The case against Hillary

[ProSense]

For those throwing up the 18 million primary voters as if they're still with Hillary, one could make a case for John Kerry.

Kerry holds the record for being the second largest fundraiser in the Democratic Party. When Obama broke the primary record with $55 million, that record belonged to Kerry with $44 million. Obama's $51 million take is slightly higher than Kerry's $47 million in July 2004.

Kerry earned 10 million votes in the 2004 primary without the fanfare, and 59 million votes in the GE.

Do the people pushing Hillary's 18 million believe that Kerry brings 59 million voters to the table?

How about only half of that, 30 million?

Kerry got a slightly higher percentage of the Independent vote than Bush. Hillary turns off Independents.



Some seem to believe that Obama must kowtow to the Clintons in order to appease a few people who can't get over the fact that she lost.

She did. Obama doesn't owe Hillary anything. Those people will have to decide for themselves whether they are going to support the Democratic candidate.

Hillary is not a bargaining chip. That's not how Obama is going to select his VP.

"Rock tossers" are the people still holding out support contingent on a bigger role for Hillary, some still wanting it to be even bigger than Obama's.

Obama doesn't need Hillary's expertise


There are a number of excellent VP choices, Obama doesn't need Hillary to save him.

[billyoc]

1. "Rock tossers" is being too kind.

More like the post mortem blast of flatulence from a bloated corpse.

[TexasObserver]

12. a Six Feet Under "oh snap!"

I tend to agree with ya

[ProSense]

2. All about Hillary?

First thoughts: All about Hillary

Posted: Thursday, August 21, 2008 9:21 AM by Mark Murray

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro
*** All about Hillary: Even after she ended her presidential bid back in June, perhaps we should have guessed that this presidential contest (or at least the convention) was still going to be about the Clintons. And our new NBC/WSJ poll is the latest evidence to back this up. In the survey, Obama leads McCain by three points, 45%-42%, which is down from his six-point advantage last month. Our pollsters identified a few factors behind the tightening race -- the Russia-Georgia conflict, McCain’s negative ads, and lingering doubts about Obama -- but the biggest reason why this race remains close in this Dem-leaning political environment is because of Obama’s inability to close the deal with some of Clinton’s supporters. According to the poll, 52% of them say they will vote for the presumptive Democratic nominee, but 21% are backing McCain and an additional 27% are either undecided or want to vote for someone else. For that reason, NBC/WSJ co-pollster Peter Hart (D) says Clinton’s convention speech on Tuesday, as well as when her name is put in nomination, will be significant. “The Democratic convention is more than a coronation,” Hart explains. “It is an event where the words of Hillary Clinton are probably going to be exceptionally important.”

*** More on the Clinton factor: To take Obama's problem with some Clinton voters a step further, our pollsters looked at those HRC backers who aren't voting for Obama. They made up 11% of the survey, and they tend to lean Democratic: They disapprove of Bush's job, believe the country is on the wrong track, and slightly favor Dems on a generic ballot. But -- and this is a big but -- they have a much better impression of McCain than they do of Obama. Among this group, Obama's fav/unfav is 24%-50% (McCain's is 43%-20%); 55% say they don't identify with Obama's values and background (just 18% of them say that about McCain); and 65% say they are uncomfortable with Obama as president (only 36% believe that about McCain). Considering how important former Clinton primary voters seem to be in our NBC/WSJ poll, it might be worth keeping a closer eye on Clinton's stumping trip for Obama in Florida today. She'll be campaigning for a demographic that hasn't been one Obama's stronger voting groups: older white women in Palm Beach County

more

(emphasis added)

That most likely is the reason for the gap closing, and Obama is still ahead. Half of the 11% are going to vote for the nominee anyway, and a fifth plan to vote for McCain.

Let them go.

[mod mom]

3. Hillary will draw out the GOP base. There's a reason Rush and other RW hacks pushed her in the prim:

▪ What might have actually happened in Ohio and Texas? Tin foil hat?
▪ Clip:
: "Rush, I understand that the Rush Limbaugh audience is mobilizing in Texas for Hillary. Am I hearing that right?"

: "I don't know if the audience is mobilizing or not. I am urging people — I am using a phrase — the Republicans — our nominee is chosen. It's John McCain.

