Well are'nt we the smart ones. Leaving Clark out there. We are just so smart it's cute.

[Neshanic]

Amazing how everything remains the same in a world of "change". Clark lays out some very good points. Obama team leaves him out in the field.

This is how we lose elections, getting cute with the same old same old.

What did we hear last go round with Kerry?

"Political judo"

"We don't have to go there."

"It's no big thing."

Ahhhhh....change, it's refreshing.

[Pirate Smile]

1. Getting into a debate on McCain's military service has never been a part of the Obama campaign's

plan.

Hey, Obama gave a big speech today on patriotism. Did you hear about it? Probably not.

[Divine Discontent]

3. the MSM rarely tells of the good of Obama, but I did hear about it from

my relative... she said it was great!

[MadMaddie]

38. Yes...and Clark was defending Obama

What's missing from all of the MSM coverage is the question that was asked before Clark answered....the reporter insinuated that because McCain was shot down that qualified him for President and Clark rebutted that argument.

It's the same ole MSM and we allowed them to distort the truth again. Dan Abrams punk ass tried to get Clark to apologize and Clark wouldn't.

Why is it that the truth is such a terrible thing?

[Divine Discontent]

2. well I HOPE that it was planned

for Clark to say those things, and that Obama didn't just reject Clark's own words, because a General should be allowed to say, crashing a jet doesn't mean you are qualified to be a president... there's nothing wrong with that. I thought it was interesting to note, the day after Clark says that, Obama says his torture is off limits.... huh?


and I thought Schieffer's Fox-like shock from his words was a bit ridiculous - time to retire, Bob! A general can't say crashing a plane doesn't mean you're without question qualified to be a president???

I still think Clark has a shot at this VP thing... Webb moved up closer to him b/c of this, unless it was planned to get that political fact out, to McCain, but I'm thinking it wasn't planned, but my relative said that's how they do it, and so I hope that's the case indeed! cuz it was GOOD! :)

[Hippo_Tron]

4. IT WAS COORDINATED

Clark did not say a damn thing thing on Face the Nation that he didn't plan out beforehand with Obama's strategists. His strategists aren't idiots and they knew that on Monday, McGramps would go apeshit and Obama would have to distance himself from it.

Clark got the message out and Obama appears "above the fray". Nobody is leaving Clark out in the field. This is how you play the game.

[Neshanic]

5. "Game playing". That got us two terms of Bush.

[Divine Discontent]

6. gobama! eom

[Neshanic]

8. Thanks...I wish it was only two years.

[FrenchieCat]

9. I believe that not playing the game well enough is what got us

8 years of Bush.

[Hippo_Tron]

10. Yea because Kerry and Gore didn't play well enough

Bush never praised the Swift Boat Liars yet they still had an effect. Obama won't praise Clark but his comments will still have the intended effect.

[rox63]

7. The Obama campaign is trying to push McCain's buttons and get him to blow his stack on teevee

They want to see that famous McCain temper.

[Hippo_Tron]

11. BINGO

The whole idea is to get McCain to lash out with "HOW DARE HE QUESTION ME I WAS A POW!!!!!"

And then Obama calmly responds with "Well I never said that. Perhaps Senator McCain should take it up with General Clark."

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

13. McCain certainly was doing a lot of rapid blinking this morning

and looked like a coil spring ready to release.

[MercutioATC]

18. What would it take to make McCain scream "Fuck You!" in a debate?

God, I'd love to know exactly what button to push...

[Hippo_Tron]

23. I'm sure Obama's staff is trying to figure that out...

[Divine Discontent]

24. hey, gotta idea - let's see if we can find out! :) eom

[razors edge]

27. Wouldn't be too hard.

Start of praising his service by referencing the fact you have no idea how difficult it must have been to continue climbing in the cockpit time and again after so many crashes...

Go on to imply that even after being tortured into making propaganda films for the enemy for five years, the Senator has gone on to show he was in fact a hero of the highest caliber by serving so long, in the US Senate...

If that doesn't do it, wrap it up in the final comments by thanking both of their wives for their support and tireless efforts to not only sound good but look good on the trail as well, sometimes waking up after only two hours sleep looking almost like a trollop...

[Divine Discontent]

36. HA

Obama may, hey you never know, say in that gracious tone - "hey, this is a brave man who after crashing, what is it John three? four times? got back in the cockpit for his country - he has no fear!" LOL

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

32. talk about his combover?

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Neshanic]

15. I don't either. Not for one minute. Clark is his own guy. He says what he wants.

[Hippo_Tron]

17. Not when he's appearing as an Obama surrogate he doesn't

He coordinated with the campaign just like every other surrogate does.

[Hippo_Tron]

16. Too chicken? This is what they've been doing all along!!

Do you remember the "losing his bearings" comment that Obama made a few months ago. They know McCain has a temper and the idea is to get him to lose it as much as possible.

Obama didn't climb his way to the head of his party at age 47 without knowing how to play hardball.

[faithfulcitizen]

28. Yea, what you said! Wes Clark is the "real deal". The O campaign is just knee-jerk reacting, imo.

[Sparkly]

29. Baloney.

Very inelegant "coordination."

The message is NOT out -- a completely distorted bit of spin is out there, being used against General Clark. The truth is not being used against John McCain.

