NPR just put up a comment at the Denver Group ad accusing Dean of unfairness.

[madfloridian]

Isn't it amazing how that happens? Criticize a Democratic leader and the media is all over you for an interview. Attack the party chairman who has to remain silent and not defend himself....and you get NPR knocking at the door of your website.

Here is the link to the ad that was place in FL and MI papers yesterday. It accuses Howard Dean of not being impartial or objective, now or in the primaries.

Dean attack ad

Here is what the ad says in the first paragraph under a picture of Dean and Clinton.

"Howard Dean as chairman of the DNC is supposed to be both impartial and objective. The feeling of most of Senator Clinton's 18 million voters is he was not. They believe he was not during the primaries and they believe he hasn't been since."

Here is the comment from the NPR person.

Hello,
My name is Jasmine Garsd and i’m contacting you from National Public Radio’s “Tell Me More” . We are doing a show on Monday morning about bloggers on different side of the political spectrum, and the question is “Why do you think Hillary Clinton should or should not receive a nomination.” We are also interested in talking to a blogger who is associated or endorses Party Unity My Ass.

If you are interested you may contact me at [e-mail]

That comment is right under the ad condemning the actions of the Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean...who can not defend himself.

Ain't it amazing? And yeh, I am pissed. The Clintons could stop this.

[madfloridian]

1. I found a very good site to counter this. It doesn't get NPR knocking on the door.

Yes to Democracy No to Puma

[DJ13]

3. Excellent link, thank you!

:thumbsup:

[madfloridian]

5. Isn't that a great site. But it doesn't get major media knocking.

So we have to give them some love.

[DJ13]

6. Very good

Read the Proof Against PUMA

* Democratsformccain.com run by a registered republican.
* PUMA founded by Republicans.
* More PUMA Proof: registered in Red States.
* PUMA founder contributes more money to McCain than Clinton!
* ClintonsforMcCain.com launched by RNC.
* PUMA in bed with Free Republic.
* John McCain has SAME registrar info as PUMA.

[madfloridian]

7. I agree mostly....but the attacks on the chairman require leadership stepping in .

That is the bottom line. He can not defend himself on this. Someone needs to do it for him.

It is angering me so much.

[demokatgurrl]

43. Why can he not defend himself?

He had no problem doing so in the past. If anyone can be partisan and attacking, it's a party chairman.

[madfloridian]

44. The DNC has become part of the Obama campaign.

I doubt we will even see him on TV without talking points.

He can not speak out in his own defense right now.

He is being accused by these people of throwing the primary.

Why isn't someone speaking out about it?

Actually I can tell you why...because Bill Clinton said the same thing during the primaries.

So now we hear crickets chirping.

[madfloridian]

9. Another good blogger link.

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/08/09/puma-gets-scary/

[PatGund]

31. Thank you!

One of the articles I wrote there actually touched ON "The Denver Group"

http://www.yestodemocracy.com/yes_to_democracy_no_to_pu/2008/07/so-the-primarie.html

One of the ones I'm happiest with is "Are YOU one of the 400" - i.e. the 400 paid bloggers that the PUMA groups insist Sen. Obama has.

http://www.yestodemocracy.com/yes_to_democracy_no_to_pu/2008/08/are-you-one-of.html

[madfloridian]

32. Absolutely fantastic posts!! And thanks for linking to Betty Cracker.

http://bettycracker.blogspot.com/

I love that blog.

[Number23]

57. Holy crap!

Did you see this????

http://yestodemocracy.typepad.com/yes_to_democracy_no_to_pu/2008/06/puma-founder--1.html">PUMA founder contributes more money to McCain than Clinton!

Says it all...

[madfloridian]

73. Puma in bed with Free Republic....says it more.

http://yestodemocracy.typepad.com/yes_to_democracy_no_to_pu/2008/07/puma-in-bed-w-1.html

But as long as Hillary's picture and name are used by them they will get humongous media attention.

The media loves people who hate Democrats.

[Faygo Kid]

2. Uh-oh. Here they come.

Good luck.

The tag teamers ain't gonna like this.

Off to bed now. Check back in the morning.

:hi:

[madfloridian]

15. I think there is no way to defend an ad like that.

I think they know it.

It is beyond pathetic.

[mucifer]

4. I've noticed that nationally NPR's news is crap.

But, locally in Chicago our station wbez.org has some amazing shows with leftwing slants. Check out "World View" and "This American Life".

[madfloridian]

12. I don't listen...but how odd NPR makes contact by leaving a comment on a messsage board.

It's really strange.

