Kaine on Abortion

[emilyg]

Promote abstinence; ban partial-birth abortion
I will reduce abortion in Virginia by enforcing current Virginia restrictions, passing an enforceable ban on partial-birth abortion, ensuring women's access to health care (including legal contraception), and promoting abstinence-focused education and adoption. We should reduce abortion in this manner, rather than by criminalizing women and doctors.
Source: Campaign website www.kaine2005.org, "Issues" Nov 8, 2005

I have a faith-based opposition to abortion
I have a faith-based opposition to abortion. As governor, I will work in good faith to reduce abortions by:
Enforcing the current Virginia restrictions on abortion and passing an enforceable ban on partial birth abortion that protects the life and health of the mother;
Fighting teen pregnancy through abstinence-focused education;
Ensuring women's access to health care (including legal contraception) and economic opportunity; and
Promoting adoption as an alternative for women facing unwanted pregnancies.
Too often politicians are interested in scoring political points, rather than in reducing the number of abortions. Many of the legislative proposals introduced in the General Assembly, like the ones to require unnecessary building standards for doctor's offices that perform abortions, are just political grandstanding. They encourage division and lawsuits rather than contributing to the goal of reducing abortions.
Source: Campaign website www.kaine2005.org, "Issues" Nov 8, 2005

[BlooInBloo]

1. A mix of good & bad....

EDIT: Assuming he genuinely means it all, of course.

[Bluebear]

2. "Assuming he genuinely means it all, of course" - if he's a liar, an even worse choice.

[BlooInBloo]

5. Easy tiger. I've not once advocated for his selection as VP....

Just calling the description as I saw it.

[Bluebear]

9. Nothing to do with you, just commenting that I can only take his issues as he presents them

So many have presented "well that's what he needs to say now, but when he is actually elected he will be different" and I can't buy that.

[BlooInBloo]

15. Ah - fair enuff.

[Kittycat]

3. And what is McCain's stance?

I mean really - that is our option, right?

Obama or McCain
Obama's VP Choice who isn't in charge, but there to assist
Or McCain's VP Choice that will be another tool of the RW.

[Bluebear]

4. No, Obama's option would be to choose a progressive VP.

[Kittycat]

6. No, not this year.

Sorry - but we don't have that option right now. Let's get real and look at the direction things have gone. Sorry, but we need a clean candidate, and sorry to say - but a safer one right now.

[Bluebear]

8. Which year will be alright for us to choose candidates based on values then?

[Kittycat]

We have that candidate.

Now we're looking forward to getting a VP that will help our candidate sail through scandal free.

[Maddy McCall]

20. Well that answer took a lot of thought.

:eyes:

[emilyg]

35. Is that all you're looking for in a vp?

[BlooInBloo]

12. Yah - I'm not a big fan of "wait until it's your turn for rights" thinking...

Commonly used by DUers advocating for republicans.

[Skittles]

13. NOT THIS YEAR, PT!!!!

WE MUST PANDER TO THE REPUKE VOTERS!!!

[Skittles]

10. get it, PT?

we need to act like repukes to get repuke votes

[Kittycat]

11. Kaine isn't a repuke.

[Skittles]

14. his position on abortion certainly makes him sound like one n/t

[Maddy McCall]

19. Indeed. He couldn't be much more conservative on abortion.

[MonkeyFunk]

39. well, I guess that's "change" of a sort

[onenote]

43. right, Someone who says they'd veto an abortion ban even if roe is overturned

is as conservative as they get.

NOT.

Get a grip on reality.

[Kittycat]

23. Only one part of his position - partial birth

And we don't have clarification on that if he's ruling out issues where it's dependent on the life of the mother or medical necessity where the child wouldn't survive after traditional birth (ie. Anecephaly, etc).

There is nothing wrong with the remainder of his stance. He supports legal contraception, adoption and abstinence. Nothing I've read states that he's for abstinence only.

