If John McCain is a great leader, why didn't the Navy use him as one?

[NJmaverick]

You look at his career and he was rarely put in charge of anything. That despite having gone to both the Naval Academy and the Naval War College. That despite having a powerful father who was an Admiral and a grandfather who was an admiral. Other than a brief stint as an airwing commander, he was never put in charge of anything. So if the navy didn't think much of his leadership and management abilites, why would we want him as President? I think this is a strong avenue of attack on John McCain. He brags about his experience, but it's not really that impressive and it shows someone who is not leadership material.

Here is a good summary of his naval career

http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2008/02/02/mccains-military-career/

[Occam Bandage]

1. A good question. The only achievements he's attained in life were either

handed to him by his father, handed to him by Cindy, or handed to him by Cindy's father. Without nepotism, he'd be a bum.

[hobbit709]

2. That's why he's bush III

[JaneQPublic]

4. Yep, another spoiled brat making a career from Daddy's good name (nt)

[NJmaverick]

3. Sounds a lot like another politician we all know

[no_hypocrisy]

5. His father didn't have enough influence at the Pentagon I suppose.

[NJmaverick]

8. His father was very powerful, but that only gets you so far

when your son is a total dud

[City Lights]

6. I envision the standard GOP "young and irresponsible" excuse being used here.

Remember, for some GOPers, adulthood doesn't even begin until sometime in their 40s, so they don't reach maturity until sometime in their 50s or 60s. McCain was too young and irresponsible for a leadership role while he was in the Navy. But now that he's in his 70s, he's mature enough to be a "great" leader. :eyes:

[NJmaverick]

9. You are probably right, but I think it's good to go on the offensive

and not spend all our time defending Obama, from repuke attacks. McCain has zero credentials to be president, and that is (or should be) a big issue.

[City Lights]

16. Agreed.

And if they try to use the "young and irresponsible" defense with McCain, we need to point out how lame it is.

I also think we need to push McCain's buttons to make him lose his temper. He's such a hothead that it should be fairly easy.

[NJmaverick]

17. It's funny I have been wondering when he would blow his top

His easy time is over, and now he is in for one tough and long campaign. At some point, he is bound to lose that legendary temper and then all hell is going to break loose.

[Hieronymus]

7. McCain was fifth from the bottom of his graduating class at Annapolis.

[Virginia Dare]

10. Cindy lets him be in charge of the BBQ..

:shrug:

[havocmom]

11. K&R to good question to pose at water coolers and check-out lines across America

DU, BE the media! :thumbsup:

[NJmaverick]

13. I agree, the media should be raising this issue, but that doesn't mean

we can't. We can circulate emails, post on message boards and blogs. Make it a major issue, and force the media to confront it.

[sourmilk]

12. Spot on - good question.

For pretty much the same reasons that he was not promoted, as other captives were, while in captivity in North Vietnam, I suppose.

His candidacy is a complete enigma, to me. How in the world can the Repiglicans be running a guy whose captive history is classified? I can't believe that Republicans have not questioned this at every turn. I'm pretty sure that all this will change, now that he is running for Prez.

His entire captive history (as well as reportedly 32 pro-VietCong speeches) is an absolute BLACK HOLE. All we know is that he agreed to cooperate in exchange for medical treatment - the rest of his captive record has been sealed FOREVER.

The great thing about this is that Dems need never bring it to light. There are so many paranoid, delusional Repiglicans that they will do it all for us...

[NJmaverick]

15. I really don't want to go there, his POW years

That is the sort of sleezy tactic the right wing uses (in fact they have used it against him already). I would like to know why the Navy thought so little of McCains ability to lead. That is a fair question, I believe.

[sourmilk]

18. Good question, as I said.

Undoubtedly, the answer, like a lot of his military record, will have to remain "classified" for all eternity.

[Cronus Protagonist]

14. Once a traitor, always a traitor

n/t

[Forkboy]

19. Nice angle of attack.

K&R

[margotb822]

20. If I could...

I'm a junior officer in the Navy, and I'm not in charge of anything. II have lead a division of about 20, but I didn't consider that being in charge of anything (mostly, I was the shit screen for when something went wrong). I do my job well, but I'm still too junior to be responsible for something major. Most people aren't "in charge" of something significant until they have been in 17+ years. It's just the way it goes.

I think a better questions is why the Navy let him continue to be a pilot after he crashed so many planes. I know people that had one mistake in flight school (not involving totalling a plane) and they got the boot.

McCain got what he wanted in the Navy because of his family. I think he just took it all for granted. And, personally, I question his sense of entitlement as to how it relates to his leadership ability.

[NJmaverick]

21. He was in the Navy for 23 years (granted 5 were as a POW)

but still you would think he wouldn't had some sort of command, after all that time.

[margotb822]

23. I can't say

I don't know the flight community progression that well (especially the way it was back then). I think that after he got shot down, was a POW and then crashed another plane, it pretty much killed his chances for command of anything. But, Admiral Nimitz did run his first ship aground and then became a 5-star.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who are in command that are absolutely terrible. I think it's more about time served than actual leadership skills. I bet, if he had stayed in he would have gone on to command something. But, that could just be my reflection on the sad state of the Navy now. I think McCain got out because he knew he would never be like his father or grandfather. He had to upstage them somehow, but the Navy wasn't the place to do it. I think that he's a crappy leader, but that's basically unrelated to his time in the Navy. After all, he got a lot more second chances than anyone else. Most people who want to stay in get one (or sometimes none).

[old mark]

22. He was a wing commander when he was shot down

but I don't know for how long, and that may be because he was next in line. Many service jobs go by rank, and if a certain job calls for a certain rank, the one who has held that rank longest gets the job.
There was a war, and many Navy aviators were getting killed.

mark

[Disturbed]

24. McLame was not going to be promoted to Admiral.

That is the reason he quit the Navy. The story that Lehman offered him the Admiral star is
a blatant lie. McLame is a opportunist & an Asshole. He would probably be a worse Pres. than Dumbya. Yeah, that is a high benchmark.

[NJmaverick]

25. yup, that pretty much sums it up