Slash! Burn! Denounce! Slander! Destroy! Demolish! Tear him limb from limb!

[DFW]

But before we do anything else to Senator Obama, could we please get him elected first?

[EFerrari]

1. People just don't understand process around here.

:rofl:

[DFW]

3. Please pity those of us who are slow and dim-witted......

[EFerrari]

4. I'm sorry if I said that badly. Only meant, we HAVE to elect him first

in order to cannibalize him LATER. It's a sequence!

That's all, DFW.

[DFW]

5. I got that part, but thanks

Even I am capable of rare moments of lucidity (usually once or twice a week,
but hey, you take what you can get).

[EFerrari]

7. Lucidity is overrated. It involves vast tracks of consciousness

and the light is unforgiving. :)

[DFW]

11. I don't even own sunglasses

(Germany, you know). So I guess it's just as well I abandon the quest.

[FrenchieCat]

2. Some call it first things first.......

others call it common sense.

[blondeatlast]

6. DU will be more fun after 1/20/09, I'm willing to bet. All the folks I made nice with--

LOOK OUT! :rofl:

[Occam Bandage]

33. Nah. He'll be more hated than Reid multiplied by Pelosi.

[NanceGreggs]

8. Sorry, my dear friend, but I have to disagree with you on this one.

It is imperative that we totally destroy the best candidate we have had in decades, and ensure that he doesn't get elected.

Then we'll have another four-to-eight years of fun complaining how bad things are thanks to the catastrophic Republican administration.

This isn't my idea, mind you - but according to many, it seems to be the plan we're supposed to be following ...

[DFW]

9. Funny you should mention that

I was talking to my friends from The Freedom Toast and the cast of Political-Idol,
and they were saying the same thing. If the Republicans are out of power, political
satirists will have about much chance of getting work as an honest contract negotiator
at Halliburton. Such a catastrophe, this crazy concept of improving things, whoda thunk it?

[MarjorieG]

18. Still convinced Rich and Dowd wanted second acts of their Bush books to speak truth about Kerry.

They reached a new level of snark that camapign.

[EFerrari]

13. Obama will be the death of comedy.

I told you so. :)

[DFW]

14. Please show some mercy

I don't handle bad news like that well..........

[johnaries]

15. I wonder how many of us will still love John Stewart after 01/20/09.

Or if John will have a job anymore.....

[John Q. Citizen]

16. I have a feeling you are right about that. At least comedy "as we know it."

[grantcart]

20. I told you that we should have ordered more kool aid

[Major Hogwash]

25. Not only that.

But by then they can claim that they have been fighting for our rights for the last 12 years, instead of claiming they have been fighting for our rights for the last 8 years, and we should know better than to tell them to shut up or else they won't be able to make any more posts telling all of us that they have been fighting for our rights - by whining incessantly on a forum!!

For chrissakes, enough already.

It's almost July 1st!
Time is running out for them to tell us we should lose in order to win again!

Because you see, if we lose, then all this other stuff can be brought back up later, and we can compare Obama to Kerry or Gore or Dukakis or Stevenson, for that matter.

And when you stop and think about, there are only 7 people that really know what is going on anyway.
The rest of us are just chaff that will blow away later anyway.

"Hold his feet to the fire"!!
What fire?
Where?


Hahahahahahaha!

[Breeze54]

55. I disagree with you on this, Ms. Greggs.

People have not been tearing apart Obama but they have expressed disappointment at his changing FISA stance, recently and DUers have every right to be critical of his changing position. It's called a democracy and I hardly think that DU will have any weight on whether or not Obama wins the GE in the fall. You seem to be buying onto the over the top rhetoric being posted by some at DU questio0ning other members patriotism and loyalty to the party. Is that what it's come down to now? We are not allowed to express our opinions?

Even Obama does NOT agree with you....

Obama Rebukes MoveOn In Patriotism Speech

June 30, 2008 03:07 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/30/obama-rebukes-moveon-clar_n_110030.html

Obama went on to lament "caricatures of left and right . . . most evident during our recent debates about the war in Iraq, when those who opposed administration policy were tagged by some as unpatriotic, and a general providing his best counsel on how to move forward in Iraq was accused of betrayal." The line was a reference to the MoveOn.org ad in advance of General Petraeus' testimony last fall.

I'll criticize him and any other Dem that wants to win more than they want to defend the Constitution.

[NanceGreggs]

60. There is a vast difference ...

... between 'criticism', or disagreement with the nominee's position on any number of things, and posts that advocate "rethinking" our support of Obama.

Quite frankly, there have been a few posts here lately that lead one to believe that some people think that if they complain enough about Obama, the Party will kick him to the curb and replace him with someone more to the posters' liking.

That ain't gonna happen.

