Either disown the ad, or everythng is on the table!...Kerry campaign

[Leilani]

Just reported on NBC Evening News...I know it s late, but I am in Hawaii.

I think Kerry is seriously irked!!!!

The Kerry people said either Bush disowns the ad, or EVERYTHING is on the table, & you know what that means....AWOL!!!!

I think this is terrific, & the only way to handle a bully.

[murielm99]

1. No...

He can get off the hook by disowning the ad. It is too late for that.

* will just lie.

Let everything be on the table. Bring it on!

[LynnTheDem]

39. He can't disown the ad now...

Lookit this google cache dated August 19, 2004;

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:7Mtcv7gCB14J:www.georgewbush.com/Veterans/SteeringCommittee.aspx+Cordier+NAM-POWs.&hl=en

Scroll down to Kenneth Cordier. Cordier appears in the latest SB Liars ad. And yet he's listed on the bush/Cheney 04 campaign website.

That is, he WAS...his name has since been dropped down the memory hole.

But we have the google cache. :D

[Piperay]

41. "Bring it on"

and dump it all on chimpy! :evilgrin:

[Zen Democrat]

2. AWOL ... and COCAINE ..... and MY PET GOAT!

Go get 'em, John! I love this. The ball is in Karl's Kourt.

[Erika]

5. Go Kerry!

He told Bush to "bring it on" if he wanted to debate Nam. Bush brought it on and Kerry slapped a suit against him telling him to shut up or put up. What do you think Bushco will do?

[sventvkg]

3. Good!!! Finally growing some political balls!!!! I'm very happy.

Kill em.

[swag]

4. I hadn't seen it paraphrased that way earlier

but now that I have, I wonder what sort of opposition research the Kerry Camp has that might be loosed if this shit goes on much longer.

[jwirr]

18. evidence

If you have not seen the other thread here tonight - they just caught the Repugs passing out fliers advertising a Vet Liars Event in Florida. That may have something to do with it.

[DBoon]

22. There must be much more than that

I would not doubt that they have some inside information about financials ties and so forth that are very damning. The flyers are just the most obvious public manifestation of this.

[Leilani]

6. I think Bush started this

Kerry is going to finish it.

[senseandsensibility]

7. Sorry, I've been out this evening

and haven't seen any news. Is this being covered on all the evening news programs?

[Leilani]

11. Yes, it was NBC Evening News

Brian Williams was host...

it was reported by Carl Kantania (spelling?) on the trail with Kerry.

[Nite Owl]

8. So he's got * cornered.

If he disowns now he looks like he caved, if he doesn't well this is going to be fun.

[Eric J in MN]

9. The MoveOn PAC ad almost says Bush went AWOL.

It says Bush "went missing." You can watch the ad in Quicktime by clicking below:

https://www.moveonpac.org/donate/swiftresponse.html

[incapsulated]

10. Did they really?

Well, well... :)

[opihimoimoi]

13. Kerry should include Bush almost went AWOL during the first

8 months of his term. He did NOTHING about Terrorism despite being warned and advised....instead went golfing.....

[shraby]

56. Bush better watch out now,

Kerry is turning his boat into the enemy and he's coming ashore!

[Leilani]

12. They reported that Kerry really wanted to talk about the issues.

but was being diverted by this crap.

I think Kerry just shot one across their bow.

[opihimoimoi]

20. Then nothing prevents Kerry from bringing up the issues

and he should...ask the questions::

1. Where is your Business Plan for America...? So far, we have seen nothing fruitful. Tax Cuts did not work despite you're saying so. Too many Jobs lost under your watch. Out of control spending for dubious reasons, National debt is 7 trillion and growing... we are hurting our children Mr President, we are saddling them with interest payments for your wars....

2. Where are the plans for the Future, Mr President? How do we cope with a growing food defecit? Global Warming?

3. Why is your administration anti research?

Com on guys, add to the list.

[Leilani]

23. The problem is

Kerry HAS been talking issues...

The press does not report it...

All they talk about is this other stuff.

[opihimoimoi]

29. Then put it into ad form....ask the questions and watch the results...

[Leilani]

30. Good idea...

Different ads for different problems...

I have seen an ad about Health Care...Kerry has a plan to deal with it etc.