[Moochy]

62. The important distinction here is that neither shows are controlled by NPR goons

NPR's national flagship shows are infested by the neocon scum that Tomlinson hired during his tenure.(Ex Voice of America chief)
These right-wing producers and announcers are on the same page when it comes to reading verbatim whatever the white house or pentagon publish. It's either push these right-wing views or Big bird gets more electroshock in a dark prison in bucharest. :yoiks:

This American Life & World View are put out by Chicago Public Radio. I love This American Life.

Also check out PRI's shows for a slightly less right-wing bias on the news.

I highly recommend this blog, he listens to NPR so you don't have to!

http://nprcheck.blogspot.com/

[ClassWarrior]

8. The Corporate Media kissing the ass of a Rape-Publican group?

~gasp!!~

NGU.

[sniffa]

10. I'm amazed by Dean's restraint

He was portrayed as a maniac in 2004.

I know he's still a fighter, but is not fighting back, as the DNC head should.

God bless Howard. :patriot:

[madfloridian]

11. Right, he just can't. He has to take it.

:hi:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

13. Clinton had a majority on the credentials committee. End of story.

[Arnold Judas Rimmer]

14. Why would the Clintons stop this?

The DLC has attacked Howard Dean constantly since 2003. Who would expect them to stop now?

[Fleshdancer]

16. I'm still confused by this. What exactly was Dean suppose to do?

and what did he do to make people think he was somehow favoring Obama?

[madfloridian]

17. Followed the rules about delegates. It is all just made up stuff.

Trouble is that they are just following the themes the Clintons themselves used during the primaries.

It's sad really.

[Fleshdancer]

19. The delegate mess started long before FL and MI voted, right?

would Dean be considered bias if those states went to Obama instead? Didn't the party come together to hash this out and agree on giving both states half-votes or did I dream all that up?

Ugh. I can't believe this is still an issue and I can't believe people are attempting to smear Dean for this crap. How hard does one man have to work for the party to keep from being its whipping boy?

Once upon a time I was happy I stayed away from the Primary mess, but now it seems like there's no escape.

[madfloridian]

21. The rules were in place well before the primary. FL and MI broke them

for their own desires to have power. THEN...sadly or coincidentally...the Clintons used those two states as tools.

It put this unreasonable anger into play, and it just won't quit.

That ad against Dean should have someone in the party looking into it pronto to see if it is libel.

[madfloridian]

18. Has NPR contacted anyone here for interviews? LOL

Hilarious...they post a comment in the blog asking for an interview.

Pathetic...hilarious. That's our media.

[Jakes Progress]

20. Oh my god. You mean they

want to talk to people on both sides of the spectrum? What kind of crappy journalism looks at both sides of an issue? They've got a lot of nerve, those commies.

[madfloridian]

22. Whatever you say.

[Metric System]

23. "The Clintons could stop this." Really? Can Obama stop his nasty supporters who post on DU?

[madfloridian]

24. You are way out of line on that statement. You are attacking everyone

who tells the truth about what is going on.

[Metric System]

26. Wow, unbelievable. You do realize that the PUMAs believe they speak the truth too, right? Tell me

again how posters like you are much different? You know, there is a difference between truth and opinion. What you spout is opinion, as there are many people who disagree with your comments.

[madfloridian]

27. You are saying I spout opinion....and PUMAS speak truth???

Is that what you are saying?

You really get defensive about them.

Do you think Dean was unfair and threw the primary?

[Metric System]

28. Huh? I said PUMAs BELIEVE they speak truth, I didn't say they did. My comment was a repudiation of

that kind of thinking.

[Jakes Progress]

29. Give it up.

Some people see their path as the only path. Their logic as divined. They will twist what you say and purposefully misstate your premise. They see understanding another's point of view as a weakness. Sort of like a president who believes he is right and that no other opinion can be considered.

[madfloridian]

30. Do you agree that the ad against Dean is shameful?

Or would you rather try to attack me for telling the truth....that the Pumas are using Dean as their target and declaring the primary not valid.

:shrug:

Some of you talk of some of us as though we are not here. :eyes:

[Jakes Progress]

50. Your question here has nothing to do

with your OP. In the OP you wanted to tie NPR to the PUMA movement because the link you gave showed a response from NPR that sought input for a story about the conflict. You were guilty of doing the same thing the ad was doing - manipulating the facts to create a little drama. This particular thread dealt with your whining insistence that you are the only one who has the right to determine truth, that everyone who disagrees with you tells lies. Yes, some of us talk about some of you who take comments too personally, who seek affirmation from all sides, as though your weren't listening. I was just letting the poster you went off on know that if he/she wanted to continue here, it was a lost cause. The post that you started off on this tangent with only said that the people who disagree with you also think they have the truth. The post didn't say which side was "true", but refuted your contention that they knew they were not telling the truth.

