Wow, who would have thought we had world-class political strategists on this board?

[GarbagemanLB]

It seems like everyone here whining over Obama not ripping into McCain thinks think they know more about the situation than the brains who brought about a come-from-behind victory over the Clinton juggernaut in the primaries.

Plouffe, Axelrod, et all are not idiots, and they know the situation and how best to act.

Please return to your 'THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!' posts.

Thanks.

[Hansel]

1. Amen! nt

[babylonsister]

2. Yea, who knew?

:P I'm keeping the faith!

[Booster]

3. Seems you've forgotten what happend to John Kerry.

[GarbagemanLB]

4. Oh, I'm sure the heads of the Obama campaign are completely ignorant of the past and are just

acting by throwing darts at a dart-board. You got me.

[emilyg]

24. Any campaign can make bad decisions

Just look at Hillary's campaign.

[hedgehog]

7. I watched John Kerry back in 2004, I may not have known him but I saw

how he campaigned, and believe me, Obama is no John Kerry!

[politicasista]

40. No he isn't but at least Obama shows more respect.......

for Kerry than people here have. And Obama knows who had (has) his back when it's mattered.

[nomaco-10]

13. JK waited too long to address the attacks thrown ...

at him. Obama addresses them IMMEDIATELY with class, facts and wit. The JK/Obama comparison doesn't carry alot of weight with me.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

17. Seems you forget what happened to Hillary

Obama beat her, using the same strategies he's using today. If it ain't broke...

[Hippo_Tron]

46. The ads attacking John Kerry were real attacks

McThesulah's ads are a joke. Calling him Britney Spears and Paris Hilton isn't going to denigrate his character or do anything but maybe convince a few rednecks to actually turn out and vote against him.

When they start accusing him of having ties to Hamas, and all of that other bullshit, is when he will need to respond quickly and with overwhelming force. But right now it's still silly season.

[WeDidIt]

5. Everybody wants Obama to take the bait

There's a big difference between 527 attacks and the attacks of the opposition campaign.

People seem to forget that.

[Whisp]

9. Obama not taking the bait is what will destroy McCain't.

consistency is everything.

[GarbagemanLB]

10. Going this negative this early must mean desperation on the McCain camp's part, and Obama's

team sees it that way too, I believe. Already people in the media and the GOP itself are raising concerns with how this will hurt McCain's image in the months to come.

In any event, I will trust the people who did so well in the Democratic primaries.

[KittyWampus]

11. No, I want him to take advantage of a golden opportunity when it happens. To not do so is idiotic

[WeDidIt]

15. Attacking McCain now would be idiotic

IT plays right into what negative ads from a campaign are designed to do.

[KittyWampus]

21. no, actually. Standing up for yourself AND the troops in Germany would have made Obama shine

and hit McCain's strength

[slinkerwink]

57. exactly.

[Cha]

6. We have some pretty good ones and

they're the positive ones. Here's just a couple of examples..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6573678

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6571938

Edit~ Or 3 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6573927

[KittyWampus]

8. Any fool could see the golden opportunity McCain gave Obama to kick his fucking ass.

That Obama's team failed utterly to take advantage of something that would damage McCain on his perceived strength in foreign policy and military is inexcusable.

My problem are the DU'ers who are now apologists for tactics that lost Kerry the Election.

All the sudden, many DU'ers think it's a good thing McCain is defining Obama, that Obama is saving his warchest.

[GarbagemanLB]

14. Does Axelrod call you often for your advice?

[mopinko]

38. chill out sweetie. they ain't gonna sully the brand.

getting into a pissing contest is just not what obama does. nothing justifies an attack like hitting back with the same.
i know how you feel. it took me a while to get over wanting someone to do that. brand obama is built on cool, and dusting the mud off his shoulders. i think that they have played it just right. he does much more by laughing at them.
trust these guys. they know what they are doing. mudwrestling is not the road to the whitehouse.

[ruggerson]

12. "the clinton juggernaut"

lol

[GarbagemanLB]

16. How many SDs did she have before a single primary/caucus took place?

How many did Obama have?

How many governors supported Hillary? How many for Obama?

