OK, I'll say it. Obama's Ad Agency SUCKS.

[NoodleyAppendage]

The latest attack ads on McCain are the WORST that I have seen in decades. Who's idea was it to run a sorrowful Chopin-like piano tune and have a light voiced person do voice over for the McCain "House" ad? FIRE THAT INCOMPETENT BOOB NOW.

First off, if you are going to make an attack, you don't hide it in an ad that would put a naroleptic to sleep. Attack ads need to be spitfire and ominous, not "I just buried my pet" sorrowful.

Second, if you are going to use McCain's words against him, why not use his ACTUAL voice instead of the ineffectual voiceover and subtext. Nothing nails home a point like hearing it directly from the attackee.

---------------

If Obama Ad people just happen to read this (doubtful), then here's your ticket. DAISY AD on McCain. Video clips of McCain's violent behavior; clips of McCain endorsing a draft; clips of current international problems; re-run short McCain "unhinged behavior" clip and follow with a mushroom cloud. Nuff' said. Check and mate.

J

[berni_mccoy]

1. Where is the Thumbs Down control for threads?

That's what I think of this post.

[WeDidIt]

3. I hear ya!

[NoodleyAppendage]

4. Anything substantive to say...or do you just want to whine. n/t

J

[berni_mccoy]

10. LOL. Sorry Noodley, I just don't agree on this. I like *you* though.

:toast: :hi: :hug: :pals: :hide:

[NYC Liberal]

26. Funny, I was just going to say the same thing to you nt

[democracy1st]

88. well i agree with you, the radio is on all day in my office and when people hear

the Obama ads they don't even notice whats being said,but when a McCain ad rolls and they hear Barack Obama they all of sudden tune in

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hedgehog]

21. Dude - make your criticism without offending people!

I know what you're saying, but a lot of people get upset (and rightfully so) at the use of the word "retard" !

[lojasmo]

31. True. I'm not very PeeCee.

Sry.

[hedgehog]

41. The English language, as rich and varied as it is, needs some

words to express such concepts without denigrating entire groups of people. We need a replacement for "retard" and also for "Gay" as in "that's so gay".

[FloridaJudy]

69. Dolt

Creep, jerk, fool, ignoramus, blockhead, ninny, ass, oaf, clod, lout, nitwit, boor, rat, clown, twit, churl, Philistine, vulgarian, buffoon, stooge, tool, heel, louse, pest, weasel.

That should get you started.

I do apologize to actual asses, rats, weasels and lice who aren't nearly as nasty as some humans.

[hedgehog]

72. ooh- I LIKE that! I just hope there isn't a long forgotten history of

this word that makes it as much a pejorative as retard! Block head is a good one, too!

[OwnedByFerrets]

75. My 7 weasels accept your apology

but wish you would be more PC the next time.:rofl: :rofl:

[FatDave]

83. "....and Methodists!"

OK, and republicans.

[Cha]

6. I'm just gonna hide the

sucking fucked up thread.

[JoFerret]

14. Very wise n/t

.

[d_b]

2. negs

[NoodleyAppendage]

8. I'm offering constructive criticism. His attack ads are not effective.

Facts are facts. Marketing is not foreign to me.

J

[ContinentalOp]

11. LOL "facts". So what do you do in marketing? -nt-

[d_b]

17. none

[NoodleyAppendage]

19. PhD in Psychology and MBA. Marketing experience = 10 years.

Political ads are a bit of a wonky hobby for me. I've seen them all and Obama's ad people REALLY need to sharpen the delivery. Look at McCain's recent retort on the "House" ad for a good (though not great) example of what Obama needs to do in his ads. Chopin-like piano background and light voiceover are NOT effective in grabbing attention.

J

[thunder rising]

22. wonky hobby vs enormously successful actual candidate for President ... hmmm

By all means, we should listen to no other than you.

[d_b]

23. I agree

Obama should run these ads like an XTREME! Mt. Dew commercial, complete with John Carpenter Halloween music and mushroom cloud images.

[NoodleyAppendage]

25. Whatever. When you are blindly loyal, you fail to see where things can be improved.

I didn't profess to be the only voice, but I know a good attack ad when I see one and Obama's house ad sucks by many objective measures.