[Maddy McCall]

26. Well, you don't know much about the Republicans platform if you don't realize...

that he took the "adoption instead of abortion" and "abstinence education" straight from it.

[Kittycat]

32. Sorry Ignored, i can't read your posts.

You happen to be the ONLY person in my ignored list. I've removed you like 4 times, but you keep proving yourself worthy of that status. Sorry.

[Skittles]

33. I doubt very much Maddy is crying her eyes out about you

:rofl:

[Marrah_G]

34. How are you replying to an ignored poster?

[awoke_in_2003]

49. Good question

I have no one on my list, so I (temporarily) put you on it. Refreshed, and no indication you were there, not even a blank box like people get when tombstoned. Interesting.

PS- I have removed you from the list

[awoke_in_2003]

50. Double post delete. nt

[Kittycat]

51. I'm not

Follow the tree structure in reply. I responded to my self. All I see is ignored blacked out. It's obvious who it is, since she's the only person I have on ignore. And I really could care less if she's crying or not. She's the most offensive poster on this site, IMO. So ignored is where she remains.

[onenote]

42. Not if you actually give his complete position, not a partial description

A little dishonesty apparently goes a long way here at DU. An honest representation of Kaine's position on abortion would include the following statement that he made during a debate with his repub opponent in 2005:

"I haven’t hesitated to state consistently over the years that I am against abortion and the death penalty. And I have stated since I first got into public life: I am not going to change my religious view to get elected to public office. And I won’t let anybody push me around for my religious views or question them.

But beginning in 1994, I have taken on the role of public servant. And I have had to put my hand on a Bible, affirming everything I believe, and raise my right hand and swear that I will uphold the laws of the Commonwealth and of the United States. And I view that oath like my wedding oath. I view it as an oath that I am not going to break, and I wouldn’t take it unless I could carry it out."

http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2005/07/kaine-kilgore-transcript/

In another debate, Kaine specifically stated during one of the debates against his repub opponent, that while he was personally opposed to abortion, if Roe v. Wade was overturned he would still veto a law that banned abortion.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2005/09/14/DI2005091401997.html

If that sounds like a repub to you, you need to come back and visit realityland.

[dflprincess]

41. No matter how many progressive votes it costs -

we must get those Repuke votes - even as the country moves left.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3690816

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/07/28/10644/


I had so hoped we might have an actual Democrat in the VP slot.

[Marrah_G]

7. Some good, some bad

[Skittles]

16. he SUCKS n/t

[Marrah_G]

18. Yeah

I agree, he sucks. I hope Obama chooses someone else.

[Maddy McCall]

24. On this he certainly does.

We need a VP that's clearly pro-choice.

[Maddy McCall]

17. The only good here is this line:

"Ensuring women's access to health care (including legal contraception) and economic opportunity."

The rest--not so good...indeed, identical to most Republican candidates' platforms.

[onenote]

44. Only because the OP has chosen to present an incomplete picture of Kaine's position

He doesn't personally support abortion. But he supports a woman's right to choice. So much so that he has stated that if Roe v Wade were overturned and a bill banning abortion was presented to him, he'd veto it.

Find me that in most repub candidate's platforms.

The dishonesty around here is appalling.

[Barack_America]

21. Wrong information.

Kaine cut funding for abstinence-based sex education.

[Maddy McCall]

22. Because of tax shortfalls or because of his objection to it?

A lot of governors have cut a lot of programs...simply because they don't have finances to fund them.

So, what did he replace abstinence education with?

[Barack_America]

28. Reportedly because of his opposition to it.

"RICHMOND, Nov. 12 -- Virginia Gov. Timothy M. Kaine has cut off state funding for abstinence-only sex education programs, citing recent studies finding that teenagers should also be taught about birth control and condoms to protect against pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/12/AR2007111201716.html

I don't know what VA replaced these programs with, however.


