Heads Up: Fuckstick Nader is taking 6%.

[bunnies]

Nader Shows Strength In Poll

A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll released Friday shows Barack Obama leading John McCain 49 percent to 46 percent among registered voters in a head-to-head match up – with the three point difference within the poll's margin of error.

But consider the results when two other candidates are added to the mix: When pollsters asked not just about Obama and McCain but also Libertarian party candidate Bob Barr and independent Ralph Nader, Obama led 47 percent to 43 percent, with Barr taking two percent and Nader taking six percent. Nader only took 1 percent of the vote in his last run for president in 2004.

Both Barr and Nader are potential spoilers for the major party candidates. Last week, as the Boston Globe reports, Nader, who is to the left of Barack Obama, sent out a fundraising appeal approvingly quoting novelist Russell Banks' comments about the presumptive Democratic nominee.

"Obama is feeding a dream -- a dream of change and renewal," Banks said. "He's feeding a dream that the conditions that surround us -- Iraq, the economy, the racial divide, the class divide in this country -- that they are magically going to go away by voting for this centrist Democrat."

(snip)

Do we have something to worry about? :shrug:

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/06/09/politics/horserace/entry4165206.shtml

[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. who is Nader running for?

[Selatius]

6. He represents himself. The Green Party, as far as I know, hasn't chosen him.

Even if Nader won in some bizzaro world, he would have no political coat tails for any other party out there.

[bunnies]

13. Yep. The greens have McKinney.

The Libertarians have Barr. And Nader just has himself.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

23. maybe Cynthia McKinney can take his vote?

[Heather MC]

77. Not even Michael Moore backs Nader anymore

He said Nader is just out for himself now adays.

I suspect he has nothing better to do in the Old folks him home, now that he forgot where he put the checker pieces.

[GarbagemanLB]

2. We have Nader. The Reps have Bob Barr. I'd be more worried about Barr this election.

[bunnies]

3. Hopefully they'll cancel each other out.

Im thinking that right now... many of these people are just angry Clinton supporters.

[Zynx]

4. That will die out. My guess is that was disaffected Democrats.

That's a group that will diminish as the election grinds on.

[bunnies]

7. My thoughts too. I hope we're correct.

I cant take another election 2000.

[CreekDog]

93. Anyone supporting Nader now has not been a Democrat for a long, long time

to say the least.

even Matt Gonzalez, Nader's running mate was on the radio a while back and was saying that John McCain's global warming policy was better than Obama's and that Democrats in congress like Pelosi really support the war and blah blah blah.

the new message, Democrats and Republicans are the same, except Republicans are actually better sometimes. :eyes:

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

96. Can't understand why disgruntled Democrats would not vote for a Democrat

They should be disaffected because of the Bush administration's policies. Why take it out on the Democrats? Now I know that there are some Dems who are angry at the party for not getting us out of Iraq and for not impeaching Bush, but will Nader do these things? He doesn't have the party apparatus to bring about these changes, and he certainly doesn't have the organizations skills; he has to rely on the Repugs to help him.

Is there something we can do to support Barr? Or, even Ron Paul?

[RobertSeattle]

5. Bogus

It's just noise or people effectively saying "FU" to the pollster.

[kimmerspixelated]

8. The truth is-Nader is right in his assessments of

what's wrong with the US. And because of this-it's hard to just totally blow him off. I don't want him to run-he can't win- but people listen when he said that because the market has been manipulated, oil should only be around 50.00 a barrel. Folks listen to that and get enraged and want to hear more. Just saying-he has ammunition.

[GarbagemanLB]

10. I've ceased listening to him ever since the moron said there was no difference between W and Gore.

He had a respectable career before that, but that was one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

[Cha]

40. That's when I stopped, too..the "tweedle dee and tweedle dum"

comparison was stupid.

And, nader has since shown he could really give a fuck about America..it's all about him like it is with so many candidates.

[SoCalDem]

16. Nader has made a joke of himself by doing this every cycle.. he's the new Pat Paulsen

He should have tried to change things from within..There was a time when he should have actually run for congress, put in his time, and then run for higher office..

he's a bomb-thrower..and shame on the media for continuing
to feed his ego

he's very like Mccain.. he did a few good things decades ago, and he expected those things to carry him along forever.

[Hart2008]

51. I'm waiting for Obama to steal Nader's thunder, but will he do it?

All the O-man has to do is to make Nader's issues his own.