How much money did Hillary raise in the months leading up to the first primary? How much did Obama?

How many media members implied she was inevitable? How many did so for Obama, before a single primary?

Yeah, I think it's safe to say she had a powerful machine on her side.

[ruggerson]

19. Read up on the history of Democratic primaries

More often than not, the perceived frontrunner, anointed by the media before votes are even cast, loses the nomination.

She lost the very first caucus, remember? Everything before then was hype and money.

[cliffordu]

37. Yep - they dismantled that whole world class team.

[TexasObserver]

18. I've made that mistake before, assuming our candidate had it under control.

When I was a young lawyer, we didn't have at the ready photo copies of cases. Copy machines were becoming available, but they were big, slow, and produced lousy copies. We used the actual Reporters, bound volumes, containing the case law. If you had to argue some point of law, you'd take 5-10 volumes with you to the courthouse to argue some motion on some law point.

There's Monday docket call, where the judge hears his regular Monday morning docket. There are usually dozens of motions in dozens of cases pending, so you end up waiting until your turn, and listening to other lawyers argue their motions to the court.

So one Monday morning, I was waiting and watching. A wizened old lawyer had a dolly cart with about 30 law volumes stacked up on it, and as he prepared to argue his motions, he stacked them on the counsel table. The judge attempted to short circuit this process by saying "Mr. Wellborn, what do you intend to do with all those books?" Mr. Wellborn replied "judge, I intend to show you the law."

The judge responded: "Mr. Wellborn, you may assume that the court knows the law." Mr. Wellborn replied "your honor, I've made that mistake before."

[woolldog]

58. haha great story!

[TexasObserver]

61. Thanks.

I ought to send that one to the state Bar. They print little stories of lawyers and judges every month about silly things, or funny things, that happen in court proceedings.

I think Obama is sharp, and I have great faith in his thinking, but I really do think he needs to sharpen the message to reach voters who can't be sold without greater simplicity and detail.

[nomaco-10]

20. Anybody here that has been keeping up with...

Obama's town hall meetings and stump speeches during the day as of the last few weeks (I know many of you work and have other obligations and can't sit and watch live streams or 24/7 c-span or cable/network news coverage) need to know he has been on fire, he has found his groove!

He's not that sometimes hesitant, awkward speaker he was in the beginning. BE PATIENT. He is gonna knock it out of the park at the convention and then clean up the floor with mccain in the debates.

Trust him and his campaign for just a little bit longer. They got us this far, they will get us in the whitehouse. Have some faith.

[gblady]

25. so true....

I wish folks had a chance to hear his town meetings...he is not taking anything laying down...
he's just doing it with style, grace, and wit. He speaks to the latest GOP tricks every day.

[nomaco-10]

32. Obama is showing remarkable restraint right now....

He is gonna move in when the time is right and mop up the floor with mccain's wrinkled up old ass.

Oh, ye of little faith, have some patience, our time is coming. Count on it.

[geek tragedy]

22. We've seen this movie before.

Kerry in 2004
Dukakis in 1988.

Democrats think that playing 'smart' and noble beats playing dirty and dumb.

Democrats lose.

[doc03]

26. Amen! The only democrat that has won since

Jimmy Carter was Bill Clinton and he didn't take any crap when they hit him he fought back. I have seen it before and heard it before, people said the exact same thing about Kerry how he them just where he wanted them. Well I don't remember a President Dukakis, Gore or Kerry.

[ProSense]

28. "The only democrat that has won since was Bill Clinton and he didn't take any crap "

That would be the only Democrat who took office. Gore won, and with a lot more votes than Clinton. In fact, both Kerry and Gore got a larger percentage of the vote and double-digit million more votes than Clinton.

He "didn't take any crap"? Clinton was impeached.

Putting aside that Bush Sr. was far down in the polls, and people were sick of Republicans, Clinton's first election doesn't compare to 2000 and 2004. In 2000, it was Clinton's BS that resulted in a lot of political anxiety.

On edit: How is it that his prowess at campaigning failed to help Hillary?

