So if roles were reverse and HRC was the presumptive nominee would we be screaming RACISM?

[LynneSin]

I'm finding all this sexism stuff as bullshit because it could easily have been all of us screaming RACIST if Hillary won this tight battle and not Obama.

And for those clinging to the sexist comments are only dragging down this election and helping to enable a McCain win. Yes, there were sexist issues brought up during this primary but there were also racists ones too. Let's face it - if you're not a pasty white man running for president it's an uphill battle for everyone else!

[Cant trust em]

1. Is Geraldine still ranting on Fox?

If there's anyone that needs to be muzzled by the leadership, it's her.

[roguevalley]

68. no, we wouldn't. some of us know how to lose. we have a bit of

experience in elections.

[wyldwolf]

2. sure. Because the racism charges were smears to begin with instigated by a few..

...then latched onto by the masses as a campaign weapon. Unfortunately, we'll still hear from that few all campaign long claiming every disagreement with Obama by anyone is racially motivated.

[merh]

10. LOL and that is how some obama supporters view the screams

and cries of the hillary whiners, I think that is what the OP is trying to get you to open your eyes to - the primary was not pretty and both sides experienced discriminatory and hateful and hate filled attacks. If our candidates had only been two white guys, this crap would never have been a bone of contention.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

21. EXACTLY!!! But, you know, only Hillary Clinton ran a dignified campaign!

Obama brushed off his shoulders. Wow, he was sexist!! :sarcasm:

[dionysus]

22. 23 says; "Obama is Hillary with a Penis and a Tan"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1179286&mesg_id=1179539

[Alexander]

28. Wyldwolf? Making a racist statement? I am SHOCKED!

Actually, not really.

[TahitiNut]

29. The hypocrisy is appalling.

:shrug:

[Alexander]

31. Yeah, some of these nitwits think if they leave for a while we'll forget about them.

In reality, 5 seconds of using the Google is all it takes to remember one's posts here.

[Raineyb]

32. Are you saying that what Ferraro said wasn't racist?

Regards

[EFerrari]

38. "He's not a Muslim . . . that I know of." n/t

[genna]

41. *raises her eyebrows* smears raised by a few then latched on by masses

Are you saying that the latent racists were not thinking "no way he'll get it, he's black." Someone else came along and said, "Hey dude, he's black." Then the racist said, "Hey someone told me he's black, we can't have that."


What do you mean by this statement?

I don't want to misconstrue what this means.

[uberblonde]

3. Am I supposed to believe you wouldn't be one of those people?

I'm guessing yes.

[LynneSin]

9. Since I've cried neither and didn't really support either candidate until late

I'm guessing no.

But assume away, that's always a useful tool.....NOT!

[QueenOfCalifornia]

23. You rabidly

supported Hillary.

You made it clear long ago who you would vote for? When did you stop supporting her?

[LynneSin]

26. Um, I never supported Hillary and only began to support Obama around PA

Sure, perhaps a few years ago I was ok with the notion of her running but I never was on her campaign. I came out quite early for Joe Biden and went to John Edwards after Biden dropped out. After that I remained a free agent and a bit pissed at both candidates until Hillary did that interview with Richard Mellon Scaife. I then realized that Hillary only cared about Hillary to do an interview with such a creep.

BTW, you'll find I had done some posting in the Joe Biden forum, plus I'm from Delaware - of course I was going to support the hometown guy!

[Hutzpa]

4. Lynn the primary is over

revisiting 'what ifs' and 'so ons' is just a plain waste of our time,

I think its time for us to move on and win the GE, there is a lot at stake

for us to start dwelling on 'what ifs'


Please lets unite, time ot move on....K

[LynneSin]

6. well then why do I keep seeing threads about sexism

I'm just pointing out the obvious and btw, please spell my name right - it's Lynne

[Hutzpa]

39. If my spelling of your name

is the only thing you notice from my post then you have failed
yourself, all the same I would expect you to understand how
important this GE is than to point out an irrelevant flaw.

