Okay, so, can I get a role call for those of us on DU who think Obama is going to choose Hillary?

[thenext8seconds]

(Those of us on here who are actually Obama supporters, not PUMA people, and not freepers)

I already know that David Zephyr, jefferson_dem and rhombus are on board with the notion that it's gonna be here.

And everyone else I guess thinks that we're just totally delusional.

Anyway, who else agrees with us in thinking this would be a brilliant move, mainly because most all people have given up hope on the idea and it will knock the media and the rethugs off their feet. There would be mass momentum like none other in recent political history on Obama's side.

[NYC_SKP]

1. Wes Clark would also be a surprise.

I hope you're a supporter, I hope you care more about winning than whether or not Hillary is on the ticket.

[musicblind]

4. Clark would not be bad at all

and has been built in a way that he would totally surprise a lot of people.

He is far far better than Kaine or Bayh.

I still think Hillary is the best choice but I would be very pleased with a Wes Clark VP nomination.

Biden would also be a swell choice, and choose to also advocate him for the job too.

[greguganus]

5. Wes Clark here too. (lets turn this into a Clark thread) n/t

[Rosa Luxemburg]

10. yes to Wes

[NYC_SKP]

15. Good Idea....all the Clinton threads, actually

Switch em to Clark.....

:evilgrin:

[Chloroplast]

11. Clark would be a welcome surprise. Hillary...not so much.

I like Kaine but he's not strong on foreign policy, so that might put him out of the running. I'm really rooting for Clark though and believe he's the best choice.

[thenext8seconds]

21. I can assure you I am a HUGE Obama supporter.... In fact,

Hillary kind of annoys me, and I never really wanted her to be VP at first, but the fact is that moderate dems do still love the Clintons and John McCain wouldn't stand a chance against the two of them on the same ticket. Wouldn't stand a chance.

[Jakes Progress]

46. Clark would be best

if it comes after Hillary says no.

Hillary back in Senate where she could become the liberal lioness of the next decade.

Wes Clark to chew up whatever smuck mccain picks.

Bill on the campaign trail doing what he does best -tell people what a jerk mccain is, how bad the republicans have screwed us, and reminding us of how much better things are when a Dem is the president.

Obama not having to be coy about the Clinton years so that he can avoid Gore's and Kerry's mistakes of not using the Clinton years as a contrast to the bush1 and bush1/2 years.

Winning would be such a nice change.

[musicblind]

2. I think she has a better shot than most think. I'll go on the record for that

however, I wont go on the record to say that it absolutely will be her. I think it will be Kaine which will make me puke a little in my mouth.

I also think Biden (excellent choice) has a great chance as well.

So I'll say this. Hillary's chances = a lot better than people on here think but by no means a sure thing.

[dkf]

3. Nope. Never gonna happen

[Marrah_G]

6. I think there is a good chance he will pick her.

[salonghorn70]

7. Not Me

Love Hillary. Voted for her. I have said that I don't think Obama will pick her unless he had fallen behind in the polls by 5%-10%. I think that Obama's slight drop recently does not meet that test. Consequently, I really think that he will another.

[asjr]

8. The smartest move for Obama

would be a Hillary vice-presidency.

[zanne]

9. The Clintons have way too much baggage.

I don't for one minute think that they won't lump her in with Bill. Rove and Co. would have a field day.

[thenext8seconds]

23. Who cares if they try to lump Obama in w/ Bill

Screw them. They're lumped in with BUSH for the love of god.

[krispos42]

43. That about covers it

The relative handful of die-hard, unconverted Hillary supporters that would vote for an Obama/Clinton ticket would be more than met by the number of Republicans who attitudes would switch from staying home/not voting for president/voting Obama/voting 3rd party to "gotta keep Hillary out of office!!!!"

Hillary as VP, and the specter of her as President in 2016, would enable the Repubs to bury the hatchet and unify around something. It would refresh their spirits, which have been hurt by BushCo, the economy, and the war.

