Clinton Backers to Make Noise at Dem Convention

[Hissyspit]

Source: Associated Press

Clinton backers to make noise at Dem convention
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER – 2 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Still sore from an epic primary battle, some of Hillary Rodham Clinton's supporters aren't buying the unity theme planned for the Democratic National Convention. They weren't mollified when nominee-in-waiting Barack Obama gave prime-time speaking slots to Clinton and her husband, the former president. Instead, they're itching for a fight and plan to wage one in Denver.

One group intends to paper the city with fliers, promote a video detailing what they contend were irregularities in the nominating process and unleash bloggers to give their take on the proceedings. Another group has purchased newspaper advertisements demanding that Clinton be included in a roll-call vote for the nomination. "I am a very realistic woman," said Diane Mantouvalos, co-founder of the Just Say No Deal Coalition. "I don't think that anything is going to change, but I do think it is important to be heard, and this is our way of doing it."

Some of the disaffected Clinton supporters are open to supporting Obama; many are not. Obama needs Clinton's supporters to beat Republican John McCain. Polls show that he has won over most of them. But some simply don't like Obama or still feel Clinton was treated unfairly during the primaries. These groups are not affiliated with Clinton, who has endorsed Obama and campaigned for him. Representatives from the Clinton and Obama campaigns said they are working to unify the party because Obama will champion issues important to Clinton supporters, such as reforming health care, improving the economy and ending the war in Iraq.

- snip -

Mantouvalos, a Miami public relations consultant, said her network is renting a 5,000-square-foot loft in Denver for its bloggers. Another outfit called The Denver Group is planning a reception the evening Hillary Clinton speaks at the convention. The group, which is pushing for Clinton's name to be placed in nomination, also hopes to raise enough money for a TV ad.

Read more: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gMutgUjHcnUEPbZn2u5AviKtnJyAD92HTPSO0

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[no_hypocrisy]

1. If HRC clearly told her supporters to knock it off, would they?

Or is this a movement that no longer is about her as much as it is about them?

[liberal N proud]

7. It has always been about them

Hillary even used that in her speeches many times. The Daily Show had a piece about that Monday or Tuesday.

But I still wonder if those who are making the noise are Democrats who supported Clinton or Ditto-heads that vow to continue to stir things up.

[WHAT]

35. PUMA, BOOGA, BOOGA...

Alotta noise, no power. People do choose, and they didn't choose "that".

[Tesha]

16. No, because many of these folks are actually Republican Agent Provocateurs.

They're doing exactly the job they intend to do and won't stop
no matter who asks them. And they have the media's ear and
don't intend to give that up either.

Tesha

[LuckyTheDog]

20. Clinton needs to DENOUNCE THIS

In a very firm manner. She needs to make a major speech about it. A full-page ad in the NY Times would be a good idea, too.

If Clinton wants Obama to win, she needs to show she is serious about it.

Hillary, I am calling you out. I want to still like you. Will you give me a reason to think you're still a legitimate leader in the Democratic Party?

[Bake]

25. She's already given you those reasons!

She has campaigned and spoken out forcefully and effectively for Obama. She's speaking at the convention, and I'm sure it will be a barn-burner for Obama. Will that satisfy you? Or will you still be saying "give me a reason?"

Bake

[LuckyTheDog]

37. She needs to be explicit about it

She has been too coy. It's like she is giving a wink and a nod to the PUMA folks. Until she disavows them by name, they will remain encouraged -- and they will continue to cast doubt about whether or not Obama really has the nomination.

I am beginning to wonder what Clinton's real intentions are.

[GoesTo11]

39. Come on, she never plays coy

as far as I know

[Flying Dream Blues]

54. I agree with you. Explicitly denounce the PUMAs and their actions, otherwise

I feel she is playing it both ways. If she denounces them they lose their credibility and the media lose their incentive to give them airtime.

