My response to a serious Hillary supporter who can't (yet) vote for Obama

[DFW]

I have "known" her for years. She is a former Republican who switched to
being a Democrat in 2000-2001. She supported Hillary in the primaries, and
is no idiot. She says she just can't bring herself to vote for Obama--yet.
She can't warm to him or trust him. He just rubs her the wrong way. Hillary
did the same to enough people, so I know what she is saying. Here was my
response to what she said about her current position:

I just read the (Rebecca Traister) article about the many reasons
Hillary supporters are slow to come around to Obama, and
noticed that conspicuous in its absence was the one you
mentioned. You just can't warm to him, can't respect him.

Although I don't share that sentiment, I most surely can
understand it. I'd plead with you to give him a chance to
redeem himself in your eyes. You can always not vote, but
please register just in case.

One big unknown about Obama is who he would have as his
domestic policy team. There is sure to be a vacancy on the
Supreme Court, maybe two or three, during the next four
years. While I have no clue whom he would appoint, I have
every confidence it would NOT be someone who would
vote to strike Roe v. Wade, or vote in favor of curtailing our
civil liberties or increase state-sponsored executions.
McCain publicly shouts that he wants judges that are in favor
of doing both. Wherever the areas may be that you do not
trust Obama or respect him, you can at least be confident
he will act responsibly on this issue, which is big enough
on its own to hold the national referendum that is a
presidential election.

As for foreign policy or fiscal policy, I really don't have any
more of a clear idea than you do on what concrete steps he
has in mind for damage control. The next president will be
mightily hamstrung, no matter what he does. He will have to
play tennis against Roger Federer with both hands tied
behind his back and blindfolded. I.E. he'll need help.

Congress will be there for at least 2 years. If they (or he and
his team) screw up badly, it'll be 1994 all over again. I do
trust him to have learned from recent history not to let that
happen, and Bill and Hillary will be there in any case should
there be warning signs he has forgotten. A sign of a
competent president is that he heeds warning signs, or,
barring that, reacts to real situations that arise from not
heeding them (again, Bill Clinton) rather than pretending they
don't exist (Bush Lite). Whether or not we can trust Obama
and his team to take some preventative political medicine or
not remains to be seen, but we CANNOT afford to let
McCain have his hands on the button that could, at his whim,
or that of Cheney and Rove at a distance, send nuclear
bombs to Iran, North Korea, Pakistan, or anywhere else they
decide to see "terrrrists." I do trust Obama to act responsibly
here, whether it be (due) to his own good common sense, or,
barring that, listening to those who have some. This is one of
the reasons I hope he surprises me and picks Wes Clark for
his VP. Wes does carry some baggage, but is that rare
combination of a hands-on general who has been there, both
in combat and in command, and is a true scholar in his own
right. Obama would respect that.

I guess what I am trying to say is to let him have the chance
to earn enough of your respect to give him your vote. For
whatever it's worth, he certainly has mine, although I voted
against him in the primary. You can always decide at the end
of the day that you can't do it. But for the sake of the country,
we cannot, no way no how, allow John McCain to have
decision power over our armed forces or pick the next
justices to our Supreme Court. It is not an option the country
can afford to choose, and not voting for Obama is, however
unfair it is, however disappointing it is, however hair-tearingly
maddening it is, a de facto vote for McCain. If Obama says
he'll make mistakes, please keep in mind that it also means
that he knows he'll have to fix them, and intends to. Compare
this to Cheney-Bush-McCain, who think that mistakes are
things Democrats make, but since God guides their hand,
they do not. We have no choice but to give Obama the
benefit of the doubt. We cannot afford to give up. It can't be
in our vocabulary, not this time. For the sake of the country
now, and for the sake of the country we leave to the next
generation, we must stop the downward slide into darkness
that would be John McCain in the White House. It's either
that, or start inquiring at the nearest Chinese consulate about
political asylum, and my love for Szechuan and Hunan food
does not extend THAT far.