HillaryCare! Socialism! Feminism! Ack! Ack! :eyes:




And even if it's a 1:1 ratio (for every converted Hillary supporter Obama gets, McCain gets a panicked conservative), it would affect the electroal college map, probably turning potential narrow Dem victories in swing states into Republican squeeker victories.

Gaining an extra 5% is solidly-blue states doesn't do anything to help the electoral vote totals. But a 5% loss in Florida or Colorado or Ohio or Pennsylvania can lose the whole state and dozens of electrol votes.



If the Republicans refreshed their spirits, it would also negatively affect "downticket Dems", potentially costing us some seats in the House and Senate, as well as various state offices.

[SeaLyons]

12. Obama/Clinton -

I totally support this ticket. Dems will win by a huge landslide with this ticket. No doubt about it.

I think Obama is brilliant, and I think Hillary will be his choice.

[RaleighNCDUer]

13. Yes, I'm certain that Obama is very anxious to see

the republican ads in which they show his VP pick saying McCain is more qualified to be president than he is.

Waiter! Reality check, please!

[SeaLyons]

18. I think most people

are able to understand the two of them were in a primary against each other. The snarks went both ways.

[RaleighNCDUer]

25. It wasn't snark. It was flat out saying McCain was the better choice.

The republican ads would highlight it - showing 1) McCain is better - Hillary said so herself; 2) Hillary is an opportunistic liar, who can't be trusted to support her own party - how can we trust her with the country; and 3) Obama was weak enough to be blackmailed into taking her as VP, even though she says he is unqualified - that proves that he IS unqualified.

There is NO WAY that can be spun to build up Obama/Clinton and a half-dozen ways it will be used to tear them down. Obama is too smart to let himself in for that.

It won't be Hillary.

[SeaLyons]

26. Oh my god...

didn't mean to trigger your hatred of Hillary. Nevermind.

[RaleighNCDUer]

29. Do you think there is any possibility the repukes WON'T use those

Clinton anti-Obama speeches against them?

She brings nothing to the table that Clark or Biden or Warner or Sebelius don't EXCEPT 16 years of republican spite.

If she wants to stay on as Senator, fine. If she wants a cabinet post, great. But putting her on the ticket as VP will kill the ticket.

[SeaLyons]

35. We disagree...

I supported Hillary in the primaries, and I would love to see her on the ticket. I've not heard anyone say Hillary on the ticket would kill it. Quite the opposite. She brings more to the ticket than any other contender and that's just a fact.

Obama will make his choice. We shall see.

[Beacool]

14. I think that it would be his smartest choice.

But I also think that he won't do it.

:shrug:

[BklynChick]

16. definitely NOT

[NYC_SKP]

17. Clark, Wes Clark, excellent idea.....

hill is ok, I prefer clark....

[Efilroft Sul]

19. Red Five standing by.

Hillary Clinton as the VP pick, through the process of elimination, as the smart choice.

• Evan Bayh? Too midwestern for a geographically balanced ticket, too conservative, too bad.
• Kathleen Sebelius? Like Hillary Clinton would let that happen!
• Joe Biden? Better to keep him in the Senate. But if he has to be plucked from it, he should be Secretary of State. Plus, Delaware isn't exactly an electoral gold mine.
• Tim Kaine? Catch... the... fever... Zzzzzzzz...
• John Edwards? Zipper problem. And, dammit, I was an Edwards supporter to start. You let me down, chico.
• Wesley Clark? Love the guy, would really love to seem him selected, but he was tossed under the bus a few weeks back.
• Bill Richardson? Great for the southwestern/Rocky Mountain states for a geographical balance, half Hispanic, but where the hell has he been lately? If he's deliberately being kept under wraps, then he's my wild card.

Picking Hillary Clinton isn't exactly the "change" a lot of Obama's supporters seek, but neither was his stance on FISA and faith-based initiatives. If voters want change, then Obama should be prepared to fight like hell to win the White House and bring about his brand of change after his inauguration. Hillary Clinton is the type of fighter who can get him there.

