"Obama Rebukes Clark"

[jefferson_dem]

I raised "the bus question" earlier.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6430178

I guess we have the answer, according to the media meme.

Obama Rebukes Clark

Posted by Michael Scherer | Comments (33) | Permalink | Trackbacks (0) | Email This

The McCain campaign would love to keep talking about Wesley Clark's weekend comment--that McCain "getting shot down" during Vietnam is no credential for commander in chief. Indeed, even as Obama speaks on patriotism in Missouri, McCain is holding a presser in Pennsylvania to discuss the Clark comment.

But Obama just took a big step to end the back and forth. (While wearing his flag pin, no less!) It sure sounds to me like this line from his speech rebukes Clark's comment.

Beyond a loyalty to America’s ideals, beyond a willingness to dissent on behalf of those ideals, I also believe that patriotism must, if it is to mean anything, involve the willingness to sacrifice – to give up something we value on behalf of a larger cause. For those who have fought under the flag of this nation – for the young veterans I meet when I visit Walter Reed; for those like John McCain who have endured physical torment in service to our country – no further proof of such sacrifice is necessary. And let me also add that no one should ever devalue that service, especially for the sake of a political campaign, and that goes for supporters on both sides. We must always express our profound gratitude for the service of our men and women in uniform. Period. Full stop.

Sure enough, just as I was about to publish this blog post, I got an email from Obama spokesman Bill Burton: "As he's said many times before, Senator Obama honors and respects Senator McCain's service, and of course he rejects yesterday's statement by General Clark."

So much for Vice President Clark.

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/06/obama_rebukes_clark.html

[cbc5g]

1. Democrats cowering to the RW media and RW'ers again

This better be some sort of politics and strategy on the Obama teams part because if not the Republicans know they can bully the media and the Democrats over literally ANYTHING.

[Ian David]

5. You know, it's really convenient that General Clark provided President Obama this opportunity...

... to show that he won't Swift Boat McCain's military service.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/04/09/07_purple.html

[eleny]

10. Agreed

[Ian David]

16. I wonder which was written first... Obama's speech rebuking Clark, or the article he was rebuking.

I'm just wondering, is all.

[eleny]

30. I'm thinking it was all done at one planning session

Time being precious, and all. :D

[JuniperLea]

49. It's not swiftboating if it's the truth

The swiftboaters lied. There is a huge difference.

[faithfulcitizen]

50. I completely agree.

[BOSSHOG]

2. General Clark was absolutely right

Being left handed is no credential for commander in chief or being shot down over North Vietnam. Neither is an automatic pass or ban. Hopefully we won't be listening to Obama "rebuking" his allies for the next four months for something they say that can be twisted horribly by the right wing hate machine.

[JuniperLea]

51. Amen! ... eom

[Lisa0825]

3. I don't think it means it won't happen.

It was a rather mild statement. Could be a case of "good cop, bad cop." Clark gets to make a statement, Obama gets to deny it, but it's still out there.

I don't think this amounts to "throwing him under the bus." He didn't exactly call him Judas.

[Clark2008]

4. You'd think that people who write about politics would know about

politics.

I'd say Vice President Clark was sent out by the campaign to test this water and, despite the talking head furor, it's not really making a difference in the real world.

This is the point of surrogates. They can break ground, be pit bulls and tell the God's-honest truth, whilst the campaign can "rise above it" and pretend they didn't hoist the pertard in the first place.

This, too, will blow over, despite what Michael Scherer thinks (and, may, in fact, be ploy to keep the press away from VP Clark until his name is announced. Obama is known for being able to knock criticism away).

What we don't need is someone vanilla and bland and entrenched, like Bayh, Clinton, Richardson and Biden.

[fishwax]

38. oh, they know about politics -- it's just a question of what they want to tell the public about

politics ;)

But I agree with your analysis of the remark :)

[anonymous171]

6. God fucking dammit. FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK

[high density]

42. That was my first thought too

But I actually think Team Obama is outplaying the Republicans and the media at their own game... We just need to get used to how the game is played.