Will he do it?

The Dem's should own Nader's issues

[Barack_America]

9. Um, Obama's margin actually INCREASED factoring in Barr and Nader...

Even though Nader draws more support than Barr.

Looks like Nader and Barr both hurt McCain.

:rofl:

Funny numbers.

[bunnies]

15. I noticed that too.

I wish they'd given more details. I'm sitting here scratching my head.

[Barack_America]

24. It's probably the undecideds.

When you factor in Barr, some of McCain's support went to Barr and others became "undecided".

Whereas with Obama, most of Nader's support was probably from the original 5% undecided in the head-to-head, plus a point or two from Obama.

But I like to think that Nader drew support directly from McCain. It's more fun that way. ;)

[bunnies]

42. lol.

You're right. Its way more fun that way. :D

[galledgoblin]

19. the crazy disaffected-Clinton supporter I talked to on the bus last week

said he'd vote for either McCain or Nader, so yeah, I understand these numbers.

[SOS]

78. Very funny numbers

The article states: "Nader only took 1 percent of the vote in his last run for president in 2004."

Actually Nader got 0.38%
Did they fire all the fact checkers at CBS News?

And from 0.38% to 6%?
Makes no sense.

[Zavulon]

11. I guarantee you that fuckstick Barr will take more than that. (NT)

[genna]

12. It depends on what Nader says about there being a dime's worth of difference between D & R pols

[anonymous171]

14. Will his name get on many ballots this year?

[bunnies]

17. Good question. Myself, I dont have the answer. nt

[hendo]

84. Maybe on a few ballots

but I would bet his name will be absent in a lot of states.

[TechBear_Seattle]

18. How is that Nader's fault, exactly?

I would say it marks a failure of the Democratic Party to 6% of the potential voters.

[bunnies]

22. Dont be argumentative. I never used the word "fault"...

I'm pointing it out because we need those voters back. We're not in disagreement.

[TechBear_Seattle]

28. So you are using "fuckstick" in a non-judgemental way?

Your choice of language would indicate that you ARE casting blame.

[bunnies]

31. My DU experience is such that...

If one doesnt insult Nader one gets a ton of shit. I was merely being an appeaser.

[sandnsea]

36. Aw hell, I'll cast blame

He was a fuckwit in 2000 and a triple fuckwit that he can't see the disaster his distortions caused.

[TechBear_Seattle]

62. Why and how?

Or are you incapable of explaining your irrationality?

[sandnsea]

75. The last 8 years explained it

Bush is not and never was like Gore. I don't like Clinton's policies, but I'd never in a million years say they were just like McCain's or do anything to help get him elected. After the last 8 years, Nader still doesn't get the difference which makes him a fuckwit.

If you don't get that, maybe you're the irrational one.

[TechBear_Seattle]

27. dupe n/t

[sandnsea]

33. I would say it marks a failure of discernment in 6% of the voters

who can't see that nobody gets 100% of anything exactly their way.

[Danger Mouse]

49. Fuck Nader.

[TechBear_Seattle]

61. You fail to answer the question. How is his tiny popularity Nader's fault?

And as a follow-up: Why should the Democratic Party NOT be held responsible for failing to attract and keep these self-described progressives?

[Danger Mouse]

65. Because supporting Nader does NOTHING to support progressive causes.

And any REAL progressive, who should know better than most the damage that McCain could cause, would know better than to help him get elected by voting for a narcissist like Nader.

[ShortnFiery]

20. Nader Who? ... I'm not buying into this BUNK. em

[cbc5g]

21. If Nader hadn't run in 2000, thousands of our troops that died in Iraq may still be alive

Fuck him. There IS a difference between Dems and pukes. Thats the choice we have.

[anonymous171]

26. Anyone who thinks Al Gore and GWB are the same needs to be commited.

[frylock]

52. please tell me that you didn't just blame nader for the iraq war..

you may want to take a look at some of the enablers within your precious democratic party before you start pointing the finger of blame. let's start with bill clinton and his inaction in pursuing the iran/contra players. he may have prevented 911 if he had done his damn job instead of sucking republican dick.

[cbc5g]

54. Those Dems were cowards...but I highly doubt a President Gore would invade Iraq

[frylock]

55. on that we can agree

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

25. Amazing How Abolutely Braindead And Dumb Those 6% Are. I'm Surprised They Could Tie Their Own Shoes

[dana_b]

29. yeah, he's going after Obama

http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/06/04/gaza-obama-aipac/

It's a whole rebuttal to Obama's speech with AIPAC last week.

