What is Obama's position on gun control?

[miles 2 go]

Went to the doctor the other day. A discussion of things going bad in America came up. I said "you know how to fix that?"
He says "how?"
I say "vote Obama"
him angrily "I'm not voting for Obama, He'll take away my guns"

me "that's ridiculous. No one is going to take away your guns. THey just want some way to stop the thugs from legally being able to tote them around"

blah blah blah

He considers himself a libertarian these days. But here we have a doctor who is falling for the same old right wing talking points. Take away your guns, kill babies, let gays marry. oh and the new one illegal immigrants.

My other doctor also considers himself a libertarian these days though he used to be republican.


anyway, what is Obama's actual position on guns? I want to be able to hit him with actual facts next time.

[jody]

1. Interesting question because you must find answers to assertions made in the following:

On the Second Amendment, Don’t Believe Obama!

A useful answer to your question must be able to respond to those specific allegations.

In a related post I cited a WSJ piece The New Southern Strategy, Democrats Tap Conservative Candidates in GOP Bastions that includes such things as gun control.

See DU thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6624348&mesg_id=6624348

The only sure way for Obama to erase the perception among voters that he is pro gun-control is to promise voters, "I will veto every bill that comes to me as president that infringes upon the natural, inherent, inalienable right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms for self-defense."

No excuses for past statements, or votes, or association with people/groups that want to ban handguns, semiautomatic firearms, or all guns.

Just a simple, unconditional promise to veto such bills!

[zanne]

2. I also knew you wouldn't vote for a Democrat, jody.

You just outed yourself.

[jody]

3. zanne, I've voted straight Dem for several decades and will do so until I die. Are you stalking me

just to make unfounded allegations?

That seems plausible since your post has nothing to do with my post.

If you have the ability, why don't you parse my post #1 and successfully rebut every statement I made?

Absent that action, can I conclude you have some ulterior motive in your post?

[zanne]

5. Sure. I have nothing better to do than "stalk" jody all day.

:sarcasm: In your post, you stated that you would not vote for Obama unless he met with your conditions re gun control. That means that you will not be voting for a Democratic president. You can twist it around and try to make it look intelligent and wise, but it's still bullshit, jody.

[derby378]

6. Either provide the link or step back, please...

Enough said.

[zanne]

9. Instead of walking in lock-step with other gun "enthusiasts"...

Try thinking for yourself, derby.

[derby378]

11. No link? I knew it...

And please remember that proverb about throwing stones in a glass house before you accuse me of walking in lockstep.

[zanne]

17. You're perfect for the gun forum.

That's all I'm going to say.

[jody]

21. Why do you introduce "the gun forum" as a red herring in a discussion about a divisive,

polarizing issue important enough to be included in the 2008 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL PLATFORM and discussed by our presidential candidate Obama?

Do you think Obama is naive enough to spend time on an issue that is viewed as irrelevant by most voters?

Perhaps it is not Obama and the Democratic party who are naive.

[zanne]

27. Can't let Derby speak for himself, huh?

I wonder why that is.:eyes:

[jody]

29. Why don't you answer yes or no to my question in #10, "Assuming you are pro gun-control, will you

vote for Obama even though he opposes your desire to ban guns?"

[jody]

7. zanne are you reading impaired? I did not say I would not vote for Obama unless he met

conditions re gun control.

You should reread my post again because obviously you didn't understand it the first time.

[zanne]

8. Okay, jody. Here's what you said...

"The only sure way for Obama to erase the perception among voters that he is pro gun-control is to promise voters, "I will veto every bill that comes to me as president that infringes upon the natural, inherent, inalienable right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms for self-defense."

No excuses for past statements, or votes, or association with people/groups that want to ban handguns, semiautomatic firearms, or all guns.

Just a simple, unconditional promise to veto such bills!

We the People have reclaimed the 2nd Amendment, next the 4th, reclaiming rights "



Gee...That sure sounds unconditional to me, jody. You can't pull the old rightwing gasbag trick of stating something, then denying you stated it. Not on DU. Try some other site. The fact is, after having made this statement, there's no way you'll vote for Obama unless he meets these gun-nutty qualifications. Therefore, you won't be voting for the Democratic candidate in November.

[jody]

10. zanne, why do you ignore "among voters"? Obviously I am writing about Obama's position as seen by

voters and not my personal intentions to vote. My position is clear since I'm a Yellow Dog Democrat!

Do you agree with Obama's latest statement“I have always believed that the Second Amendment protects the right of individuals to bear arms . . .”?

Assuming you are pro gun-control, will you vote for Obama even though he opposes your desire to ban guns?

[zanne]

14. Nice try, but you can't undo your statement, jody.

You make the classic mistake of assuming that other people are not quite as intelligent as you are.