I really think they are trying to do issues, but internal polling must show that the attacks are working. Therefore, they must shut down the smears, in order to be heard.

[DaveinMD]

14. The last two days

have been great for Kerry. The tide is turning. Kerry is a tough SOB. Many opponents have underestimated this man. I think Bush has made the same mistake.

[iwantmycountryback]

16. It seems there's a history of Kerry's opponents underestimating him

And Bush can now be added to that list of "misunderestimaters." Kerry has Bush by the freaking balls. Onward and upwards John.

[Virginian]

15. Does anyone know what's in the new Swift Boat ad, airing Tues?

I understand these swift boat people have released a second ad but haven't bought time for it until Tuesday. Does anyone know what's in it?

[incapsulated]

17. See it here:

http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_video2.html

[Leilani]

19. The 2nd ad has been shown already

at least on the news...

It is film of Kerry testifying about war atrocities, & comments from Swiftboat vets.

[Gloria]

25. The ad takes his testimony completely out of context. It implies that

Kerry made the accusations, while in fact, he was reporting what he heard at a meeting he attended in Detroit.

I want to see Kerry address this distortion directly---no hanging back on this, PLEASE!!!

[Sugarbleus]

24. I thought I was watching a clip of it today...

correct me if I'm behind here; what I saw was shots of young kerry before the senate testifying about the "atrocities" having been committed by soldiers in Viet Nam. His voice is in the piece telling of rapes, beheadings, cutting off limbs, killing randomly, razing villages like Ghengis Khan, etc etc. In the foreground are these vets saying how much these words hurt them more than an actual wound. They felt like Kerry's testimony caused them more harm and shame especially after they got back stateside. They felt that Kerry dishonored their service by doing what he did.

Is this old news or new news, anyone know? That's what I saw today.

[incapsulated]

26. That was it

This was playing on the news media, although I don't think the ad starts running on it's own until next week.

[Sugarbleus]

28. Ok, thanks...

It will be interesting to see how we deal with THAT ad. Time to get out the high waders and safty glasses for next week eh?

GO JOHN/JOHN!!

[LynnTheDem]

40. The usual RWW trick

Cut off the important bits that put things into context.

Kerry NEVER accused soldiers of atrocities; he was only referring to the TESTIMONIES GIVEN by other soldiers;

"I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command....

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

http://www.urich.edu/~ebolt/history398/JohnKerryTestimony.html

But RWWs instead leave off that little "THEY TOLD" part. Kinda changes the entire context doing that, dontcha think.

edited to correct html code

[Sugarbleus]

45. Exactly. With things coming apart over these recent smears, I

think (I hope)the entire events of that time will come to full light. I know his appearance before the senate ticked off a lot of gung ho vets that misunderstood his intentions.

I'm hopeful the Kerry/Edwards campaign will just blast through all the crap and spin that'll be tossed at them in coming days.

GO JOHN/JOHN!! :bounce:

[Dogmudgeon]

21. Hmmm ...

Right as the Olympics ends ...

Right as the 'Publican National Convention begins ...

... John Kerry draws a line in the sand, and Bush trips over it.

Bush then goes to the Convention, as hot as Michelle Malkin after her own well-deserved spanking (by Tweety, none the less), intent on avenging his bruised ego in full view of the United States of America and the world, all at a time when every news junkie in America can devote full attention to the SwiftLiars' scandal.

A perfect venue in which to convince Joe Six-Pack that John Kerry shot his own America-hating (allegedly) self in the byoo-tocks just to get a medal.

Of course, if it becomes All About Vietnam, there's the small matter of the unexplained absences of a certain Lt. Bush from the Texas Air National Guard during the height of that conflict.

The GOP is starting to remind me of the corrupt power-freaks in the Kremlin who brought their own Communist empire down in just such a brazen power grab. A week after they started it, they were in hiding, cowering and quivering, half of them drunk, and Boris Yeltsin was perched on top of a Soviet tank with a bullhorn in full sight of the international press.

As they used to say in the Golden Age of Television, "Stay Tuned!"

--bkl

[marlakay]

27. They are going to fight big on this one!

This is my favorite paragraph in the article in msnbc.com about it. It tells me how they are going to fight back.


"Out of desperation, the Bush campaign has picked the wrong fight with the wrong veteran,” said Jim Jordan, former Kerry campaign manager who now runs an outside group airing ads against Bush. “Today’s the start of the mother of all backlashes.”

