

The "reporting for duty" line communicated several important messages, including the fact that Kerry is a fighter (this campaign is not rolling over) and that he's an experienced leader in combat. I thought it was brilliant.

Should we allow the threat of smears to force us to hide Kerry's biggest strengths? I think that would be a cowardly and a chimp-like move.

[displacedtexan]

35. "Reporting for duty" also communicated that...

Kerry showed up and was where he was supposed to be at all times during his years of service, especially during his TWO TOURS IN VIETNAM.

Sorry.
Had to vent.

[JohnKleeb]

37. no its fine

and this in a way is his duty, he is seeking to undo the wrongs that the adminstration has done, and he is getting sweet revenge on what the bastards did to his friend and as they call each other brother Max Cleland. I felt reporting for duty was a good thing not bad, some found it militaristic, as Ive said above, we all have some connection to it.

[Ducks In A Row]

36. Kerry was speaking "for" alot of vets who needed to get the word out

Kerry helped end that war faster and saved alot vets asses.

There are more vets who support Kerry than Bush, but the media is too chicken-shit to report it.

[kentuck]

38. And he made a lot of veterans proud also....

The Neanderthals that were clinging to some bullshit fantasy about "winning the war" and honorable exits were killing more and more people every day. Some people and some veterans were wise enough to see what they were doing and did not buy into Nixons bullshit like O'Neill and many of the Jane Fonda haters did....