[doc03]

31. Of course Gore and Kerry received more votes,

first of all there were more people in 2000 and 2004 second you had Ross Perot. You're using the old Rush Limbaugh line about Clinton not even getting a majority of the vote. They threw every thing they could at Clinton for 8 years and couldn't get him, as far as the impeachment he did that himself. The reason his prowess failed Hillary was the MSM was totally in the tank for Obama.

on edit: I will vote for Obama. But the crap McCain is throwing at Obama is why I didn't support him
I just don't think he can win. The Republicans got the race card, the Muslim card, Rev. Wright and so on. Another thing the war in Iraq has turned and his opposition to the surge isn't going to help.

[DuaneBidoux]

34. But lost anyway. Why? Because Rethugs decided to win at any cost in Florida.

down and dirty--it is the only way you can play against these guys.

[ProSense]

36. Nonsense. It's a fact.

More people voting is not the same as getting a higher percentage of the vote. It simply means more people were voting.

The reason his prowess failed Hillary was the MSM was totally in the tank for Obama.

That's so lame, and proves where your concern originates.

You can moan about not believing Obama can win, but he still won the primary without your support.

As for Obama, he has McClown's number. It doesn't get any better than this.

[doc03]

39. More people, higher percentage? When Clinton ran

you had Ross Perot, of course he got a smaller percentage there was strong third candidate that year.
What about 1996? You may not think the MSM was in the tank for Obama. But you folks sure think the MSM is in the tank for McCain now that the shoe is on the other foot. Yea right I remember Kerry supporters saying the exact same things back in 2004. My only wish is to get a Democrat in the Whitehouse and from what I see so far the outlook is not good. I think Gore and Kerry both were double digits ahead at this time. I wanted whoever would be our best hope of winning. My choices would have been Clark, Edwards, Biden then Clinton. I think Obama is a mistake but I am hoping he will pull it out.

[ProSense]

43. "You may not think the MSM was in the tank for Obama."

"But you folks sure think the MSM is in the tank for McCain"

So you think they're still in the tank for Obama?

Believe whatever you want to. Obama is the candidate and he's doing fine despite your anxiety. Or should I say concern?

[americanstranger]

56. A question for you...

You said

I think Gore and Kerry both were double digits ahead at this time.

Neither one ended up being president - so what's the advantage of having a double-digit lead at this point in the campaign?

Just curious.

- as

[doc03]

42. He won the primaries, that was easy

running as the anti-war candidate in the Democratic party. We are in the GE now and the anti-war thing is dead since people percive the tide has turned in Iraq. A lot of people believe we would have pulled out of Iraq by now with our tail between our legs if Obama would have been President. It doesn't matter if Obama was against the war in the first place in the GE the average voter couldn't care less. They get their News from Fox you know.

[ProSense]

44. Well maybe the GE will turn out to be

easy as the primary. Sheeh

What I think we have here are a bunch of people who want to give the impression that Obama is doing worse than he actually is. I wonder why?

[GarbagemanLB]

48. Winning against Clinton was easy? It appears you tuned in to national politics after June 03.

[RazBerryBeret]

45. This is a different movie, with a different ending

the WORST thing Obama could do is to come off as the "angry black man" he knows it and so does the McCain campaign. He has handled these issues perfectly in the past. I will wait to see the next twist.

[The Traveler]

23. The sky is not falling

At least, not yet. But we need to face facts: The Republican propaganda machine is the best engine of disinformation and manipulation the world has seen since the days of Vladimir Lenin.

I would hope that we never get that good at it ... but we need to get better at counter-propaganda. And the only known antidote to that poison is truth, graphically, confidentally, and humorously delivered.

In this, McCain's personal weaknesses offer certain advantages. He is known to be short fused. Push his buttons hard enough, long enough, humorously enough and he will flip his lid in public.

[doc03]

27. That's what I would like to see McCain flip out and

I think there is a very good chance of that. When these two debate I wouldn't be surprised if Obama pushes the right buttons to send him over, that would be cool.

[kevinmc]

29. Obama and his team are very sharp ... Here's what I think they are doing...

Obama has not been very specific in most of his interviews or speeches on his pollicies. The media Pundits have been hitting him on this since the primaries and McCain is using that meme now.