Also, have you seen this thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6554931&mesg_id=6554931

[cali]

56. don't bother presenting actual evidence to people who are making up shit

and are determined to pass off their shit as truth. they won't respond. they can't respond. that takes a degree of honesty.

[MrModerate]

25. No one can argue that abstinance . . .

when practiced consistently, prevents unwanted pregnancies, STDs, and a lot of emotional distress (especially for young people).

Of course, being human beings and all, we seldom practice abstinance consistently. Religious-based abstinance programs rely far too much on the shame factor and not enough on the empowerment of making choices for oneself. That's why such programs (consistently) fail and have devastating impact on self-esteem when they do fail.

IMO, life/health education that emphasizes abstinance over choice/contraception is a missuse of taxpayer money and a disservice to the community. For those reasons, I disagree with Kaine.

I'm not a religious person, and what I regard as excessive and inappropriate religiosity in public life gives me the pip. However, I also acknowledge the reality that religious people (80% of Americans? 20% of Americans? -- I've heard both numbers) consider sexuality to be a topic at least partially within the religious orbit, and a wise poltician does not disregard what the people believe. If that politician is himself religious, then you get a double-whammy.

Could I live with a Veep selection like Kaine? Yes I could. I've long given up on the notion of getting religion out of American politics, at least in my lifetime, and now simply sigh and move on to the next discussion point when deciding whether to vote for someone or not.

That having been said, I was in the DC area during the campaign that Kaine ran for governor, and he was pretty effective. And by reports, he's been a pretty skilful governor in a tough political environment.

He can't speak for beans, however. (Admittedly comparing him to Bill Clinton or Barack Obama is somewhat unfair, since they're both substantially more articulate than other US politicians).

[JerseygirlCT]

27. There's no such procedure as "partial birth abortion"

and his position on that - either ignorance or the willing adoption of that right-wing talking point - is disturbing.

And is he leaving some sort of loophole with "legal" contraception. As opposed to illegal contraception? Which would be what?

This does not make me happy.

[Sparkly]

29. Exactly. nt

[LisaM]

30. I really can't believe Obama would pick this guy

it would be a horrible choice. Didn't anyone on his staff learn a lesson from Holy Joe Lieberman? Do we need another conservative, religious Democrat?

[Maddy McCall]

31. All great points.

[onenote]

54. then why did Hillary say she could support a ban on "partial birth abortion"?

From her debate with Rick Lazio when she ran for Senate:

CLINTON: My opponent is wrong. I have said many times that I can support a ban on late-term abortions, including partial-birth abortions, so long as the health and life of the mother is protected. I’ve met women who faced this heart-wrenching decision toward the end of a pregnancy. Of course it’s a horrible procedure. No one would argue with that. But if your life is at stake, if your health is at stake, if the potential for having any more children is at stake, this must be a woman’s choice.


For the record, John Kerry said a similar thing in his debate with chimpy.

[JerseygirlCT]

58. I don't know. Don't much like it whoever does that

It's political talk, and political talk using RW talking points.

This is a rarely-used medical procedure. The few times it's needed, it's almost always because something hs gone terribly wrong with the fetus, or because the mother's life is in danger. There are some really heartbreaking stories of very wanted children - where the alternative to this is either a mother carrying until term, giving birth and watching the baby die a painful death then, or the mother suffering terrible health complications or even losing her life.

The anti-choice zealots like to frame this as evil abortionists eager to perform this as a method of birth control late in the pregnancy. That's great for their selling point, but pretty thin on the facts.

I'd just hope we'd do better, that's all.

[Canuckistanian]

36. Wait, I remember this guy now.

His stance on abortion brought on MANY debates on the "big tent" theory of Democratic politics.

Count me out as one of his supporters.

[zulchzulu]

37. WTF? He's an asshole

Anytime a politician playis up the abortion issue and is trying to stop reproductive freedom for women, they get the buzzer from me. It's not a "single issue". It goes to the heart of freedom from the government to try to control a citizen's personal life.