J

[JoFerret]

34. The agency and the campaign operatives do the ads

And sometimes they can get things wrong.

I have no idea whether these ads are good or not but the fact they are from the "best" does not make them so.

New Coke?

[ContinentalOp]

27. I disagree. The main problem with political ads is that the people who make them...

are so wrapped up in the world of political ads. This one isn't great by normal advertising standards but it's better than most political ads which are stuck 40 years in the past.

I think the voiceover is particularly good. He sounds friendly and concerned but not overly smarmy, snarky, or overbearing like the voiceovers in so many political ads.

I think this fits nicely in a certain genre of ads that you see from utility companies, HMOs, pharmeceutical companies, etc. OK, so that doesn't sound like great company but I think this is basically a style of ad that is targeted toward women, and middle aged women in particular. It feels kind of comforting but it raises a concern. It's not in your face and negative. It's not sarcastic or fear-mongering. I think it's very successful in tone.

[goodgd_yall]

39. I think you've typed middle-aged woman all wrong

Many or us are pissed off and we want someone to express our simmering anger and frustration. Mr. Soothing Voice might be OK for a nursing home patients though, male or female.

[ContinentalOp]

59. I'm just basing this on other ads.

As I'm sure the Obama campaign did as well. Doesn't this remind you of a certain genre of modern advertising? Like those kind of ads where oil companies try to convince you that they are environmentally friendly? As I said before, not the best company to be in, but those major corporations did the market research and now the Obama campaign doesn't have to.

[goodgd_yall]

94. I noticed McCain's ads use the same reassuring voice

Well, not being in the business, I'm sure there must be marketing research to support what they're doing,but I'm not so sure they should be using the same form that the oil companies use. As you note, oil companies are trying to convince viewers to change their view of them, that they're really more like The Sierra Club. A political ad should succinctly make an impression about how bad the other guy would be if he gets elected.

[ContinentalOp]

95. That's just one approach.

"A political ad should succinctly make an impression about how bad the other guy would be if he gets elected." That's one style but by no means the only way to do things. If I had to sum up the style of this ad I would say it's more in the vein of "trusted friend casually raises some important questions."

It's more about planting a powerful seed of doubt rather than beating you over the head with the clumsy, snarky, "call me harold" kind of sleaze. I think if you really care about the issues, as most of us here do, it's kind of hard to see this distinction. We wonder why we can't run an ad with the same tone as the "call me harold" kind of ad, but where the content is actually truthful and relevant. The problem is that the audience probably doesn't separate the content from the presentation when they absorb an ad. So a piece done in that attack ad style is going to be perceived in a certain predetermined way, whether the actual content is true or whether it's just slimy innuendo.

[ContinentalOp]

7. Sorry, but you're wrong.

The house ad is pitch perfect.

[NoodleyAppendage]

12. For who? It fails to capture the attention at the outset.

I guess if you are stuck in your couch and can't reach the remote, then you might sit through the ad, but otherwise I'm not seeing it.

J

[Spazito]

9. ROFL! n/t

[democrat2thecore]

13. That would be Axelrod Media - The only thing I agree with you about is the voice

This one was pretty weak, it's not the usual talent.

[Colobo]

15. I do agree with you about the Daisy Ad.

[anonymous171]

16. I liked the "House" ad but I agree we should start the fear mongering

[nebenaube]

18. I haven't seen the ad but I think your idea is valid... n/t

[texastoast]

20. McCain's own words and voice should be used

Show some footage of actual McCain behavior. Then ask, "Does America need this for president?" Maybe the Statute of Liberty in the background.

Then a FISA logo drifting by.

Then images of endless war with cries of children.

Chinese sweatshop shots.

The ledger sheet with figures of campaign contributions by Big Oil and Big Business (oh, and let's just name names).

And any images of bad legislation McCain supported or didn't actively oppose.

[NoodleyAppendage]

24. Exactly! Though, not so extreme. Dem attack ads as a general rule fail to go for the throat.

I guess it's not in our "better" nature to go for the throat, but in this era of a dumbed down populace the only way you are going to make an impact is to appeal to the limbic cortex. Rove, for all his faults, realized this long ago and look how well it has worked for them (sans 2006).

In attack ads YOU DO NOT APPEAL TO INTELLECT, you MUST appeal to the gut and hit hard. Reasoned arguments are a sure fire way to lose a political fight.