[GoldieAZ49]

69. you sound disappointed

or something

[TwilightGardener]

7. Obama is never going to pick apart the merits of McCain's service, and he's not

going to get drawn into Clark's opinions of it either. He did the right thing. Clark expressed his own opinion and analysis AS A GENERAL, not as an Obama spokesperson. Clark is a big boy, he can take it.

[Tom Rinaldo]

32. The patriotism speech was fine. It was subtle positioning.

The Obama campaign spokesperson flat out saying that Obama rejects Clark's comment is a different story. If Clark wwas less of a gentleman he would ask, what exactly was it that I said that you reject? Even if Clark doesn't ask it, the question remains? What does Obama reject in Clark's comments? Where did Clark say anything negative abo9ut McCain's patriotism? Clark was asked a direct question about how can anyone doubt the narttional security credentials of anyone who got shoot down flying a fighter and he said that doesn't qualify one to be President. The Air force has lots of fighter pilots, some got shot down and some didn't, but neither by itself is a presidential qualification.

[TwilightGardener]

37. Obama is right not to allow Clark's remarks to be attributed to him by association.

That's smart politics, and I'm 100% sure Clark understands.

[roguevalley]

66. My cousin Ross was a fighter pilot in Viet Nam. he flew a gazillion

missions and didn't get shot down. Nothing in his service fitted him to be President. Nothing he learned in the military or did there makes him qualified. Same with McSame. Clark is right. I love you, General. I hope
this doesn't disqualify you from contention because you are the only one who speaks the truth these days.

My cousin Ross died of Agent Orange caused bone cancer. RIP, cousin. I love ya.

[Adelante]

39. Clark expressed his own opinion as he has several times since endorsing Obama

But I don't think for one minute this was not campaign strategy, as well as opinion. The O camp heard Clark saying this again and again. They needed it. They wanted it. They got it. Now the time came for O to distance himself from remarks he knew very well were being made for the better part of a month. I get that. But Clark wasn't out there giving personal opinions for no reason.

[TwilightGardener]

45. I don't know if it was an intentional campaign strategy, to be honest. I don't

know that Obama would want the risk of this kind of controversy. However, he handled it gently and appropriately, and Clark can maintain his professional opinion without having it necessarily be transferred to Obama himself.

[eleny]

8. but the seeds have already been planted by Wes Clark and Richard Clark

Wes Clark never disrespected McCain's service. He just said that it didn't make him qualified to be president.

The fact that Wes Clark made his assertion twice over the span of several weeks tells me this was planned and probably by the campaign. I don't care what the campaign says now as a response. I believe they planned this. It's how you bring the gun to the knife fight.

[Clark2008]

13. I agree.

Clark speaks off-the-cuff on a great number of subjects, but, on this particular one, he said nearly the same exact thing in three or four interviews.

Sounded scripted... like... I don't know... a CAMPAIGN!

[eleny]

27. You saw a couple more interviews?

That's great!

I only saw it on Morning Joe and then this Sunday. I wish I could see videos of the others. I also noticed that it sounded exactly the same both times.

[grantcart]

31. he has been saying something very similar for months

Shaeffer just reacted to it this time.

It will be forgotten by tomorrow when McCain speaks from where?

Columbia lol

[eleny]

44. McCain is going to Columbia tomorrow? Ay-yi-yi!

[grantcart]

52. and then on to Mexico just before the 4th of July

absolutely unbelievable.

[Adelante]

53. June 11, June 12, June 25, June 29

Sometimes twice in one day. This is just what I know of. It always sounded exactly the same. Clark believes it, but it is a political script.

Here is Wes on The Verdict:

Dan Abrams: -you know, you're one of the few people who can respond to the, to the comments about how heroic he was. Because look, th- there's very little civilians like myself can say apart from the fact that yes, he was heroic.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well look, I mean, everybody-

Dan Abrams: Yeah.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -I think all of us admire John McCain's heroism as a prisoner of war. He was heroic. That doesn't mean that he's necessarily well qualified or the best qualified to be the Commander in Chief. As I've said elsewhere, he's largely untested and untried in matters of national policy making. He's never been in the Executive Branch. He's never gr-

Joe Watkins: Neither has Barack Obama.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -given great strategic decisions. Barack Obama's not running on his claim. Barack Obama's running on the claim of judgement. McClain's (sic) running on experience.