[jody]

16. Please post a link to a statement I've made that supports your allegation. If you can't, then your

statement is obviously not true.

[zanne]

18. No, I won't give your denial more than its' due.

You screwed up and you know it. You can't argue your way out of everything. See you later, sparky.

[jody]

22. So your allegation is not true and you cut and run. Have a great day! n/t

[musicblind]

23. Zanne, you are coming off as a bully

She has said she supports Obama, leave it at that.

Why turn this into a witch hunt?

[zanne]

25. You obviously don't spend any time in the gun forum.

It's the original home of bullies. You can't be nice with them.

[krispos42]

30. Yeah, all those facts and stuff

:eyes:

[Paladin]

37. You Want A Gungeon Fact? How About The Fact Of That Poll?

You know the one I'm talking about---the one where 44% of the respondents indicate that they're willing to vote Republican on the guns issue, and another 3% express the charming intention to "sit out the election to spite the Dems."

Talk about confirming a whole bunch of suspicions. I wonder how many of your fellow DU gun militants will be willing to admit that they did in fact cast a vote for John McCain rather than Barack Obama, because guns are ultimately the only thing they really give a shit about?

[krispos42]

39. Haven't seen that one yet

However there's a fairly simple solution:


Drop the gun-ontrol issue, get elected, and lower the crime and poverty rates with our effective, proven liberal values instead of treating it as a hardware problem. Which throws votes to the Repubs and their corportist, Treasury-stealing, Constitution-shredding ways.

[Paladin]

40. "Haven't seen that one yet"?? How Interesting....

It's the poll thread started by hogwyld on January 16, 2008. It's also the thread that I've kicked to the top of the Gun Dungeon queue 16 times, now---the latest kick just now, for your benefit, because if you "haven't seen that one yet," it's obvious that you don't spend very much time down in the Gungeon (snicker).

I'll continue to kick this poll as often as I deem it necessary, through the election, if possible. I just don't think that Democrat-trashing, one-issue extremists should be let off the hook when they fuck up and express their honest beliefs and intentions. Real-World D.U. members deserve nothing less.....

[krispos42]

41. Ah, a DU poll

Okay, gotcha. I was thinking some sort of national, Gallop-style poll.

Yeah, I voted in it when it first came out and haven't worried about it since. You'll note that I never posted in the thread.

I'm not a one-issue voter, and my dissenting voice is much more effective when I focus on the few differences I have with the basic Democratic party platform than on the many differences I have with the Republicans.

[Irreverend IX]

43. You mean the poll where you and all your buddies clicked "I'd vote for the rethuglican?"

So convenient that those polls don't list voters' names.

[leftynyc]

45. He/She is actually coming

off like an asshole.

[Carrieyazel]

4. Very strict gun control positions throughout his career.

Supported:

1. Banning most handguns

2. Banning semi-automatics

3. Registration of firearms with a local law enforcement agency and photo licensing for all those who purchase certain firearms.

In short, Obama won't take away anyone's guns, but he would regulate new purchases very strictly.
Very similar to Al Gore's positions in 2000.

[miles 2 go]

12. thanks

for answering my questions

[derby378]

13. Obama won't take your guns - that's Dianne Feinstein's job

:evilgrin:

[zanne]

15. Any more Democrats you want to crush, derby?

Whose side are you on, anyway?

[Otto DeFay]

24. Any more Republicans you want to elect ?

Because you are sure doing a good job of it.
Brilliant, encourage the party to adopt a position:

-promulgated by the Republican Brady Bunch, that

-disenfranchises minorities (gun control was originally a southern white program to make sure those uppity blacks couldn't defend themselves from Jim Crow, Plus Reagan instituted gun control in California in reaction to the Black Panthers brandishing)

-and costs us Democrats elections in crucial swing states. Often among pro union voters who would easily support Democratic candidates if not for knee jerk gun grabbers of the ignorant sort who consider a mini 14 an 'assault rifle'.

I wonder whose side some people are really on.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[derby378]

31. zanne once told me...

...that the two of us are more alike than different; it is the gun issue that we butt heads over. On this point, I believe her.

But each of us still has to make a choice. And I have chosen to go down the more difficult path - namely, the path of the progressive Democrat who affirms our Second Amendment rights and works to preserve them.

Just because I'm casting my vote for Obama doesn't mean that I cannot continue to be the change I want to see in my party. So if we want healthcare, education, and troops out of Iraq, the solution is clear to me - hands off our guns.

[leftynyc]

46. How many more elections

are you willing to lose on this issue? We have a gun culture in this country. You don't like it, tough shit. This issue has killed the Democrats for decades and I'm sick of it.

