The Only Division the Clinton Campaign Memo Exposes

[berni_mccoy]

Is the Division between Mark Penn (including his cronies like Wolfson) and the Democratic Party.

Mark Penn took a great politician and destroyed her career. He is the reason she lost. He had the wrong strategy from the outset (winner-take-all approach to state primaries and caucuses), he had the wrong approach to the message and he was completely overpaid at a cost of 2 to 3 million / month.

He was behind all the racially charged tactics; he was the one responsible for the disaster of her campaign.

Mark Penn now seeks to work with the media to build a false division between Clinton and Obama. Is it any wonder? This guy is not a Democrat. He's a union busting, corporate lobbyist who actually has more in common with the Bush Administration than a progressive political campaign.

The Democrats ought to take a serious look at idiots like Penn who claim to be political experts. This guy is nothing but a charlatan.

[FrenchieCat]

1. I'm guessing that the selective memos were leaked by the Clinton Campaign.....

and I'm not impressed.

[Median Democrat]

4. Disagree - Memos Undermine Hillary and Portray Her As Ineffective

I think the memos were leaked by someone affiliated with Mark Penn. The Atlantic article based on "sources" discussed how Hillary ignored Penn's advice regarding how she needed to go negative earlier and harder. Then, Penn was fired and blamed for Hillary's loss.

Well, Atlantic article now paints Hillary as an indecisive leader who is tempermental and avoids the tough decisions whose greatest sin was to ignore the advice of Mark Penn. So, I don't see Hillary being the source of the leak, since she comes out looking terrible. Another interesting note is that Mark Penn published an essay on the effectiveness of negative campaigns on the day the Atlantic article was published.

Coincidence?

Or, is Penn trying to rebuild his reputation by throwing Hillary and Obama under the bus, which helps his other client, Joe Lieberman, and his colleague, Charlie Black's client, John McCain?

Is that a serious conflict of interest? I think it is.

[book_worm]

2. I don't think he is the only reason she lost. I think when she voted for Iraqi intervention that

lost it for her and she never really took back that vote. Obama also appealed to many people. But yes, Penn was of no help to her.

[Bluenorthwest]

6. Too bad she didn't just apolozie

for her war vote. Like Edwards. Lord knows that man's word is bond. It was so easy for him to apologize, wonder why?

[Occam Bandage]

22. She still had a chance to win; she didn't lose by all that much.

[freesqueeze]

3. was it his idea

for her to act as if she'd already won?

Does she have a brain of her own?

At some point all pols have to take blame/credit for their own campaigns (except McCain apparently).

[berni_mccoy]

5. Certainly, she has responsibility as well, but he is the root cause. She trusted his advice.

[FrenchieCat]

7. Which makes her the root cause; she hired him and then trusted his advice.

That's a twofer.

[KittyWampus]

8. Hillary is the reasons Hillary lost. She is either a big grown-up girl capable of managing her team

or not.

[PresidentObama]

9. This will be the first of MANY threads I will alert that rehash the primaries.

Thanks.

[JackORoses]

12. these memos were just released and they do affect the Presidential election

Just because you want to hide your eyes from everything that casts the Clintons in a bad light doesn't mean the rest of us can't see it.

[PresidentObama]

13. Explain to me what they have to do with McCain vs. Obama?

And I don't care if you want to bash the Clintons to high heaven. You pretend I give two shits. All I'm saying it it belongs in General Discussion, not here. Just because some of you can't READ what this forum is meant for...that's not my fault.

[JackORoses]

15. these memos affect the Democratic Party which is just about to hold its Convention

Obama will be the Nominee, but these memos and other Clintonian actions are not serving the cause of Party Unity.
This may have an effect on Voter Turnout in November.

That is why they are relevant.

[PresidentObama]

18. Those memos were from the primaries. The primaries are over.

Clinton is on board, and campaigning for Obama.

And Hillary will be at the Convention, as the keynote speaker.

So why are they relevant? You haven't explained that.

[Median Democrat]

23. Agree With Kerry 2008 Re New Threads On Memos

If there is another take, then just put in in one of the many threads on the subject. I can't imagine that Hillary okayed the release of the memos, because if she was a VP, they would be used against her and Obama. Still think she was betrayed by someone trying to save their rep as a political consultant.

[Beacool]

17. And you work overtime to emphasize anything negative on either Clinton.

Frankly, I don't give a flying fig what Andrew Sullivan's rag has to say about Hillary.

After trashing her for months, he must have smelled more blood in the water.

The one thing we can all agree is that Penn is an SOB who should never be hired to handle another candidate for any position, even dogcatcher.

[Occam Bandage]

21. The memos are a useful look into the inner workings of a political campaign. Grow a thicker skin.

[AtomicKitten]

10. I'm still not entirely clear why these emails are in the public eye right now.

Blame-shifting in an effort to breathe some life into a failed campaign in a last-ditch effort before the convention perhaps?

[Carolina]

11. Penn is to blame?

No, HRC is culpable for HIRING him and rewarding him with ridiculous sums of money to run a losing campaign!

Ready on day one?????

"Democrats ought to take a serious look at idiots like Penn." Again, the idiots are the ones who hire/pay these kind of people!

[Hieronymus]

14. The Clinton's hired Penn ... no one thinks either Bill or Hillary is naive.

[David Zephyr]

16. Mark Penn has walked over too many people and someone is paying him back.

The leaking of this material was not by the Clintons because in the aggregate, it also hurts Hillary.

But, as within any group dynamic, the proportion of abuse is eventually repaid equally and Mark Penn ran roughshod over too many people (Patti Solis Doyle) and his "strategy" also hurt Hillary.

Paybacks are a bitch and Mark Penn deserves all the spotlight he is getting. He is simply vile.

[trudyco]

19. The buck stops with the boss. Could this be about VPstakes? nt

[Occam Bandage]

20. I disagree. There were many divisions in the Clinton camp. Had she been

a stronger executive (ironic, that), she could have kept everyone in their places and cruised to victory.