[cbayer]

1. That's a great response.

Much more likely to bring her on board that some of the responses I have seen.

[DFW]

2. This woman was serious, sensible, and honest with her views.

She deserved to be taken seriously and have her reservations addressed seriously.

Whether or not I was successful remains to be seen, but at the very least, she was due
the same respect and seriousness she showed when expressing her own stance.

[cbayer]

3. Good for you.

I hope she takes the time to listen. Don't tell her about DU. Might scare her off, if you know what I mean.

[DFW]

4. LOL!! OK, my lips are sealed........

[Marrah_G]

5. What a terrific response- I'm impressed

[DFW]

6. When she tells me she has decided to vote for Obama

THEN you can be impressed. For now, I still have my work cut out for me!

[Marrah_G]

7. Well- you presented it in a calm rational non-judgemental way

That goes a very long way. You did not put her on the offensive and that really is key.

Many times points get lost because the person someone is trying to reach just shuts down.

[Dems to Win]

8. A good and respectful response - kudos

A few more talking points I'll offer:

In his campaign, Obama has surrounded himself with very competent people, and run a tight ship -- that's a very good sign. You are right to point out the importance of the people he will surround himself with as president.

If Obama seems too young or inexperienced -- think back to Bill Clinton! Obama is about Clinton's age when he became president, he is being criticized as inexperienced -- it's deja vu all over again. (though this talking point might not work with an ex-Repub...) Clinton was also known as the 'man from Hope', Obama is running on hope -- there are lots of similarities. I truly believe that Obama is not as much of a 'risk' as he's been portrayed -- we've elected people of his age and experience level before.

Obama seems willing to listen, and thoughtfully consider opposing ideas. That alone will be an immense improvement over George Bush.

Good luck and best regards.

[DFW]

11. Thanks! I'll use some of those.

[DeepModem Mom]

9. I found out just last night that one of my very best friends I hadn't seen in a while...

is in this category. This is the first of my friends and family who supported Hillary who did not immediately begin supporting Obama. I was shocked, as I have said here I can't imagine anyone making the decision to vote for McCain. I wasn't as cool as you -- I kind of lost it, and began begging her, "Please.....!"

This is a whipsmart, highly educated, strong feminist woman. She didn't much like Obama from the start, but as the campaign went on, with the media treatment of Hillary, her anger grew to where she will vote for McCain. I could understand one thing: her anger. I supported Obama from the beginning, but I, too, became angrier by the day at media coverage of Hillary. So she and I had common ground on that. But she feels Obama himself had a hand in the treatment of Hillary. She was adamant. She would not consider voting for Obama, even after I talked about the Court, Roe, Iraq. Her anger was that strong.

I think as Obama does more of what he's doing, making a concerted effort to let people know him and his policies better, she may come around. I think, too -- and this is key -- she has been hoodwinked by the media into thinking McCain is a moderate. I'll work on that, and hope that by November I can persuade her to vote in her, and the country's, best interest.

Thanks for your helpful post.

[Donkey_Punch_Dubya]

10. You can help convince this friend if she is a McCain 2008, Clinton 2012 person

like I have seen several times on blog comments. Tell her that being an incumbent president is a huge advantage, and if McCain wins this year, he will certainly win reelection. Hillary will have almost no shot of unseating an incumbent McCain. In 2004 with all the bad things going on in the country and the terrible approval ratings, Bush managed to get reelected. In 1995 all of the coverage of Bill Clinton was negative and the GOP had just taken both houses of Congress. Many people I knew thought Clinton had no chance of winning reelection, but he won very handily in an electoral landslide.

Tell her that voting for McCain and helping him win now is an 8 year commitment, and look what has happened in the eight years of Bush's presidency. Tell her that Hillary desperately wants all of her supporters to help elect Obama and she would be breaking Hillary's heart by voting for McCain, as she stated.