He's also trying really hard to get into the debates. Bleh. I'm for democracy, and I guess he shouldn't be denied if he has the support, but this year is so damn important and if he fucks this up for the country....:evilfrown:

[The_Casual_Observer]

30. Because there is no difference between Obama & McCain, according

to the greens.

[vinylsolution]

32. Nader has every right to run....

.... and if so-called Progressive candidates do not espouse true Progressive values, then Ralph Nader and Cynthia McKinney will rightly scoop up the votes of those who refuse to perpetuate the corrupt two-party axis that stifles all meaningful change.

More candidates, more parties = more choices, more democracy. Isn't that what we truly need?

[bunnies]

37. Of course he has the right to run.

But that doesnt mean that anyone should be happy about Democrats losing votes. Unless Obama winning isnt important to you. But it IS to me.

[last_texas_dem]

92. But in what is essentially a two-party system

those casting votes for a third party need to be mindful of the effects that their vote has. There are strategic reasons for voting for the "lesser of two evils" if voting for a third party candidate whose views are more in line with one's own enables a victory by the greater of two evils. And minus substantial reforms of the system, that's just the way that things work in the American system.

[4themind]

34. He may not even be on the ballot in many states

If the DNC /democratic secretary's of states. Now the actual ethics of such tactics can be debated,although its outside the scope of the OP I'd say, but as far as the effects of his candidacy I don't see it being too much more than 2004 (although some disaffected supporters of non-obama primary candidates may decide to give a protest vote. I have the feeling though that ultimately, they aren't going to repeat the same thinking that put Bush into power, if only for their own self-interest at the end of the day.

[Occam Bandage]

35. Goddamn motherfucking idiots.

[cliffordu]

39. What you said. Precisely.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

59. Exactly!

and today I saw several people on Tyler Durdan's thread say they were going to vote for Nader because they could never vote for Obama. yes, right here on the DU. They had been Hillary supporters and decided to vote for that asshat Nader who has done nothing but get older and disrupt the Democratic Party for years. Fuck him is right.

[GoldieAZ49]

88. hard to image that message of "hope, change and unity" doesn't attract them

I guess you are not the people they have been waiting for

:rpfl:

[Occam Bandage]

90. I'm a Democrat, not a motherfucking Care Bear.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

38. You're assuming he'll be on the ballot...

In 2000, which was the Green Party's high-water mark, they had a hell of a time getting Nader on the ballot, and IIRC, they didn't get on the ballot in all 50 states. I was in Ohio at the time, and it took a huge effort.

They don't have the following to make it happen.

[featherman]

41. NOW do you undertand why these polls are for entertainment purposes only?

Nader garnered 0.38% nationally last time out. This is undoubtably just "noise"

[PoliticalAmazon]

43. Bob Barr will take at least that much.. Look, it's their riight to run....

and, if we want to have any hope for a free America, that's part of the price we pay.

I can't see Nader taking many Dems. The Hillary supporters, IMO, will find him too liberal, and the GOP voters will find him WAY too liberal and scary.

[4_Legs_Good]

44. Not one vote will go to Nader that would otherwise have gone to Obama

Nader is the catch-all for dissatisfied voters. He may have been more once, but he is no longer. He won't be "syphoning off votes" from anyone. He'll be a repository for Republicans who refuse to vote for McCain but would never vote for a democrat, and Democrats who refuse to vote for Obama, but would never vote for a Republican.

There's nothing to see here...

Plus I guarantee you he'll end up pulling well under 2%. He peaked in 2000 (with my vote!) with 2.4%, I believe.

David

[Occam Bandage]

45. So you're saying that if Nader had dropped out, that so much as 1% of his vote wouldn't have

gone to Gore? If it had, Gore would have carried FL by 500 votes, even *after* the Bush attempts to steal.

Oh, and lol@Republicans voting for Nader.

[4_Legs_Good]

47. 2000 was very different from how 2008 will be, IMO

I voted Nader as I was sick of 2 party politics. After 4 or 8 years of Bush, I'll take 2 party politics in a nano-second over the specter of more Bush.

Nader destroyed any credibility he had by running in 2004. By not sitting that one out he essentially made himself completely irrelevant. Everyone knew in 2004 the stakes were too high, and the last 3 years have played that out.

