Military hospital visit - Obama misstep?

[HardWorkingDem]

I have to ask this question: Why didn't Obama just leave his campaign staff behind and go to the hospital alone?

I realize Obama was going to catch crap from McCain either way (not going, he doesn't care, if he went alone, he's just doing it for politics).

But wouldn't he smart money have been just going in alone?

[BlooInBloo]

1. Ugh. More concern. I can't take all of this concern.

[HardWorkingDem]

3. Well, then don't answer...

then do the polite thing and move along...no one said a person has to reply to each posting...

[Skip Intro]

20. satire, right? nt

[RedShoes]

83. I'm concerned about all the people just calling "concern troll" as if THAT inoculates Obama from

the issue. It is truly tired. Obama is not perfect. They REALLY have no right to pretend he is. That actually detracts his chances.

He WILL mess up from now to November. Defending the indefensible (hint: FISA comes to mind here) only detracts from your credibility, and his.

[writes3000]

2. 1) They still could have made a stink about Obama not following military orders

The Pentagon sends a warning that no campaigning is allowed. No campaign staff is allowed. And everyone that is with Obama, including Obama himself is there for the campaign. If Obama goes, he's opening himself up to attack.

2) From what I understand, the visit was planned by one of Obama's military advisers who was not allowed to go. So the military man who arranged the visit, now could not go. I understand why Obama's first instinct was not to leave this guy behind.

3) This meticulously planned campaign is too smart to send Obama into a location with literally no one else around from his campaign. Could Obama have managed himself? Of course. But given everything else, why would they make that choice?

You'd have to be incredibly cynical to believe that the opposition would use Obama listening to the Pentagon against him. This is the lesson they've now learned.

My only wish was that Obama called them during the time he was scheduled to visit. That would have nipped this in the bud.

But I really can't fault them on their thinking here.

[pot luck]

19. He did call the troops.

I wish that the journalists who were traveling with Obama would vouch for him that he wasn't taking the media with him to visit the troops. Surprisingly, Andrea Mitchell is the only one that I've seen trying to clear this up. She was emphatic that he didn't bring any of the press with him when he'd visited them in the ME and wasn't planning on taking them in Germany.

[writes3000]

37. I completely agree with you. He did call the troops.

But he didn't do it at the time he was originally scheduled to visit. That was my point. If he had done it, it would have minimized their complaints. I don't really fault Obama's team for that.

And yes, there was never a plan to bring the press with him. That's all a McCain lie.

[Muttocracy]

4. didn't state/military declare it a campaign trip once the other Senators

and staff went home?

[writes3000]

5. Yes. n/t

[sandnsea]

7. No one can campaign on federal property

If it was deemed a campaign trip, then it seems to me, that's that. No visiting federal property. Obama did the right thing.

[Frances]

6. I am certain Obama will be asked about this tomorrow on TV

And I'm sure he will have an answer that politely makes McCain look like the whining crybaby he is.

[Tarheel_Dem]

13. This is another non-issue, and I too have faith that Obama will put this

away. The only trouble is, will he be able to refute this on all the major networks, or will he have to make an ad for rebuttal? Either way, I'm hoping he'll put this away quickly, but I doubt the M$M will let him. The media knows the truth, because Andrea Mitchell came out the same day that this non-story became an issue, and said that it was the Pentagon that nixed the visit.

p.s.: Why the o.p. felt the need to start the 1000th thread on this issue is a mystery to me.

[HardWorkingDem]

17. Because some DUers....

Don't spend countless hours at the pc.

Also, what, are you stating that as stories continue to unfold, grow and change that people can't ask questions here?

[Tarheel_Dem]

21. Not at all, but if you stop by and give Skinner a couple of bucks, you'll

be able to use the search thingie. No harm, no foul.

[elkston]

26. Why ask a question about THIS issue, unless you really beleive ...

Obama doesn't give a shit about our troops. He did actually call them in lieu of making a physical visit.

I mean really this is one helluva minor point to start going negative on.

Even more curious is that you want to single this out in a trip that has otherwise been an astounding success.

Just like the opposition, you are searching for that ONE thing to confirm that you were "right about that fraud all along!!!". heh.

[HardWorkingDem]

40. Let me ask you this....

of all the presidential campaigns you have followed, how many of them have had idiotic non-stories become huge stories?

Shall I list a few for you? How about Dukakis and the Willie Horton ad; Bill Clinton and his "visit" to the Soviet Union; Al Gore and the countless serial exaggerations about him; John Kerry and the windsurfing and on it goes.