In this instance, truth lies where it usually does - somewhere between the two extremes.

[madfloridian]

51. The post was about media giving credence to an ad accusing Dean of throwing the primary.

It appears to me that you give credence to that as well.

I think it is shameful that no one is standing up and yelling here and saying enough is enough.

They are using Hillary Clinton to smear the party leaders.

To me there is no inbetween. The NPR interview link today showed they gave two of these groups great respect and credibility.

You appear to think they have credibility as well.

This is a Democratic forum, and I am being treated as suspect for saying that these folks should NOT be accusing the chairman of throwing the primary.

[Jakes Progress]

53. Don't know why I try,

but here goes again.

It's not about you. You are not being treated any way. We are responding to ideas. You continually miss the idea that is being discussed. You say you are being accused, but then you start accusations of your own that do not reflect the words written.

What media? "the media" is a big topic. Do you mean that NPR has become a part of the neocon game plan? Asking for a representative to speak their side is not giving credence. Is it giving credence every time they broadcast the presidential addresses? Since bush is full of bullshit and lies, would you have "the media" not cover any of his press conferences? This is what people talk about when they say you act as though no one but you has any right to say what they think. If I defend their right to think or speak, it is not the same as agreeing with them. Your passions and your fervor are over the top and lack focus. Does nothing that bush or msccain does bother you? You blast other democrats. You spent a lot of time blasting Obama, but seem to have decided to just let that go. Don't take disagreement so personally. You could read someone's statement and try to understand their point, but you don't have to. You can just go ahead and keep twisting the posts to your current diatribe like saying that I give credence where I certainly have not done so. Just because I point out flaws in your argument, you attack me and accuse me of things I didn't say.

As far as why "no one" is standing up and yelling, maybe they are wiser. Why give this stuff more press? Why stir up the primary all over again. Hillary and Obama are grown up politicians. Both did nasty things in the primary. Now they are working together. Is it so important that everyone share your deep seated anger over the fact that Hillary Clinton exists that you would prefer to keep dragging up those wounds and opening those scars until we bleed voters that we are going to need? Is your "purity" more important than putting a Democrat in the white house.

Are you shocked that party leaders are being smeared? Is politics a new thing for you? Have you ever been involved in a campaign before? Hillary Clinton is a party leader and you have done your share of smearing. Barack Obama is our chosen party candidate, and you have attacked him. A lot can be taken from your statement that there is no in between. That is a very childish and naive view of the world and not one that your party's candidate would agree with. The in between is what he campaigns on.

Not everyone is out to get you. Go after the bad guys before you go after the guys you just don't like very much.

[madfloridian]

54. This is not about me, you know it....You seem to feel a need to put others down.

If it makes you feel better, then go ahead. That's pretty much par for the course here now. I see that a lot in this forum. Some people feel insecure, and they try to make others feel bad. It does not work on me, not any more.

No, I only criticized Obama really on FISA. I do not go around "trashing" him. Anyone reading my posts would know that was a lie. I think Obama is an amazing candidate who has kept his cool through stupid attacks.

I think the Clintons are trying to make the convention about them, and he may be giving in to them too much. But that is not really an attack, just a concern.

The Clintons could stop the attacks and the dangerous stalking of Howard Dean, but they will not.

[Jakes Progress]

67. Hello Wall

How things go for you today.

- Faron Young

[joshcryer]

69. Your 'truth' is innuendo, you *imply* that the Clintons want these people to do it, because they...

..."don't stop it."

What else is the conclusion to be made by your divisive OP?

You *believe* that "The Clintons" are behind all of this crap. And you know it.

[madfloridian]

70. Yes, I think they know about it and are not stopping it.

.

[Moochy]

63. Ooh I missed one

[madfloridian]

25. I see too much justification for this ad.

Here at DU people are justifying an ad that accuses the chairman openly of throwing the primaries.

Most sites would consider that libel.

And NPR lowering itself to give such an ad publicity on the air.

[madfloridian]

33. In another post they accuse Dean of trying to shut down the convention.

Unbelievable.

http://pumaalliance.wordpress.com/2008/06/13/howard-dean-schemes-to-shut-down-democratic-convention/

It is just made up stuff masquerading as stupid stuff.

:puke:

[AtomicKitten]

34. The core of their resistance is predicated on bullshit.

The ANTI-Obama Democrats have a distorted view of what actually transpired during the primary because the Clintons played the VICTIM card when they realized the nomination had slipped through their fingers.