I think Obama has his specifics already drafted and as soon as the debates start … that's when he will bring them out. This gives McCain zero time to respond and also gives Obama the National Audience to hear him state this first hand. There would be nothing McCain can do to twist his statements and the Media sound bites out of context will be shoved to the side.

[ProSense]

30. Too bad they can't join a campaign.

No one will hire them, you say? Wonder why?

The Democrats could use sixty seats in the Senate.

Carville and Penn thought they had the perfect candidate and strategy (attack, attack, attack), and some people believed them so much that they fell to earth hard when their candidate lost.

Just goes to show, talk is cheap.

[DuaneBidoux]

33. Yeah, the experts have a great record the last two presidential elections.

[LVjinx]

50. Ah, if only Kerry and Gore had listened to activist advice

the world might be different today. Not fighting back = losing. Every time.

That said, McCain wants the Obama camp to over-react badly to these ads, to better label him a thin-skinned narcisist. That's the entire point, and if he endures these ads they will fail. Unfortunately, there's already a hint of the over-reaction building among Obama supporters, claiming that the ads are racist. This is exactly what the McCain team wants, so they can smear Obama as a race-baiter and point to the primaries as evidence. The ads are going to get even more outlandish, and we should be prepared for that without going off the deep end.

Those who see racism under every rock and tree aren't doing Obama any favors, and are playing right into the McCain narrative. But Obama certainly should respond to these ads with some of his own... Not acting like someone defending their ego, but by asking what happened to McCain's "non-partisan, respectful campaign?"

[cliffordu]

35. Thanks for that break!!! OMFG OMFG!!!! O NOES!!11!1! HAAAALP!!!!

[GoesTo11]

41. Don't assume the McCain campaign is a bunch of geniuses

This is the same group that spilled applesauce on him in the grocery store, and that had him have to look up the price of milk on his cheat-sheet. The McCain campaign has no idea what to do at this point, and is flailing. No strategy at all. It mimics some of the tactics of the 2000 and 2004 elections, but no strategy at all. If I'm wrong, tell me what is McCain's strategy (as opposed to tactics)?

[FogerRox]

47. Correct, excellent point

How can I explain to you 46 yrs of campaign experience?
How can I explain to you US history/labor since 1932?
Have you heard of Camp Wellstone ?
Have you heard of Sidney Hillman ?

Obama started with a guy from facebook, he made a web site, not for social networking, but for political networking. They got 2000 volunteers to take a 3 day political training seminar, those 2k went back home to all 50 states...

That was about 20 months ago.

Studies show, the best way to get the vote out is by
1)Knocking on doors
2)Making phone calls
3)Direct mail

What Obama has started has roots in the Labor rights battles from the turn of the century thru the 1930's, google Sidney Hillman. He combines this with the Meetup.com site idea used by the Dean Campaign in 2003.

Throw in some George Lakeoff, FDR and your on your way.

SO how many states will McCain win... 8 or 9.

[azmouse]

49. K&R

[Egnever]

51. If you dont think world class strategists are reading this board you are kidding yourself

I do get your point though

[GarbagemanLB]

59. I guess I am kidding myself. Let's not get to presumptuous.

[azmouse]

52. kick

[grantcart]

53. They honed their skils by playing Risk late into the night

[scarletwoman]

54. Legends in their own minds. (nt)

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

55. K&R!!! Everyone here on DU needs to read this and calm the fuck down!!

[HardWorkingDem]

60. Channeling Bob Shrum....Channeling Bob Shrum....

I guess if career political strategists are all knowing and the like, then every candidate wins every campaign.....

Hey, let's call up the career strategist that put Mike Dukakis in a tank;or how about pushing the images of Kerry wind surfing, or how about Al Gore's handlers.

And while were at it let's throw in Terry........

[crimsonblue]

62. prick

[last_texas_dem]

63. Sorry, I'll remember in the future to just assume that our party's political strategists

have everything under control and that victory is in our grasp. That kind of thinking has always worked so well in the past, now hasn't it? Give me a break.