Next, I wish people would ask what one believes before making wild ass assumptions because let me make this very fucking clear: I think Barack Obama has more compassion and sympathy in one of his pinkie fingers than what McCain has in his entire body.


And if you think I believe Obama is a fraud, go read some of my past postings about him. Your last line is an insult.

[Gabi Hayes]

72. with you on this post, man. I heard WGN radio go with it as a NEWS story

at 11:30 last night. NOT the stffing the troops.....the AD itself!

that's what's happening

and McCain is going to say tomorrow that NOTHING would EVER stop him from seeing his troops. nothing. it would cause a "SEISMIC EVENT"

he will say this on ABC/s This Week, and just wait and see if GS will confront him with the fact that he ALREADY was kept from seeing troops this year for the same reason as Obama, and the earth did NOT move then

it's all in another thread

volcano jen has the story about him not seeing the troops.

here's the quote for tomorrow:

http://www.kansascity.com/445/story/721780.html

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. LOL check out this comment!!

John McCain would never shortchange the troops and neither would President Bush. When the troops complained about body armor and soldiers being blow up, President Bush told Rumsfeld to fix it. We really couldn't afford to do it but President Bush and John McCain went ahead and fixed it. Now, Obama wants everyone to pay more for gas and is a democrat Muslum and Black. John McCain is a war hero and a prisoner. Obama is a gas price raiser and a flop flipper.

*
Posted by: Talk Radio Tommy

[cliffordu]

8. I'm certainly glad others are Really Concerned so I don't have to be.

Nice!

[HardWorkingDem]

10. As I replied to the above poster...don't answer then...

After Edwards dropped out, I became an Obama supporter. Now I'm starting to see what some of the HRC people complained about here when it comes to any sort of question or criticism of obama.

He is not God, Jesus or someone above questions.

So, why be rude and if you don't like a thread, do us all a favor and move on.

[cliffordu]

43. IIRC, I have never referred to Our Holy Candidate as Jesus, God, or Yaweh.

And he didn't misstep.

The thing was set up as a classic double bind. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.....

The only people second guessing Obama more than the freepers and the NEOCONS are people who are supposed to be his supporters right here on DU.

Maybe he knows more about what he's doing than you or I do.

[SwampG8r]

11. hey cliff

i got 10 buck that says whoever mccain names vp is the candidate in november
and
i think i know the timeline
whatever the cutoff date is after the convention for the states to have ballots ready and not be able to reprint them
iow just before the election itself

a late october surprise maybe even halloween

[cliffordu]

41. I think you have the timeline perfected. Mittsey it is!!!!

[SwampG8r]

64. having mcinanes name

on the ballot allows them to still gather his votes while freeing mittens or huckleberry to work the base too

[cliffordu]

71. Yep. This is all just prelude.

[Arkana]

9. Yes, why not LEAVE YOUR FUCKING CAMPAIGN STAFF AND SECURITY DETAIL and go off by yourself?

[HardWorkingDem]

12. Grow up...who is saying leave out security detail...

Oh, let's see here - we have a man running for president and evidently some here seem to think he has something to fear from injured soldiers?

Why would a presidential candidate need to be surrounded by campaign staff in a visit like this?

[countingbluecars]

14. Who here said

he had something to fear from injured soldiers?

[HardWorkingDem]

16. Read #9.....subject line...

[countingbluecars]

18. That says nothing

about being afraid of the injured soldiers. Perhaps there are others to be concerned about when changing plans and leaving staff behind.

[HardWorkingDem]

42. Why would a politcian...

have to be surrounded by campaign staff to visit the soldiers? That is how the Rethugs will paint it.

Now, what I'd like to see is Obama charter a plane himself on his own dime and then really shove it right up McCain's ass.

[writes3000]

24. Okay, the way you've argued this case suggests you're not really thinking here.

Most campaigns do NOT send their candidates off to locations in foriegn lands with no one else from the campaign. Why? Because at the very least, the campaign likes to have someone else manage their time so the candidate doesn't have to.

The Pentagon sent a warning. Obama and his campaign took the warning seriously and heeded that. Obama showed respect for the Pentagon and their rules. And he also didn't put himself in an ill-advised situation. Smart man.

[burythehatchet]

28. He's thinking perfectly well. Check his prior ruminations.

[HardWorkingDem]

36. Yeah, why don't you direct people to some of them...

because I'd love to know which ones you are talking about...

[burythehatchet]

39. They know their way around Taser Boy

[Skip Intro]

30. Security wasn't an issue.

I always try to hold my party to the same standards I hold the repukes. If this had been bush or mccain, the criticism here would have been thick. It's not different just because it is one of our own.

This was a blunder. At best.