[Doosh]

51. "the mother of all backlashes"

well said :)

we were worried.........they were ready.

[iwantmycountryback]

31. Chimp is going to get mauled for this

You attack us with dirty liars, we respond with the TRUTH! Bush is very thin-skinned, I think we are going to see even more speaking slips from him as he will get nervous in his anger. The man is going to go down disgracefully.

[Guaranteed]

32. Let's do it.

We're going to destroy him.

[NightOwwl]

35. And I'm going to savor every moment of his destruction. n/t

[Nordic]

33. Good! To "fight dirty" against Bush, you just tell the frikking truth!

and I WANT the truth to come out for the American people to see.

It's about fucking time.

Go for it, Kerry. There's no mud to sling, there are only the facts about Bush's miserable loser life.

[oasis]

34. Yummy.

[nomatrix]

36. Let's pick this scab until it bleeds

http://www.pbs.org/greatspeeches/timeline/j_kerry_s.html

Kerry's Winter Soldier Speech

(Notice this is listed as great speeches)

"I would like to say for the record, and also for the men sitting behind me who are also wearing the uniforms and their medals, that my sitting here is really symbolic. I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of a group of 1,000, which is a small representation of a very much larger group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table, they would be here and have the same kind of testimony. I would simply like to speak in general terms. I apologize if my statement is general because I received notification yesterday that you would hear me, and, I am afraid, because of the injunction I was up most of the night and haven't had a great deal of chance to prepare.

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago, in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged, and many very highly decorated, veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia. These were not isolated incidents, but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis, with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit--the emotions in the room, and the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told stories that, at times, they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam,in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

We call this investigation the Winter Soldier Investigation. The term "winter soldier" is a play on words of Thomas Paine's in 1776, when he spoke of the "sunshine patriots," and "summertime soldiers" who deserted at Valley Forge because the going was rough."

[nomatrix]

Please don't miss this part

"In our opinion, and from our experience, there is nothing in South Vietnam which could happen that realistically threatens the United States of America. And to attempt to justify the loss of one American life in Vietnam, Cambodia, or Laos by linking such loss to the preservation of freedom, which those misfits supposedly abuse, is to us the height of criminal hypocrisy, and it is that kind of hypocrisy which we feel has torn this country apart."

Since the Swift boaters loved his speech so much, they should have used the part that fits today, 35 yrs later.

[nomatrix]

38. Last one

"We wish that a merciful God could wipe away our own memories of that service as easily as this administration has wiped away their memories of us. But all that they have done, and all that they can do by this denial, is to make more clear than ever our own determination to undertake one last mission: To search out and destroy the last vestige of this barbaric war; to pacify our own hearts; to conquer the hate and fear that have driven this country these last ten years and more. And more. And so, when, thirty years from now, our brothers go down the street without a leg, without an arm, or a face, and small boys ask why, we will be able to say "Vietnam" and not mean a desert, not a filthy obscene memory, but mean instead where America finally turned, and where soldiers like us helped it in the turning."

[LynnTheDem]

42. Every time RWWs say Kerry accused the soldiers of atrocities...

1) Point out to them that if the RWWs included the first part of Kerry's sentance; "THEY TOLD THE STORIES" they had personally raped...", instead of only posting the "they had personally raped..." part, then they could, with any luck, have enough brain capacity to understand that Kerry NEVER accused ANY soldiers of atrocities; he was simply pointing out what THEY the soldiers had THEMSELVES testified to.

-Highly doubtful that any RWWs have the brain capacity to understand this, nor to give a damn, but it's always worth saving any savable rightwingnuts.

2) Kerry was criticizing the US governemtn, NOT the soldiers.

-Highly doubtful that any RWWs have the brain capacity to understand this, nor to give a damn, but it's always worth saving any savable rightwingnuts.