There is video as well as a transcript:

http://securingamerica.com/node/2989

[grantcart]

73. exactly and it goes back even farther than that

there really isn't anything to 'believe' or 'not believe' he is just stating an obvious fact.

[eleny]

75. Thanks WD!

Once these assertions are made, they're in the public mind and now the discourse.

Even as the media thrashes around, the public now can maybe say out loud what they've been thinking. After all, if Wes Clark said it, there may be something to it. It gives people permission to consider a new way of examining McCain.

I think this was planned by Obama's campaign all along as a way of breaking the ice on this issue and I'm all for it if that's the case.

[book_worm]

9. Obama always says in his speeches how he respects McCain and his service

and the campaign isn't going to be won on saying that McCain isn't a foreign policy expert because he was shot down and a pow, it will be won by demonstrating that his ideas are wrong, and Obama has been doing that just fine.

[Scurrilous]

11. Good cop/bad cop. n/t

[NatBurner]

26. basically

that shit was like a pick & roll

[high density]

36. I guess so

But it does feel like Obama is being required to reject a lot of things-- a lot more than John McCain.

[harun]

59. Exactly what I was going to say. Brilliant strategy from Clark and Obama.

[blogslut]

12. Because our sainted media pundits are always right

Michael Scherer is an ass. And he's wrong. I'm just about positive Barack Obama is going to pick Wesley Clark as his running mate. I could wrong. We'll see.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

14. I recently sent money to Obama - but today I'm not feeling too warmly towards him

Clark was trying to point out that McCain's record of service doesn't make him more qualified to be President than Obama, who never served. Clark is right. But media assholes such as Andrea Mitchell are suggesting this morning to guest after guest that what Clark did was attack McCain's military record, which is not true. These are clowns, not journalists. Andrea Mitchell is the very shit from my ass. I wish her every possible ill in her miserable life. And Obama isn't helping his own cause in my eyes when he doesn't stand up to this kind of crap.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

35. Now it's Monica Novotny who is lying about what Clark said

She just said that Clark was "parsing out John McCain's military record". Clark did nothing of the kind. Clark merely said that being a war hero doesn't make you qualified to lead a country. There was no attack whatsoever on McCain's record. Again these are douchebags, utter douchebags, not journalists. And it's each and every one of them producing this crap infotainment, trying to drum up a story where there isn't one.

[rox63]

15. I see no bus, nor did Obama throw anyone under said vehicle n/t

[cottonseed]

17. I think they both played their parts perfectly.

Clark gets it out there and Obama needs to "reject" it. Obama can "reject" all the statements he can get hold of as far as I'm concerned As long as he doesn't "reject the man", which it doesn't sound here like he did. I say well done.

[smoogatz]

21. Bingo.

Exactly right.

[Imagevision]

18. Who told Clarke to run his mouth off?

[Adelante]

40. I would think the Obama campaign

That's how it usually goes.

[smoogatz]

19. Well played by the Obama camp.

This is how it's done, folks. One of your surrogates puts the obvious but brutal but thus-far unsaid critique out into the media-sphere, it stirs up a fuss, and for a cycle or two the newsmodels are all a-twitter about whether McCain's POW status actually does qualify him to be CinC. Then the candidate comes out and, taking the high road, issues the standard disclaimer. It's straight out of the Republican play-book, and the Obama folks engineered it perfectly. In fact the question was raised by a reporter in today's McCain presser (he ducked it), and dollars to donuts it'll pop up when the foreign policy debate rolls around. Clark wasn't thrown under any bus: he WAS the bus, the bumper of which is now embedded in McCain's ass.

[cbc5g]

62. Well said!

[Hope And Change]

64. Interesting analyzis.

[smoogatz]

65. It's obvious, no?

The standard kabuki, pretty much. Nice to see Democrats doing it, for a change.