I don't like biting my tounge. Truth is truth. He should have gone.

Let's be honest.

[writes3000]

35. No, he shouldn't have.

Let's be honest.

You do not send a candidate into a location all alone without plenty of advance planning. Ask any campaign manager.

They made the correct call.

[Skip Intro]

66. Therefore, the judgement was made for political reasons, the wrong reasons, imho.

He should have visited those troops. Because it was the right thing to do, regardless of the poltical strategy. This reminds me of his FISA vote. Do what's right, stand for what is right, regardless of whether it fits the political strategy.

[writes3000]

78. He did what was right.

He planned to make a private visit there. When the Pentagon told him that he couldn't make that visit with the General or anyone else, he decided not to go out of respect for the Pentagon's wishes.

Were there troops who were probably disappointed? I'm sure there were. But Obama decided to make sure that they followed the rules laid down by the Pentagon, ensuring that those troops were not used as a political volleyball.

Obama insisting that the troops NEEDED to see him despite the Pentagon's concerns would have been arrogant and pushy.

Obama did the honorable thing where the troops were concerned and where the Pentagon was concerned. And as a cherry on top, he called the troops personally to make sure they knew he was thinking about them.

[wmbrew0206]

15. The McCain campaign was looking for any perceived misstep and this is all they could come up with

We can sit here and debate whether this was a "misstep" but the bottom line is the rethugs think they have a win.

McCain was desperate for any kind of misstep since Obama's overseas trip was a resounding success. Obama did extremely well by all accounts in Afghanistan and Iraq.

McCain needed Obama to screw up some where and he didn't. So they took this one, what I am chalking up to a miscommunicattion between Obama's campaign and the Pentagon, as a chance to tell the Joe Six-packs that Obama cares more about getting adoration from Europeans than seeing the troops.

I think the rethugs they can get this to play well with the disaffected Clinton supporters in OH, MI, and PA.

[AZBlue]

22. Wow...your concern is so touching.

[burythehatchet]

27. Read some of his past posts. You'll get the idea.

[iconicgnom]

23. AHA! an Obama negative!

:rofl:

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Karen O]

29. Big Mis-step

Yes, he was in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation,

However, when all is in doubt, it's wise to do the right thing, and that would be to visit the troops.

Mistake on his campaigns' part, in my opinion.

[burythehatchet]

31. I look forward to your future insights.

Well, actually not.

Grab a chunk on the way out.

[Sparkly]

32. He visits them at Walter Reed. He visited them in Afghanistan. He visited them in Iraq.

ONE hospital in Germany, advised against by the Pentagon, gets shifted off his schedule... I don't even understand what the implication is supposed to be. That he doesn't care about the troops, or what?!?

[Karen O]

33. No, it's not that he doesn't care about the troops,

Obviously, he does. We all do. His work at Walter Reed speaks volumes.

But, he should not have cancelled this visit in Germany.

[writes3000]

34. If he wasn't allowed to go there with anyone else, yes should have cancelled.

Imagine this. An angry war vet gets into a screaming frenzy calling Obama a traitor, a Muslim, etc. Obama tries to calm him down but it only makes him angrier.

There is no one to help Obama transition away from this guy.

Surprisingly, there is a reporter there - covering something else.

It becomes a huge story. All choreographed by the Repubs.

If he was all alone, he should not have gone.

[Karen O]

38. He didn't have to be alone,

He just couldn't bring a campaign staffer with him.

There were alternative options for him.

He certainly could have visited. It's really a shame that he didn't, in my honest opinion.

[Sparkly]

44. Why do YOU think he didn't? nt

[Karen O]

47. I have no idea,

honestly. I really don't. That's why I feel it was a mistake.

[demgrrrll]

52. Thanks for stopping by to express your concern.

[writes3000]

45. Who else was with Obama in Germany but his campaign staff? I can't wait to hear this. n/t

[Sparkly]

50. In fairness, I'm sure he'd have been given security detail, hospital escort, etc. nt

[writes3000]

54. All people he did not know. Bad idea. Not worth the risk for what was a private visit.

Campaigns don't rely on people they don't know or trust to take care of the candidate for exactly that reason.

They don't know them so they shouldn't trust them.

If someone claimed Obama made an outrageous statement which Obama didn't make, who would be able to defend Obama's version of events?

The campaign made the right decision.

[TwilightGardener]

62. Bingo. Thank you.

[TwilightGardener]

63. Just because someone's in the military doesn't mean you can trust them--

I would know.