[markses]

53. This story shall the good man tell his son

What's he that wishes so?
My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin;
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires.
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian.'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispian's day.'
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words-
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

[DU GrovelBot]

37. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

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[emulatorloo]

43. Esquire Mag, June 04 - re "everything on the table" is way more than AWOL

http://www.democrats.us/beta/forum/view_topic.php?id=1462&forum_id=12&jump_to=6554

The Misunderestimation of John Kerry
Beware of this man. He's won every race that he was supposed to lose.

by Charles P. Pierce | Jun 01 '04

<snip>

This is something else people should know about John Kerry: When you lose to him, he finishes you. Which is why it should have been a caution to the president when an anonymous Kerry advisor replied that if the White House were to go after Kerry on his divorce, or his wife's money, or some other area that Kerry deemed out of bounds, then "everything is on the table."

This should be taken as a warning to George W. Bush not only for his own predilections for bunker government but also those of his father. In the 1980s, while John Kerry was involved in investigating the complicated and obscure scandals that kept popping up out of the renegade national-security apparatus, the elder George Bush ran between the raindrops. The scandals swirled all around him, but they never quite touched him. He campaigned for president in 1988 while claiming to be "out of the loop" on the Iran-contra affair. Four years later, after he was defeated by Bill Clinton for reelection, it was revealed that contemporary notes taken by some of the Iran-contra principal actors gave the lie to that claim. Bush pardoned everyone except Shoeless Joe Jackson on his way out of town.

In 2001, almost immediately after taking office, George W. Bush took a series of actions that seemed to complete his father's legacy in this regard. First, by executive order, he sealed documents from the administrations of both his father and of Ronald Reagan—Clinton's papers got sealed along with the deal—that were due to be released and for which historians of the period had long hungered. Then he hired back a number of Iran-contra's most memorable figures, including Elliott Abrams, whom his father had pardoned, and John Negroponte. Long before the attacks of September 11, 2001, gave it irresistible momentum, a movement toward a return to bunkered government was well under way, led by some of the people with connections to both Presidents Bush, and with whom Kerry was very familiar. Now, increasingly, it seems that this election will be fought out partly in the shadowy regions between a government with secrets and a secret government, with that difference squarely on the table. That's terrain on which John Kerry has fought—at one point, quite literally—his entire public life.

<snip>

[Papillon]

49. Great article. Thanks!!!

I've sent it on to friends.

[bushwakker]

44. Kerry campaign needs to stop talking about getting tough

and actually get into the gutter with a switchblade. It's the only way. Sorry to all the judo and chess fans. The experience that has shaped this man's life has been put into question. The citizens of this country expect him to fight back. If he can't defend himself then he can't defend us.

[DisgustedTX]

46. It is time for the AWOL deserter & closet gay (Victor Ashe?) to pay

A change is gonna' come.

[Fleshdancer]

47. Paging Larry Flynt Paging Larry Flynt

:evilgrin:

[ItsMyParty]

48. I don't think Kerry's threatening just some Swiftboat shit at all.........

(and I see someone a couple clicks up posted an article accordingly). Damn right----he's talking about how he can now dump all sorts of shit on Bush on all subjects (including personal things). In fact did you see on Olberman last night, Mr. O'Donnell (is that his name---columnist/reporter who is very pro-Dem). He suggested that some of what has gone on was like expected by Kerry and was bait to get Bush into this position so that they now have the excuse to attack him. Maybe this is Kerry putting some old lawyer tricks to work on Mr. Rove. I imagine after seeing what they did to McCain he knew they would do this to him (if nothing else he expected they would be going after his protest era and/or try to equate him with bin Laden like they did Max).....maybe this is Kerry "CLOSING" just as people who knew him predicts he will.

[Kahuna]

50. That's right. The bushies are slime. They have no issues to run

on so their only strategy is to bloody Kerry so badly until voters will vote for, 'the devil they know.' Pathetic.

[PopSixSquish]

52. "Everything is on the Table"

That was the shot across the bow. There's more than just the AWOL stories out there and the Kerry campaign might just have the info.

Sic 'em John!

[Walt Starr]

54. There's the fact that Georgie wears ribbons he wasn't awarded

:evilgrin:

[Karenina]

58. Wie bitte???

Run that back again, please.

[Bimini_Twisted]

55. It's nice to see a little offense for a change.

[oldtime dfl_er]

57. Compare and contrast....

Wouldn't it be lovely if we could find out what little George was doing on the exact day John Kerry was saving a comrade and earning a Silver Star? Compare and contrast...drinkin' and smirkin' vs. heroism under fire!

[Toots]

59. And these guys thought THEY knew intimidation

Bring it On!!!!