[SwampG8r]

48. bake is correct

she has worked tirelessly for obama since the end of primary but the MSM wont tell us that
it isnt the story they want to tell

i never thought i would say it but
jesus h christ
what does this woman have to do to get EVERYONE off her freaking back?
i opposed her solidly in the primaries and now i am defending her
has the world turned up side down?

stop eating our own people!
damn

[mkultra]

31. reject and denouce :)

[cliffordu]

34. Renounce and disavow... :~)

[JuniperLea]

41. I think the majority of these freaks are Repug operatives...

Nothing Hillary could say or do would make a difference in their actions. This is a Repugnant plot... PUMA plot, etc.

But look around you here... either there are a lot of them here, or there are a lot of paranoid people falling for this bogus crap.

[Flying Dream Blues]

55. The point is, if they're Rethug disruptors she needs to distance herself completely by denouncing

them.

[Arkansas Granny]

30. These are not Hillary Clinton supporters. This is RW crap posing as her supporters.

Hillary has endorsed Obama and has asked her supporters to vote for him. She has no control over these people and they are clearly not going to do what she has asked them to do. If she were to address them directly, it would give them a legitimacy that they do not deserve.

[windbreeze]

36. I am sorry, I know different...

they ARE Hillary supporters...HOW do I KNOW THIS??? because I have belonged to what was a TOTALLY DEMOCRATIC group(since very early 2003) who supported ONLY DEMOCRATIC candidates, damn it...and when Hillary LOST the nomination..there were those in this group who went absolutely HAYWIRE, and threatened all sorts of actions against Obama...some of us have NO CLUE as to the anger her supporters felt over her loss....personally, I was astounded at the venom I have seen spewed over Obama's "presumptive" nomination....we have to stop burying our heads in the sand, and saying they are Republicans...I'd be willing to bet that a majority of these people ARE NOT...

Clinton needs to disavow herself from them...and do it in a forceful and convincing manner...has she released, or told her delegates to get behind Obama?? Obama took my state overwhelmingly...yet, I read in my local paper that Clinton delegates are going to the convention with the intent to force Obama to put her on the ticket as VP...how can there still be Clinton delegates to the convention, IF she has told them to get behind Obama??? Some things do NOT add up..unless there are other things going on behind the scenes that we are not privy too...or are being kept quiet on purpose...

I know Obama has campaigned before..I can only hope the genius we've seen, continues on, that he is very aware of every possibility, and has contingency plans to deal with any scenario at the convention.... meanwhile it might help if we stop trying to convince ourselves that "those" people are all republicans, because it's just NOT so......wb

[JuniperLea]

42. This is purely anecdotal... and that's all we've ever really had...

Sorry, I don't buy it. It would be political suicide.

[windbreeze]

47. ????

Purely anecdotal??? excuse me??? LOL...oh, I see, the truth hurts, so it's easier to say you don't believe it(iow, I lie?)...Look, I know what I've witnessed being said and by whom..I said what I did..and I stand by my statements...I trust you have proof that I am NOT telling the truth???

Furthermore, I don't understand your response...political suicide??? for whom?? Did I say Clinton's behind it?? I don't think so....In fact, I will go so far as to apologize if I led anyone to believe that is what I meant....I did say Clinton supporters, and I absolutely stand by that statement...

Personally, I have been hoping and praying that everything would get ironed out long before the convention...and that just about EVERY DEMOCRAT would be on board behind Obama...who IS our "presumptive nominee", after all... but I still don't see that happening...in fact there's so many conflicting stories each day, a person doesn't know what to believe other than what they witness with their own eyes....the infighting sickens me...and makes me wonder why Democrats feel the need to turn on other Democrats like they do...I can't help but wonder, do we really want McCain in office? Do we really not care if we throw away this election, and what should have been a sure thing????..believe what you will, but don't be misled into thinking republicans are the only ones stirring the shit...that is NOT true, and that IS what I was saying... wb

[JuniperLea]

49. Oh, holy cow...

Paranoia does indeed run deep. And your story is purely anecdotal and not indicative of any certain number of people.

The infighting sickens you, yet you post divisive drivel like this. You hope every Democrat comes on board in support of Obama, but you ridicule the very group you hope to bring under that big umbrella.

Brilliant.

