To all those who called us "concern trolls"...

[dkf]

sometimes you can tell when you need to be concerned.

This is the main point...how can someone defend the country when he isn't even interested in defending himself and is unwilling to go on the attack even when justified?

To anyone concerned about how we attack McCain: you are part of the problem. Anything that can be used to convert even one section of the population needs to be used. People will not be offended or turned off at things they don't even know.

You don't want to go to his personal life? He is willing to say anything about his policies to get these people on board. For the religious right, that leaves his personal life, which he can't refute.

You don't want to attack his military record? Face it, what did he accomplish in his career other than surviving his days in camp? And call him on BS, like the cross in the sand story.

I see all those areas as completely legitimate. As long as we don't lie we are on firm territory.

Lastly, economy economy economy. Mismanagement mismanagement mismanagement. Out of touch out of touch out of touch. Hasn't had to budget since he married Cindy because he knows a meal ticket when he sees it.

Obama needs all of us to be attack dogs or we will lose this election. He thinks he can do this all through turnout. I don't think that will work. Its up to us now.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

1. Agree, but disagree

It is necessary to attack, but attacking McCain himself is sub-optimal.

McCain's greatest weakness is that he is a Republican. Without a broad coherent underlying attack on the Republican party as an institution attacks on McCain will not stick.

[Virginia Dare]

3. I disagree if the strategy is to go for the independent voters..

they'll ultimately vote for the man, not the party. There's lots of those types out there. Those are the ones who vaulted shrubya over the top because they wanted to have a beer with him.

[dkf]

5. The problem is that people know he used to buck Bush before he was running

for President.

Frankly, I think he is lying more to his own base than anyone and I bet a lot of people see the same thing I do.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TwilightGardener]

17. Not true. McCain's greatest weakness is that he is an unprincipled, dishonest,

temperamental, corrupt, not-terribly-bright, lazy, nasty, going-senile old prick with delusions of grandeur who is still living of off the media and Mark-Salter-created POW/Maverick legend that he spent years polishing--being a Repub is the least of his faults. We should certainly punch him for his Repub policies (as Obama has been doing), but also punch him for his many personal flaws that make him unfit for office.

[Egnever]

2. LOL you people are funny

Obama takes a vacation and slips a little in one poll and folks like you run around saying see we were right!

What a fuckin joke.

[dkf]

7. We were right that the big Mo was leaving the station.

We will probably get it back from the convention, but we need to figure out how to maintain it. All Obama's bounces fade, even in the primaries. My opinion is he doesn't know how to take his opponent out because he has no interest in going for the jugular.

[Egnever]

15. He went on vacation

What did you really expect would happen when he took a week off he would gain?

Get a grip.

[dkf]

19. That was the best time to blanket the airwaves with surrogates.

Strange I don't remember very many and I watch TV all day long.

[Egnever]

28. Its olympics week

this is not the time to do anything. As Mcsames spitting in the wind is showing. Its a great time to waste cash though when no one is really paying attention. Glad the people in the mcsame camp think like you and are more than happy to waste his cash.

Gramps doesnt have a chance. Obama beats him even when he goes on vacation and was out of the country for a week or so before that. Im the last month Obama has been off the campaign trrail for most of it and Mcsame cant do more than get a little tiny bounce while throwing everything hes got at an absent Obama.

Things are looking good.

[dkf]

29. But people were paying attention. The polls are changing, nationally and in battleground states.

Conventional wisdom said everyone would be paying attention to the Olympics but maybe that isn't true.

[Egnever]

30. And maybe pigs fly

[islandmkl]

8. but...but....the election's next week!!

my take is that Obama is executing the rope-a-dope...

October is when the fight establishes everything, especially the END of October...

hand-wringing is such a good way to pass the time...keeps one from getting too involved in the real process of making this happen...

those who can, do....those who can't, become critics....

[dkf]

12. Once a person despises someone, its hard to change that opinion.

You need to catch them before things harden.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

16. There is no rope-a-dope in politics

Fights are judged round by round, late rounds count the same as early rounds and you have the option of physically disabling the opponent.

If the rope-a-dope analogy were properly applied to politics Ali would have lost. Voters would have watched the first few rounds and seen Ali *defined* as an over the hill fighter lying back on the ropes, said "this guys sucks, I'm voting Foreman" and changed the channel having formed their impression.

No sane politician has EVER planned to let the opponent define him so it will be more exciting when he roars back in the latter rounds.

[dkf]

20. "No sane politician has EVER planned to let the opponent define him

so it will be more exciting when he roars back in the latter rounds."

You are 100% correct. Well said.

[islandmkl]

24. maybe you should read the history of the rope-a-dope...

you have it nearly backwards...

Ali allowed Foreman to define Foreman's strategy, without recognizing Ali's tactics...

