Press all in a Twitter over Gen Clark's statement that getting shot down does not make you a foreign

[thepurpose]

policy expert. Poor McCain. Morning Joe starting there crap right out the gate with Mika not believing Gen. Clark is going there.

[chimpymustgo]

1. Since the primary ended, Mika has been useless. She giggles and acquiesces to Joe.

I really don't think she has the brains or the spine necessary.

[thepurpose]

2. I can't believe Willie Giest is the voice of reason out of all people.

Even though he didn't push back on Andrea's stupid comments. I really didn't expect him to say anything other than agree with the other two.

[Supersedeas]

21. it is like Mika is merely a caricature of liberalism (the pretty shrinking violet)

[hokies4ever]

3. Exactly what I was thinking.

I understand that she believes in having a non-confrontational approach to the morning news, but she just lets Joe walk all over her no matter what he thinks and says.

Also, it's not like this is the first time that Clark has said this. He even said it on their show. A variation of his talking point that McCain's war experience does not translate into good foreign policy formulation.

[ladjf]

15. I think she could do better than that.

[JamesA1102]

54. Joe's on vacation

And it seems whenever he's not there she ratchets up the criticizem of Obama. Last month when Joe was out she spent three days flogging the Rev. Pflagger story.

[no_hypocrisy]

4. OTOH, one cannot equate John McCain as the reincarnation of General Dwight Eisenhauer.

McCain does have a resume that includes leading the troops into and through D-Day, across the European Theatre during a world war, and having a role in prosecuting a peace treaty from the military side.

And how about the double standard? John Kerry had more experience in Vietname on his resume and yet he hadn't done enough to validate himself as a worthy candidate.

[polmaven]

43. Sorry, spelling police time....

General Dwight D. Eisenhower

[no_hypocrisy]

51. Sorry, I was spelling in German (on autopilot today). My bad.

[DFW]

59. Es besteht Haftbefehl gegen Sie!

[Oleladylib]

5. Wes Clark is absolutely right...truth hurts.

[Johonny]

12. yeah. I think everyones amazed a Dem would say

something negative even if it's truthful.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

17. He is right, but I have a feeling Obama is going to throw Clark under the perverbial "bus".

[Oleladylib]

18. I would hope he does NOT...in the name of the political game he is trying not to play.

[TBF]

29. I hope not. Wes Clark sounds like he'd be a great VP. I like that he has the courage

to tell the truth.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

52. Agree completely - the guy's got brass balls, that's for sure, something we need in a VP . . .

although WC is not my first choice. But a fine choice nonetheless.

[anonymous171]

44. Nope, he shouldn't. That's why the RW wants. That's why they are attacking Clark so much.

They are trying to remove him from Veep consideration.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

53. As they say . . . the truth hurts.

[slinkerwink]

6. Wasn't Bush's father shot down as well?

[liberal N proud]

7. So are they proposing that all future presidents have to be shot down?

Just because someone flew a plane and it was shot down, does not mean we OWE him the oval office?

Likewise just because he sat in a POW camp, does not mean we OWE him the presidency and I am sick and fucking tired of the GOP and Right Wing media making is sound romantic.

[Kahuna]

8. Or that all shot down vets or former POWs are qualified to be president? nt

[butterfly77]

57. So I guess this is another entitlement campaign,,,

[muffin1]

9. Where the fuck was the press

when the repukes were shitting all over John Kerry? Dumbass repukes were wearing band-aids, implying, and yes, saying straight out that Kerry was a coward. Wes Clark makes one statement (which is true, btw), and the MSM wants to crucify him. Jesus, it's way to early to be sick to my stomach.
:(

[bluethruandthru]

50. I'm tired of the double standard!

The media had better portray this incident exactly as it was said. Clark honored McCain's service and heroism...but said it didn't translate into leadership experience.

They keep trying to spin it that Clark trashed McCain's service. We've got to call them on it. That's not what he said.

I think we all were too quiet when they trashed Kerry and it cost us dearly.

[Sparkly]

10. It's amazing, isn't it?!?

He went out of his way to praise McCain's service and make his point crystal clear, yet all we're hearing (starting from the RNC, mysteriously - not) is that he "attacked" and "demeaned" McCain's service!!

:mad:

[Eurobabe]

11. Pat Buchanan all but acknowledges that the US is a Bush Dictatorship

""HE" (asshat) has all the power, he is the decider," Katrina Vandenheuvel was all over him for that remark. I've only been home for 3 days and I am ready to flee this country again. :eyes:

There is a poison over AmeriKKKa and the press is fanning the flames of war with Iran. Sick.

[SoonerPride]

13. They can't believe someone would attack McSame

I heard them this morning.

Obama doesn't have any military service, so how can they attack McSame?

Where was this fucking outrage when the right wing tore into a decorated war veteran versus a fucking twit who was AWOL and snorting blow while others were serving?

The media is unfuckingbelievably transparent in their complicity with the reich wing.