[windbreeze]

56. We're getting sidetracked here....sooooo

let's go back to the post I originally responded too...shall we...?? the op stated...and I quote...

"These are not Hillary Clinton supporters, this is RW crap posing as her supporters"

then went on to say...

"Hillary has endorsed Obama and has asked her supporters to vote for him. She has no control over these people and they are clearly not going to do what she has asked them to do. If she were to address them directly, it would give them a legitimacy that they do not deserve."

I stated I know better..and just for the record....I WILL continue to stand by my statement, I will NOT back down...period!!

I don't know what paranoia has to do with anything...it's just a word that doesn't apply, imo....

I've tried talking to the people involved..and found there's a brick wall in place....there is NO middle ground...they see no possible way out except their way and (they've stated) IF it isn't their way they will vote for McCain, not vote at all, or vote for Nader...

The thing is, that usually when a group of people get this blindly determined, and willing to sacrifice anything they have to for a cause...they usually do so because they have an absolute belief that they can change whatever circumstances they are unhappy with...Unfortunately, some situations require more forceful declarations in order to make an impression and bring about an end to the problem....My opinion is, that the proper amount of force hasn't been applied yet....because, according to the OP, one also has to worry giving them legitimacy? I say, do whatever needs to be done to put an end to it..I'm sure your opinion is different....but that's the way it goes, I guess...

As for bringing everyone on board...I will have to leave that challenge for you, since it's abundantly clear that you would be much better at healing the wounds than I ever could be...wb

edited to add:..you and I do NOT see eye to eye, and that's fine with me..there will be no further responses from me

[JuniperLea]

57. Bringing everyone on board would require some people to stop whining about nothing

So stop it.

And I stand by my statement that anecdotal information doesn't cut it. It is not the norm to accept such information here on DU. Never has been.

[PatGund]

50. Yeah, I know the feeling

Another political board I'm on, during the primaries, when the board sponsor was being one of Sen. Clinton's most honorable surrogates on the campaign trail, some people saw it as a sacred duty to drive out the Obama supporters from that blog. After the primaries, when both Sen. Clinton and the board sponsor endorsed Sen. Obama, it got worse, not better. Even after the board sponsor invited Obama supporters back and made it clear his goal was to elect democrats.

There's still a very load, very angry, and very vocal PUMA group at that blog. One who wants to stop at nothing to drive out and squash all positive conversation of Sen. Obama and his supporters.

[windbreeze]

52. Thank you

you know what I'm speaking about...knowing there is cross membership, between that board and the group I spoke of, I just stayed away from the board totally until a couple days ago...I observed mostly and made a couple inconsequential posts...in fact the other day when I visited...a long time poster had taken the time to remind everyone who the board owner's first choice was..(as though that matters at this point)..

I have never, in my life, seen anything like this...I want to understand, and I don't..wb..

[JVS]

45. You're falling victim to the "no true Scotsman" fallacy

[beac]

40. I don't think we'll ever know the answer to that question b/c

Hillary seems disinclined to rein in her rabid fan club.

All the "let's all vote for Barack" speeches don't seem to be getting through to them, so WHY hasn't Hillary been a little more "direct" with these PUMAs and told them to STFU?

:grr:

[THale2]

2. As a former supporter of the Clintons

Hillary will not get my vote if Obama looses...and I hope that the next Dem candidate in the race reminds voters that she is a fair weather Dem...You can count on one hand the number of attacks Clinton and her surrogats have made towards McCain and the Republicans....Fair Weather Dem is my name for that crew...disgraceful...and they wonder why Obama is far behind...no one in the party is raisin cane...why should he be expected to do everything

[donheld]

4. What is Obama gonna "loose?"

[Lilith Velkor]

51. An army of little old ladies with "raisin canes"

driving the Dogs of Democracy. HEE-YAH!!

[tavalon]

8. He's not behind

He's ahead.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

3. I wonder if some of these rabble-rousers are Repukes?

Who would benefit most from disrupting the convention? Who would be willing to pay large amounts of money to show the Dems as a party in disarray? Remember all the Repug congressional staffers that were flown down to Florida during the recount to pound on the door and give the impression of impassioned angry voters demanding the end of the counting?



