Did anyone else hear Joan Walsh of Salon on Hardball today?

[genna]

She characterized HRC's behavior as well within the mainstream of the DNC history. She said it all was "perfectly appropriate."


Why is Hillary world so far removed from the political norm?

What created this separation?

[madaboutharry]

1. Joan Walsh has really had a problem

with objectivity when it has come to Hillary's campaign.

[mod mom]

4. that's an understatement!

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeyondGeography]

2. She and David Corn went at it pretty good

Advantage to David on that exchange.

[Andy823]

3. Did you hear

Pat Buchanan going after Hillary's supporters? He sounded just like McCain last night! Last night he was also pushing Hillary as the VP! She has more support from the republicans today, than from some of her major supporters who are saying they don't know what she is doing.

[eleny]

13. They want her on the ticket so badly

They'll take her as VP so they can go after her with all they had planned.

[newmajority]

18. Nah, they want her on the ticket because the whore media and the DLC serve the same interests.

They are desperate to keep one of their own on the ticket.

[genna]

15. Pat Buchanan said women have been stopping him in the airport thanking him for supporting Hillary

and standing up for her side of the argument. (On Morning Joe a few weeks ago)

He has been having a large laugh about it throughout this primary because he doesn't believe in women's causes or other issues on the left.


The RW has decided to believe these women who say I'LL VOTE FOR MCCAIN. They are willing to pander and tell these HRC people, hey just trust Pappy McCain, he has what you need.

[hokies4ever]

28. Pat Buchanan has been in the tank for Hillary all along

He's even admitted to it on Morning Joe. He obviously hates Obama (surprise) and is pissed that he's going to become the next President.

[ErinBerin84]

6. yeah, that was annoying

Yet, completely predictable coming from Joan Walsh. I also can't stand when anyone interrupts another panelist before that panelist has made their case. Joan went first and went on and on without interruption, and then as soon as the guy from Mother Jones started talking, she started cutting in with her indignation. I can't believe I'm saying this...but thank god Hillary Rosen was on, to at least present the view of one Hillary supporter who doesn't want to be boxed into the stereotype of "Hillary's army".

Did you see Clinton supporter Lisa Caputo on earlier (with Hillary Rosen and Michelle Bernard)? Chris asked why Hillary sent out a letter today asking what she should do, with the only option on the letter being to continue (I don't really know what they're talking about, hadn't heard that one). Lisa said "That was NOT the only option on the letter". Chris asked what the other one was and she said "It was....to contribute money." I laughed at that one.

[genna]

20. Lisa Caputo's ability to say what she said with a straight face was enough to make me gag.

How is it possible to look in the camera and lie like that? When Matthews pressed her, she still didn't seem like she was willing to state the obvious.

Also, didn't it remind you of KO's last segment on Monday about what HRC's staff is going to place on their resumes when they go back on the market.

It is painful.

[genna]

26. Lisa Caputo on Dan Abrams' show talking about it is UNFAIR

When Dan says, hey your argument is not with me and defended himself, she still wants to press an argument about Bill Bradley and Jesse Jackson.

Lisa says her approach was "completely appropriate."


What is going on in Hillary verse?

[shaniqua6392]

7. It is all perfectly appropriate.

Why the hell are people pissed at her for not conceding last night? She is thinking of her supporters and did not want to crush them with talk of defeat last night. She will come out in a day or so and give a rousing speech endorsing Obama and uniting the party. I don't understand why people are not more happy for Obama and quit worrying about what she does or does not do. Enjoy the moment. It is like they are so used to beating up on her that they can not stop. Besides that it is not typical for someone to concede after the primary. They suspend their campaign and they can wait to endorse. Isn't that what Edwards did?

[LaurenG]

8. Carville said the same thing. These people are trying to re-write

history.

[TexasObserver]

9. Joan Walsh is one of the more painful Hill Shills in media.

She simply cannot believe her girl has lost.

[genna]

19. But what happened to her objectivity? She used to be able to see both sides of something.

I was listened to her after HRC's RFK comment and she was threatening the DNC if they didn't put a stop to it.

I think you can support your candidate without falling out about it.


I respected her judgement and her reporting. I have gone to her blog and just been horrified. When our positions are reversed and someone asked me about the worst parts of BHO, I CAN CONCEDE THE POINT.

I find myself hurt by this when it comes from her. Jake Tapper has disappointed me this season, but I think he has been fairly consistent in his honesty of the facts. I don't think it makes sense to lose objectivity just because you want the goal so bad.

[dsc]

10. Reading these quaint things called history books

In 1980, a man named Kennedy was literally hundreds of delegates behind when the last primary was over. Did he withdraw the night of the last primary, no? What about the next day, nope, not then either? He didn't even conceed until after he lost his attempt to get delegates who had pledged to Carter to switch.