2000 was a break period after 12 years of a Republican Administration followed by 8 years of a conservative Democratic administration (in some of our views), and we wanted something that was going to happen outside the box. Though I voted for Nader in 1996 and 2000, I live in a very safe state, and had I lived in a swing state I would have taken what I saw at the time as "the lesser of two evils".

Now I see no evil at all on our side. I love Obama, he's essentially my dream candidate for this moment in history. In retrospect, I love Gore too, but I love Gore 2004/2008 a helluvalot more than Gore 2000.

After Nader chose to run in 2004, I decided I would never, ever vote for him again. Had Hillary won the primary by playing dirty and completely capitalizing on the Wright controversy, I might have held my nose and voted for her, but I may also have cast a vote for another 3rd party, certainly never Nader, or any party's ticket he is running on.

Edit: On Republicans voting for Nader: A reason why his numbers are so high now, is because he is a polling repository for dissatisfied Republicans. Gallup calls them up and says, "Who would you vote for for President if the election was held today:

A. McCain
B. Obama
C. Nader

They're pissed at McCain, but will never vote Obama, so they choose Nader. I doubt any of them will actually vote for him, though, but the poll numbers will show his effect in this way.

David

[mrreowwr_kittty]

46. Pfffft. He'll be lucky to get .4% like he did last time.

He's probably not even on the ballot in some states.

[Danger Mouse]

48. Fuck you, Ralph Nader.

Fuck you, Ralph Nader. Fuck you, Ralph Nader.
Fuck you, Ralph Nader. Fuck you, Ralph Nader. Fuck you, Ralph Nader. Fuck you, Ralph Nader. Fuck you, Ralph Nader. Fuck you, Ralph Nader. Fuck you, Ralph Nader. Fuck you, Ralph Nader. Fuck you, Ralph Nader. Fuck you, Ralph Nader. Fuck you, Ralph Nader. Fuck you, Ralph Nader. Fuck you, Ralph Nader. Fuck you, Ralph Nader. Fuck you, Ralph Nader. Fuck you, Ralph Nader. Fuck you, Ralph Nader.F uck you, Ralph Nader.

[LucyParsons]

50. I would LOVE for Nader to get 6% - and Obama to win

That would really leave me chuffed.

[Yukari Yakumo]

53. Don't worry...

1) It's early. His numbers will go down to near 0 by November.

2) In '04, he got only 0.38% of the vote.

[GoldieAZ49]

56. Worry? Obama Nation doesn't worry, they HOPE

So what if Nader takes 6%

PEW Research, in Feb 08, show 25% of white dems wouldn't vote for Obama, that was before Wright went national

Now female voters are pissed and crossing over.

So who does that leave? Why worry about?

[uponit7771]

57. We'll see, Obama wasn't accused of having a black daughter like McSame was so the healing

...in this party isn't going to be as 'robust' as it was for reThugs.

Only freepers online are still bitter enough to vote for Nader come Nov Nader will still have his 1%....which still pisses me off.

[madrchsod]

60. 25% of white democratic women won`t vote for a black guy

oh that`s nice. i guess they think john calling his wife a cunt does`t bother them as much as barack being the democratic nominee

[GoldieAZ49]

85. It wasn't limited to women

if you are referring to the PEW research.

The women are not of any particular race, but from all of them.

[Danger Mouse]

66. You're running out of time.

:hi:

[GoldieAZ49]

86. I have all the time in the world

thank you

[Teaser]

69. June 11th.

.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GoldieAZ49]

87. taunting or threatening?

or are you just thick headed and thin skinned?

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

58. It would probably be twice that if Hillary had won.

[Donkey_Punch_Dubya]

63. If half of Nader voters voted Gore in 2000,

he would've won about 310 electoral votes and by 1.5 million in the popular vote. 98000 Floridians voted for Nader in an election Bush "won" by 500. As mentioned, just 1% of that vote changed to Gore would've given him Florida, and prevented the nightmare of the 2000s.

Blame Nader? Yep, I do. And Nader voters, who never should've voted for him in any swing state unless they wanted Bush to win the election.

