Confrontation over a pro bush book in church this AM

[greenbriar]

This morning, there was a table set up outside the sanctuary with a man behind it selling books for $15.00

#1. I have a problem with this from the start, I don't believe church is a place for this.

I went to the table to see what the book was and it was written by Gene Williams....GEorge Bush, Bill Frist, Billy Graham, Oral Hershiser Men of Faith...something


My husband grabbed my arm and said, come on dear, leave it alone...


well we went in and set down, the more I thought about it, the more I got mad. I excused myself told my hubby I had to use the RR before church started

but instead, I went to the table. He said Hello, I said Did you write this filth???

How you can equate bush as a man of faith in the same category as Billy Graham is beyond me. He is no more of a man of faith than satan. I went on to tell him he was using the "church" to sell his agenda and asked him if he was a member of PNAC. He acted like he did not know of that...yea right...

I left after I could not contain myself, and walked away before it got ugly and as I was walking away, he said WAIT>>>I will give you a copy if you will read it. (I should have taken it) I told him the only place that book would end up at my house would be for fire place starter, or toilet paper.


I am so furiousssssssssssssssssssssssss

[Warpy]

1. A lecture on Jesus driving the money changers from the temple

would have been in order. The money changers were selling offerings for sacrifice. These jerks were selling unchristian lies to sway an election.

A call to your state department of revenue and taxation, followed by a letter detailing everything, would be in order. Threatening your church's tax exempt status is the quickest way to get it out of politics.

Churches don't belong in politics, and vice versa.

[Racenut20]

2. You need to discuss this with your pastor and go to the next

Church board meeting for sure.

[LiberalFighter]

13. Not likely to be permitted to speak at board meetings

most churches don't permit females to be present at the meetings.

[MasonJar]

14. What! Which churches do not allow women at board meetings?

In the Episcopal Church women are on the vestry; they are priests; they are valued for their equality.

[LiberalFighter]

15. Lutheran for one

Only men can be elders
Only men can vote on financial and other issues.

Of course that may not be all Lutheran synods

[Morning Dew]

19. Wisconsin and Missouri synods are like that

Prolly not the ELCA, though - raised Lutheran but haven't been a member since '78 or so. That was before the merger of the ALC, the LCA and the AELC(?).

[LiberalFighter]

33. Yep... Wisconsin is the one that I knew

[Kanary]

31. Is that why I know several women Lutheran pastors?

Maybe *they're* "not allowed in church meetings"?

Kanary

[blondeatlast]

21. Excuse me???

To what church are you referring???

[swag]

3. One of my favorite parts of the New Testament

John 2:13-16, when Christ drove the merchants out of the temple.

Your Atheist friend,

swag

[cynatnite]

4. This is the reason why I detest organized religion

The last church I was in was promoting a political flyer.

Cyn:)

[AmerDem]

5. If you felt so deeply why don't you

make a case to your preacher and congregation about this. How anyone particapates in relgious services when they have so many disagreements with the specific religion is beyond me.I see this all the time. I was raised Catholic and at a very young age I said to myself "i'm outa here".

You are no closer to the lord in a church then you are in your own home praying.

[greenbriar]

12. I love my church, this was a total anomoly to happen...

I am at a loss

[salin]

24. Speak to your minister - and tell him that you are concerned

about "getting caught" by the IRS and losing nonprofit status... you know, those guidelines ... and the line that shouldn't be crossed about politics... Coming at it from that direction may get him not only to think... but to act the next time someone wants to hawk books promoting specific political action.

[demosincebirth]

18. I'm a Catholic...

and I have never heard a priest talk about politics during one of their sermons. I don't agree with all that the Church teaches, but they leave politics alone in my diocese. Many priests that I know are more to the left than they are to the right and many are active in the peace movement. If my parish priests tried to promote a candidate during their sermons, I would surely let them know how I felt...especially if it was pro Bush.

[blondeatlast]

22. Many of us get great comfort and fellowship at church, temple, etc.

Of course, I attend UU services, so I feel very fortunate.

But your experience does not spread to everyone.

[GaryL]

6. Could be skirting the edge of IRS rules.

Any book that actively promotes a political party or person can't be sold on church grounds. My sister attends a militant church and the pastor/preacher or whatever he is drools over GW every Sunday and I'm attempting to get his non profit status removed.