[Overseas]

20. No Obama did NOT rebuke Clark-- he affirmed our respect for any soldier's service

Obama has always taken the respectful attitude toward John Sidney McCain III's military service. I admire the way, when Obama criticizes Bush-McCain military policies he usually prefaces his remarks with a statement of respect or gratitude for JSM III's service.

Those positions are not mutually exclusive. We can respect someone's military service and thank them for it without thinking it automatically gives them the judgment to be Commander in Chief.

[WeDidIt]

22. Yep, Clark is defnitely off the short list now. n/t

[smoogatz]

24. Nonsense.

He did what he was asked to do. Points for him, if anything.

[elocs]

23. It is amusing to watch the lengths that Democrats will go to be pissed at Obama about something.

It's always something. The article says: "It sure sounds to me like this line from his speech rebukes Clark's comment." Then people take the opinion of the writer and run with it like it's the gospel truth.

Yep, it's always something. I wonder what it will be tomorrow?

[zulchzulu]

25. Obama did what he HAD to do...

As much as Clark may be correct (and there will 527s attacking McCain later on this), it's a loser for Obama.

McCain is already whining that he's the underdog and with the media ready to throw a pity party for him on what Clark implied, it only puts Obama on the defensive.

Anyone who thinks Obama should not make a comment on this doesn't understand basic politics. Wes should know better too.

[jefferson_dem]

29. I agree wholeheartedly, zulch.

n/t

[Overseas]

28. Dont fall for RW Hyperdrama !! They want to slam Obama by misinterpreting Clark.

Please DON"T FALL FOR THE RIGHT WING FAKE DRAMA !! They want to turn Gen Clark's sensible statement into some kind of Swift Boat Attack !!! It was not that. It was a statement of fact. Being a POW doesn't automatically equip a person to be COmmander in CHief. Pure and Simple.

Obama has often praised Senator John Sidney McCain III's military service before he criticized particular military strategies or policy decisions JSM III has supported.

[faithfulcitizen]

54. exactly.

[high density]

33. Rejects Clark?

Ya, know for once it would be nice to take it to the Republicans without apologizing for it afterward. It does look like a masterful maneuver from Obama, though.

[Spazito]

46. The media, as usual, has it wrong, quelle suprise...

Obama did NOT throw General Clark "under the bus", imo. Obama clearly stated he would NOT question McCain's patriotism or service. Clark said equally clearly he honored McCain's service and said NOTHING that could be construed as questioning McCain's patriotism.

It is because the media has deliberately "misinterpreted" what Clark actually said and are now doing the same wrt what Obama said that makes this very interesting, imo.

Obama will get a question now as to whether General Clark dissed McCain's service and/or patriotism to which Obama can respond by quoting IN CONTEXT exactly what General Clark did say as opposed to the medias' slant on it, imo.

[high density]

47. Yeah you're right

I'm just not used to our side playing the media's game so well, I guess. :)

[unblock]

34. yes! FINALLY a democrat who knows how to play the game!

let the surrogates take the low road.
let the candidate take the high road.

you get the negative stuff in play without getting penalized for going negative.

THIS IS HOW IT'S DONE, FOLKS!

[harun]

60. Unfortunately not many here are seeing the strategy and are having knee jerk

reactions.

Take a step back and see the forest from the trees everyone.

[Sparkly]

71. Let the surrogate's point STAND, for cryin' out loud.

Don't help the RNC inoculate their candidate from valid criticism!!

It WASN'T a "low road!"

[unblock]

76. if it wasn't meant to be the "low road", then it was a gaffe

sorry, but one must tread very carefully when saying anything that might appear to insult someone's military service, especially when it involved suffering torture.

i don't think getting shot down and captured are good credentials for being president either, but there that doesn't mean it's wise to just come out and say it without acknowledging his service. being technically correct is laudible and preferred, but it's hardly the only consideration in choosing what statements to put out there in a political context.

of course, it's always possible that clark DID say all the right things and that the quote in the media was stripped of context, but you have to express support and sympathy for anyone who served honorably, and sympathy for anyone who endured torture. THEN you can put it into the context of a presidential race.

for instance, "mccain has my appreciation for having served his country in vietnam. he has my sympathy for having endured torture, something i would never wish on anyone. as a candidate for the highest office in the land, his qualifications are well short of the mark and, in particular, p.o.w. camps are not usually thought of as training grounds for commanders-in-chief."

