Biden is not some RW sell-out

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

He has cast some very bad votes--that have harmed me personally BTW--in response to his state constituency. (Many big financial institutions are based in Delaware because of its friendly incorporation laws) Obama has always supported ethanol because of his constituency; the entire lower two thirds of Illinois is corn.

Neither man has pocketed money for having those policies. They represent their states and were ambitious enough to want to keep representing them.

That's politics. It happens.

Yes, Biden voted for the IWR, but did as much or more than Kerry did to limit the resolution and was certainly to the left of Clinton, Edwards and Bayh on the issue. (Biden-Lugar was a good amendment. Not as good as a No vote on the IWR, but better than many other folks did.)

Who's left and right isn't simple. He's to the left of Obama on Iran, for instance. (Biden doesn't support designating the IRG a terror organization as far as I know, so he's in the Webb camp on that.)

The guy has a 100% lifetime NAACP rating. Not everyone does. People didn't like his handling of the Clarence Thomas hearing, but Joe was the one man most responsible for keeping Robert Bork off the SCOTUS.

Is Biden to the left or right of Obama? Depends on the issue.

There's good and bad in every Democratic politician out there.

[Maven]

1. Biden was my #2 choice in the primaries after Kucinich dropped out and I switched to Clinton.

So I'm certainly not unhappy with him in the White House - I think he's awesome.

My concern with him had more to do with image and consistency. I'm just not sure he and Obama look right together, especially with someone considerably older/more experienced as second-in-command. And I don't think having Biden on the ticket says "change" or "new politics."

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

4. Obama has change covered. If Biden helps with a few "change, but not too much chage" votes, cool.

[KAZ]

7. Very good points regarding the "look right together".

It's a double edged sword. I'm thinking that grabbing the older edge gives us a fine, sharply honed blade up front, to cut those MFing Puke's heads off. Sorry, can't help myself.

I think, just by personality alone, Obama may be able to pull this off, if it is in fact Biden.

[KAZ]

2. Wow! I agree with a Kurt-n... post. K&R.

Just for the novelty. :)

[highplainsdem]

3. I agree, and I like Biden, a lot. I much prefer him to Obama. But I can't look at those polls

and believe that Biden can unite the party. The polls are indicating that only an Obama/Clinton ticket can.

And if there WEREN'T polls showing this, I wouldn't keep posting about it.

I wouldn't be sitting here arguing that our best chance of beating McCain would be with Clinton as the VP if the polls didn't show that.

I just feel sometimes that I'm the only person here who reads the polls, or understands them...or is willing to accept that what they're saying shows we're in trouble without a unity ticket.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

6. Spilt milk.

I think Hillary as VP would have locked the election, but it was just not going to happen.

Of the remaining choices, Biden helps as much as a good VP can help.

[highplainsdem]

8. I agree he's the best of the non-Clinton choices, by far.

I still think not choosing Clinton shows very poor judgment on Obama's part, after a very bad FISA vote. What's next?

Anyway, I'll be watching the polls. Maybe I'm wrong about this and the Dems who aren't behind Obama yet, mostly Clinton supporters, will suddenly decide to back Obama. But I'd be surprised. The polls so far have been showing about what I expected.

[KAZ]

10. You don't like Wes, just a little bit?

I thought he would be a great unity choice.

[highplainsdem]

16. I like him, but I don't think he has Biden's political skills and expertise. And there is NO unity

choice other than Clinton. She's the candidate who won those 18 million votes. You don't win over her supporters by adding one of her supporters to the ticket -- there was no way that was ever going to work, whether the supporter was Clark or Bayh.

It's going to be interesting to see how much less Democratic support Obama will be getting in future polls.

Clinton supporters, the ones not already sold on Obama, are going to be furious.

I heard tonight -- not sure if it's true -- that it wasn't Obama himself, just someone working for him, who contacted Clinton to tell her she wouldn't be VP.

If so, he treated his strongest primary rival and the Democratic politician whose help he most desperately needs very shabbily.

The smartest thing he could have done would have been to announce a unity ticket immediately, as soon as she suspended her campaign and endorsed him.

Second smartest would have been to let her know he wanted a unity ticket back in June, but also explain it would help to direct media attention to other Democratic politicians as possible VP picks.

If in fact he never wanted her on the ticket, but he didn't make that absolutely clear to her, and then had an underling call her, then he's been anything but "gracious" to her. His treatment of her has been contemptible, especially considering how she's thrown her support to him and asker her supporters and fundraisers to help him.