He's the nominee - OUR nominee - and posts like, "This guy really is nothing more than a speech," or, "His FISA stance proves he is corruptable," or the infamous, "If MY candidate had been the nominee, they would have acted differently," are neither constructive nor helpful.

The real point of the present exercise is that it is going to be Obama or McCain come November. Them's the choices; that's the deal. Eye on the prize, and all that.

I, for one, will take an imperfect Obama, whom I will never agree with one hundred percent of the time, over McCain any day.

[Breeze54]

62. All of the DUers that have expressed disappointment have had their loyalty questioned.

It's total BS!! :grr:

I haven't seen the comments you posted but that was 3 out of how many DUers?

It isn't my country right or wrong and even when he gets elected, there WILL be criticism!!

Better get used to it now.

[JoFerret]

10. 'Twas ever thus

.

[nc4bo]

12. Truer words were never typed. Please, PLEASE let's get him in 1st! n/t

[madfloridian]

17. SO...we are not to criticize him. or anything he stands for. Or

the Democrats..

Just walk the walk, talk the talk.

Acceptance mode.

I am sad to see the acceptance mode kicking in so fast.

DFW, your buddy, Howard, is no longer outspoken.

I guess he thought we would be.

[DFW]

19. MF

Howard thinks, as I do, that if we do not win the White House in November,
our leverage with the White House remains at zero. You can change the direction
of the car you are in if you are driving it. If you are in the back seat, and
the driver can't or won't hear you, then you can never change the direction
where it's going.

I was not an Obama fan during the primaries, but I'm not willing to endanger
the lives of my children by letting John McCain pick the next two or three
Supreme Court Justices just because I would have preferred someone else to
be our nominee.

The only thing we HAVE to accept at this point is that Obama is our nominee.
The only realistic (or real) choice we have is between him and McCain. We don't
have to roll over and play dead, but we also don't have the luxury of molding
Obama into our personal perfect candidate. If Hillary had won the nomination,
we would have been hearing the same thing from the Obama side, only louder.
Without party unity we do not get to complain and be heard, only to complain.
That hasn't worked out all too well for us these past 8 years (unless you ARE
Jon Stewart).

If the only two options are a driver of that proverbial car that might listen
to you and a driver that will never listen to you, which one would you opt for?

Those are our only two choices. Criticize PRESIDENT Obama all you want, because
that means there won't be a President McCain. But I'm reluctant to give Republicans
ammunition to enable there to BE a President McCain.

You can only treat the patient if he's alive, if you get my drift.

[madfloridian]

21. Then you are both wrong. We must speak up on secrecy in government.

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

-- Benjamin Franklin

I don't expect to ever hear Howard Dean speak out again like he did in 2003. But it kept us in the party after the Iraq invasion.
It did accomplish that. We are still with DFA and donate monthly, at least for a while longer. And to the DNC for now.

If this party loses its heart and soul on the way to November, then we all are to blame.

If we need to watch what we say, then both you and he are wrong.

[TBF]

37. Knowing which battles to fight, and WHEN to fight them is important in life -

and never so important as it is in this election. My children are very young right now, and I will not face them 20 years from now and explain to them that the 5th fascist elected to the Supreme Court in 2009 came about because I didn't do everything I could against John McCain.

The one thing you learn when you have children and spend any time with them is that it's not just about you anymore. Unfortunately it is a lesson that many people never learn.

[madfloridian]

38. I have 5 children, taught over 30 years before retiring. Why talk down to me?

We donated to Obama yesterday, see my avatar?

I just said I would not criticize him anymore.
Ever.

The silencing worked. Let FISA go through peacefully.

[TBF]

39. I am giving an opinion, how you choose to interpret is your business.

And the type of world you want to pass on to your children is up to you. I take responsibility for my own actions, and expect others to do the same.

[madfloridian]

41. What the hell makes you think I don't support him?

Good Lord what is going on here?

BTW after 30 years of teaching I am very old with grown children who make their own world.

I despise being talked down to.

[LVjinx]

43. You fight the battles when you have the opportunity, or you lose them.

[madfloridian]

28. You guys win.....I posted elsewhere that I will not talk about FISA anymore.

And when the Democrats go along with going to Iran, I won't post about that either.

The silencing threads here have worked. After 5 years of having hope, I don't have any.

When it does not matter what we say, DFW, then something is wrong.

[Jakes Progress]

35. Don't let the turkeys get you down.

I remember how much I argued with you during the primaries. You alerted on me and called me names and had one of my posts erased. Pissed me off.

Okay, you guys won the primary. Now we are on the same side - get a Democrat elected. I have admired a fervent Obama supporter and former Hillary Hater who is being consistent. What you said you didn't like in Hillary, you don't like in Obama now. Too many here have no center, no moral compass to help them see through the bs. They do a disservice to Obama, the party, the country, and their own integrity.