[DeepModem Mom]

19. Good, helpful points, Donkey. Thank you! nt

[DFW]

12. She is not intending to vote for McCain

She does not want to see McCain elected at all. That is an advantage. Voting
for McCain is a purely emotional reaction to Obama's nomination. This woman is
not like that. Her issues are with Obama as a person, and that is what needs to
be overcome. She no more wants to see McCain elected than we do. I have a head
start in that respect. Democrats who are willing to vote McCain out of spite are
a far greater obstacle to overcome, and a far greater danger.

[DeepModem Mom]

20. That's an important observation, DFW. You're right. She doesn't really want...

to see McCain elected. She just has to work past her emotions. I'm wondering if even the upcoming joint appearance in "Unity" might be a start. And also, I think if she knew more and thought about Michelle Obama she might find her a woman to admire, whose presence in the WH would be positive.

[sundancekid]

35. in an almost identical situation to yours, my friend said she would vote Nader ...

... after a couple of hours of respectful and friendly conversation, I simply said that I understood that Nader would be a "safe place" where to put her disappointment now, but that later on she would no doubt, given her intelligence and passion, consider or reconsider whether that initial safe place of the very fine public citizen would end up causing McCain to make the most important women's issues decisions in our generation ... she appreciated the non-judgmental comfort of being given a safe bench on which to rest - she told me that after all it was a while b4 November yet, and that .......... yes, things could change in how she felt.

At first my heart was simply shattered that the two of us for the first time in 10 years could want the same outcome but would decide on such different approaches ... I think it helped that I could share my
own deep hurts that came from the Clinton campaign tactics -- nothing accusatory or offensive in my words, just pointing out that there was enough pain out there for both sides .... At the end, even though this initial processing did not resolve the issue completely, we began the healing because we had both chosen to stand in the breach WITH and FOR each other, without either judgment or condemnation.

[DFW]

13. Fortunately, I am not confronting anger that intense

Actually, not even anger at all. My friend has problems with Obama,
not with any other issue. That is the angle from which I have to
address her issues.

[dansolo]

39. How does anger with the media translate to voting for McCain

This is one thing I still can't understand. The very same media people who supposedly were so terrible to Clinton are doing everything they can to mask McCain's deficiencies. By threatening to vote for McCain, these voters are validating what the media has been doing all along. Why can't they see that they are being manipulated by the media? Dissention amongst the Democrats is exactly what they want, because they want to keep the story alive, and the election close.

[DeepModem Mom]

40. Good point, dansolo. Thanks. nt

[DFW]

14. Here is what we're up against

This is her response to my answer. We don't have to agree with her, but we
ignore the concerns of people like her at our peril. Civil, well thought-out
answers will get us somewhere. Anger and snark will not. People like this
woman are not unreasonable, and are not against us. They just need to be
convinced to be with us. Read carefully, and take note, because these people
are NOT our enemies:


I have talked with hundreds of Clinton supporters - in person and on line - and most
have said the main reason they are "slow to come around to Obama", or are switching
to McCain, or just won't vote this November has to do with Obama himself. With the
Rovian campaign he has run, the fancy speeches with little substance, the arrogance
and eliteism - there is a lot of distrust and lack of respect for the man. Many of
us have known these same feelings toward Bush - and that is really scary!

I am personally willing to keep trying to warm up to Obama. I keep coming back here*
to read the most sensible of posts with reasons to back Obama - or to hold my nose and
vote for him. But it is going to take time and some serious changes. I was very
disappointed when he opted out of public financing for his campaign - another sign
of his arrogance. I am really tired of the "staging" - i.e. going to Minneapolis
for his "victory speech" (do you know how many Republicans that "staging" angered) - going
to Grand Rapids (the most Republican city in Michigan) for a large rally on his first visit
to Michigan (do you know how many Democrats that "staging" angered) - and now to Unity, New
Hampshire for the first campaigning with Hillary (how cute!). I need to know not just what
he stands for, but what he is really going to do about the major issues facing this country.
I need to know that he is really interested in serving the country and not just running to
make history. I need to know that he won't spend his first term running for his second
term (like Bush did). I need to know that he really wants my vote.