[Tom Rinaldo]

14. Clark can say things that few Democrats will risk saying

He can say them because he has the record to back up his words, but also, simply put, because he is fearless. He knows full well that the right wing and the media will come after him for discussing the limits of McCain's military qualifications to be Commander in Chief. They came after in in 2003 also when he forcefully opposed Bush over the Iraq war, and unlike the reasoned arguments Clark used against McCain, the Right went straight for character assasination against Wes Clark.
media
Someone has to do it, so Clark stepped forward to take on McCain around his supposed strength in service to Obama. Now watch all the knives directed at Wes Clark. He deserves our backing on this for telling an unpopular truth. Clark said nothing disrespectful about McCain's military service, unlike what the Right said about John Kerry.

[Clark2008]

20. I'm game - and it's lunch time.

Who should I write?

Got some email addys for the worst offenders of this smear?

[Tom Rinaldo]

24. Politico gave it a harsh spin

Here is their story:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11425.html

and Andrea Mitchell said his comments were "dumb" on MSNBC's show "Morning Joe", and that meant he wouldn't be on the short list for VP.

[Clark2008]

45. What war did Mrs. Greenspan serve in?

:eyes:

[butterfly77]

58. You could tell in that campaign that..

the GOP was really upset when Clark entered the race because they started sending out BoB Dole and he couldn't even control the anger he had for Clark. I knew then for sure that Clark was the right one..

[MasonJar]

16. I hope Wes is the VP choice. He is amazing on defense and he was a Hillary

supporter; he is also one fabulously intelligent and fearless advocate for what is right. No one puts Wes down with impunity, which fits nicely with Obama's attitude.

[Phoonzang]

22. If this storm around his comments grows

Obama is not going to be able to put Clark on the ticket. If he puts such a "media pariah" on his ticket that will change the narrative for the entire race and take the focus away from the issues. 24/7 outrage...

[high density]

27. 24/7 outrage about nothing

Umm, that's what we already have.

[Phoonzang]

28. Well, unless it's something McCain said

Then he gets a free pass. There's a double standard for Obama and anyone connected to him.

[yardwork]

36. Yeah, imagine what they'll do if Obama chooses somebody else for VP.

The same thing they'll do anyway.

[Tom Rinaldo]

31. That is the media intent;, to rule fair points against McCain off bounds

If we give in to this slippery slope it leads to not being able to be critical of the American President in time of war. It leads to not being able to be critical of a war because that shows disrespect for the men and women sent to fight in it. This is the media plan to boost John McCain.

If a democrat says something truly dumb, he or she will get heat over it. That happens in any campaign. Obama wishs he had chosen other words to describe bitter people clinging to guns and religion for example. You ride it out when that happens, but this isn't that at all. Here a Democrat spoke the truth, in a firm but respectful manner.

Clark did not challenge McCain's heroism, patriotism, or military service. Clark pointed out the real limits of McCain's experience in preparing him to be President of the United States, bucking the conventional wisdom that being a POW made McCain a national security expert. The media wants Democrats to coddle McCain with kid gloves as if he were the reincarnation of IKE, but he isn't and that is factually true. Everything Clark said is factually true and if Demcorats are afraid to say that then McCain will continue to be treated as if he were Ike.

As VP candidate Wes Clark would get plenty of direct air time to make his points, and he makes them very well indeed. Watch the tape of his Sunday interview yourself. Clark called McCain a hero, he was never disrespectful. The VP candidate has to be skilled at roughing up the opposing Presidential candidate. Do you think Dick Cheney was Mr. Nice Guy? McCain will keep trying to puff up his resume with or without Clark taking him on around it. Far better that we have a Democrat with credability stand up to that type of hero worship based puffery. Otherwise Democrats are conceding that McCain is an expert without putting up a fight. The media wants to scare Democars into that stance by attacking the messager carrying the truth. Clark can handle it if given the chance.

[Oleladylib]

19. I read yesterday that heroism is in volunteering to serve...NOT in the results thereafter...

makes sense

[yardwork]

37. Then where were they when John Kerry (two volunteer stints in combat) was being trashed?

What about Al Gore, who volunteered to serve in Vietnam? Going back further, how much did the press cover McGovern's military service? Mondale's? Jimmy Carter's? They all served. McGovern was a pilot too - who managed not to get shot down.

All my life I've heard this "liberals are wimps and conservatives are war heroes" crap and it is crap! Compare the military records of just the Democrats I listed above with the current crew of chickenhawks wrecking the country this very minute.

[Oleladylib]

38. I agree and with the statement I read..but it is too forethinking for most of Americans.

[yardwork]

42. That's pathetic.

[Oleladylib]

55. my point was made quickly, I see.

[yardwork]

56. I hope you know that I'm agreeing with you!

I meant that it's pathetic that so people can't understand the simple fact that many Democratic leaders have military experience, while many Republican leaders avoided it.