[EFerrari]

37. Then why are you wasting your time in this thread?

People don't live through 18 months of stuff and then just stop on a dime. It'll happen.

[Hutzpa]

43. I suppose this kind of discussion helps greatly

if your analysis of discussion sexism is the way to heal or unite
then YOU go right ahead and do that, but just remember that we have
to win this election....unless your sole purpose is to disrupt then
I apologise.... carry on.

[EFerrari]

45. We'll be okay. And everyone will get there in their own way.

If you see a thread title that ticks you off, don't go there. DU is a huge place.

[wowimthere]

5. No we wouldn't be calling it racism... Jackson and Sharpton ran and when they

didn't win no one screamed racism. This is manufactured by some, serious for others but the bottom line is this. She did what she wanted to do. She fought like she wanted to. Yes there was some sexism but it didn't ever tamp down expectations that she would come out victoriously. All the pundits said she would run the table on Obama and when she lied about Tuzla, the media called her on it.

[TahitiNut]

30. The media gave her a pass on the first three times she lied and THEN called her on it.

But that "nasty media" should have apparently continued to ignore the lie, even when she insulted Sinbad for making a joke about her lies. Same with the assassination analogy. Pass after pass and THEN call her on it. Then came the lame-brained whines. Yechh.

:puke:

[ShortnFiery]

7. No, because Obama didn't make the CENTRAL theme of his campaign to be "every MAN" ...

HRC used *GENDER* as a wedge issue falsely believing that this ONE DEMOGRAPHIC could rise above ethnicity, economic status, age and geography.

She even made up FAMILIAR signs "Hillary" instead of "Hillary Clinton" or "Senator Clinton" in an deluded attempt to appeal to *every woman.* :eyes:

Obama never PLAYED his RACE as something "above it all" yearning for equality ...

HRC USED *WOMEN* as a shield and a bludgeon ... and IMO, it was VILE and DIVISIVE.

[JVS]

8. If her PA, WV, KY, "White voters love me" act had carried enough supers to get her the nod, probably

and it would be fully justified.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

11. Again, I tried this yesterday and unfairly got blamed for flame-baiting

Tread lightly on this subject. Claims of sexism are justified. Claims of racism are dismissed as flame-bait.

[LynneSin]

14. I already got hit with it - what else is new

First, it's not the 11th so this post is very valid especially since I'm still seeing people talking about how Hillary was treated unfairly because *gasp* she's a woman. If the roles were reverse the same exact thing would have happened that we treated Obama unfairly because *gasp* he's black.

go figure!

[BlooInBloo]

15. Well duh. White folks are the ones judging....

It doesn't take a genius to guess which way THAT will go.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

20. Sadly, you're right. n/t

[genna]

44. Agreed. How many people have taken the time to go through how Obama's race has been used?

I think AA scholars will have a field day on how race has been used against Obama during this campaign. The mere fact that Gloria Steinam and other feminists can come out and OPENLY SUPPORT Clinton is a revelation.

Who has done work on racism in this country can be seen as being on Obama's side without him having to reject and denounce every charge they have made about conformity of thought in America on race?

I think the fact that the double standard on race isn't even UNDERSTOOD much less explored, is in and of itself a biproduct of denial when it comes to race.

The mere fact that Obama must TRANSCEND RACE as opposed to embrace his heritage is a point that Clinton and her gender analysis doesn't have to worry as much about the inequality. I think gender discrimination (is she tough enough?) is a b.s. way of judging presidential character.

Look at Bush. Where did his toughness take America? How presidential is that?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

12. Yes...

Because both sides defined their "-ism" in terms of your lack of support for their candidate. You're a racist if you don't support Obama and you're a sexist if you don't support Hillary.

Now let me put down that broad brush for a moment and say that certainly not all (or even a majority of) the supporters for either candidate were that way. It was a small but loud cadre on both sides that kept this up -- and are still keeping it up to this day.

I hope that when GD-P goes away, the Mods will have to good sense to stop the "-ism" threads on both sides of the discussion.