[polmaven]

41. I haven't seen General Clark's

statement, nor have I read a transcript, but the little I know about it seems to be that he said that being shot down and/or being a POW doesn't automatically qualify a person as a foreign policy expert or for the presidency.

Seems pretty straight forward to me. Was there more that I maybe have missed? I see nothing that says he doesn't honor McCain's service.

I also have seen nothing that would qualify Senator Obama's statement as either incorrect or a rebuke.

It has been a pretty busy weekend, so maybe I missed a LOT! Or, maybe, being the MSM, they are, once again, making stuff up. Can you fill me in?

[tularetom]

43. Finally a Democrat who knows how the game is played

Clark goes out and gets the story in front of the public. There is the predictable fake outrage on the part of the pundit class. Then Obama steps up and says he doesn't agree with the statement and deplores it.

Viola! The point gets made, and Obama gets to look like the good guy. Even McCain is smart enough to use surrogates to put the code words out there so he can deplore their statements. I'm glad we have a candidate smart enough to figure out the whole drill.

[Born_A_Truman]

48. I saw nothing in Clark's statement that was dissing McCain's service...

The RW twisted his statements into something it was not. They never addressed the issue that Clark raised--that being a POW does not a president make. It would be nice if the Obama campaign straightened them out and ended their meme.

[JuniperLea]

55. Here we go again... shit

Clark told the truth. No one should get the smackdown for telling the truth. There were other ways to handle this and Obama blew it, imho.

Don't even get me going on this being an avoidance of "Swiftboating" McCain! Bull... fucking... shit! The Swiftboaters were LYING! You cannot "swiftboat" someone with truth!

Just like the Wright deal... Rev. Wright is an awesome man... Obama blew that one too. There are other ways of framing one's own perspective without giving the royal smackdown to people who speak the truth.

[formercia]

56. My service is bigger than your service.

Does that mean I have to respect Junior's service too?

[barack the house]

57. It's unfortunate for Clark but attacking McCain's record is an unwise strategy as I would feel if ..

they attacked Clark's record.

[BigD_95]

58. This is a joke

Obama needs to stand up to McSame. Clark did not attack McSame personally or attack his patriotism. He just made a true and simple fact. Getting shot down doesnt make you President worthy.

If McSame is running on his combat as a reason for becoming President then you can question it in a profession way which is what Clark did.

Obama looks weak when he bows down to McSame all the time.

Damn this pisses me off because I was so happy Clark said it.

So sick of the MSM acting so shocked that anyone would question MCSame

[Tom Rinaldo]

63. Let Obama's team do the political calculus

I may or may not agree to their conclusions but they are in this to win because losing is simply not an option.

But we are free to speak out. We can call the media on their bullshit. We can back a Democrat who is unafraid to tell the truth, we won't lose any votes doing so. There's a thread up at DU about the petition that VoteVets started to defend General Clark from getting swiftboated over this. Vote it up and pass it on!

[Schema Thing]

61. So Obama believes that being a prisoner of war qualifies a man to be POTUS?

that's a little scary.

[Bake]

67. What happened to "I don't do cowering ..."?

Clark was right, of course. We can respect McLame's service but it doesn't make him qualified to be POTUS.

Bake

[jefferson_dem]

68. Nothing.

That's why he's speaking the truth, based on his own principles.

Hillary's on board. I guess you are too?

[Sparkly]

70. What principles, or what truth, are we talking about? nt

[Bake]

72. I intend to vote for Obama for Prez, if that's your question.

Meanwhile, Clark told the truth. Getting shot down doesn't qualify one for the Oval Office. Obama should've backed Wes up.

Bake

[beachmom]

74. Good. Clark stepped in it, and will have to deal with what he said.