Here's where you can find their identities:

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/blfloridagopmob.htm

There may be some die-hard Clinton supporters who would rather destroy everything they say Hillary stands for by insuring a President McCain rather than President Obama, but it's the size of the protest that raises a question in my mind.

[lamp_shade]

5. Limbaugh??

[bluerum]

6. I share that suspicion. Well funded rabble rousers.

[mtnester]

53. Better pic for you to keep..

No need to click away, I keep this photo in my bucket account for JUST this purpose at all times:

[Zhade]

9. Obama won FAIR AND SQUARE. Fuck off, you petulant low-info idiots.

NT!

[Bobbieo]

10. They are not low-info idiots - they are Republicans who will lead to te defeat of Obama

and ensure the presidecy of John McCain. It is a very well planned strategy and will work if we don't stop it. So - how do we stop it???

[Tesha]

17. It's too late to stop it.

It could have been stopped, *BY HILLARY*, if she had been willing
to accept, back about Super Tuesday or so, that she was not going
to win this nomination. But she decided to fight on to the bitter end
and thus created the narrative that these Republican disruptors are
now using to great advantage.

And the media *LOVES* this story so I don't think there's any way
to stop it now.

Tesha

[miles 2 go]

27. republicans ARE low info idiots n/t

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[happygoluckytoyou]

18. he won what he needed to win....TO WIN.... those are the rules

[dkf]

11. Howard Dean convinced me to vote for John Kerry.

If Hillary can't do the same for Obama, then that is a reflection of her leadership or lack thereof.

Frankly, I haven't heard anything from Hillary that nears what I heard from Dean. Howard was passionate and convincing, as he is with everything he does. No self-serving behavior there...Howard was always most concerned with what happens to the country.

[Lost4words]

24. Dean would have been a great Pres IMHO!

the media and the DLC killed his chances pretty good.

8643

[demnan]

12. Clinton has to come out now and denounce these groups

I believe she can put an end to it, regardless of who these people really are. I hope she steps up and does just that.

[Bobbieo]

13. If she can't, then all hell will break loose at the convention

and the Dems will come out looking like a bunch of low-class rabble rousers. It has happened before and we lost!!!

[miles 2 go]

28. BUT, BUT, BUT...

she still needs their money to pay off her bills.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[happygoluckytoyou]

19. the real dems will get in line.... the rethugs wont.....anyone backing mccain isnt reading ANYTHING

[still_one]

21. Anyone backing mccain does not care for gender rights, civil rights

healthcare, social security, the supreme court, getting out of Iraq, the economy, education, the environment, and upholding our Constitution

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

22. Once again...

Those groups are heavily infiltrated by Larouchies.

[ryanmuegge]

23. This could be bad for Obama. It may start the "white people aren't allowed to vote for Obama" stuff

again from the MSM. The real, hardcore Hillary supporters may get the white people who didn't vote in the primaries or didn't even care about politics (people who just think they are Hillary supporters, looking for a cause and group identity) to begin thinking that Obama doesn't speak for them because they don't have Ph.Ds and all of the other fake divisions the media created last time.

[book_worm]

26. We need a strong convention, I hope a few unhappy HRC delegates won't ruin it.

[snooper2]

32. And all 42 of them will be banging pots and pans

and get their 5 minutes of fame on CNN...and then go back home and still be miserable :rofl:

[mkultra]

i am curious to see how many there will be

maybe we should start a pool.

[madfloridian]

33. She is still holding fundraisers with these groups. She knows what they saying.

http://www.observer.com/2008/politics/carol-fasano-clinton-still-enemy

[Phx_Dem]

38. Sore fucking losers, all of them. n/t

[Top Cat]

43. Hillary has fueled the fire with her statement to supporters

[JVS]

44. This is exactly why she shouldn't put her name forward.

She's basically tantalizing the fraction of her supporters who are unable to move on and giving them an opportunity to make trouble.

[AlinPA]

46. What it will come down to will be how crazed the media goes over this.

The media will turn it into a spectacle that could hurt us - I'm sure that is their intention.