In 1984, a man named Hart was hundreds of delegates behind when the last primary was over. Did he conceed on the night of the last primary, no? The next day, nope not then either? He also tried, up to the very day of the convention, to get superdelegates to choose him (using almost the exact same arguments about electability as Hillary)

In 1992, a man named Brown also was not just hundreds but (I am not exaggerating) thousands of delegates behind after the last primary was over (his very own home state, which he lost). And, well, I let today's DailyHowler do the talking.

www.dailyhowler.com

BERKE (6/2/92): This is the state where Edmund G. Brown Jr. should make his last stand. After all, he was Governor for two terms. And polls show he is creeping close to Gov. Bill Clinton in the last big Presidential primary Tuesday.

So why not be graceful and give it up after Tuesday? Not Jerry Brown.
"It's a very eerie feeling here," Mr. Brown said. He was referring not to the roller skaters, body builders and smattering of oddly dressed street performers who surrounded him on Venice Beach, but to the peculiar state of the Presidential campaign. "There's a certain unreality about the Clinton ascendancy. And certainly Perot is going to be part of that."

Mr. Brown still wants to be part of the action, too.

He is impatient with questions about polls in California that show his support among voters within single digits of the Arkansas Governor. "Look, I don't use Tarot cards," he said. "I don't use polls. So don't ask me what's going to happen tomorrow."

The fact is, Mr. Brown is already plotting his moves beyond Tuesday.

Everyone knows it is too late for him to win enough delegates to capture the nomination. Maybe it is because he has no job to go back to, maybe because he likes the spotlight, maybe because he is convinced of the gravity of his cause, Mr. Brown still wants to be a force to be reckoned with.

Despite pleas from Democratic leaders, Mr. Brown persists in criticizing Mr. Clinton, whom he portrays as a tool of a ruling class of insiders. "We're up against the decrepit inertia of elite momentum," he said in an interview here Sunday, throwing in a favorite line that Mr. Clinton's backers "want to get a ticket on the Titanic."

And he put his party on notice that he intends to carry his politics-is-corrupt, Clinton-is-unelectable message to the Democratic National Convention in New York in July, and beyond.

end of quote

I realize those quaint things called books are getting rarer and rarer, but opening them every once in awhile does help us understand things.

[DJ13]

12. And what does your history book tell you was the outcome in the GE?

[eleny]

17. Touche

:thumbsup:

[dsc]

23. We won in 1992

and lost two (does anyone seriously think we could have possibly won in 84?). That makes an even split of winnable ones.

[Arkansas Granny]

16. Thank you for adding a little perspective to this discussion.

[spanone]

11. said hillary wouldn't concede today because it's her mothers birthday

joan is delusional

[genna]

22. Joan said she agreed with Pat Buchanan 100%!

She also said Obama needs to reign in his sore winning supporters.

It sounds like Obama should stand idly by while he is railroaded into accepting any behavior HRC deems worthy of him.

This is a democracy and the people have ALREADY SPOKEN BY CHOOSING OBAMA.

[spanone]

14. more astonishing was hillary rosen dumping the other hillary.her check must have bounced

[damntexdem]

21. Well, maybe if one goes back to the copperheads at the time of the Civil War.

And then there were the Dixiecrats.

Sure, it's within the norm, if we want to go back to the bad old days.

[Major Hogwash]

24. Joan is still in denial mode.

She can't figure out why she is so stupid.

[City Lights]

25. She got sucked into that alternate reality Camp Clinton lives in.

:scared:

Such a shame, too. I always liked and respected Joan, but she was downright rude to Corn today. He was polite and let her make her points without butting in, but she kept interrupting him when he was trying to speak.

[genna]

27. I didn't want to do a new thread, but Joan Walsh sort of explained her hurt on Morning Joe today

Paraphrasing: Joe Scarsborough said something like all these years I thought there was a liberal bias in the media, but now I know it is more than that. The way they went after Hillary Clinton makes me know they want a certain kind of candidate.

Joan Walsh looks consigned to her fate. She said I was a Clinton defender not a promoter. They (the media) demonized her.


She had a much more objective point of view in terms of dealing with the pros and cons. Prior to now, I have always viewed her this way.

She didn't let Joe say we are all in the same camp.


But she was defending this unreal thing Clinton supporters have been pushing...we need the WHOLE Democratic party not a piece of the Democratic party. She said it is a question of audience.

Maybe some white women on the Clinton side really do view this as a clash of the titans: African Americans v. Progressive White Women. I don't believe that it is us versus them. I am a progressive black woman and think that would be a crazy divide to create or to try to further. What would be the interests most important to each side that would be in conflict?


I still want someone to explain to me how this division was created or emphasized leading to this much turmoil. Listening to some of these commentators, it felt like they were saying BHO supporters were going to terrorize the community and burn the neighborhood down. What was the basis for this?

It may be a discussion for Donna Brazille and Joan Walsh but the anger and rage directed at people of color has been an education unto itself.