No on Kaine.

[TexasObserver]

38. Oh good!! Another "drive by" posting.

... on the way to one of those "other" sites.

The right of abortion is safe with Democrats in the White House.

[emilyg]

46. Actually I was on the way

to feeding my cats. Did you want me to stay around for cocktails?

[PM7nj]

40. Welcome Back!

I see the Capital Hill gang have received their marching orders.

[emilyg]

47. Who is the Capital Hill gang?

[pecwae]

55. An obsession.

[femrap]

45. Doesn't anyone remember this guy's

'Democratic Response to the State of the Union Speech?' He was horrid...with those weird 'bushy' eyebrows doing strange things.

He's another Repugnant Lite. The Dem party has been taken over by Repugnants who left the Neocon party.

We on the Left have no one. I am sick to death of this damn move to the right...

I don't see how you could pick a more pathetic VP candidate. Certainly he find some other half way decent Southerner that can get some Nascar votes. shit '

[dflprincess]

48. I'm beginning to wonder if part of Obama's mission is

to completely purge the left from the party - maybe that's the change he keeps alluding to.

[onenote]

52. oooh...you figured out his plan!!

Obama wants to purge the left from the party. Yup. That's it alright. Must be why Michael Moore and MoveOn.org have endorsed him. They're secretly RWers.

:sarcasm:

[dflprincess]

60. Where else do MoveOn, Moore or Leahy or anyone else on the left have to go this year?

There is no viable 3rd party.

Obama is not a neocon - I never said he was. But, while not officially a memeber, he fits right in with the DLC and the attitude of his campaign and it's workers is that they don't need the left. Unless he goes completely off the deep end pandering to right, I will fill in the circle next to his name when I vote against McCain this fall because I feel pretty much the same about his as I felt about Clinton - Republican lite is better than Republican neocon, but not by much.

[cali]

57. oh yes, of course. that's why Pat Leahy that well known neocon supports him.

another load of stinking shit.

[femrap]

59. Good one!

I think the 'regular' repugnants (those who aren't neocons) have decided to just take over the Dem party...and obama just wants to be prez and doesn't care much about who he is obligated to.

[Youphemism]

53. The VP position has nothing to do with abortion rights...

Don't get me wrong... I don't see this guy as a great VP choice. I think the Hillary supporters who keep posting this abortion issue would at least agree on that point.

But short of the VP having to take over for the President and then appointing Supreme Court Justices, there's really no way a VP can have much, if any impact on abortion issues. A more legitimate point would be that this appointment could lose some support from those Hillary supporters in spite of the fact that abortion stance has little to do with the VP slot.

Anyway, from the little I know about this guy, he seems like a dud. He reminds me of Dukakis, and I don't think it's just the eyebrows.

I'd be happy to read any *good* points about him anyone would like to point out. I don't know enough about him yet.

[StevieM]

61. But what if he succeeded to the presidency? Could he be counted on to appoint the right judges?(eom)

[Youphemism]

62. First, that's a pretty big "if"...

Given that it's happened, what, 3 times in about 230 years? Second, it would have to happen early enough to allow time for a Supreme Court appointment that Obama hadn't already made.

Given that remote scenario, I'd say it's still pretty likely, given the party he's from and the clear mandate of the people who would have elected Obama -- who ran on a very clear platform on this subject -- yes, it's pretty likely he would not commit political suicide by appointing a pro-life justice.

Still, it would be a question worth asking, and one that I'm guessing *would* be asked as part of the VP vetting process.

There's no guarantee. But the scenario is so unlikely that I think it's important to keep it in perspective.

I'm taking a wild guess that you have your mind set on a different VP. I'm not crazy about Kaine, so I'm not about to defend him. But I also just plain don't know a lot about him, either. I thought I'd point out that a VP's chances of having any impact on abortion rights are pretty remote.