Hang in here with us. We are not pointing out the waffling in order to diminish his chances of winning. This is exactly one of those cases where doing the right thing is the thing to do to win. Like you, I am disappointed that he caved on the new FISA bill. But we need all of his ardent supporters to help convince him that this is a no-win course he is following.

First, it is wrong. It is a nasty, insider toilet of a bill designed for only one purpose - get george off. Second, moving to the right will turn off the hundreds of thousands who flocked to him in the primary, people who would never vote because the saw no difference between the parties. If he eliminates the difference, he eliminates his advantage. Some here are of the opinion that all we need is a rock star personality, that America will get up and go the to polls for some guy they like better than another. Those people won't stand in line for hours or skip lunch to vote if they don't see a difference between the candidates. Here on DU, we would rather kiss dick cheney than put another republican in the white house. (I know, that made me nauseous too.) But the country is smarter than we give them credit for, and if they don't see the difference between the way Obama votes and the way mccain votes, maybe they will just stay home. The stay homes are our ace in this election. Obama's tactics now are losing them.

So help us by using your bond fide credentials as an fervent Obama supporter to get the Democrats to kill this bill. The new FISA bill will do nothing to help us in any way.

[DFW]

44. It does matter what we say

I'm just saying that is also matters when, where and how we say it.
I totally agree that Obama is 180° wrong on FISA. But I'd rather have
him administering its oversight than McCain.

[Jakes Progress]

50. But my contention,

along with many with a lot more political savvy, is that by going this way he his harming his chances of winning.

[DFW]

52. I'm not the one to pass judgment on that. Might be, might not be.

He is obviously talking to people who are advising him to say what he does.
As Democrats, we always gets candidates (and, once in a blue moon, presidents)
who say things that make us want to climb the wall. The stark reality is that
our imperfect (by his own admission, so you KNOW he is no Republican) candidate
is going to enrage us all at one point or another. But McCain will enrage us ALL
of the time if he gets in. Is half a loaf enough? In a perfect world, never, and
there is no reason we can't strive toward that, knowing we'll never get there. I'm
only saying that we need to make sure we don't destroy our chances of taking that
first step in the direction we want to go. It's up to each of us to decide to what
extent we want to rock the boat before we're even in it. Not that it won't need rocking
now and then, but you can't rock the boat if you're sinking in the water around it,
and that is where we've been these last eight years.

[Jakes Progress]

53. Even perpetual cheerleader Arianna

is urging him to ignore the beltway thinking.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/memo-to-obama-moving-to-t_b_110026.html

[DFW]

56. The white House in smack dab in the center of the beltway. Good luck.

[Jakes Progress]

57. And the other 98.3% of the voters are not.

Maybe David Broder could tell you how to win in the power circles of DC. But he knows bupkis about the country. You don't win the national election based on how you would win in DC. 1.7% live there. The rest of the voters live out here.

[DFW]

58. Does ANYONE still pay any attention to what Dave Broder has to say?

I know where most voters live, and so do Obama and McCain, but the place
they are both striving for is 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, which Bill Clinton
so wonderfully described as "the crown jewel of the American prison system."

[Jakes Progress]

59. Apparently David Plouffe does. nt

[BlooInBloo]

22. Nobody hates Democrats more than DUers.

[madfloridian]

23. Stop that stuff. THAT is what will hurt our party.

If standing up for something like the Constitution is wrong, then we will lose in November because we are cowards.

[BlooInBloo]

32. The proud Democratic tradition of allowing our critters to be torn down continues!

Gore, Kerry, and now Obama.

But at least the rippers and the stand-by-and-allow-its got their $.02 in! That's a fair trade.

[madfloridian]

36. Well, maybe you missed that I sure got the message. I will not be critical

of the party anymore on anything. I have oodles of stuff to post about.

If people don't give a damn about privacy....hey I don't either.

[Number23]

31. Slight change

Nobody hates Democrats more than DUers.

Seems like it should read: "Nobody loves DRAMA more than DU'ers."

[Occam Bandage]

34. Pretty obviously, yeah.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

24. AMEN!! Look, I'm a proud, unapologetic liberal, but I cannot stand another 4 years of BUSHIT!!

Let's get the guy elected and work to force him to the place where he needs to go.

For those who falsely assumed that he was a liberal, I say SHAME ON YOU!! This guy was never a liberal; he is only slightly more liberal than Hillary Clinton. So please, keep your eyes on the prize. Get the guy elected. Don't stop sending money because the money is a means to an end.

Pissed off? Hell, yes I'm pissed at Obama right now, but I'm sure as hell gonna send in my measly dollars to him...and DU, of course!!

KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE PRIZE, FOLKS!!!

[Major Hogwash]

26. What's truly funny about this is that they act like Obama won't be a good President after he is in

the White House.

"You can't trust him now, so why trust him to do the right thing then?"

As if he can't revisit any of these issues.
As if no President ever revisited a political hot potato after he was elected.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

29. I think Obama's disappointing FISA stance is a strategy. He knows that this FISA issue

won't withstand constitutional scrutiny. He knows it'll pass. Why not have his cake and eat it, too? Pass it now to deflate Right Wing attacks. Once he's in office, he'll correct the issue with a nice Democratic majority. Again, keeping our eyes on the bigger picture is what matters here. We need to stay focused and be a little pragmatic on this.

[Jakes Progress]

27. None of that is happening.

He is not being slashed, burned, denounced, slandered, destroyed, or demolished on DU.

We want him elected, but we think he is doing this the wrong way. First, his stance on the new FISA bill is wrong. Second, we believe the overwhelming evidence that the more he runs to the center, the less chance he has of being elected.

Following the old Beltway wisdom of running to the center to win is like taking advice from David Broder. It is old, doesn't apply to today, and will cost you the election.

We entreat you to help us get Obama elected. Join us in telling him that he is taking the wrong course.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

30. I disagree. I think he needs to remain at the Center. Unfortunately most Americans

aren't at the level of intelligence that we are. They are low information voters. And the Undecideds and Indies will most likely decide this thing. Whether we like it or not, those people tend to be Center-Right on most issues. That's the groups that we need to appeal to in order to win this thing. I sincerely believe that Obama is strategizing. I'm positive that he has to know that outside of us--our political sophistication on these issues, notwithstanding--the average American simply does not understand FISA or the 4th Amendment, etc. Let's get this man elected, then hold his feet to the fire. If he fucks up, we vote his ass out. Simple as that.

[Jakes Progress]

40. But you can't show any evidence

to support your centrist strategy effectiveness. That is just old-inside-the-beltway pundit conventional wisdom. It is out-dated, ineffective, and wrong. Read here to see a very cogent discussion of this issue.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/29/center/index.html

Oh, and please check your distain for the common man before you actually do any community campaign work. Having supporters with that kind of snotty attitude is exactly what gets Obama declared an elitist.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

47. You truly believe that the average American understands what FISA is?

Who's naive? Before you insult me, perhaps you ought to examine some polls. Most Americans don't even know who John Roberts is. You're telling me that they understand the nuance of the FISA bill? As for the elitism charge, that's the pot calling the kettle black. I've spent my entire life doing community work. I can tell you firsthand, FISA is NOT on the list of top priorities for most Americans, and they could care less. It's us so-called elitists who are shitting our pants over this issue.

Please don't insult me. You know nothing about me.

[Mz Pip]

42. Let's do this to McCain first.; n/t

[DFW]

45. That was sorta my point

Because, as you say in your sig, the whole world IS watching

[jasmine621]

46. Hey, we did this to Hillary and she wasn't even the nominee. nt

[TexasObserver]

48. It's the old "doers" versus "complainers" paradigm.

It's found in the military, in education, and in business. There are those who understand the mission and work toward it. Then there are others who never lead, follow poorly, and complain nonstop about those who do.

Those of us who are rational understand well your point, and agree with it. We recognize that Obama must sell himself to an entirely different market than us the next few months, and that means he will be saying some things that don't make us feel as much the focus of his campaign. Adults understand this phenomenon and accept it. We don't start running around with our hair on fire, wailing about how the end is near.

As soon as Obama takes office, there will be plenty to criticize him about it, but as you say, first let's get him elected.

[madfloridian]

49. Oh, dear. So that is what people are who have concerns.

But you guys won this time. How does it feel to silence a whole forum by attacks.

[Lilith Velkor]

51. How does it feel to lie in the bed you made?

:rofl:

[SidneyCarton]

54. Nope.

We have to wreck him, if he wins we have responsibility as the governing party, and no one wants responsibility, then the Republicans would get to criticize us!

[blondeatlast]

61. 1/20/09; noon, DC time. Dress accordingly

(This pic always makes me iggle--note the lack of head but the hands are there...) :rofl:

[Arkana]

63. Good once again slaughtered on the altar of the perfect.

[redqueen]

64. Get him elected? Surely you jest.

FIRST he has to CONVINCE the BESTEST and MOST LIBERALEST liberals that he's good enough!

Cause it's not as if he should be able to count on Dem / liberal support, ya know. He should continue to blow comforting warm smoke up all of our lefty asses, and... well... just fuck moderate or independent votes! If they don't like the stuff we like they're stupid!

Election schmelection! This is about INTEGRITYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!