* "here" means the board on which she made her post to me, not DU

[Starbucks Anarchist]

17. I love how they throw around these charges of "arrogance" and "elitism."

You know, without backing it up at all.

And if your friend gets upset about "staging," then I assume she must be new to politics.

The future of the world is at stake, and she worries about this bullshit. :banghead:

[DFW]

30. In a sense, you're right--she is fairly new to politics.

And even newer to being active. People worry about all kinds of different stuff.
If all we address is our own worries and ignore those of others who think differently,
we won't look very inclusive, will we? Leave the my way or the highway stuff to the
Republicans. They're more practiced at it than we are anyway.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

34. These are our choices:

Obama or McCain.

At a certain point, we do have to adopt a "my way or the highway" attitude. We can't spend all of our time catering to people who refuse to look beyond the BS that the MSM spews daily.

A rational, thinking adult should inform themselves of the candidates and the issues instead of being distracted by spin, lies and pettiness.

[Blondiegrrl]

38. I find those charges completely bewildering.

One of the many reasons I like Obama is that I "get" him and I feel he "gets" me. There is a complete lack of arrogance there. He seems refreshingly NORMAL.

[MaryRN]

24. About time I've seen a rational AND respectful response to one who isn't "on board."

Neither am I, nor will I be but yours is the first response I've haven't had to delete out of disgust. You have a good understanding of human nature.

[Donkey_Punch_Dubya]

25. I can answer this as someone who didn't take sides in the primary

I started coming here in april after a break for a year (I was a lurker from 3 weeks before the 2004 election until I registered in may). I can understand your friends sentiment about hillary being attacked, as it seemed to me there were lots of vicious attacks on her and anything she said was sometimes pounced on and declared racist or lying. I can understand some of her concerns, but you should point her to the wikileaks document about the mccain campaigns memo about going to pro-hillary websites and sowing dissent and hatred. She should know that some of the hundreds of hillfans she's talked to online are fakers passing rumors about Obama to help mCcain. I've seen comments on national blogs from supposed hillfans that pass outright lies about Obama as fact, so I know it's real.

I don't get her problem with the "staging". Does it piss her off because she thinks Obama chose the GOP convention site just to anger repubs? Tell her that Demoratic stragegist and VIPs have seen many losing campaigns when they tried to be classy and were fucked over for it. They are pissed off now, and they are waging more aggressive campaigns as a result. Some of the results of that are the heated primary, but that kind of aggressive campaigning is necessary in dire times after people played nice and lost (like Dukakis, Gore and Kerry).

It would help if Obama would come out and say Bill Clinton was the best president in 40 years, now that he's not battling his wife, and he will do that. Obama doesn't have tons of experience, but he has good experience in IL and has never been fake or just a suit.

Many of the things that happened in the primary were not directly Obama. He had a staff that recognized how crucial this election was, not to make history but to restore our country to what it should be. They were very aggressive, as will be needed to beat the slanted media and natural GOP advantages in November. Remind her that Hillary said it would break her heart if her supporters don't vote for Barack Obama. She's not saying this with a metaphorical gun to her head, she knows how similar she is to him in policy and outlook. And incumbent McCain will be extremely hard to beat if he wins this year with the worst ratings ever for his party's president and the historically bad "wrong track" numbers. This is a small window to save the country and it won't last for 4 years. We have to do it now like Hillary wants.

[Dems to Win]

33. I agree, This a critical election, and small window

This is a very crucial election, and a window of opportunity for the Democrats. I think that all of the Democratic leaders have recognized this.

It's been reported that Bill and Hillary Clinton honestly and wholeheartedly believe that Obama cannot win the GE, and that is why she continued to run so long and so hard.