Foreman's own description of the later rounds, when he was sure he had Ali beaten:

"At about the seventh round, I had him beaten, I knew I had him," Foreman recounted after the fight. "He fell on my side and whispered, ‘Is that all you got George?’ I knew something strange was happening in my life especially because that was all I had."
In the eight round Ali came off the ropes and unleashed a fury of punches against his exhausted opponent. The dope went down. "I did it," Ali boasted after the fight. "I told you he was nothing but did you listen? I told you I was going to jab him in the corners, I told you I was going to take all his shots. I told you he had no skill. I told you he didn't like to be punched."

[TheDebbieDee]

4. Ding! Ding! Ding!

"How can someone defend the country when he isn't even interested in defending himself and is unwilling to go on the attack even when justified?"

This is it in a nutshell. Everytime the Dems want to take the "high road", it's perceived exactly as stated above.

It was true of Kerry, Gore and Dukakis! It allowed the repukes to keep the polls close enough for them to steal the elections. I hope it won't be true of Obama.

[lojasmo]

31. How did that work out for Clinton in the primary? EOM

[TheDebbieDee]

33. No, the question is: How did it work for them in '92 and '96?

The Clintons were outmanuevered in the primaries by the Obama Campaign.

Remember, several key staffers high up in the Obama Campaign used to work for the Clintons. If the former Clinton staffers in the Obama Campaign have been reigned in since the primaries ended, then maybe they should be let loose again.

As a Democrat, I'm sick of supporting "high road" losers! We've got to win this election!

[liberal N proud]

6. Bark

[dbonds]

9. This stuff does need to get out there, but I don't think it should be from Obama camp.

This is where other groups come in, to get this info out there. Most people voting republican this time are not voting for McCain, they are voting against Obama. They have been brainwashed to hate liberals - even though Obama is not even close to a liberal and most of them don't even know what a liberal is (they just know they hate them). Getting this info out won't make them vote Democratic, but it might make them not vote.

[dkf]

14. Obama convinced 529s to shut down. Big mistake.

[TwilightGardener]

18. 527's? I read in HuffPo that he changed his mind and was going to

look the other way.

[dkf]

21. When was this? I hope it is true.

[TwilightGardener]

22. Last week. You might find it in a search there--it was a headline story.

[dkf]

23. Ha! See he knew things were turning. Concern trolls indeed.

[Tesibria]

10. Agree, generally ...

This is the main point...how can someone defend the country when he isn't even interested in defending himself and is unwilling to go on the attack even when justified?

This is the sentence I have most difficulty with. Obama IS defending himself -- just not in the 'typical' way that we're used to seeing (i.e., not a la Rove). But he is consistently defending himself with facts, position papers, and responses.

Obama IS attacking McCain -- just not in the 'typical' way that we're used to seeing (i.e., not a la Rove). But he is (and surrogates are) consistently pointing out McCain's errors in judgment, improper statements, etc.

Anything that can be used to convert even one section of the population needs to be used. People will not be offended or turned off at things they don't even know.

I agree, so long as the "thing" is truthful, and communicating in an honorable way. And, by honorable, I don't mean mansypansy, or whatever. What I mean is without the deceptive, dishonoring Rove tactics.

You don't want to go to his personal life? He is willing to say anything about his policies to get these people on board. For the religious right, that leaves his personal life, which he can't refute.

Agree that personal life, and personal decisions, are valid "areas of inquiry." (And upon inquiry, valid areas of "attack.")

You don't want to attack his military record? Face it, what did he accomplish in his career other than surviving his days in camp?

This is why I want (but don't expect to get) Clark as VP. Clark's credentials just blow McCain's out of the water. That being said, have been seeing multiple "POWs Against McCain" posts and videos -- I think this is going to be covered.

And call him on BS, like the cross in the sand story.

Andrew Sullivan is ON it. :)

I see all those areas as completely legitimate. As long as we don't lie we are on firm territory.

I agree 100%!!!!!!! (emphasis added).

Lastly, economy economy economy. Mismanagement mismanagement mismanagement. Out of touch out of touch out of touch. Hasn't had to budget since he married Cindy because he knows a meal ticket when he sees it.

I agree 100%!!!!!!!

Obama needs all of us to be attack dogs or we will lose this election. He thinks he can do this all through turnout. I don't think that will work. Its up to us now.

YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!

[TwilightGardener]

11. Good post. What Hillary did, what the GOP does, is take wild swings, just

rain down blows and punches and hope SOME of them make contact on Obama, true or not. It's the thousand-cut principle. Any one attack might be dismissed by a large segment of voters, but someone, somewhere will have it stick in their minds and turn them off. Multiple attacks on multiple fronts will leave large segments of the public with doubts and drive up negatives. We need to do that.

[Lorien]

13. Yes, but also Obama needs to state very clear policy positions NOW

look, last week the Bush administration said that it would overturn much of the endangered species act, putting corporate profits before the very survival of thousands of important species, which may very well be lost to future generations. Not a big deal? OUR survival-our very existence on this earth-depends on biodiversity. It's a huge deal, even for the most selfish species on earth. Obama's response? Nothing. It's just "assumed" that Obama will fix what's been broken. That's not good enough. He has to point out what's gone wrong AND propose CLEAR plans on how he'll fix it. Not "we", but Obama specifically. "Hope" and "change" are not policy positions. Not taking any clear positions on the issues may keep you in the center, but it won't bring out your base come election day. People want something to vote FOR, not just something to vote AGAINST.