[genna]

48. Do -isms exist or did we just imagine it? n/t: Denial: It isn't just a River in Egypt

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

50. It's both...

When somebody denies you a job simply because you're a woman or a minority, then it's definitely an -ism. But when you're denied a job because another individual was better qualified than you are, they your -ism is entirely imaginary.

[hfojvt]

13. you don't remember West Virginia and Kentucky?

Dog whistles and Gerry Ferraro? The ubuquitous 'we' have already been screaming racism.

To me the worst part of this whole 'sexism' charge is that Obama and Dean are apparently guilty because they are male and because of sins of omission - neither of them campaigned hard enough for Hillary.

[Cant trust em]

16. Sexism has been made against Clinton and Obama is against Clinton, ergo...

[cbayer]

17. When we look back on this,

I think we will see that racism and sexism both played roles in the primaries and will play roles in the GE. The silver lining to this is that some ugly things that have been in the shadows for too long have been brought out into the light.

But for now, I am going with Clinton on this one:

"Every moment wasted looking back keeps us from moving forward."

[jillan]

18. Yes Lynne, I have been called a racist many, many times because I supported Hillary.

One Hillary supporter that is also an African American was told by a fellow DUer that she wasn't black enough or else she would be supporting Obama.

The RACISM label has been used to death around here and in the msm.

[LynneSin]

19. I think both were used in the wrong way and I find it offensive

I'm a woman and I know when I'm dealing with sexism but I wouldn't think of using that as a tool. I would hope it's the same thing with racism.

I find irony about that racist comment because technically Obama is only half black since his mother was a white woman. I wonder if that DUer thinks that Obama isn't black enough?

[genna]

51. So the critique is you are not black enough if one black person chooses to support the nonBlack

So by using this example...

it supports the charge that the racism charge went too far.

Are you saying even if racist sentiment existed in some of these posts there is no way that every person who decided to support HRC should be tagged racists?

OR


Are you saying some racist sentiment existed in some of these posts but it is impractical and wrong headed to see a racist in every person who decided to support HRC?


I'd say the racists didn't bother me as much as the HRC supporters who denied racist sentiments were being expressed. I could see the sexism in the media and be appalled. I didn't hear too many Clinton supporters who could hear or see the racism in the media or in the campaign. I found that appalling.

[SoCalDem]

24. We would be pissed because it would mean that super delegates had negated the voters' choice

I would be screaming...cronyism :)

[JVS]

25. If you dig a bit you can find Clinton supporters claiming a "race-card"

Sexism hurts hillary, and so does any notice of racism too, evidently.

[StevieM]

27. You already did. (eom)

[MonkeyFunk]

33. umm

you guys DID scream racism. "fairy tale" is racist? :rofl:

[EFerrari]

34. Imho, there's every reason to be mad about the sexism except

to blame Obama or his campaign.

They didn't go there.

:shrug:

[ruggerson]

59. I agree with that

"you're likable enough" was just a snarky comment, it was not sexist. And Hillary made plenty of snarky comments herself.

But the media is another story entirely.

[hokies4ever]

35. Obama would have been vilified if he did such a thing as extensively as Hillary has

[PatGund]

53. He didn't.....

But he's getting accused of such and villified anyway

[Cha]

36. No, because Obama supporters

aren't into red herrings..you can bet Obama wouldn't be whining about it.

Obama had the better campaign.

[Dhalgren]

67. At the end of the day, you are dead right.

"Obama had the better campaign." That is the Clinton "problem" in a nutshell. Why did Clinton lose? She lost because Obama had a better campaign, connected with more voters in a better way, and managed his message way,way better than Clinton did. But it is easier to blame external, amorphous causes than to be too self-critical.

I supported neither Clinton nor Obama, but it is time now to stop focusing on some Senator from New York and start focusing on your nominee...

[Maven]

40. Absolutely they would.

[asdjrocky]

42. Some people would.

There all always those that want to look for something beyond the basic facts.

