I'm glad both Hillary and Bill Clinton are going to speak at the convention.

[last1standing]

I had my problems with the way Hillary's camp ran her campaign and I always felt Bill was far too conservative for my tastes as president, so please don't call me a PUMA or any of that crap.

What some of our more ardent "Obama supporters" here at DU need to remember is that Hillary did win a sizable minority of Democratic voters in the primaries and her message is one that many want to hear. To exclude her or push her to a non-primetime spot would be an insult to every person who voted for her and to women in general. For good or ill, Hillary speaks for millions of people who should be heard.

And Bill, for all his "triangulation" ways, was an extremely effective, two full term, Democratic president - the only one since Franklin Roosevelt. To keep him off the stage would be an insult to the party itself. The vast majority of Americans wake up every day thinking how good life was under the Clinton presidency. To run away from the Clinton legacy is to run toward defeat.

It really is time for all the Hillary Haters and Obama Bashers to realize that the only real enemy is the one with an "R" after his name - John McCain. It's only by working together that we have a chance to stop him and the bush* policies he would continue for another four years.

In other words, the primaries are over. It's either Democrat or republican, now.

Make your choice.

[MannyGoldstein]

1. It Would Be Nice If Bill Endorsed Our Nominee

Seems like a reasonable requirement to speak at the convention.

[wyldwolf]

4. he has. He just didn't use the words you prefer. We've covered this before

[MannyGoldstein]

8. Not

He's been careful to do anything but endorse him.

[wyldwolf]

9. Yes he did. He just didn't use the words you wanted him to use.

[MannyGoldstein]

13. And Which Words Of Endorsement Did He Use? n/t

[wyldwolf]

14. It's bizarre how you find yourself in this exact conversation week after week

People show you links. You deny the links say what they say, then you disappear only to reappear for the exact same conversation again.

"Mr Clinton's spokesman said he was committed to working for an Obama win... President Clinton is obviously committed to doing whatever he can and is asked to do to ensure Senator Obama is the next president of the United States," said spokesman Matt McKenna.

The Obama campaign welcomed Mr Clinton's declaration of support, saying: "A unified Democratic Party is going to be a powerful force for change this year and we're confident President Clinton will play a big role in that."

[MannyGoldstein]

15. SOS

That's a distinct "he sucks less than the other guy" - it ain't a "he'll be a great President".

It's disgraceful. You might call it an endorsement, but most agree that it's not.

[wyldwolf]

18. yeah, from you. You're not happy with how the endorsement was made so you deny it was made

McKenna is a spokesman for Bill Clinton and said "President Clinton is obviously committed to doing whatever he can and is asked to do to ensure Senator Obama is the next president of the United States," just as Obama spokesman Bill Burton said, "A unified Democratic Party is going to be a powerful force for change this year and we're confident President Clinton will play a big role in that."

That's an endorsement and an aknowledgement of an endorsement.

[dionysus]

34. that's what it boils down to really

:thumbsup:

[peacebird]

2. HRC "won" a large group of Repubs who support Rush Limpballs Operation Chaos

And those "supporters" are against Obama.

:eyes:

[wyldwolf]

5. horse shit.

[last1standing]

6. So all these people I talk to who voted for Hillary are really repubs?

Damn! I thought I knew my wife better than that.

The only reason more Obama supporters haven't been banned from this site is because he won the primaries. If the tables had been turned, I wonder if many could have handled it? :shrug:

[Beacool]

40. Yeah, the Republicans must be scratching their heads

as to why millions of their "supporters" are registered Democrats.

:crazy:

[wyldwolf]

47. I think 2004 might provide a clue

In 2004 scores of Howard Dean supporters were either banned or left in a huff. Most went to several new forums dedicated to Howard Dean.

I always found the same mindset in the more vocal Obama supporters that I found in the hardcore Deaniacs.

[book_worm]

I don't think anybody has a problem with her addressing the convention.

