Will Repugs use agent provocateurs to promote violence at the convention?

[Cyrano]

My guess is that they've already got thugs lined up for next week's convention, to see to it that there will be violence for the TV cameras.

The best thing that can happen for the Rethugs is for NY demonstrations to turn violent next week. And given that BushCo will do ANYTHING to win, I for one have no doubt that they have their agent provocateurs ready to go. It doesn't take that much for a handful of people to turn a peaceful demonstration into a riot.

If you're planning on demonstrating in NY next week, do everything you can to make everyone you come into contact with aware of this tactic. Go out of your way to keep it peaceful. If not, the fascists bastards win the propaganda war, and probably the election.

In case you doubt this, remember, or ask someone older about the 1968 convention in Chicago. It put Nixon into the White House.

[lolly]

1. Most likely,yes.

I wonder if the Kerry campaign is doing anything to innoculate against this?

What could/should he (or the DNC) do?

[Cyrano]

11. Unfortunately, there's nothing the Kerry campaign can do

to head this off. Fascists always have the upper hand because we tend to play by the rules, while they will do whatever it takes. The fact that they live in a sewer doesn't stop them from understanding how best to con the American public into voting for them.

At some point, we Democrats are going to have to take the gloves off and go for the jugular. Until then, they're just going to keep on lying and winning.

[tom_paine]

2. Almost certainly.

[Jacobin]

3. Of course they will

They want violence and pictures of "crazies" breaking shit to freak out the swing voters.

They'll get it too

[bluestateguy]

4. The truth about that will probably come out in a couple of years

After some obscure blue ribbon commission, which has been empaneled to study whatever riots take place, finds that the RNC planted provocateurs to start riots. Of course we may find out sometime in 2006, after a report in page B13 of the Kansas City Star and then the commission's report is sent to the National Archives to gather dust. That's how these things tend to work.

[Capn Sunshine]

5. There's nothing the Kerry campaign can do

There WILL be shit hittingthe fan in NYC. Many of these folks are as pissed off at the Democrats as they are the republicans.

The only thing any of us can do is hope the counter spin is effective, and that FOR A CHANGE, the Kerry folks are real-time response right on top of things. Like they haven't been so far.

[KurtNYC]

6. What they generally want according to FNC memos

is just footage of the most extreme looking protestors.

Korb said he received orders to "make protesters look stupid and use footage of small crowds where the protesters look like pot-smoking liberals."

The other angle they seem to be building toward is to do some kind of martial law for Manhattan so they can shut it all down. They are talking all kinds of stuff about the Weathermen (NYPost) and anarchists so they seem to be setting the stage for something heavy handed.

[Capn Sunshine]

8. I hope the fascists reveal themselves

I wish there was another way, but we'll be able then to point and say "see? this is what they have planned for all of us"

[blondeatlast]

22. They'll try to blend in, but

look for Bruno Magli shoes and Kate Spade bags.

On the other hand, I have a Kate Spade, but I would never carry it with a broomstick skirt.

[Cyrano]

24. Nobody would wear those "ugly ass" shoes.

But since Rethugs don't know what the word "retro" means, their infiltators will probably have long hair, sandals and flowers in their hair.

[klook]

7. You can bet on it.

There would be nothing better for the Bush campaign than for the demonstrations to turn violent, and I have no doubt that they will have infiltrators ready to wreak havoc. Then BushRove can play on the fears of millions of Americans and play the Law & Order card, just like Nixon in 1968.

And as has been pointed out in a couple of astute articles I've read recently, there would be nothing worse for the Bush campaign than the sight of tens of thousands of peaceful protesters opposed to Bush.

[Zhade]

9. Duh? Of course, silly. They're fascists, it's what they do.

Fucking fascists.

[edbermac]

10. Does the Pope wear a funny hat?

All you marchers out there, have your videocams ready...

[fugop]

14. 2004 not 1968 ?

From my understanding about Chicago '68, much of the violence (the majority?) was brought on by the police, as per Daley's instructions, as opposed to the protestors, right? Isn't it somewhat common knowledge that the police lost control in their attempts to stop the protestors at any cost? Or do I have that wrong?