[my3boyz]

79. Yeah, especially if they are total right wing nuts. I know during

2000 one of my husband's co-workers totally went off on me. I sent out a reminder to vote and to stay away from the "Bushes" (meaning not to vote for GWB). I did not realize I had added him to my list (mostly family). Anyway, he replied back and said he would never vote for a Democratic candidate as long as
he had a breath in his body. So I would not trust a right wing nut like him with Obama.

*Oh and as a sidenote he no longer works with my husband (was scared to freefall jump so he went back to the fleet). Anyway, shortly after the war started I spoke to his wife. She was whining that he was never home and headed towards the Middle East. Normally, I'm sad when a person has to go but I was quite happy about this one person going. If you are so gung-ho and supportive of George W. Bush then go fight in his damn war.

[Karen O]

51. Well, I certainly hope

he had his Senate aides with him. Why wouldn't he?

[writes3000]

Because this portion of the trip was staffed by the campaign & paid for by the campaign.

Even if they were available, Senate aides aren't trained for this situation so again, the campaign made the judicious decision.

[Barack_America]

61. Um, because unlike McCain, he still WORKS in the Senate...

Therefore his Senate staff would be better served staying in Washington. Unless, of course, the Pentagon had bothered to inform Obama about the "rules" before his campaign plane left for Europe.

[liberal1973]

82. lol..

"-in my honest opinion" That's kind of like the straight talk express lol...More like full of it express.

[Number23]

59. I guess I have more faith in the man

An angry war vet gets into a screaming frenzy calling Obama a traitor, a Muslim, etc. Obama tries to calm him down but it only makes him angrier.

I honestly believe that in a situation like that he could have handled himself perfectly. I'm sure that Barack is perfectly able to handle himself in just about any situation.

But the point that he has visited troops at Walter Reed, Iraq and Afghanistan is very well made. This whole story is a sad attempt by the Republicans to take some of the luster of what, by all accounts, has been a ground-breaking, extraordinarily well-received trip by Obama.

[TwilightGardener]

46. I don't get it either. Why doesn't the man get credit for TRYING??

[TwilightGardener]

48. Why didn't John McCain go visit the nearest VA hospital instead of

wasting his time at Fudge Haus?

[Barack_America]

49. FYI. He called the troops.

Why should he let the Pentagon screw with him further (note that they informed him of the "rules" just after he left all his Senate staff in DC), and possibly make him late for his meeting with Sarkozy? Imagine the press that would have gotten.

[Karen O]

53. The Pentagon did not screw him,

It was his decision to not visit the troops.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Karen O]

57. Kristi, I'm a not a republican,

Sorry.

But, you're wrong on your facts. The Pentagon did not prevent Obama from visiting the troops.

Barack made a calculated guess on how to handle the situation, and he guessed wrong, this time.

[Barack_America]

58. No. It is you who is mistaken.

"But it turns out that the Pentagon did in fact tell Obama that in this case, it was not only "inappropriate," but against DOD rules, for him to conduct the visit with campaign staff.

"We have longstanding Department of Defense policy in regards to political campaigns and elections," Pentagon spokesperson Elizabeth Hibner told me. "We informed the Obama staff that he was more than welcome to visit as Senator Obama, with Senate staff. However, he could not conduct the visit with campaign staff."

After being told this, the Obama campaign announced yesterday that it had decided it was "inappropriate" to make the visit as part of a campaign trip.

It's unclear how Obama could have made the visit at all, given the Pentagon's directives. No Senate staff was on the trip, and the Obama camp says they received the Pentagon's directives on Wednesday, after they were already abroad."

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/pentagon_confirms_that_it_told.php

P.S. If you're not a Freeper or a sockpuppet, please consider un-hiding your profile.

[Karen O]

65. Kristi, he could have visited the troops,

c'mon.

It was a mistake of his. Will it hurt him? Probably not. But don't kid yourself, the media will go with this story.

P.S. - I'll gladly unhide my profile, if you tell me how.

[Barack_America]

67. The explanation for this was already presented to you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6545236&mesg_id=6545457

Candidates do not put themselves at the mercy of people they do not know and do not trust.

As for the profile, you can change it under "options", "edit your preferences". The default is to show it, so you selected not to show it when you registered.

[Karen O]

68. OK, give me a moment,

I'll update it.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberal1973]

85. I don't understand

You say your not a freeper ,but you use lies like a freeper. Fact- the Pentagon did essentially prevent the meeting with the troops.

I understand you don't like that answer because you have a agenda. So again you use a freeper lie and you say your not a freeper. :shrug:

I think you are a freeper.

[liberal1973]

84. That's not true

You know it's not true. How come your lying? or are you just stupid?:dunce:

[treestar]

69. So what, this is only July

The convention hasn't been held yet.

the M$M whores will criticize obama no matter what he does.

