MSNBC First Read: Not Moving On

[madwivoter]

I did not hear the original criticism of MoveOn's ad against McNasty, but I do find it interesting how important Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro seem to think their opinions are.

*** Not Moving On: Yesterday, one of us was very critical of the new MoveOn/AFSCME ad that uses a mother and her new baby to criticize McCain on the war. Advocates of the ad pushed back on the criticism noting: 1) it tested very well, particularly with women; 2) if Obama isn't going to challenge McCain on Iraq, MoveOn will; and 3) the group has been against the war from the beginning, and feels it has earned the right to go after McCain on this issue. All of these points we get. Perhaps the most interesting thing is the fact that the group is upset that Obama is leaving McCain’s new TV ad about the war unchallenged. How does the Obama camp feel about being second-guessed so publicly in strategy? And will Obama have to condemn the ad because he doesn't want indie groups messing with his strategy?

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/18/1151622.aspx

[rocktivity]

1. Get off your high horse, First Read

You and Politico ain't all that--DU and Daily Kos, MoveOn and the like are.

:headbang:
rocknation

[madwivoter]

4. Agreed.

I have pretty low expectations of anyone related to M$M.

The thing that really got to me was the "1), 2)" suggestions to the Obama campaign. Ugh.

[PoliticalAmazon]

16. MSM is just out of touch with their viewing masses....

The fact that Abrams would continue his lame-ass interviews in the lead-up to the Gore endorsement of Obama was another indication of their cluelessness (and narcissisity, IMO).

These pronouncements the talking heads make are so arrogant, and often arrogantly wrong.

[rocktivity]

25. Politico and FirstRead think the GE blogosphere revolves around them

Quite the opposite--they're corporate media masquerading as bloggers!

:headbang:
rocknation

[tishaLA]

2. The irony here is that Todd said yesterday that it was over the top

and now he admits that it tested well, especially among women. So which one is it? Over the top or tests well? And doesn't his admission of it testing well undermine everything he said about it yesterday? Geez.

[TwilightGardener]

3. MoveOn did this to our candidates with the General Betrayus bullshit--

puts controversial ads out there, and then forces the Dem campaigns (which are linked to everything MoveOn does, sadly) to deal with the fallout, as if they had something to do with the ads. I wish, and I'll bet Obama wishes, they would stop with the ads--HE needs to control the message now, and MoveOn needs to stop desperately grabbing for attention.

[Oregone]

5. Obama doesn't own "the message" of PACs and 527's

It would be illegal for him to do so. Look, they are different, unaffiliated entities. If anything, the Democrats should stress that point instead of falling in line with Republicans and condemning their ads. The reality is that there are some people who have formed their own political groups because they find they have no voice in the main two. Being so, and under the law, they are legally allowed to put forth whatever message they choose in their own name and no campaign has the right to interfere with that.

[TwilightGardener]

6. I'm not talking about legality--I'm talking about good sense, of which MoveOn has none.

After the backlash against Dems last fall, from an ad they had NOTHING to do with, MoveOn should recognize that the Dem candidate is going to be linked to whatever they do. If they had a collective brain among them, they would avoid controversy for the next five months--unless, of course, they want Obama's campaign to be in jeopardy. MoveOn is like a dirty word to much of the country--we don't need Obama to have to suffer from the doings of what many middle-of-the-road voters see as extreme-left anti-military hippies. Even Hillary started mocking the "MoveOn crowd" as too far left when they didn't endorse her--whether or not it's fair, they need to lay low.

[Oregone]

7. I just can't accept that...

Look, its a group where people can pool their money together so they can publicly display a message that desperately needs to be said. In dire times when Democrats are not exercising their duties to impeach, when corporate handouts are plentiful, when the ending of any war looks bleak, it often looks like these people are the only ones with common sense and a collective brain (whose message is needed). By telling them that they should be quiet and shut up, don't you think that nullifies the only functioning common sense in this country? You are saying that its ok to have an opinion, as long as you keep it to yourself....

Look, we have seen the complicit nature of the Democratic Party within the Bush era. We will not move beyond these dark times by having everyone, through fear, shut their mouth and just hope to win. There will continue to be no accountability if there is no public voice.

Further, and fortunately, what MoveOn does do is redefine "the left" to a place that is not center-right (where the Democratic Party is). If "the left" can be redefined in the public's mine through a voice like this, it allows the Democratic party to realign somewhere in the middle (which is hopefully far more progressive than where they currently stand). This allows the Democrats to remain "mainstream" and "moderate" in contrast to far left groups like MoveOn.