Similarly, I think that Obama, his staff, and the Democratic leadership (Kerry, Kennedy, Dean, Pelosi) honestly and wholeheartedly believe that Hillary Clinton could not have won the GE, because of her high negatives and heavy Clinton baggage.

That is why Senator Obama stepped forward to run at this time, and why he received so much support from leading Democrats.

I've not heard this reported in the media anywhere, it is just my personal opinion about the Democratic leadership's private thoughts.

[Dems to Win]

27. My response to your friend

Thank you for this thread, DFW. I think it is very valuable to share ideas on how to respectfully persuade people to support Obama.

Here are my thoughts. You're welcome to cut-and-paste into a post to your friend. You can say it's from a 50ish pasty-faced woman for Obama :7
Or not. Whatever you feel is right.

I think of Rovian tactics as accusing the opponent of one's own weaknesses. For example, George Bush, AWOL National Guarder accusing John Kerry, Vietnam vet and purple heart recipient, of shirking and dishonorable service. Rovian could also be called Chutzpah! to the MAX.

I don't really see examples of the Obama campaign being Rovian. Just my opinion, of course, and I'm not 100% aware of everything that's happened in the entire campaign.

"Staging" is another matter. Image-building seems to be everything these days, and staging is a big part of that. All campaigns try to do it (though McCain's campaign seems not to be doing it very well...). Senator Clinton's speeches from the backs of pick-up trucks were conscious staging, for example. It's not just the enormous rallies that are staged.

Senator Obama is trying to WIN. He's trying to appear Presidential, he's trying to create a seemingly-unstoppable movement, and that involves creating a public image. Not that I like it particularly, but I DO want a Democrat to win this GE.

Bill Clinton went out of his way to make people mad sometimes -- the Sister Souljah moment, for example. Sometimes winning politicians do that. I'm not a good triangulator, myself -- I'm a linear, straightforward kind of gal. I just have to accept and trust that such measures are necessary to win in this wacky environment, and Obama knows much better than I how to do it.

IF Obama and large majorities of Democrats are elected to both houses, here are 2 big things that I expect to happen:

1) President Obama's foreign policy will be MUCH less belligerent than U.S. policy of the last 8 years

2) Senator Clinton will use her enormous prestige and clout to get a universal health care bill passed through Congress, and President Obama WILL sign it. We may all call it ClintonCare for generations to come.

These are things I believe as a result of listening to Obama's victory speech, among other sources. His big speeches do contain real information, I think.

There are more changes I expect, but these 2 alone are enough to make me an enthusiastic Obama supporter, particularly when compared to McCain.

Thank you for your consideration. I appreciate your willingness to look for reasons to support Senator Obama.

[DFW]

31. Thanks for that. I may well show her some of it.

[cboy4]

15. Well I'm voting for Obama, but I absolutely understand

your friend's position on not being able to trust Obama.

My prediction dating back to winter was that if he's elected, he'll be changing his positions if it's politically advantageous.

And we all know which infamous incident, one that I'm not bringing up in the spirit of the GE, that triggered my mistrust.

Having said all of that, he's 100 times better than McCain.

[DFW]

16. You got it!

And with Obama, there is the potential of adding a zero to that 100, whereas
McCain is presenting his best side already. "Compassionate" conservative is
now "maverick" conservative, and McCain is neither--just another far rightist
looking for an acceptable label to make the poison taste better as it goes down.

[JoFerret]

37. Fair comment

.

[dsomuah]

18. Before we put too much energy into convincing her, which state does she live in?

I hate to sound pragmatic, but this is our reality.

If she lives in New York, or California or even Texas or Alabama I'm not too concerned.

I'm concerned more with winning the election right now. Disaffected democrats who STILL don't have faith in what Obama can do will just have to wait to see what an Obama white house will be like.

I would hate to be Obama these past two years. How do you as a presidential candidate continue to have faith when you are constantly facing people who have doubt? It seems to me like for the past two years all I've heard is people giving reasons why Obama CAN'T do it.