IF this is what's been going on, the Clintons have every reason to be unhappy with him. And he has no reason to expect their support.

Please note that I said IF. I don't know for certain what happened. I'm just going by news reports, leaks. But the news that's been coming out will NOT help Obama's image with Clinton's supporters, especially those who aren't already solidly behind him.

[KAZ]

19. Just a short reply. And I appreciate all that you have posted.

But you're whacked.

I always thought that your were a highpliansDEM, but now I'm not sure.

I've supported the Clintons for years, but it's time to move on. We have no other choice.

[highplainsdem]

20. I've been a Democrat for 40 years. I also know how to read polls.

This is not about refighting the primaries. This is about winning the GE, and a unity ticket would have served us best.

Unless you think there's some bizarre conspiracy among the media and pollsters, and anyone believing that would be whacked.

So I'm not very happy about this ticket, compared to a unity ticket. I'll still support it, just as I spent a lot of hours working in the state Democratic offices in the Humphrey campaign after being shattered by Bobby Kennedy's assassination just weeks after I had a chance to hear him speak and shake his hand.

But most Democrats aren't that willing to vote for party tickets they aren't very happy with.

It's hard to get that across to DUers, especially here in GDP, when so many Clinton supporters were driven out. I don't know how to make people here understand just how much the majority of the party wanted Clinton on the ticket. The polls should show people that, but so many here prefer not to pay any attention to the polls.

And Obama chose to ignore them, too.

We'll see what happens in November. But right now I'm dealing with a lot of people close to me who usually vote Democratic who really don't like Obama. They're not racists, as so many here like to say about anyone not in love with Obama. They just don't think he has enough experience. They preferred Clinton, and it would have helped reassure them to have Clinton on the ticket.

I don't think they're going to be happy that he chose Biden. And when even the liberal Wiccan in the family is so unhappy with the Democratic nominee she's thinking of voting third party, I tend to think we're in trouble...

[cliffordu]

23. It always amazes me that the people who push the Hillary/unity meme forget

a couple of things -

Just how negative she got towards Obama-- beyond hostile into hateful, and;

Just how high Clinton negatives are in the US. I'm not saying the negatives are deserved, just that they exist.

I don't think the Unity theme is supported by the realities.

[cliffordu]

21. yep.

[Thrill]

5. Biden will fight these assholes when they attack Obama. And thats what we need

[KAZ]

9. I'd sure like him in my corner.

[wisteria]

14. Yeah, and he will say something over the top and ruin it for us all. n/t

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

26. Doubtful. He can watch himself for 70 days

[blonndee]

11. Good post. And this is going to be GOOD.

I'm very happy with this pick. I think it's going to work very well.

[tridim]

12. He's a real Democrat that cares about his job and his country.

As close to perfect as I could ask for.

[wisteria]

13. Biden has sold out the middle class and the poor by voting for the

bankruptcy bill and he has sold out our Constitution and women buy helping to appoint Alito to the bench. Biden is an old hack self promoting politician. He will undercut Obama to make himself appear more important any chance he gets.

[onicodnem]

29. Proof the "change" is a fraud

Some "change." The Senator from MBNA as Veep.

[Steely_Dan]

15. Nice Post Kurt

I would have loved to see Biden for Pres....But I'll take VP

[monomach]

17. k & r

[OmahaBlueDog]

18. Biden is almost devoid of negatives

In the end, I think that's what Obama needs.

Hillary had huge downside to go with her tremendous upside. Beyond that, as you said, who's left & right gets complicated.

How do you think this influences McSame's pick?

[Jim Sagle]

22. No, he's not a RIGHT-WING sellout, he's a CENTER-RIGHT sellout. No problemo.

;)

[wisteria]

24. Biden, is a mediocre, self promoting pandering ,I will do anything if it will promote me, kind a guy...

He will sell out anyone or anything if it will benefit him.

[depakid]

25. Yeah, he is

economically.

[JVS]

27. K&R

[onicodnem]

28. Whitewash

Biden did not "represent his state" by catering to big money when he supported the BARF (Bankruptcy "reform").

There are far more working Delawarans than there are banks. He chose the banks.

[notadmblnd]

30. I see biden as mostly a mentor role

he has the experience in the areas that the republicans say Obama doesn't. It will silence those that argue that talking point.