J

[Labors of Hercules]

29. I agree with you the ads need a much sharper edge...

and be more explicit.

[goodgd_yall]

48. Agreed

And you can't scimp on the visuals. My observation has been that Obama's ads are too wordy. His campaign and many, many of his supporters are at least above average intelligence and I'm sure part of the thinking behind the ads is to win people over with reason, but many of the people who actually pay attention to political ads need a fast and powerful message that they don't need to think too much about. It doesn't have to be blatant fear-mongering. Just including well-edited audio clips of John McCain's own words would add to the effectiveness of Obama's ads.

[NoodleyAppendage]

54. BINGO. Less verbage and more scaccato phrasing and striking visuals.

Obama's current ad set is playing like it's geared for the PBS crowd, which he's go already. He needs to target the ads for the Nascar/WWF wrestling crowd...for these folks the ads much be viseral and contain at least one good catch phrase to sum up the problem (e.g., America can't handle a "loose cannon" at the helm).

J

[truedelphi]

76. THAT'S VERY TRUE. N/T

[Gabi Hayes]

51. couldn't agree more! great thread, and spot on analysis

most people here clearly don't know what they're talking about, and refuse to acknowledge the points you've made

dems NEED very badly to start going for the throat

Obama was at his best today (and DIDN'T STAMMER) when he WENT AFTER McCain about the houses, and tied it to the typical American not being of McCain's elite world. his anger was RIGHTEOUS, while suffused with dismissive humor, which makes for a great combination.

that ad, like so many of his, just doesn't strike the right tone, from the beginning

it doesn't do justice to the subject matter

the positive that may come out of this is the coverage the media are giving this story. If Obama can build on that momentum, and if the media keep doing their job, for a change,
this really could be a turning point in the campaign, which has been at a very bad disadvantage for the last month, whether people here choose to lift the curtain of selfsatisfied obliviousness, or not (while many of the polls, along with the VERY disturbing internals, like patriotism!!!!, trustworthiness!!!, likability!!!! have plummeted). all these things have happened because of the dirty, filthy, mendacious campaign the pugs have been waging, abetted at every turn by their buds in the M$M.

I hope this puts things back on track, and Obama forces them to cover the myriad other chinks in McCain's socalled armor of honor

[ContinentalOp]

35. That's what I thought at first but now I think they made the right decision.

Hearing McCain's voice would ruin the tone. It would also screw up the timing. By paraphrasing what he said and showing him in ominous slow motion, the campaign has total control of the pacing and message. We don't need to hear exactly what he said to know that's what he said.

[AndyTiedye]

40. I'm Rooting for a New "Daisy" Ad

The "Daisy" ad was the most effective attack ad of all time.
It pretty much nuked Goldwater's Presidential campaign.

I think McAngry is at least as much of a threat for starting WW3 as Goldwater ever was!

The original Daisy Ad is viewable on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKs-bTL-pRg

I think it is time for another.

[Born_A_Truman]

80. Let me take you back to 1982 California Senate Race, ok?

Sometimes, negative ads backfire too. Here’s an interesting story that I was personally involved in in 1982:


http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,949622-2,00.html

CALIFORNIA. From the start, one key issue dominated the race to succeed retiring Republican Senator S.I. Hayakawa: the personality and programs of Governor Jerry Brown. After eight fractious years in Sacramento and enough spacey ideas to earn him the nickname "Governor Moonbeam," Brown last June started out in the polls 22 points behind his Republican opponent, Mayor Pete Wilson of San Diego.