[Supersedeas]

23. Corp Shills are GRASPING for ANYTHING, something to make it competitive

[Overseas]

25. And the Corporate Media were so strong in defense of Kerry's millitary experience, huh? //eom

[Tatiana]

26. Man, Clark is so far the leader in the Veepstakes (IMO)! Attack, attack!!!! n/t

[Rowdyboy]

30. Are all POWs qualified to be president or just the ones who dump their 1st wives to marry heiresses?

[Arugula Latte]

32. They ruthlessly enabled the SwiftBoat lies of Kerry, but are Shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you

that someone would dare question a non-Democrat's war bona fides.

[Tom Rinaldo]

34. Yeah, even thogh Clark never questioned McCain's bona fides

All Clark did was set the record straight on the type of national security experience John McCain that doesn't have. He said absolutely nothng negative ab9ut McCain's courage, service, or patriotism.

[TwilightGardener]

33. I am willing to bet that the Obama campaign is watching this media reaction very carefully--

both to see whether Clark's creds as a military guy actually help inoculate him when he criticizes McLame (uh, so far, they're not--the media is siding with McLame), and also to see what is considered "too far" when discussing the relevance of McLame's service.

[Tom Rinaldo]

35. That's like giving the MSM the steering wheel to decide where the campaign should head

We alredy know their answer. They put John McCain on a pedestaq in the first place. How do you think they will reqct to any effort to tqake him off of it? They won't roll over and accept it without a fight. And if surrender as soon as they fight against any effort to look at McCain's reqal record rather than the myth about him, we are simply letting them peddle that myth unopposed. That is not how you win elections.

[TwilightGardener]

40. I don't know if Obama's campaign is going to adjust any strategy

or not consider Wes for VP on the basis of the MSM reaction--I'm just saying that it's a useful guide as to how it's going to go whenever any Democrat tries to make the argument that McCain's service doesn't necessarily imbue him with Presidential qualities or foreign policy know-how.

[Tom Rinaldo]

41. Clark is acting like a lightning rod on this one, drawing enemy fire so to speak

It was predictable that the first Democrat to climb out of the trenches to engage McCain on his so called foreign policy expertise was going to become an immediate target. I see the point you are making, of course it is useful data for the Obama campaign to study where fire comes from in response. Sometimes you need to deploy a decoy to find out the tactics the opposition is going to hit you with.

Sometimes someone has to take a hit for the team. The outrage blow back was predictable, but the alternative to facing it was to allow the McCain myth to go unchallenged. We can not allow the Republican candidate to have foreign policy expertise bestowed on him unfairly by the media.

[high density]

39. But we knew this would be the reaction

This is the same media that basically forced Obama to leave his church.

[Tom Rinaldo]

46. So far I am not pleased

"Obama: I will never question others' patriotism"
By JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press Writer
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080630/ap_on_el_pr/obama;_ylt=As9GGyjqJkFaCzhLL5R6gX9snwcF

..."Obama said that patriotism "must, if it is to mean anything, involve the willingness to sacrifice" and sought to distance himself from Clark's remarks without mentioning them.

"For those like John McCain who have endured physical torment in service to our country — no further proof of such sacrifice is necessary," Obama said. "And let me also add that no one should ever devalue that service, especially for the sake of a political campaign, and that goes for supporters on both sides."

The comment drew loud applause.

Separately, in a statement, Obama spokesman Bill Burton said, "As he's said many times before, Senator Obama honors and respects Senator McCain's service, and of course he rejects yesterday's statement by General Clark."


So which part of Clark's statement does Obama reject? Was it this:

""Because in the matters of national security policy making, it's a matter of understanding risk. It's a matter of gauging your opponents, and it's a matter of being held accountable. John McCain's never done any of that in his official positions. I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in Armed Forces as a prisoner of war. He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and he has traveled all over the world. But he hasn't held executive responsibility. That large squadron in Air- in the Navy that he commanded, it wasn't a wartime squadron. He hasn't been there and ordered the bombs to fall. He hasn't seen what it's like when diplomats come in and say, 'I don't know whether we're going to be able to get this point through or not. Do you want to take the risk? What about your reputation? How do we handle it-'"

Or was it this:

"Bob Schieffer: I have to say, Barack Obama has not had any of those experiences either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down. I mean-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be President."

http://securingamerica.com/node/2993


Does Burton think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down IS a qualification to be President? Does anyone think that Wes Clark questioned McCain's patriotism in any of his comments?

[TwilightGardener]

47. I don't think Wes was getting slammed in Obama's comments, because

it's clear he didn't question McLame's patriotism. Wes's comments were his informed opinion as a military officer--I don't think he expects Obama to necessarily publicly agree with him. Military people can criticize each other, and Obama wants to stay out of that.

[Tom Rinaldo]

48. Self Delete, dupe. n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

49. I understood the dance Obama did. By itself I'm fine with it.

But the quote from Obama's campaign spokesperson was much more blunt in saying that of course Obama rejects Clark's statement. In my opinion there were better ways to handle it that would still have given Obama strategic distance. Something as simple as repeating that military service is valuable in developing and showing leadership, and that General Clark's reply was merely a literal answer to a question asked of him which any reasonable person would have to agree with on the face of it.