If he went, you'd be saying it was a "mis-step" to "use the troops for political gain" even if he'd gone alone. it would still be in the news and therefore, you'd know about it.

Sometimes judgment calls have to be made. There is always someone willing to criticize them.

McBush did the same thing and no one questions his judgement. Why is that? Why aren't you doing a post on that? This is DU.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JackORoses]

74. don't work too hard at expressing all that concern. you might strain yourself.

[liberal1973]

81. Nice one troll

"Cult of Obama" and you say your not a freeper.

[WinkyDink]

86. "Cult"? All-righty, then.

[TexasObserver]

73. You do know we support Obama, not McCain here, right?

Your thinly veiled criticisms of Obama do not fool anyone.

[HardWorkingDem]

75. Have you ever been in a fist fight before?

On top of that, do a simple search of my past postings.

Until then, Dems have been making the same idiotic mistakes for 20 plus years, are you tired of them or not?

[TexasObserver]

80. Yes, but what has that got to do with the price of tea in China?

I don't know what your problem is, but your Obama hatred and your RW talking points smell like dog shit.

We really do not need you tracking that stinky stuff in here, now do we?

[HardWorkingDem]

90. Why don't you try looking a some of my past threads?

For one, I really am disgusted by the word "hate" and how casually it gets tossed around. I don't know if you are some pimply faced college kid watching your first campaign or what, but after watching these things for three decades, I have seen countless times where a seemingly tiny thing morphs into a huge thorn.

Hopefully the Obama campaign people are being crazy like foxes with this story and are laying a trap for McCain. I don't know. But from the outside looking in, I think it would have been easier for Obama to go to that hospital, than not. But like I typed, maybe his campaign has something lying in wait for McCain.

[TexasObserver]

91. I didn't realize you were so troubled.

I won't talk to you further, because I feel it's wrong to take advantage of the ill.

[HardWorkingDem]

92. Thank you....

By all means, thank you....

[WinkyDink]

87. You mean like the last two treasonous Grand Thefts by Bushco and the Supreme Court?

Or do you mean the 8-year term of President Clinton?

[Fleshdancer]

76. If he did go, cameras or not....

...both the WH and McCain would have yelled, whined, and cried over Obama using troops as a political ploy. Never mind that Obama has visited troops at Walter Reed several times. Never mind that he visited troops of all ranks while in Kuwait and Iraq.

Try searching for images of McCain with deployed troops. If you can find one photo that is comparable with the photos of Obama engaged in conversation with troops of all ranks (not just the generals), then I'll donate $$ to any charity of your choice.

[Political Heretic]

88. Let me explain, without bashing your post, why I believe this is a non-issue:

Because the successes of his trip so exponentially outweigh even what lying, distorting, disingenuous hay-makers could make out of this, that it can not elevate itself to a story.

The media asks, why didn't you go and Obama says, because I did not want it to be seen as a campaign event. There's very little that the media can milk from this.

And at this point, if anyone still has doubts about Obama's ability to respond to McCain campaignp attempts to attack on this, they haven't been paying much attention.

On a side note - there's no way that I'm aware of for him to "go alone." The press would absolutely go with him. Even without staff, he would still have been slammed for "campaigning" at wounded soldier's expense.

[bklyncowgirl]

89. If Obama does not slap this thing down hard and fast it WILL be a campaign blunder

Call me Chicken Little but I'm getting those same uneasy feelings in my stomach that I did when I first heard about those Swift Boat guys four years ago.

I think that Obama was damned if he went and damned if he didn't go to the military hospital. My personal feeling is that he should have gone alone in a quiet private visit to the troops, but whatever his decision, they needed to have a strategy in place to explain and back up and counterpunch when the inevetable McCain crap his the fan.

The Obama campaign got caught flat-footed on this one. That's unusual for them, by the way, but ignoring this thing in the hopes that it's going to go away is not a good idea at all. This is the sort of thing that will have legs.

I'm hoping to see some aggressive counterpunching by Barack Obama on this when he's on Meet the Press today.

[TwilightGardener]

93. Jack Reed and Chuck Hagel both said it would have been INAPPROPRIATE

for him to go, and that he did the right thing by NOT going. Are you going to argue with them--both veterans, both Senators?

[treestar]

94. No, because then it would have been

"Using them to make campaign points."

He's visited plenty of them.

McLame has done the same.

Since 911, they have been used by politicians one way or the other. Obama decided not to use them. He should get credit for that.

McInsane still uses them to try to gain support. The wrongness of this must be pointed out.