Texas is open. And I want Hillary to stay in this, Laura. This is too good a soap opera. We need Barack Obama bloodied up politically, and it's obvious that the Republicans are not going to do it and don't have the stomach for it.

As you probably know, we're getting all kinds of memos from the RNC saying not to be critical there. Mark MacKinnon of McCain's campaign says he'll quit if they get critical over Obama.

This is the presidency of the United States you're talking about. I want our party to win. I want the Democrats to lose. They're in the midst of tearing themselves apart right now. It is fascinating to watch, and it's all going to stop if Hillary loses.

So yes, I'm asking to cross over and, if they can stomach it — I know it's a difficult thing to do to vote for a Clinton — but it will sustain this soap opera, and it's something I think we need. It would be fun, too."

http://www.thomhartmann.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=609&Itemid=113

[TexasObserver]

13. You are right.

McCain has a real problem. No matter who he chooses for VP, he loses some of his base. Lieberman and Ridge might help him with middle voters, but will cost him fundies. Huckster will cost him middle voters. Romney will cost him fundies.

The only thing that will save McCain from this dilemma is if Obama names Hillary for his VP. That will blow away any problems McCain has with his base. It will energize a lackluster GOP party.

[Lucky 13]

4. Thanks for this post

I am so tired of all the posts suggesting, requesting or even demanding she be the VP. She does him more harm than good. And he needs to pick the person that will work best WITH HIM.

I am doing my best to restrain myself from replying to the large # of pro Hillary threads.

[blm]

5. Clinton 'fans' want Clintons given 1 more opportunity to protect the Bushes, because 17 years hasn't

been enough.

[mod mom]

16. Yep...Cover up of BCCI and Iran Contra, coupled w Bill's support of the Telecom Act of '96,

helped lead the way for "w"/ What would a Hillary in the WH do? Pave the way for Jeb?

I really wish folks here would do a little research of their own when so many (think: Daily Kos as well as many here) have serious suspicions of the Clinton/Bush connection.

Here's a hint to those of you with doubts: Jackson Stephens relationship to both the Clintons & Bushs.

[ProSense]

6. No other comments? n/t

[Metric System]

7. Wow, I'm shocked by your post. I never saw this coming from you.

[ProSense]

9. It's a straightforward argument, you're free to refute it. n/t

[Beacool]

8. No problem.

I guess that since he doesn't need either Clinton, they should both stay out of the whole thing and not campaign for him at all. I assume that you also think that he doesn't need her supporters.

[ProSense]

10. Read

this

[TheWraith]

11. Since they're obviously not doing that much to help, apparently we're going to get by without them.

[CakeGrrl]

14. The supporter threat yet again...since you're so sure of this, tell us how many are holdouts.

As for the Clintons staying out of it, I'd much prefer Bill hold radio silence to what he's been saying lately. Obama can surely find more passionate advocates for his platform and his qualifications.

If you can't vote for the Democratic nominee because he may not pick Hillary, make sure your job and your mortgage are fireproof.

And tell your friends, I guess...since they're the ones you keep implying are going to sit at home if the Clintons don't get every concession you want them to have.

[TexasObserver]

15. If they cannot control their people, they're not doing their jobs.

And since they appear to be making no attempt to do so, it's worse than not doing their jobs. Hillary's recent backyard appearance made clear that she's still not on board like she has to be.

She and Bill will either have a future in the party after next week, or they'll have ruined any chance either has of being a factor the next 8 years.

[Erin Elizabeth]

17. That's a great idea.

I think we'd all be better off if the Clintons just stayed mum for a while. Like until after election day. And most of her primary supporters are now going to vote for Obama. The most hardcore Hillary voter I know in real life wouldn't even speak to people for a few days after her concession speech. Then she started angrily saying she was voting for McCain. Then she said she was just staying home on election day. Just the other day, she told me she's changed her mind and is voting for Obama, because we can't afford four more years of Bush policies.

Except for a very tiny percentage, I think that's how it's gone and how it's going to go for most Hillary supporters from the primary. So stop trying to use your vote as some sort of bargaining chip, that's pathetic.

[Beacool]

18. 25% is a tiny percentage? n/t