[last1standing]

7. Sadly, some do.

In fact, this thread was inspired by posts from another thread that said exactly that.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

44. I don't have a damn as long as at the end of her speech, she and her husband

stand behind the presumptive Democratic nominee 100%. NO EQUIVOCATIONS! NO WORD-PARSING!!! NO SMART-ASS COMMENTS THAT CAN BE MISCONSTRUED!!!

[wyldwolf]

3. what I find sad is...

... that you're worried you'll be tagged a "Puma" for speaking glowingly about Bill and Hillary Clinton. That's what DU seems to have become. McCarthyism.

[emilyg]

17. Tell me about it.

The ones that called me a Puma sit on their ass while I'm out there canvassing.

[Tim4319]

10. In no means am I attacking you, so please don't take this personal!

I am seeing a lot of threads and hearing a lot of reports about how Hillary is being disrespected. How she is being pushed aside. What I find unfair is her actions after loosing the nomination. Some of things she has said that turned a lot of people off. I believe Hillary is doing as much damage to herself as anything anyone here is doing. She has not opened herself up to the idea of support our nominee. Yet, people still want her get her full respect. In order to get respect, one must give respect, and Hillary has not done that.

But, I always wonder, if the shoe was on the other foot, would Hillary be as accommodating to Barack? I personally do not believe Barack would behave the same way. I would think that Barack would be out campaigning for Hillary, just as hard as Hillary would be campaigning for herself.

[last1standing]

12. Obama and the DNC are showing the Clintons respect.

It's the more vocal members of the DU community I'm talking about who keep screaming that both of them should be drummed from the party and deported.

As for the shoe being on the other foot, I'm sure Hillary would have been just as cordial to Obama because, like him, she wants those voters. This is politics and they both understand the need to help the other right now.

[Tim4319]

16. From my point of view

Hillary has not been helping Barack as much as she should. Because, if it were me and I'm noticing that poll after poll is stating that a critical portion of my supporters are leaning toward vote for McCain or not voting at all versus voting for the Democratic Nominee, I would make it a point to show some loyalty, and say to those supporters sitting on the fence, please get behind our party's nominee. That is something I am not hear from Hillary. Instead, I am hearing how hear supporters still need to be heard from, the very same statements she made during the primaries.

[last1standing]

19. No offense, but I think you need to listen more carefully.

Hillary has come out several times and told her supporters to vote for Obama. She has campaigned for him repeatedly. Even the talking head shows ask PUMA leaders why they're going on when Hillary has asked them to get behind the nominee.

I didn't like Hillary's actions during the primaries, but I can't fault her much for them since. She's been out there supporting Obama more than other candidates like Edwards (my choice in the primaries), Kucinich, or Dodd. No one holds them to the same standard, however.

I know feelings were hurt in this campaign season, but as adults we have to put slights behind us and move forward. Four more years of repub looting is more than this country can take.

[Tim4319]

21. Maybe you are right,

I will have to do more research, but I have not heard Hillary give a resounding backing to Barack. Like I said, I will have to do some more checking.

[last1standing]

23. It's hard to know what's real with all this partisan screeching in our ears.

I'm not very happy with the hyper-partisans of either camp but I do know that a divided party only leads to defeat - the #1 goal of the PUMAs and repubs.

Thanks for being open minded and looking into it all. If you want some links, I'll be happy to oblige.

:toast:

[Tim4319]

25. Sure, I would be more than happy to read some links

At your earliest convenience I would appreciate it if you would send a few links. Thank you in advance.

[last1standing]

28. Here are a few resources to start with.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/08/hillary_clinton_tackles_florid.html

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0808/Clinton_Creates_Whip_Team_to_Quell_AntiObama_Protests.html

http://blog.hillaryclinton.com/blog/main/2008/06/29/164949

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/07/clinton.unity/index.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr1YdxkEkvU

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2045957920080620

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/09/AR2008080900347.html

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/26/1169925.aspx

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Columnists/Shobhaa_De/Politically_Incorrect/I_am_honoured_by_Clintons_support_Obama/articleshow/3110617.cms

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/05/clinton-avoids-vp-talk-pu_n_105547.html

If that doesn't do the trick, there are plenty more articles out there for those who really want to know.