Your opinions may vary, but our desire to win no matter who the VP pick is shouldn't.

[sampsonblk]

20. No way: that would signal to me that he's not ready to lead the nation-nt

[greguganus]

22. And not ready for change. n/t

[inthebrain]

31. Have you guys looked at Hillary on the issue VS the other Veep frontrunners?

Trust me.

Those guys are a step backward on a lot of them rather than a step forward.

[Chan790]

24. I don't think you're delusional...

but I think the chances of him choosing Hillary are marginally less than those of him choosing me and marginally more than him choosing John McCain. In any case, all three of those chances are asymptotically approaching zero.

Who? No idea.

I do think the sooner the Hillary for VP thing is dead and buried, the sooner we will see Obama start to pull away from War Hero McCranky. I don't think Obama/Clinton would be a winning ticket. It'd turn off a lot of Obama supporters, I don't think it'd bring any of the Clinton supporters not currently backing Obama back into the fold and I think it would energize the GOP base. Further, I don't think she'd take it if offered. She'd get more done and position herself better for a future Presidential run as President Pro-Tempore of the Senate.

[Skidmore]

27. Would be the worst thing he could do.

Right now the RW and the media is hugely disappointed that they don't have the Clintons to run against and follow around for the next several years. I want to keep it that way.

[CampDem]

28. I hope he chooses her

nt;)

[inthebrain]

30. I don't think it brilliant. It's the most practical

The front runners stances on a lot of issues are totally at odds with the party base.

On the issues, Hillary is much closer.

[RaleighNCDUer]

33. Specify, please,

what you mean by "front runner" - you mean Obama, the NOMINEE? No longer the frontrunner, the primaries are over and he won.

what you mean be "issues are totally at odds with the party base". Define the issues, and define the base. For that matter, define the party - if you can.

If Hillary were really closer to the majority of the party she would have WON.

She didn't. Get over it.

[inthebrain]

36. I'm talking about VP candidates

[RaleighNCDUer]

38. My mistake - frontrunner is usually applied to people who are actually

'running' - and nobody is 'running' for VP. It is Obama's choice, and a lot of people are being talked about, but nobody is running.

So you think that Hillary is closer to the base than the others whose names are being thrown out?

In what way? Pro-IRW and refused to recant until the primaries were underway. Pro-free trade, until she needed the unions to get the nomination. Favors using the military as a diplomatic tool, as evidenced by Kyl-Lieberman vote. Chooses a union-busting republican operative to run her campaign. Are THESE the things that endear her to the base?

Again, that requires a definition of 'the base'.

[inthebrain]

39. Why don't we start with abortion?

We can move to labor if you like. Bayh and Biden are favored much lees their as well.

[RaleighNCDUer]

41. With Obama having a 100% rating from NARAL, he needs no

help on the pro-choice plank. Hillary has a long history of "free trade" which hurts US labor, so she adds nothing there.

Next?

[inthebrain]

47. The Veep gets a deciding vote should there be a tie in the senate

Yeah, it's a real issue and a real problem right now. A lot of the newer Dems that are getting elected into congress want to ban Partial Birth Abortions and Public Funding.

The Labor issue has more to do with just Free Trade alone. And yes, even the nominee has warts there. OTOH, looking at the big picture Hillary is pretty solid and her stances don't conflict too harshly with organized labor. Labor doesn't have issue with Free Trade agreements. It's the fact that these agreements have no provision on workers rights. Theyt got snuffed out of the NAFTA agreement, and before they were snuffed they supported it.

Hillary's stances on living wages, not just the minimum wage, reaches all the way back to the nineties.