Hillary is triangulating at this point, assuring the party that she's on board and that she doesn't want her name in nomination, at the same time hinting at quite the opposite to her more, um, ardent supporters in private (hooray for youtube!).

The reindeer games are in full swing as time is running out before the convention. It's pretty clear the Clintons are orchestrating a power play with the prime objective being overturning the nomination and, if that fails, to try to force her on the ticket as VP.

It's a shame that Howard Dean is subjected to this intraparty bullshit. He's done an amazing job setting up the infrastructure for a 50-state sweep.

[madfloridian]

36. Great comment.

And may I say...well said.

:applause:

[Mme. Defarge]

45. I TOTALLY concur!

I just hope and pray that you, and others who say that Obama is on top of this situation, are right.

[CreekDog]

35. Dean doesn't have the power to do what they accuse him of

it was a decision of the DNC. if they don't like it they can elect a new one.

[madfloridian]

37. NPR gave them such legitimacy. Link.

http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=93493465&m=93493460

[theantipuma]

38. Email Jasmine

Everyone- email jasmine. Tell them you want us on the air! She will email you back. We have her email.
[e-mail]

Be nice about it- but tell her how you feel. We already have others emailing away.


NPR made PUMA sound like a legit organization when they are ANYTHING but. We need to get the truth about it out there.

[madfloridian]

39. Giving legitimacy to a group which accuses Dean and Obama...

of making Pumas disappear. This is sad stuff.


How about this group on the air?

http://www.yestodemocracy.com/yes_to_democracy_no_to_pu/2008/08/why-is-puma-spr.html

I listened to the audio, and I felt sick.

This is the same bunch who in their post last night accused Dean and Obama of causing a puma to disappear. It is ugly stuff.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=132&topic_id=6616182&mesg_id=6619257

[theantipuma]

40. Exactly.

Exactly.
I am the creator of yestodemocracy and I agree. We SHOULD go on air and let people know the TRUTH. there is no reason why NPR shouldn't be offering objective and VALID opinions when it comes to this organization.

I hope you emailed this to Jasmine- she seems like a nice lady- maybe she will give us a hand.

[madfloridian]

41. It's a good site.

Deserves some attention as well.

Keep up the good work.

[Mme. Defarge]

46. Self-delete

[ieoeja]

42. The DNC Chairman puts NOBODY's name in for nomination.

The nominees sign and submit a petition signed by a minimum number of delegates. Howard Dean could hate and despise you, be secretly planning your assassination, and you'd still be nominated because ... IT ISN'T HIS FUCKING DECISION!!!

Everything about the manner in which PUMA proceeds screams "Republican". They get free media like Republics instead of having to pay for it like Democrats. Every member of PUMA echos the same talking point as every other PUMA just like Republics do and Democrats don't. And they, like Republics, just pretend facts like the above do not exist instead of arguing against them like Democrats.

If the PUMAs are not 99% Republic, then they have sure done a good job of faking it.

[madfloridian]

47. Nor did Dean or Obama try to harm a Puma...read this awful accusation

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6616182&mesg_id=6619257

[ieoeja]

48. And did I mention they "write" like Republics?

"they are trying to make us as unpopular as Michael Moore"


Odd thing for a Democrat to write. Michael Moore is a media Robin Hood in our circles. Of course, he is *highly* unpopular in GOP circles. So were this a rightist pretending to be a Democrat, then this is exactly the sort of mistake you'd expect from someone trying to fake it.


Addendum: I wrote the above before reading down thread over there. Obviously I am not the only one who noticed this mistake.

[madfloridian]

49. Trouble is....

Many of them were in the fundraiser where Hillary made the "catharsis" comments. It was a $500 fundraiser for Hillary's debt.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/2461

Many of them are her supporters...they are using her as their symbol with her photos all over their websites.

The website,The Hill, is going to take their ads...how about that?

[PatGund]

59. The PUMA cult of martyrdom

ttp://www.yestodemocracy.com/yes_to_democracy_no_to_pu/2008/08/note-to-pumas-.html

[madfloridian]

66. I added this great post at the end with the link...got lost in the middle of the thread.

Thanks.

[Radical Activist]

52. This just shows how much the media helped Hillary drag this out.

If she had been anybody else, like Kucinich, she would have been ignored long before she dropped out.
And Dean isn't supposed to be impartial anymore. He's supposed to help the NOMINEE!

[madfloridian]

55. Exactly right.

Kucinich has been right so many times...and ignored.

[DemBones DemBones]

56. If NPR is endorsing the Denver Group, then YOU must be endorsing

"The Next Berkshire Hathaway" since that ad appears within your OP.