[krispos42]

20. Which is not surprising, considering his district and electorate

However, his votes and positions were on a local level, not national. I would expect that even a frothing pro-gun Representative to represent his or her district, and if the district was anti-gun, well, then, that pro-gun person would have to come up with some way to represent that.

[vinylsolution]

19. Amazing how Republicans always swallow the line....

... that a Democrat President will take away their precious guns.

So I always ask them: "Did you get all of the guns back that Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter took away from you?"

Seeing their faces after they think about that one is priceless....

[miles 2 go]

35. that's a good answer

I'll try using that if it comes up again

[krispos42]

28. Obama will not take away people's guns

That is too strong, too direct.

No, there would be graduations in the policy, steps to be taken. If we assume that the ultimate goal of the anti-gun movement is virtually complete disarmament of the American citizenry, then how it would probably go is by banning sales of new types of firearms but grandfathering in the existing ones.

Then legislate that those grandfathered firearms are only legal if registered.

Then, later on, prohibit those grandfathered firearms from being passed to anybody but the government or a person with certain type of ATF permit.

Rinse and repeat with different kinds of firearms.


For example, let's say the anti-gun movement bans the sale of new semi-automatic rifles nationwide. To fight crime and terrorism, of course. And they make sure they call them really nasty, perjorative names like "assault weapons", "deadly assault weapons", or "weapons of mass destruction", and make it seem that only the truly crazy and dangerous people would even want to touch them. Then that would largely freeze the population of semi-automatic rifles in the country.

Then the new Congress comes in, and now owners of existing semi-auto rifles/terrorist assault weapons have to register them by a certain date. To fight crime and terrorism, of course.

Then we get another new Congress, and now you can't sell or give a registered semi-auto rifle/deadly baby-killing slaughter machine to anybody anymore except the state police or the BATFE. Not even in your last will and testament as an inheiretence. Once you don't want the gun any more, or you die, it goes to the government.

Then as time goes on, the population of semi-auto rifles/embodiments of Satan steadily declines until 80 years from now, they're all gone.

At least in theory.

And at some point, similiar acts apply to other guns, like handguns, semi-auto shotguns, lever-action rifle, bolt-action rifles, etc.



This is how it would be accomoplished, if it was to be accomplished at all. A multi-election, multi-decade strategy.




My suggestion to your doctor would be this: would he rather vote for a Democrat, then focus all of his energy, time, and money keeping them from doing something stupid like a new ban on cosmetic features, or vote for a Republican and spread that energy, time, and money on a dozen different topics?

Which does he think will be more effective?

[Paladin]

38. Sweet Baby Jeezus! Can't The Supreme Court Step In And Save Us From Such A Fate?

Oh, wait...never mind.

Enjoy casting your vote for Obama, awright?

[ContinentalOp]

32. I think it's time for a new doctor.

There's no way I would feel comfortable with a Libertarian doctor. Something about the combination of gun ownership and "do no harm" kind of rubs me the wrong way too.

[miles 2 go]

36. I think he's mostly a hunter.

I love him though. He came to see me 3 times at least while I was in a coma and out of my gourd. He wasn't my doctor as I was being treated by specialist who trumped him. He didn't get paid for the visits or anything. He's been with us for about 15 years. He has the best bedside manner and is loved by the nurses and patients.

I'll keep him. I might let him go on this one if the libertarian is on the ticket in Indy. (I know I should know but I don't) As long as he votes libertarian and not repug, well that takes away from the repugs. Now for my specialist. I've got him down to Libertarian from staunch shrub supporter. (well, probably more like the repugs have got him down to that more than me) But he has at least recognized that there is more government now than ever before and he is against the big govt. It's a step.

[wvbygod]

33. Hopefully he will denounce his past voting to disarm law abiding citizens

It would help him gain some votes from those that will never vote for those trying to disarm them.

[derby378]

34. E-mail the DNCC Platform Committee and let them know what you think

Until the convention begins in Denver, the draft platform is only a draft. Good luck!

[e-mail]

[old mark]

42. Thanks, Derby. I just emailed the DNC to change

the stupid position on the "assault weapons" ban as well as the so-called "gun show loophole".Both positons come from the lies of the anti-gun organizations, and I appreciate the chance to communicate to the DNC you gave my by providing that link.

mark

[TexasObserver]

44. Obama will never get any backing from any GUN people who put that issue first

The NRA and the gun manufacturers and sellers will always favor the GOP, and it's not just because of gun control. It's liability for gun accidents and incidents. It's their generally conservative bent.

I respect the second amendment rights Americans have, but it's not an unfettered right, and it can be subject to controls, the same as speech and protest and the amendment against self incrimination. All rights have been shaped and limited over time, and none are absolutes.