[Carrieyazel]

46. A large number would be saying that race would be the primary reason

if Barack narrowly lost the nom

[AtomicKitten]

47. The Clintons exploited the "isms" as a political tool.

Barack has made it his business to run as an American, not a black American. The Clintons elected to make it their business to make him black "enough," and that bit of gristle is what's left on our plate as we move forward as a party.

The wingnuts were pleased to have the Clintons run that kind of campaign against Obama (Operation Chaos), but the good news is that it didn't work for the Clintons and it won't work for the GOP.

Hillary had every advantage at the beginning of the process, and she herself pissed it away. Sexism had nothing to do with it.

K&R

[genna]

52. Barack Obama knows racial discussions are DOA. Had he used it at all, his campaign would have been

DOA.

Refer to #44. It is what it is.

[AtomicKitten]

54. And Obama's mixed heritage makes it all even more fascinating.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

49. So Many Here Would. That's A No Brainer.

[styersc]

55. Youve been screaming racism for 6 months.

[LynneSin]

58. I have? Where the hell was I when I did that

I supported a pasty old white man in the primaries but then again I'm from Delaware and had to support the home boy Biden!

[GoldieAZ49]

56. ask yourself if Obama had won the most votes and the SD's had given it to Hillary

what would you be screaming?

Pretty shoes when they are on the other foot, eh?

[LynneSin]

57. Oh, you believe we only have 35 states huh?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/donald-sutherland/hillarys-popular-vote-not_b_104152.html

That popular vote theory only works because 15 states have Caucuses and she doesn't include those.

I think that's sad you still buy into that debunked story.

And the last time I checked - the popular vote never counted for primary elections. Perhaps Hillary should have paid more attentions to the Caucuses.

[GoldieAZ49]

61. Well I don't believe we have 57 states, Obama however does

Caucuses are not individual voters.

BTW, there are only 50 states.

The popular vote didn't count in the 2000 presidential election either. You didn't decry that Gore won, did you?

[LynneSin]

64. Caucus represent voters

So in a nut shell to 'claim' that Hillary has the popular vote you have to eliminate the 15 caucus states.

Oh and Hillary is the one that made a big deal about the territories.

And finally, that's bullshit about 2000. I never bitched because Gore had the popular vote and loss even I'm not that stupid. I bitched BECAUSE BUSH STOLE THE FUCKING ELECTION IN FLORIDA.

Geeez, how silly do you think we are?

Hillary did NOT win the popular vote since she refuses to count the caucus states, she includes a state she vowed not to run in (and which Obama along with all the other candidates pulled their names from the ballots. How do you think Michigan Obama supporters feel about that) AND she counts in her wins from the territories.

[jgraz]

60. What if Obama lied about a mythical "popular vote" and had to be dragged out of the race

What would you have to say about him then?

[GoldieAZ49]

62. There isn't anything "mythical" about 18 million voters

you may realize that in November.

[jgraz]

63. Then prove that Hillary ever had 18 million supporters

I'd bet you can't even show that she received 18 million votes. But she NEVER had 18 million supporters all at once, and she certainly does NOT have 18 million supporters right now.

I won't embarrass you by asking you to show how 18 million Democrats will sit out this election in November.

[LynneSin]

65. Give it up - that poster believes tha caucus states don't count

And that it's ok to count Michigan, a state where all the democratic candidates vowed not to put their name on the ballot but Hillary then broke her promise.

Oh and we were upset in 2000 simply because Gore had the popular vote and lost. All that mess in Florida with the recount, well that didn't bother us at all and had absolutely nothing to do with the Supreme Court decision

:sarcasm:

The 11th can't come any sooner to DU but I'm so sick and tired of this "Hillary Won the Popular Vote" bullshit. She didn't. She can only win it by ignoring the caucus decisions - states she didn't bother to campaign in and lost to Obama. Perhaps if she bothered with winning just 1-2 of those states she'd be the nominee.

[GoldieAZ49]

69. you will be surprised with the info that comes out

http://www.caucusconfession.blogspot.com/

[MNDemNY]

66. Yes.