My hope (perhaps a naive one) is that this time the police have been better trained to stop outbreaks of violence without losing it like that, thus making a very bad situation so, so much worse. I'd like to think (although I certainly may be proven wrong) that the police in NYC are better trained now, 30-some years later, to quell violence faster and more, for lack of a better word, efficiently. If they can be fast and efficient, perhaps they can "put down" violent outbreaks before things get as out of control as they did in 1968. And I just can't believe Bloomberg would be goading them on behind the scenes, as seems to have happened in '68. Maybe some "learning from past mistakes" has occurred.

At least I hope that's the case. Because my belief right now is that Kerry is going to win this election unless - and that's a big "unless" - some outside event swings the public against him. I hope the convention isn't that event.

[Cyrano]

17. Chicago 1968 was a police riot.

If NYC demonstrators are infiltrated by Bush/Rove/DeLay thugs, it wouldn't take much to get an unruly demonstration started. The police would respond, the demonstrators would get pissed and everything would escalate.

Violence is easy. Peaceful protest is hard (given today's atmosphere).

I don't believe the NYPD is looking to promote a riot. But they would be forced to respond to violence. All it would take is a handful of Repug operatives throwing a few bottles at them.

[TWiley]

12. Yup, it is the kind of folks they are.

There was enough pushing, elbowing, and shoulder butting at the little bush speech that i went to. There were about 1500 demonstrators, and 12,000 people there to see bush speak.

In last Sunday's opinion section of the local paper, this bush supporter claimed that the Kerry supporters "spit on his two year old son as he went by in his stroller".

I do not believe it for a second. He is just one more liar for Jesus in my book.

But, it does illustrate the kind of mindset the bush republicans have.

[cheezus]

13. why is violence at the RNC good for the republicans?

[Cyrano]

15. Because of the way the media will spin it.

After four years of BushCo, it's self-evident that they know very well how to turn virtually anything into their favor.

I can see the headlines now: "Rabid liberal Democrats attack peaceful Republican delegates visiting New York. Republican lady from Kansas was treated for bruises received during a left-wing stampede started by dedicated Bush haters. These demonstrators are un-American and refuse to accept the fact that people have different opinions."

Don't you think this is the kind of crap you'll see if violence breaks out? I just hope that two weeks from now I don't have to post an "I told you so" message.

[cheezus]

16. or will it be "wow. look how bad things have gotten..."

like in 68


I'm still hoping for no violence. Just lots of TV coverage of HUGE peaceful protests and stories about how average joe newyorker hates bush.

/i can dream

[WoodrowFan]

18. they don't need to

a few members of the hardcore left will do it for them. WHy get their hands dirty when a few anarchists will do their dirty work for them

[elehhhhna]

19. Picturephones and video cameras reporting for duty! n/t

[Cyrano]

20. Sure hope you're wrong, but

this planet has never has a shortage of morons.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people (Dems, Repugs, and others) will do everything possible to act against their own interests.

[blondeatlast]

23. Everyone ought to be given a copy of "For What It's Worth" to sing.

The anarchists show up EVERYWHERE and the group I know always starts trouble; it's like they enjoy it.

These are the people who will provoke OUR people and they like to push as hard as they can until they get thrown out.

They will start as much trouble as the provocateurs from the Reich, who may be tempted to join them to make us look even worse.

I was 9 when the Chicago riots happened, and it still haunts me today. Perhaps all the protestors can lead a mass sing along of "For What It's Worth."

[blondeatlast]

21. NYT reports that Bunnypants plans to call ALL protests,

ALL of them, even the anarchists, to the Kerry campaign and claim they are campagn sanctioned.

(snip)
Republicans said they would seek to turn any disruptions to their advantage, by portraying protests by even independent activists as Democratic-sanctioned displays of disrespect for a sitting president.
(snip)

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/22/politics/campaign/22repubs.html

They THINK they are gonna bully WE, THE PEOPLE, exercising our First Amendment rights.

The hell they are...

[blondeatlast]

26. Tabasco, please.

:kick:

[blondeatlast]

25. Words to remember. "For What It's Worth"

There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware

I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind

I think it's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

What a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side

It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

We better stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, now, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

Written to remember the Chicago riots at the Democratic National Convention, 1968, for those too young to realize this was DECIDEDLY NOT a commercial song!