People said "White voters will not vote for black presidential candidate." Then they saw Obama win primaries in some of the whitest states in the country. People said: "A presidential candidate cannot raise enough money to be a serious contender without sucking up to the big money donors" Then they saw Obama build an impressive 1.5 million strong donor base. People said: "No canidate who has had more than 50% support in the polls has gone on to lose the nomination. Hillary is unbeatable" well we know what happened with that. People said: "The contest will be over on Super Tuesday." but they forgot the states after Super Tuesday. 8 states, 500 pledged delegates at state and Obama won every single one of them, most of them by huge margins. Then Hillary supporters said: "But he can't win the general election, Hillary won in all states that matter." But look at the polls. If things keep going the way they are going now, a black man will pull more electoral votes than George Bush did.

As an Obama supporter I've listened to a lot of doubters. Hell I've been a doubter myself at times. I know that Obama is more fit to be president than I will ever be because he has way more faith than me, and far more faith than your friend the Clinton supporter.

He also has a lot more patience than me because I'm kinda sick of trying to win over doubters. So unless you live in a swing state, I'm going to say the same thing I said on Super Tuesday, the same thing I said to Hillary supporters who said he can't win. To anyone who has doubts about the kind of president Obama will be, I just say: Wait and see. I'm not willing to argue any further than that, unless you happen to live in a swing state.

I have work to do. We have to get this man in the white house. I only have a limited amount of time I can spend listening to yet another doubter.

[DFW]

26. For the record, she lives in Michigan

She only switched her registration from Republican to Democrat after the 2000 election.

She is exactly the sort of person that we need to put us over the top. 5 percentage point
leads in the polls won't be enough to overcome Republican electoral fraud, I'm fairly sure,
even in states like Michigan, with Democratic governors.

[quiet.american]

21. It remains a big mystery to me as to why someone "can't trust" Obama, but Clinton had their "trust."

For one thing, during the campaign, Hillary Clinton admitted at least once that she'd said something she knew not to be accurate. So, it's really hard for me to buy someone's argument that they can't trust Obama, but they wholeheartedly trusted Clinton, especially when they're supposed to be people of some intelligence who are not ignorant of what went on during the campaign.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

22. DFW, I always enjoy reading your post.

Yet I think on a certain level I enjoyed todays more than others.

Your response was respectful and thought provoking. Which was exactly what the situation warranted.

Thank you for posting it so that some of the rest of us can take notes on your style.

[blues90]

23. It took this entire OP to say you are for Obama ?

And anyone who is not is just ignorant or bitter.

With McCain as the back drop and Hillary bashed clear to hell and back who does this leave?

What many people and not only women are put off by is the way Hillary was attacked endlessly and now they should just get over it because of the same lame issue of the supreme court?

It was after all the Dems who confirmed Alito and Roberts as well as Rice and torture boy .

The Dem party is dead and dead can be now or have you not been paying attention? They tossed away the 4th ammendment as garbage and now suddenly Obama is going to fix the world.

All this is is for the big win and to make some sort of history , and any political figure will say anything to get the win. Aways have , always will.

Anyone who takes a politician at their word is a fool .

[DFW]

28. The OP had little to nothing to do with whom I was for

And for the record, when Al Gore said he wasn't running, I became a big neutral.
I was never an Obama supporter per se, but ALWAYS a supporter of Gore and Dean,
and if there's one thing I really support, it's the end of Republican rule at 1600.

[DFW]

29. Delete due to duplication

[fiorello]

32. Some links for responding to skeptics

I put together a bunch of background info on Obama that I thought might convince skeptics - I foolishly put it in a separate post. It might help. Anyways, here it is. This is the stuff that convinced me to support Obama:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6406074

(A few of the sources include negative information on Hillary Clinton - please excuse this, they date from the primary campaign.)

(1) Foreign Policy: Obama's team of advisors consist mainly of people who (like him) opposed the Iraq war from the start.