[JackORoses]

14. get a new spiel, neshanic. This one ain't selling round hya!

[bunnies]

19. Here we go again!

:eyes:

[thewiseguy]

20. You were never on Obama's ship anyway.

[Neshanic]

21. Oh Jesus, will you give it up? I am voting for him.

[ladjf]

22. I don't think we should be too quick to count Obama out on the

Clark statement situation. Its possible that the best strategy is for (1) Clark to make the statement which opens the door to some good new looks at exactly what McCain did in the military that qualifies him to be President and (2) Obama stays out of it.

During the campaign numerous issue arise that we either are for or against. The candidate should stick to his main agenda and not get bogged down in "I support this" or "I don't support that".

[Neshanic]

25. Scenarios...

1. Obama camp tells Clark to go out and lightly go after McCain. They have plan (which apparently has been posted widely on the internets), that they will disavow and this will piss off the old man. They want him to go all Jack Nicholson in public.

Result. Pisses off Clark supporters. Pisses off republicans that are very unsympathetic to McCain. They all come to his defense, even the ones that said the same thing about him that Clark did. Obama gives speech and lays Clark out. Some Democrats still pissed. Republicans get tighter with McCain. Nutso/screemfest from McCain not forthcoming.

2. Clark just wings it. Obama camp appalled. Must make denouncement. Tells Clark to basically stuff it.

Result. Pisses off Clark supporters. Pisses off republicans. Obama comes across as manipulator that will say what he needs to distance himself. Opens whole Vietnam gig, which of course will be opened soon anyway, but this gives Obama, wait for it....a position to say he thought what Clark said was nasty. This little item will be repeated again and again until it becomes tiresome when the laser focus of McCain being a war hero is cemented into people's ears. Not people here, but the ones that actually vote by listening to the MSM.

What a day.

[ladjf]

26. I doubt that Clark actually coordinated the statement with the Obama

campaign. That would have been too dangerous.

It's more likely that Clark realized that the "McCain, War Hero" shield was a roadblock to the objective critique of McCain's qualifications to be President. So, he knew that he was the most qualified one to launch a salvo that pointed out the difference between "war hero" and being qualified for the Presidency. Clark knew that he would take "hits", but, so what, he's not the candidate.

He also probably surmised that Obama would stay clear of the fray while the media and everyone else talked about it. Yes, the Republicans would whine like hell. But, the net result would be that somewhere along the way, many would stop to think,"yes, McCain was a war hero. He suffered on America's behalf. However, that experience in now enhanced his abilities and skills to serve as the Commander in Chief.

The score on this one, Republicans 40, Democrats 60.

Good move by Clark. He might have earned the VP slot if you wants it.

[razors edge]

30. I was a Clark supporter early on last time,

It didn't offend this vet that Obama distanced himself from remarks that would possibly cause an awkward situation for him at a latter time. He's running for pres, not Clark.

If some vets liked Clark for his service and jumped to McCain due to his service, then maybe Clark just warned a bunch of them off. Think about that.

Who cares about pissed off republicans anyway, their voting for McCain or staying home.

[windbreeze]

31. What a day indeed...

I am a Clark supporter, and I can tell you for sure that Obama's campaign pissed this one off...now I don't know what the hell the deal was supposed to be...but Clark said nothing he shouldn't have said...and furthermore, no one has the right to say it, any more than Clark does....IF this is politics...I hate it...but then I hate mind games played by anyone...I wanted to jump into the TV and grab that Tara bitch by the throat and throttle her..I quit watching cable news on that February day in 2004 when Clark quit, and I shouldn't have watched that program tonight, all it did was refresh memories that still bleed when poked...wb

[lojasmo]

33. This is brilliant gamesmanship.

Just because you don't understand, doesn't make it bad strategy.

[Neshanic]

34. I'm not the one Obama needs. He already has my vote. The sublime is lost on Joe six pack.

That's why we lose. This shit.

Either we need to admit that the republicans are better at "game playing" in elections or just maybe, just fucking maybe, they get the messsages out that they need to the people they want with clarity, be it lies or propoganda.

What do you think?

[renate]

35. I'll admit I haven't been glued to the tube all day, but...

... it looks bad to me--partly because I hate to see my guy smeared, but also because it looks like the MSM is all "OMG, you did NOT go there! McCain is a war hero, blah blah blah" instead of focusing on "Oh, yeah, good point, being in the military doesn't mean you have experience in making wartime command decisions."

I have a terrible feeling about this... I really hope the people who say this is a chess game are right. For now, I am so pissed at Obama--or, at least, at his campaign advisers, whom he ought to be questioning a little more closely--that I could spit.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

37. Your concern is duly noted. nt

[jgraz]

39. Dude, you post this every time. Don't you have anything real to say?

Seriously, this is the dialectic equivalent of throwing the gun after you've run out of bullets. If you have some actual rebuttal, please post it. Otherwise, quit calling people concern trolls.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

40. Do a search on this OP's posts and draw your own conclusions. nt

[jgraz]

41. I honestly don't care enough to put in the effort.

This post, however, raises some good points. And they'd still be good points even if Karl Rove himself had posted them.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

42. You cared enough to snipe at me, though.

As for his "good points", meh.

[jgraz]

43. Because every criticism of Obama *I* post gets that same response

And I know what you'll find if you check my posts.