The ensuing campaign did neither candidate proud. The Governor tried to pick up votes by highlighting his position on the state's nuclear-freeze initiative, but alienated many voters with a heavyhanded TV spot. After a small boy said he wanted "to go on living," a mushroom cloud filled the screen and an announcer intoned: "Pete Wilson opposes the nuclear-arms freeze. Jerry Brown supports it. Vote for your life. Elect Jerry Brown to the U.S. Senate."

~~~~~~~
Now let me tell you a personal story about this commercial. It was produced right before the election and this was before commercials could go electronically. The master had a video glitch in it and I got a call from the dub house about it that Friday night. They wouldn’t dub and ship it until I approved it. The campaign person I dealt with was of Orthodox faith and was not reachable that Friday night so I had to make the decision on my own. I approved the spot to go out. As you can see from this Time article from 1982, it would probably have been best had I put a hold on it and suffered the wrath of the campaign on Monday---but none of us will ever really know .

On Election Day, Mayor Wilson beat the Governor, 51% to 45%.

[ContinentalOp]

91. Wow, that's an amazing story!

Thanks for the personal insight. You never know what will work or not and I tend to think that people who act as though advertising is a science don't really have much experience with it.

[zulchzulu]

28. I work doing radio and TV ads and what was done in less than a couple hours was impressive

Perhaps you haven't ever produced ads and namely political ads. Production such as copywriting, doing voiceover, editing video and perhaps some testing in an ad takes generally a day or so. This ad was turned around and on air in hours.

For what it was, it worked. The story will stick and believe me, the issue will be brought up later.

From a shoot from the hip production where the production and deployment timeframe is a fraction of what is usually done, it kicked ass.

The ad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCMVL5tXLGQ

[Born_A_Truman]

43. I do broadcast traffic...

and I can tell you it isn't easy getting it on the air that fast either. That was no minor feat!

[zulchzulu]

45. Absolutely... the pipeline to deliver that ad was flawless

There are always people talking out their ass on this stuff because they don't know how it's done.

[NoodleyAppendage]

49. I'll give you that, but it doesn't explain the similar rapidity of the more effective McCain retort.

Both Obama and McCain have quick action teams that's for sure. I'm just disappointed with the tone of the Obama ads. If you going to go for the throat, then go for the throat. I think Obama's group has an instinctual distaste in using negative ads, but they need to get over that reservation real quick.

J

[ContinentalOp]

53. Link please?

All of the McCain ads I've seen have been awful.

[NoodleyAppendage]

56. Here's the link. Compare this with the Obama "Chopin Music" House ad.

McCain is an idiot, but he has some non-idiots running the ad shop. You may not agree with the ads, but they are effective and grab the attention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjC2AlWy6CI

[ContinentalOp]

61. Sorry, but that ad is awful.

The voiceover is total amateur hour. And they used such a flattering picture of Obama!

[democrat2thecore]

93. They didn't use their usual voice either (who is awesome, unfortunately) -nt

[zulchzulu]

62. McCain is pulling out the Rezko card... it's time for hammer back with Keating Five

McCain shot his wad. Now the storm is coming down on McCain.

[NoodleyAppendage]

66. I think they worry that Keating Five is too long ago.

I noticed that they went with Abramoff first and not the SNL crisis. I suspect they are worried that the SNL crisis is too remote, but it could also be that many in Obama's ad camp weren't even born or conscious at the time!!

J

[zulchzulu]

55. I certainly understand your frustration...

I think the Obama campaign has let McCain play the negative card and perhaps that's good in a way. McCain has now shot his wad in negative ads with 75 days to go.

Obama still can go after McCain's Keating Five stuff (linked with his wife), the new Iraq timeline, the SCOTUS danger, the Draft and his many gaffes. I bet Colin Powell even does an ad. Obama's strategy can be twofold with some very hard hits followed up with his hope/change messages.

Then there are the Ted Sampley ads attacking at the very heart of McCain's POW cred coming in the fall, perhaps right after the GOP convention. That's going to hurt McCain a lot.

[Gabi Hayes]

78. stay away from Sampley

if you did a little research, you know he's a monster, just as bad as the worst repub you can think of

he's poison

you're very often quite astute for a youngster, but you reveal a dangerous naivete, when it comes to following, without questioning, the words of a person who's just as disgusting as David Duke, for example

please do a bit of googling on this guy, and his ties