Unfortunately, DU is not immune to the need for drama and suspense. Too many are just biting at the chance to find evil in anyone who doesn't agree with them 100% of the time. The truth is every Democratic candidate, outside Gravel, is behind Obama now and this inter-party fighting is just the residue of those hyper-partisans who can't stop hating "the enemy" even when that enemy is working for their candidate. These people need to feel the rush they get from their anger and hatred. They'd much rather hate Hillary than help Obama.

Anyway, enjoy the read and I hope it helps.

[Nikki Stone1]

20. But Hillary HAS told her supporters to back Obama

Many times.

I think the renegade Hillary supporters are acting in a way opposed to her actual wishes.

[Tim4319]

22. Outside of a couple of times she was on the stump with Barack,

I have not seen or heard her say anything on her own. As I stated in an early thread, I will do some more research and look into what Hillary is saying. But, up to this point I have not seen much.

[Nikki Stone1]

48. A friend of mine got an email from her telling her to support Obama

I'll see if I can get her to send it to me.

[Independent_Voice]

11. As someone who would never give my vote to Sen. Clinton....

...I have no problem with her or former President Clinton speaking at the Convention. For that matter, it would also be fitting to have former President Carter and Chairman Dean receive speaking slots.

Also, pretty much all of the Dems who ran against Obama in the primaries will be given speaking slots (except for Edwards or Gravel)...so having the Clintons speak completely makes sense. I say this as someone who doesn't trust either of them (not to mention the sleazy people who advise them), as politicians, as far as I can throw them.

[TheKentuckian]

26. Senator Clinton is held to higher standard

because she stirred up more mischief.

She not only through the sink at Obama but leveraged the party in an attempt to all but force SD's to go for her.


She has to get her outliers with the program. That's her responsibility because we're all on the same team.

[Independent_Voice]

33. But she still garnered almost as many primary votes as Obama....

...as much as it disgusts me, the way she went about doing it.

She has as much right as Dodd, Richardson, and Biden to receive a prime speaking slot at the Convention.

[Beregond2]

24. Of course they should speak.

Anything less would look like we are hiding them away in shame. And I have no doubt they will suck it up and say what they should.

[Cha]

27. Yeah, and the way she won them

was so classy, too.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[last1standing]

30. Wow! Just Wow!

So much hatred is so little space.

Not to mention wrong headed ignorance.

Sad.

[Whisp]

31. the nominee has been selected. it's Obama.

not Bill and his wife.

[last1standing]

32. It must be wonderful to live in a vacuum.

There's no interference or need for anyone or anything. No obligation to work with others or to accept help.

Nope. In a vacuum you can scream and swear about anyone or anything all you like and it makes no difference.

It also doesn't get you the presidency. I'm glad Obama knows better.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[last1standing]

39. Yes, we will see because Obama is making the right moves.

Fortunately, we will never see your everyone-as-enemy mentality at play since Obama is smart enough to utilize the resources at his disposal.

So you can stick that in your pipe and I sincerely hope you enjoy it.

:hi:

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[last1standing]

42. Please describe how two elected officials make up a dynasty.

There are several members of the Kennedy family serving in office. Are they to be hated?

Franklin was related to Theodore Roosevelt. Perhaps it would have been better to see Hoover re-elected in your book. That Great Depression was overblown, anyway, right?

So here are two members of the Clinton family who are, or were, in politics and now we have to call out the infantry to stop their diabolical usurpation of power in this country.

Is that about right or is there some vague connection to the Illuminati you'd like to tell us all about?

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[last1standing]

45. Not much info on how the Clintons are a dynasty there.

Would you care to keep to the subject or have you talked yourself into a corner with this one?

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WA98070]

35. Blind ambition is something to be feared. DLC or nothing.

[last1standing]

36. How many politicians do you know who aren't ambitious?

The Clintons are ambitious but then so are Obama and Dean. Even Kucinich is ambitious, it's a requirement for the grueling hours and the immense sums of cash needed to run for the presidency.

Really, what sane person would spend nearly a billion dollars to land a job making $400,000/year if power and ambition weren't the overriding motivations?