Nader only hurts Democrats, who are much closer to his views than the party he helps. Remember all those Repubs helping him get on the ballot in 2004? That should tell you all you need to know about Ralph Nader.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

64. It was the "moderate" Dems that voted for Bush that got Florida.

[Lilith Velkor]

67. I love how "high information voters" know nothing about the Electoral College

:rofl:

[Teaser]

68. He's not getting 6%. Book it.

.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

70. and Bob Barr is taking 17%(or better) of McSame's

[Danger Mouse]

80. McCain is hopelessly screwed.

[zulchzulu]

72. You can count on this. Nader will get .3% of the vote in the fall

People are sick of him. Count on it.

[vaberella]

73. I used to be part of the Green Party. Don't worry about them, they usually take about that

percentage. One of the talking point of the GP in New York is to promote the 5%/6% mark because they can remain on the ballot each year. And that's their goal. To be on the presedential ballot every four years.

[Erin Elizabeth]

76. This has been mentioned, but it bears repeating:

Nader can only get votes in the states he's actually on the ballots in.

From his blog:

And then it becomes important that he gets on as many state ballots as possible.
We're working our hearts out to get him there.

By the end of June, we should be on ten or so. And we're aiming to be on more than 40 by the end of the summer. To help fuel this summer ballot access drive, you can give up to the legal limit of $4,600 each.
But we'll take whatever you can afford.



So he's only on less than ten state ballots right now. My money is on him not being on any more than 15 by the election. Not the crazy 40 they're talking about there.

Nothing to worry about.

[mdmc]

79. between barr / nader / mckinney I think they can get that 6%

Those aren't Obama's votes:shrug:

[DeepModem Mom]

81. 6% is frightening. Who the hell are these people? nt

[sweet baby jesus]

82. Who's Nader?

[vaberella]

89. Ralph Nader is the FOREVER Green Party leader. He is always on the ballot, at least in NYC for Pres

He's not someone I like because he doesn't talk about the issues. Oh, Green party is mainly focusing on alternative energy and such stuff. Beyond that, their social welfare programs are crud, that's if they have any now.

I think the only time he came close was in 2000 or maybe 1996, teh same year as Perot. He was a "surprise" popular vote that he had his own moment from Wolf Blitzer's mouth.

[Bluenorthwest]

99. Nader is not the Green candidate

Even they won't have him anymore. Nader is on his own. The Greens are running Cynthia McKinney.

[ToeBot]

83. As long as my vote doesn't count, I'll spend it where I wish.

Blame Nader for Florida if that is your want, but the fact remains, if every vote counted Gore would have won.

[McCamy Taylor]

91. CBS ran the story in order to raise $$$ for Nader, Polls mean squat now. Viacom kisses Bush FCC butt

because of their ownership problem. Rove probably told them to run the story. Nader needs to pretend that he is running then drop out at the last possible minute, otherwise Rove will use AT&T blackmail info to force someone else with an even higher name recognition to run.

Nader can run but he does not have to run very hard. He can do a sort of slow walk.

[BigDDem]

94. "I wish Molly Ivins were alive to see this....."

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

95. I deeply regret supporting this man in 2000. I live in MD and my

vote was a protest vote against Gore who I saw as weak and another member of the DLC. Gore has gotten more progressive since he's been out of politics, and I love him for that.

The main issue that has disappointed me about Nader is that he hasn't done any grassroots campaigning. For all his talk about working from the bottom up, he hasn't run any candidates for congressional offices. In other words, he hasn't built a party from the grassroots level. If he were sincere about his vision, then why doesn't he do anything in between elections? Again, he hasn't worked to build a party.

In addition, I would think that Nader would applaud Obama for doing what he (Nader) himself promised to do all these years--run an organization from the bottom up, not relying on lobbyists and PACs.

Shouldn't Nader embrace the fact that Obama won't be beholden to PAC money or lobbyists who will write our energy policies, our labor and fiscal policies, or our foreign policy?

I am baffled and quite disappointed that Nader is still trying to cause problems when this is the most critical point in our history. We cannot afford to have another Bush term. We simply can't.

[LTR]

97. That's what you get when you poll opium dens

No way in hell Nader has that much support.

He got a third of a percent in 2004. No reason to think he'd really do any better this time around.

Bob Barr, on the other hand, could do something if he can bring in the Ron Paul crowd.

[Freddie Stubbs]

100. Most polls in 2000 showed Nader getting more votes than he actually recieved

Perhaps potential Nader voters were too stoned to make it to the polls.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

101. It'll only go higher if Hillary is picked as VP. Only then will Ralph get my vote. Otherwise . . .

it's the Big-O all the way!