At least that's the ad now appearing there. Ads sometimes change from time to time but that is what you are "endorsing" right now, mf.


Are you really endorsing "The Next Berkshire Hathaway"? Or GrovelBot who "posted" at the end of your thread? Or whatever other ads are on the page now? Of course you are not. They are ads that make money for Skinner and you have no control over where they are placed.


Use some common sense here. NPR was NOT endorsing any group and NPR was NOT accusing Dean of unfairness. The woman from NPR wanted to connect to bloggers so she placed ads in many blogs, representing different opinions. Can you think of a better way to connect with bloggers?

She did NOT choose the ad placement at any site, just as you do not choose ad placement at DU.



Reading Is Fundamental.


Read her second sentence again slowly: We are doing a show on Monday morning about bloggers on different sides of the political spectrum, and the question is “Why do you think Hillary Clinton should or should not receive a nomination.”


YOU could have contacted her and been on the show!!! Anybody could have! SHE WANTED DIFFERENT SIDES OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM. SHE WANTED PEOPLE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION "WHY DO YOU THINK HILLARY CLINTON SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT RECEIVE A NOMINATION?"


But you apparently freaked out over the next sentence "We are also interested in talking to a blogger who is associated or endorses Party Unity My Ass," which was probably included because PUMAs are elusive creatures. No, seriously, she wanted Dems who don't support Obama to know they were welcome, too. But she obviously would have preferred people to take opposite sides on the question.


Evidently, PUMAs were the only ones who replied to the ad or perhaps the only ones who replied who spoke well enough to be on the air.
I'd assume they only want people who can speak well for interviews and some perfectly intelligent people freeze or ramble if they are on radio or in any public speaking situation.

The interview ended up being with two well-spoken female PUMAs, one white, one black, but the ad definitely did not ask for PUMAs only.

[JTFrog]

60. WTF?

"Evidently, PUMAs were the only ones who replied to the ad or perhaps the only ones who replied who spoke well enough to be on the air."

Yeah we'll take your word for it that no one else worthy responded because it's so fucking evident. :eyes:

The "obvious" and "evident" in your posts PROBABLY only apply to the cognitive dissonant.


I think I just threw up a little in my mouth after reading this.

[madfloridian]

68. Do you know what ad he refers to? I have never seen an ad in any post.

?

[madfloridian]

64. An ad appears within my post? I have never seen an ad in anyone's post??

I have no idea what you are ranting about.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

58. What exactly is your agenda here for druging all this old primary stuff up?

Seriously.

I've had enough of your BS. I bit my tongue time and time again as time after time during the primaries you continued to argue against the interests of voters of the state you live in, including myself. Your self-flagellation, out of what I can only assume is an unending love for all things you think represent the DNC or Howard Dean or whoever, has grown old. It is beyond the time to rip open the old wounds of the primary season when we have a general election to win.

I really don't care if your blog has 10 million subscriptions and they all come after me with great vengence and furious anger for saying this, and demand for my tombstoming. I have had enough of you and your schtick.

To paraphrase Natalie Maines of the Dixie Chicks, I'm ashamed you are from Florida.

Rant. Off.

[theantipuma]

61. it never went away.

You can't call something "old" when it hasn't even begun to cool yet. It's the progressive blogosphere that has chosen to ignore it in hopes that it will go away when we should be dealing with this kind of idiocy head on. Look at what happens when you ignore it. They put ads in newspapers, go on television, NPR, and morning talk shows.

You rather us not speak about it?

If you don't like reading these things- then don't read them. It's a choice. But don't pretend like this is the ops fault when he is just talking about something VERY MUCH real and very much happening, regardless of his threads or not.

[madfloridian]

72. Thanks, no, it is not old.

It is something that is regenerating daily on the make believe pretense that Dean threw the primaries to Obama.

It does need attention.

[madfloridian]

65. A good sensible post that needs to be read. A much needed website.

http://www.yestodemocracy.com/yes_to_democracy_no_to_pu/2008/08/note-to-pumas-.html

[madfloridian]

71. A couple of other blogs that deserve some hits.

On a blog search these guys need to come up ahead of the Puma sites which are dominating the google search. Just a few, but good ones.

http://pumacentral.blogspot.com/2008/06/puma-terminology.html

http://www.reason.com/blog/show/128025.html

http://www.yestodemocracy.com/yes_to_democracy_no_to_pu/2008/08/note-to-pumas-.html

The latter addresses the blame they put on Dean and Obama for making a puma disappear.

I don't how else to get hits to blogs that need them.