Here's a sample of where she stands on labor;

Voted YES on restricting employer interference in union organizing. (Jun 2007)
Voted YES on increasing minimum wage to $7.25. (Feb 2007)
Voted YES on raising the minimum wage to $7.25 rather than $6.25. (Mar 2005)
Protect overtime pay protections. (Jun 2003)
Rated 85% by the AFL-CIO, indicating a pro-union voting record. (Dec 2003)
Allow an Air Traffic Controller's Union. (Jan 2006)
Sponsored bill linking minimum wage to Congress' pay raises. (May 2006)
Extend unemployment compensation during recession. (Jan 2008)
No salary increase for Congress until minimum wage increased. (Jul 2007)
Would accept minimum wage as president. (Jul 2007)
Stand up for unions; organize for fair wages. (Jun 2007)
Get tough with China and bring jobs back home. (Feb 2007)
Minimum wage increases haven't kept up with Congress' wages. (Dec 2006)
Passed 2 planks of 7-plank platform, "New Jobs for New York". (Oct 2006)
Minimum wage should be tied to congressional salaries. (Jun 2006)
The working poor deserve a living wage. (Oct 1999)
America can afford to raise the minimum wage. (Sep 1999)
Recently "we're in it together" became "you're on your own". (Sep 1996)
Voted NO on terminating legal challenges to English-only job rules. (Mar 2008

Not sure what this is about;

Voted NO on repealing Clinton's ergonomic rules on repetitive stress. (Mar 2001)


SHe finished second in the primaries and it wasn't a fluke.

[CakeGrrl]

32. Hoping he does not pick her. Bad energy on the ticket, bad relationship in the WH

Despite whatever public front gets put up.

Bill does not like or respect him - that's my firm opinion.

She's DLC and an IWR supporter - there are several prospects who have been dismissed for that alone.

She dissed Obama beyond the bounds of inter-party competition. It's on the record.

The media want a "show" - they don't give a damn about the good of Democratic party dynamics. They want high-profile names to keep their stories going.

I hope Clark is off the radar because it's a smokescreen, but there are several options that would make more sense.

[highplainsdem]

34. I think it's both brilliant and practical -- and it's also too late for Obama to pick anyone else if

he doesn't want much of the media coverage of the convention to be about disappointed Clinton supporters among the delegates and superdelegates. There simply isn't enough time left for them to recover and feign enthusiasm for someone else at all convincingly.

Besides, as I've pointed out in other topics here:

Clinton's in Florida today.

She's at the NY state fair tomorrow -- and Bill is not supposed to be with her.

As far as I can tell, she has nothing scheduled for Saturday, when Obama is in Springfield. Nothing the media was told about, anyway.

She's scheduled to give the closing address at the United Farm Workers convention on Sunday afternoon in Fresno -- which is not very far out of the way of a tour of western swing states before the Democratic convention. (And Obama is hitting some eastern swing states, and, as I said, she's in Florda today, so their emphasis after the announcement would be on central and western swing states.)

The UFW convention is about an ideal a venue for a joint appearance by the Democratic nominee and running mate as you can get -- and can you picture that crowd chanting "Yes, we can! Si, se puede!"

And so, if it is her, and if she and Obama make appearances in MO and MN as well as the western swing states, they'll have been in states with approximately 200 electoral votes the week before the convention.

Which is perfect campaigning and political theater.

No other VP choice is even close.


Editing because I forgot to mention, re the UFW convention, that Clinton and Obama are co-sponsors of the AgJOBS bill so important to that union -- and that underscores how well they've already worked together.

[NYC_SKP]

37. Where's Bill? That's all we would hear for four or eight years...

Even highplainsdem mentions that Bill will not be with Hillary at the NY state fair.

I don't need to hear anymore about Bill Clinton...

[mcctatas]

40. I think Obama is going to pick the best person for the job....

so Hillary is still in the running IMHO...

[okieinpain]

42. I pray he does so we can at least get her supporters to shut up. n/t.

[Mz Pip]

44. I think it's a possibility

I really have no clue what Obama will do. I hope he does pick Biden or Hillary. He needs someone who won't be afraid to get down in the gutter with McCain. Somehow Bayh just doesn't seem to fit that profile.

[Occam Bandage]

45. I'd like it, but I don't think he will at all.