They include some very knowledgeable 'tough guys' - Richard Clarke (who tried to warn Bush about the terrorist threat back when Bush's advisors claimed that Clinton had 'a terrorism fetish'), and Zbignew Brezhinsky (a tough guy who was smart enough to warn against the Iraq invasion) - and also human rights experts such as Samantha Power.

So, whatever future foreign policy issues await, they will be addressed by people who got the last one right.

Sources:
http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4940
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080121/berman

(2) Economic policy: Obama's main economic goal is to reduce the massive and growing gap between rich and poor in the U.S. He would do this mainly through shifts in taxes. Obama's economic team includes 'centrists' but it also includes progressives.

Obama's response to the current housing problem emphasizes that the root cause is the dismantling of government regulations (mainly by Republicans). "Mr. Obama proposed to rebuild the governments regulatory structure and promised not to clamp a too-tight hand on economic innovation. But he was unsparing in his view that industry lobbyists and weak legislators produced a misshapen deregulation of the economy."

Sources:
Rich-poor income gap:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/02/us/politics/02obama.h...

Attitude toward regulation and the housing crisis:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/27/us/politics/27cnd-dem...

Advisors: Jason Furman, Jared Bernstein, James Galbraith.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C07E4DB...

(Paul Krugman writes that Jason Furman is "a very good guy, with a solid track record as a progressive":
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/11/jason-and-t... )

(3) Obama supports a near-universal health care proposal, with only minor differences from John Edwards' and Hillary Clinton's. (May have been forgotten in the heat of the primary.)

Source.
http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/27 /

(4) Obama's record as a legislator: most notable is his strong advocacy for civil liberties, and his work for ethics reform (with Russ Feingold).. His record in Illinois is often overlooked.

Sources:
Record in Illinois:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

Record in Washington: Obama's work with Feingold on ethics reform.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

Also: 'A card-carrying civil libertarian':
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/01/opinion/01rosen.html?...

(5) Obama as a person: Obama is not an 'empty suit'. His two books have shown him to be a thoughtful person who goes far beyond campaign cliches.

There is also his personal history: from Harvard Law School (where he excelled) to community organizing in Chicago. Not many politicians have a record of actively working to help poor people.

Sources:
Obama's Chicago background.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/us/politics/11chicago...

Obama's books:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/us/politics/18memoirs...
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/21063

About Obama's broader view of politics:

"the main reason for his success surely has to do with the central theme of his rhetoric. In the convention speech, as in all his major speeches, Obama aimed far higher than the usual uninspiring Democratic laundry list of health care, good jobs, devotion to Roe v. Wade, and the rest. His subject is our shared civic culture, which he sees as under threat - mostly from the right
but also from the left.... He wants a political culture that is, to be sure, liberal in its outlook but does the difficult work of trying to speak to people who don't share liberalism's assumptions (without being accommodationist to conservatives in power; Obama is no Joe Lieberman)."

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/19651

[Stardust]

41. Wow...this response alone merits its own bookmark!

[Dems to Win]

36. Kick for a thoughtful thread

[TheKentuckian]

42. I know I have to sound like an ass

but why in God's name would it take more than a moment of quiet thought to see Obama beats McCain even if it's for no better reason than to be lied to more convincingly if they have any marbles at all?

So what if Obama is a puppet? I'd assume he's Kerry's, Kennedy's, and Deans's if by some chance he is. Which he's not, not in the Bush format anyway, the man is clearly too bright for that.

Hell, I'll take a secret Muslim or a black liberationists over more neocons but I have ZERO belief/concern/fear of that being the case.

I just have to really wonder what anyone could fear or distrust Obama about to actually believe that another four years of neocon rule is an acceptable alternative/risk?

I'm really and truly just asking because my gut instinct is just to declare such folks idiots. I'm old enough to run for President. It's not the nasty reaction of a child that I have but rather that I honestly can't see a way not to be a fool and still go down this path.