[quiet.american]

26. I don't understand where this comes from. He states policy ALL the time.

Two examples below, I've bolded some of it, but just about everything in these excerpts talks about specific steps he'll take:

Remarks of Senator Barack Obama: Town Hall on Energy (excerpt)

That's why I voted for an energy bill in the Senate that was far from perfect, and that included tax giveaways to oil companies that I fought to eliminate, but that also represented the single largest investment in renewable energy in history. And that's why if I am President, I will put the full resources of the federal government and the full energy of the private sector behind a single, overarching goal - in ten years, we will eliminate the need for oil from the entire Middle East and Venezuela. To do this, we'll invest $150 billion over the next decade and leverage billions more in private capital to harness American energy and create five million new American jobs - jobs that pay well and can't be outsourced, good union jobs that lift up our families and communities.


There are three major steps I'll take to achieve this goal. First, we'll commit ourselves to getting one million 150 mile-per-gallon plug-in hybrid cars on our roads within six years. And we'll make sure that the cars of tomorrow are built not just in Japan or China, but right here in the United States of America. Second, we'll double the amount of our energy that comes from renewable sources by the end of my first term. That means investing in renewables like wind and solar power, and we'll also invest in the next generation biofuels. Third, I will call on businesses, government, and the American people to meet the goal of reducing our demand for electricity 15% by the end of the next decade. This is by far the fastest, easiest, and cheapest way to reduce our energy consumption - and it will save us $130 billion on our energy bills.

Remarks of Senator Barack Obama: Town Hall on the Economy (excerpt)

That starts with easing the burden on hardworking families. If I'm elected President, I'll put a $1,000 tax cut in the pockets of 95% of workers and their families. I'll provide relief to struggling homeowners. I'll eliminate income taxes for seniors making under $50,000 a year. And I'll give working parents the support they need by making childcare affordable and expanding paid leave - and we'll make sure that women get equal pay for equal work.


But you need relief right now. That's why yesterday, I announced a two-part emergency plan to help struggling families make ends meet and get our economy back on track. The first part of my plan is to tax the windfall profits of oil companies and use some of that money to help you pay the rising price of gas. Now, this is an area where my opponent and I disagree - because he opposes using this money to help you pay your bills.


The other day, we learned that Exxon Mobil made nearly $12 billion last quarter. To put it another way, they made $1,500 every second. That's more than $300,000 in the time it takes you to fill up a tank of gas. And Senator McCain actually wants to give oil companies like Exxon another $4 billion in tax cuts. Well, I don't think we should be giving tax breaks to oil companies that are doing better than ever at a time when you're struggling more than ever. It's time to use some of their record profits to help you pay record prices by putting a $1,000 emergency energy rebate in the pockets of working families.


The second part of my plan is a $50 billion stimulus to help jump-start job creation and help local communities that are struggling due to our economic downturn. Half of this stimulus will go to state governments that are facing big budget shortfalls. And we'll invest the other half in our national infrastructure so we can create new jobs and save over one million jobs that are in danger of being cut, rebuild our crumbling roads and bridges, and repair our crumbling schools.

[Tesibria]

27. Obama EXPRESSLY Supports the ESA & Opposes Bush's Plan to Destroy It

Re: Endangered species act & Obama: Upon publication of the info re: Bush's plan for the Endangered Species Act, Obama PROMPTLY issued a statement of his opposition to Bush's Plan.

See, e.g., (one of about 100 articles on the issue found by a simple google search), Obama opposes Bush endangered species proposal

"This 11th-hour ruling from the Bush administration is highly problematic. After over 30 years of successfully protecting our nation's most endangered wildlife like the bald eagle, we should be looking for ways to improve it, not weaken it," said Obama campaign spokesman Nick Shapiro. "As president, Senator Obama will fight to maintain the strong protections of the Endangered Species Act and undo this proposal from President Bush."

As for general issues, have you BEEN to his website???

He has very clear, very detailed plans set forth. There are pages and pages.

We can't control how/what the MSM reports on these plans. But (a) he has very specific "FOR" plans; and (b) it is up to us, as part of his campaign, to get that message out. (He talks about them on the road. He refers to them in interviews. WE should be summarizing them in our communications too.)

[On the Road]

32. I Have Great Hope for Obama

I know he's thinking one step ahead. I just hope his political calculations are correct. The weeks since his foreign trip weeks are very concerning. McCain has regained the momentum and it has to be taken.

The charges of being a 'concern troll' are ignorant bloviating. There is reason for reason for hope, but also reason for concern. The need for greater personal contributions to the campaign do not negate that.

The 'don't worry' attitude reminds me of Ralph Nader in 2000. The fact that every DUers can see that Obama is a superior candidate does not mean he will win the election. Even if the polls show the race going all the way to the wire, some people are not going to believe it, cry fraud, and learn nothing for the next election.

[JackORoses]

34. I almost suffocated from the stifling Concern in this thread

It's putrid.