[TwilightGardener]

11. No, MoveOn and the Dem party are one and the same once Republicans

and the media get done using their ads against Obama, Hillary, etc. I am not opposed to much of what MoveOn does, all I'm saying is that they need to stop generating controversy that will ultimately hurt our nominee--just for FIVE MONTHS. That's it--five months. Let Obama do what he needs to do to beat McCain without having to answer for an outside group. Then they can go back to making silly and disrespectful rhymes of military leaders' names to their hearts' content.

[madfloridian]

14. A mother and her baby are not controversy. They are real.

Why are you reacting like this to that ad?

[TwilightGardener]

18. I didn't like it--thought it was overemotional, squishy, melodramatic.

And overtly manipulative. And, it makes Dems look like they refuse to allow their children to grow up and join the military--because they just love their babies too much! Ack. Yeah, Iraq is bullshit, no one really wants to die there or send their kids to die there, but McCain is running on a story of past sacrifice for his country--Dems don't want to look unwilling to make patriotic sacrifices (not MY child!)--not in the abstract. The ad could have been done better. Instead, it sends an unfortunate "selfish" message that plays right into the GOP's hands.

[madwivoter]

22. What I take away from the ad

Is the fact that a young woman with a baby on her lap might have to worry about that baby being sent to fight an unnecessary war, about the sheer possibility that it could go on that long.

[tsuki]

23. That happened in Viet-Nam. If the Dem's had not de-funded the war,

my brother would have been eligible (had he not gone to university) to be drafted for the war his father fought in.

I found the ad VERY relevant.

[high density]

9. Yep. If people stopped giving money to MoveOn...

...this insanity would stop. MoveOn doesn't seem to realize that provocative advertising doesn't work for the left side of the spectrum, or maybe we just can't get the right tone. For one thing the ads never seem to sting enough to make a raw impact to begin with. It's not like they're putting out Willie Horton or Daisy ads, it's often this wussy bullshit stuff that has no purpose but to agitate people. Then after that the door is opened to let the media spank our candidates on this bullshit, as if the candidates were conducting the attack themselves.

[madfloridian]

10. What is wrong with the ad? Do you want to give YOUR child to McCain

for his 100 year war?

[TwilightGardener]

12. I thought the ad was cheesy and silly. Sorry, there are better ways

to hit McCain on his war-forever status than to bring in an air-headed actress to gush about how her baby makes her "heart skip a beat every time she looks at him"--bleahhhh--and then say, "You can't have him!" Makes Dems look like they don't want their children to join the military, Iraq or not--and as a military wife myself, that's not a message we really want to send.

[madfloridian]

13. You surprise me. I loved the ad. McCain is a war monger. Needs to be called out.

We don't need a party that is afraid of stuff like that.

They reacted that way because the ad was so effective.

[ejpoeta]

17. i want them to make mccain explain how he is going to fill the ranks

when for some unknown reason, people aren't flocking in droves to join the military? how is he going to continue the two wars we have and continue to deal with other issues (iran) without reinstating the draft? How can he continue this with the military at a breaking point?

[TwilightGardener]

19. It's not the Dem party's ad--you've just highlighted why it's a bad idea

for MoveOn to insert themselves into the campaign. Obama and the Democratic Party should be controlling the message now--not having to answer for the creative license of an outside group.

[madfloridian]

20. So it's ok for the right wing, but not ok for us?

The ad is great, and I am very confused over your opposition to it.

[TwilightGardener]

21. Well, I just didn't like it, for reasons explained above. But whether or not I personally like it,

I don't think MoveOn should generate any sort of controversy right now. There is no harm to playing it safe and laying low for the next few months--there is no point to risking turning off any segment of voters right now, by giving the media and the GOP ammo.

[madfloridian]

24. What segment did the ad turn off?

[madfloridian]

8. Oh, wait....now we are condemning that great ad about Alex?

And letting Chuck Todd manipulate our minds into thinking Move On is our enemy?

I never cease to be amazed.

[1Hippiechick]

15. Everyone is missing another point to this ad - the impact on the elderly who support war!

I see this ad as a perfect example to remind grandparents or great-grandparents--the much older generation who has so supported the war based on Bush's platform of FEAR--that this war nonsense stands to impact their grandchildren or greatgrandhildren - this ad brings it home and makes it personal. I wish we had had these ads back in the 70s and 80s when our sons were growing up. We told them about VietNam AND that if the draft were ever reinstated, we would HELP them leave the country. As far as other military posters here who are offended by my position, too bad. If we had an administration that used the military to defend our borders rather than wage war on other countries, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now. I am entitled to my position based on my younger son serving in the 82nd Airborne plus a long family history of military service.

[Arugula Latte]

26. My husband and I have agreed that we WILL keep our son out of the military

by any means necessary.

[1Hippiechick]

27. Good for you! "War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector

enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." John F. Kennedy