you'll find yourself embarrassed to have cited him as a credible source

[zulchzulu]

82. I know about Sampley... he would in no way be linked to Obama...

Let Sampley do his attacks with his 527s. You can bet that Sampley would not want to be linked to Obama and vice-versa.

He is a scumbag...but he also can be very valuable in bringing out McCain's questionable POW stories... we don't need to help him...

[WA98070]

30. Why do Democrats want to be milk toast? Let McCain deny his own words and call...

Obama negative.

Where are the Vietnam POWs for truth?

[NYC Liberal]

32. There is more to come. This is ONE ad, and they are going to keep pounding it.

[goodgd_yall]

33. I'm one that agrees with you

I think the ads are generally weak in attacking McCain. And, having McCain's voice actually saying his own words instead of having this calm, soothing guy read them would be an improvement.

[ContinentalOp]

36. I disagree. This reaches people who shut off when they hear the typical political ad.

Hearing McCain's annoying voice would kill the tone of the ad.

[NoodleyAppendage]

44. Here's where the psychology training comes in...

Surveys have shown for decades that people "say" that attack ads turn them off, but for the same number of decades it has been EMPIRICALLY shown that negative ads work. I would ad that the ads need to be effective, as well. If you want to get a message across and you haven't captured viewers' attention in the first 10 seconds, then you are just throwing ad buy money away.

[Carrieyazel]

47. True. The only somewhat effective part of the ad was the very end

where the picture of the White House was shown, and "more of the same". But the lame announcing style diminshes it, and by then, the ad may not have captured the viewer.

[ContinentalOp]

73. In the first 10 seconds...

This ad catches the attention of people who may be struggling to pay their mortgage and it says that "John McCain says the economy is strong." Two seconds later we get the best image of the ad, the "foreclosure" sign with the voiceover "Hmm"

[goodgd_yall]

96. I agree the first few seconds are effective

But I think it is exactly at the "Humm" that the ad weakens. It goes on to say John McCain, when asked, couldn't remember how many houses he had---he has seven (not verbatim, but close). I really think the ad needs to be more direct and say something close to what Obama actually said at his appearance in Virginia linking McCain' wealth to his inability to understand the economic hardships of middle class Americans. The viewer, instead is asked to link the two---poor economy, foreclosures and McCain's number of houses. The connection might just get lost. I know it sounds like you have to be pretty stupid not to get the meaning, but when busy and/or tired people often have only have their attention on anything going on at the moment, I think it's possible that an ad like the "House" ad may miss the mark.

[Owl]

37. Have you offered your assistance to the Obama ad campaigns?

[Kittycat]

38. We need troll rating, like Kos has.

Not that your a troll, I just want to give you a negative for this post.

[goodgd_yall]

42. Then why that subject heading, if you know he's not a troll?

It's insulting especially for a fervent Democrat like N.A.

[NoodleyAppendage]

46. I'm trying to help. Democrats are not afraid to be self-critical.

I WANT US TO WIN IN NOV. Make no mistake about it. I LOVE Obama, but I've been very disappointed with his ads. The best ads that I have seen since the primaries are those of MoveOn.org, particularly the one where the young mother cradling her infant states that McCain "cannot have her child for a 100 years war in Iraq." That ad goes straight to the heart of the female vote and their instinctual need to protect their offspring. It was an effective fear ad meant to motivate people to VOTE AGAINST McCAIN.

J

[goodgd_yall]

50. Thanks for reminding me of a very effective ad

That one was excellent. That's a perfect model for what Obama ads should strive for.

[Kittycat]

68. I think his ads are great. And only highlight how pathetic JMs are.

I have no complaints.

[Carrieyazel]

52. I've got to agree. The ads are weak. This House ad had some potential

but the flaws in the ad diminish it.

[Gabi Hayes]

57. yep....I have not seen one single ad that's made me stand up and say YEAH!

except for a couple McCain made, which makes me sick, cause they're effective

of course they're rife with LIES, which always helps, especially when they're not called out in the media

the Rezko ad has two whoppers, which NOBODY, including dems, have bothered to refute

1) Rezko did NOT affect the purchase, or value, of Obama's house, according to the chicago tribune, NOT a liberal newspaper

2) there ARE no private beaches in Hawaii

these lies need to be pointed out forcefully, and made part of the fabric of the Obama campaign that CENTERS around the fundamental DISHONESTY of McCain. all they need to do is use his own words against him

check out these vids:

http://kr.youtube.com/results?search_query=mccain+lies++&search_type=&aq=f

http://kr.youtube.com/results?search_query=mccain+liar&search_type=&aq=f

[NoodleyAppendage]

64. They put the lies in there with the hope of extending the fracas and media plays.

We are of similar mind. I just hope someone in Obama's camp is tasked with scanning the grassroots and the constructive criticism about his ad set-ups is carried to a solution.

J

[Gabi Hayes]

67. that's exactly right. LIES work BETTER, as you know, because the lie

gets repeated over and over and over, even as it's being refuted. the lie remains in the average news consumers subconscious AFTER the refutation is offered, even if the consumer realizes he's been lied to

what's more beautiful than that?

if you're a lying fascist, whose only goal is to attain/maintain (McCain) power

[elocs]

58. What you are really telling us is:

"Okay, I'll say it. In my opinion, Obama's Ad Agency SUCKS". This is simply your opinion and does not come from the mouth of God. There is an outside chance you might be mistaken.

[NoodleyAppendage]

63. Yes. I believe this whole freaking website is a place for opinion. So, your point??

You are offering an opinion of my opinion. Welcome to threaded discussion and the 21st century.

J

[elocs]

65. What you write is based upon nothing but the air between your ears.

What a typical question asked here: have a link? No?

[PM7nj]

60. YAWN!

[Gabi Hayes]

70. now THIS would make an almost perfect ad, if....

you include just the first 30 seconds, and put in some nasty visuals of McCain's CREEPY physical presentation, with the blinks, and reptilian "smile," as he did so hideously in his New Orleans speech:

http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=6eKwTL8SwbI

[NoodleyAppendage]

71. I like it!!! McCain's said enough against his own candidacy to keep us in ads for months.

No voiceover bullshit. Just run McCain's voice and his admission of his raw, but hollow, ambition.

J

[Gabi Hayes]

77. just go to youtube and type in 'Mccain lies' and 'McCain liar'

there are about 2000 vids under just those two

also 'McCain ambition'

now, check this one, about MLK holiday, and how he OPPOSED it for FOURTEEN YEARS

John Conyers STOMPS all over his ass, and Jon Stewart puts the coda on a fine piece, with much fodder for 30 second spots:

http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=vnlw_zmYhvk&feature=related

[KittyWampus]

74. You are absolutely correct. Obama's ads are verbose, tame and lack powerful, symbolic take-aways

[DangerousRhythm]

79. If you are creatively inclined...

it seems you have some ideas for a Youtube video. I'm currently making one of my own. Time to get to work! :D

[symbolman]

81. Hey Obama

If you're reading this, CALL ME..

I've got the Chops baby, I'll send you my Takebackthemedia.com resume.. :)

[amborin]

84. Same as some of the speeches....

the crucial hard hitting important points are buried in a mass of deadly and boring statistics that cause listeners' eyes to glaze over

something needs to be done, fast!

[progressiveforever]

85. I agree

I won't say anything negative about Obama, but I have thought the last several ads were lackluster to say the least. They need some of the fire that Obama showed on the stump Thursday.

[democracy1st]

86. I agree his ad's suck and the Obama campaign needs to hit back with full force

[FatDave]

87. I respectfully disagree

I think the new ads are great. I think they're masterfully written and hit just the right notes. I even like the VO guy.

But hey, it's OK to disagree.

Aaaaarrrrrr, matey!

[opihimoimoi]

89. Yup...fire them dudes...prolly pub trolls....His Crew had better wake up quick...

For the sake of Humanity...we cannot afford to lose this most critical of Elections...this is it...no more BS crap for Leadership...

[DefenseLawyer]

90. I am no expert

Ads aren't even a wonky hobby for me. I think the goal for Obama is to get the point across without making what people immediately recognize as the classic "negative ad", with the ominous music and the iron balls McInty voice over that you prefer. There is still a long way to go. If you start running full blown negative ads now, as McCain has been forced to do, there seems to me a risk that 1. they will turn people off by election time and 2. they will simply lose their effectiveness/shock value, whatever you want to call it. Ultimately what may be the biggest gain from this round is that McCain was forced to shoot his Rezko wad in August.

[ContinentalOp]

92. All of the wannabe creatives here crack me up.

Out of the tons of photoshopped images, campaign ad scripts, and youtube videos that I've seen posted here by DUers, there hasn't been even one that was remotely suitable for actual use by the campaign. I certainly haven't seen any creative efforts here that could even lick the boots of this particular campaign ad. All of the people who think Obama is going to call them up asking for their precious creative input need to get a serious dose of reality.