[PA Democrat]

7. Real Men Real Faith

Real Men, Real Faith


By: Gene Williams

Produced by: Beacon Hill Press of Kansas City

Book
083-412-1352
Price: $14.99



About This Product


Both national and personal tragedies cause us to ask the question, "Where is God when we're hurting?" Discover the common thread of faith in our Father that sustains, regardless of the devastations of life. Real Men, Real Faith is filled with stories of faith that are shared by godly men from around the world. Featuring President George W. Bush, Franklin Graham, Reggie White, Paul Burnham (father-in-law of Gracia Burnham) and many more! Celebrate God's faithfulness to His people and join these men as they share their inspirational journeys.

160 pages.

http://www.nph.com/nphweb/html/bhol/itempage.jsp?itemId=083-412-1352

[greenbriar]

8. thats it!!!!!!!!!!!!

exactly..

and by him selling them at church, for $15.00 isn't he skirting his own IRS issues???????????????

[PA Democrat]

9. I would argue that Bush

1. Is NOT a "real" man
2. Does not have "real" faith (in anything other than the lust for the almighty dollar)

[liberal N proud]

10. That would be me and my wife would be pulling on my arm.

All you have to do is ask these people What Would Jesus Do? and put it in the context of the things dubya has done.
Also make sure you show them Websters definition of Liberalism, that always get them boiling.
I have had a little experience in this, I too attend a church where the Neocons have made their political association known and that they assume all Christians are Repubies.
Don't get mad at them, just confront them with the truth. It knocks them over every time.

[cynatnite]

11. Also point out

that if this was Clinton, the repukes would be screaming, protesting, and just out right going insane until their heads exploded.

They need to face their own hypocrisy and Jesus has some great talking points that would shut these money changers up.

Cyn:)

[greenbriar]

16. sigh...so true

so true

[peaches2003]

17. Where was your pastor?

I would have demanded an answer from my pastor right then, this morning, before or if need be DURING the service. It would have been the last time I woould have set foot in that church anyway, so I would have stood up during the service and demanded an answer on what my church is doing promoting one candidate in an election. Of course they would have said they were just selling literature about men of faith, but you would have gotten the truth out and maybe made some people think for once in their lives.

[dmr]

32. Just selling literature -

- that has Bush* in it. And as you say that is what their excuse would be.

But my question is: What about equal time?

Would something like this apply in a church? That is if it doesn't violate their tax free status?

Didn't they stop showing Ronald Reagan movies during his campaigns? (not that anyone would watch them). Of course that was way back in the 'olden' days, many laws and restrictions have changed. We certainly don't see equal time on the news channels today as they give mountains of air time to that ass.

I'm just wondering out loud ...

[noamnety]

20. next week bring a camera

Take a photo of his table with the book on it, and make sure he sees you taking the photos. Let him know you are just checking into the legality of it. That may be more powerful and less confrontational than anything else you can do.

[blondeatlast]

23. Offer to lend out copies of "Crusade: Chronicles of an Unjust War"

by James Carroll.

Awesome book for people of faith trying to make sense of Bush's agenda. I highly, highly recommend it.

[rullery]

25. George W. Bush in NO man of faith!

Yesterday I saw Keith Olberman's show on MSNBC. He quoted one of the Iraqi Olympic soccer players who resented Bush using them to further his campaign. He said of Bush,

"How can he face his God when he has slaughtered so many men and women?"

The fact that this book would include Bush shows it up to be no more than a political tract. I would strongly protest this to your pastor and/or church board.

[greenbriar]

26. I intend to do something

I just don't know what to do.


by the way, this is a Southern Baptist Church

[grasswire]

27. switch to an American Baptist church

Same hymns, but a tradition of social justice and peacemaking, instead of hate and fear.

Really. Try one out.

[Cha]

29. And let's not forget that bush's own

church leader of the Methodist was Against this Iraqi Invasion. bush didn't listen to any of them..he said God told him to do it.

So it didn't matter what the intelligence said.

[greenbriar]

30. wish god would tell him to jump off the sanfran bridge

or the observatory at the empire state building

[Southern Patriot]

28. What denomination do you attend?

This is wrong on so many levels that I can't beleive other church members didn't complain. Was the table on church property? If it was then the guy had to have permission. If he had permission then it WASN'T and anomaly.

You need to squelch this kind of behaviour immediately--- or find a new church because it'll only get worse.