Everyone who criticizes Hillary Clinton is not a "hater"

[undeterred]

I've gotten an earful this morning and I don't post in here that much. My last post in here was a poll: What animal does George Stephanopolous remind you of? There was not complete agreement on which animal (although weasel got the most votes) but everyone was down on Georgie. Hardly a divisive post.

In this forum everything is terribly subjective. One post makes you part of a group of "Hillary haters". People misunderstand the intent of a post and they throw you into a camp.

In GDP everyone has their guns drawn all the time.

The truth is I am like many, many other people who started out supporting DK or JE, and didn't know which way to turn after Edwards dropped out.

John Nichols and most of the well respected Democrats in Madison, where I live, turned from supporting John Edwards to supporting Barack Obama. Nichols believed that Obama has better political instincts and is more likely to get us out of Iraq. His opinion goes a long way with me.

Most people in that group (former JE and DK supporters) were attracted to both candidates, but ultimately REPELLED by Hillary Clinton's behavior. To some degree we were attracted to Barack (although the cult thing is exaggerated) but most people who support Obama are not mindless cult members. When the primary was held in WI I could have gone to see the candidates in person, but instead I listened on the radio because I thought it would be more objective. I knew Obama had a fancy schmancy presentation and I did not want to be sucked in by it.

Ultimately EVERYONE I've talked to who was in this position has been repelled by Hillary's tactics and behavior. And we are impressed with the way Barack Obama has handled himself- his honesty, his grace under pressure, his lack of meanness in what can be a very trying circumstance.

Hillary destroyed her own chances. She has no one to blame but herself for destroying her opportunity to be president. She had a chance to pick up a lot of people who supported other candidates- and she was unable to do it.

So stop blaming people on this messageboard for Hillary's downfall. She brought herself down and she worked pretty damn hard at it.

[redqueen]

1. "repelled by Hillary's tactics and behavior"

Yeah... but we all love Obama cause we're mindless automatons who have been hypnotized and now only drink kool ade. :eyes:

[undeterred]

9. I don't put anyone at DU in that camp

If people are reading the whole DU messageboard, they're getting a lot of info on the candidates, both good and bad. But lets face it- there are a lot of people out there who don't know that much about the candidates and they make a decision on a superficial basis.

Obama is very appealing and does a great presentation. Some people think he is all fluff and no substance. I think he's got the substance to be a great president.

[Andy823]

32. I agree with you.

I don't attack the people who support a certain candidate, but I feel the candidate if fair game if they have said something that is not correct, or have views that I disagree with, but I don't call their supports names.

I wanted to see John Edwards win the nomination, but that did not happen. He dropped out and I had a hard time supporting anyone else. Finally after watching the debates between Obama and Clinton, and after reading their sites as well as anything else I could, I found that Obama was not as bad as I once thought back when my candidate was still in the race. I felt he best supported the ideas that Edwards had brought to the front, and I felt that he was the better candidate to take on the things that were important to me. Like you I once thought he was all fluff an no substance, but too the advice of some of his supporters here and really gave him a chance, and I found out I liked what he was saying.

I feel very strongly that once those who voted for Hillary get to know him, really give him a chance, they will also come to see that he is really sincere about change, and though it will be tough to get this country out of the rut Bush got us into, he can do it with the help of the people of his country. I don't "LOVE" him, and I don't idolize him. I just feel he is the best chance we have right now to turn this country around, and give it back to the people. If I am wrong, I will be the first to admit it.

[Caution]

2. Exactly. I think she should have conceded in mid-February when this race was over

but I don't hate the Senator and I would have happily voted for her had she won. I think she was a good candidate up until it became clear that she had lost (in mid-February) and she started to damage our candidate.

She's a good Senator and I hope that she continues to be a good Senator.

[Fox Mulder]

3. Agreed.

[Saturday]

4. Another bashing Hillary thread?

Why don't you people get on with the work you have to do....getting BO elected. Why is it that you must dwell on Hillary and point out yet once again how terrible she is? Get over it and quit obsessing on Hillary. There's work to be done.

[undeterred]

10. Have you joined the Obama campaign yet?

If you actually read past the subject line you would understand what I said.

[JuniperLea]

28. I've joined and I've read... my response is the same as above...

We can't unite until the bashing stops.

Hillary's continued campaigning didn't do jack to hurt Obama, obviously. It's time to take Obama's lead, to show him we believe in him and agree with him. He's moved on. We should too.

There is really no need at all for any further mention of Hillary, unless she is placed on Obama's ticket. This would be the respectful thing to do. It wouldn't pay to represent Obama by being disrespectful of Hillary or her supporters.

[FatDave]

40. "We can't unite until the bashing stops."

While that is true, the best thing that could happen for the sake of unity is that Hillary could concede, endorse Obama, and ask her remaining supporters to support him. And until Hillary does that, I reserve the right to continue to call for her to do so and to question why she hasn't. I don't think that's too out of line, do you?

[JuniperLea]

42. Yes, totally out of line

And a waste of energy. Obama has moved on and so should we. It's the right thing to do. The only person she is hurting at this point is herself. We need to take the high road she refuses to see... that's what Obama is doing. Following his lead is the right thing to do... it's the most sincere form of appreciation for him... it shows we can rise above.

We can start the healing, and get the uniting going without her help. She can only dictate our actions and reactions if we let her. Obama isn't. We should show him the respect he deserves by following his lead.

[FatDave]

44. You're probably right, but don't you agree...

...that the unity ball is pretty much in Clinton's court? There is not a thing Obama can do to win over her remaining all-or-nothing supporters without her asking them to support Obama. Sure, we can move on and pretend like she's not even there (which she can choose to take as an insult), but it would sure be nice if she was willing to admit defeat, come on board, and bring her supporters with her.

[JuniperLea]

46. Nope... I think it's more in ours than in hers...

Moving forward and letting her do what she wants to do is best. She may see it as an insult, I see it as respect for her. We should no longer be willing to watch her train wreck. Her supporters will be more likely to come on board when she concedes, but only if there is a pleasant place to go. Going where their candidate is STILL being criticized at every turn is not the kind of place anyone would want to be.

[movonne]

16. The problem is she is making the work twice as hard...and the

longer she keeps up her pettiness the worse it will get..

[JuniperLea]

30. Oh bull...

Obama has moved on. So should we. She's not holding a gun to anyone's head... we are all responsible for our own actions... and REACTIONS.

[Terran]

33. "the work YOU have to do"

(emphasis mine)

I take it from that statement that you have no intention of doing anything to help the Democratic nominee get elected. Do you even plan to vote for him?

[undeterred]

We're having a discussion here.

Feel free to join in, and feel free to read before posting.

[undeterred]

48. We're having a discussion here.

Feel free to join in, and feel free to read before posting.

[Enrique]

5. of course not

but a lot of them are. For example, the people that posted "I hate her," and the people that voted those posts to the top of the greatest page.

[crankychatter]

6. I've had to reactivate ignore

I think these aren't Clinton supporters for the most part

once we have a VP, it will lessen, but this place has been infested for a long time, obviously

but they're old timers and they know how to game the board

I expect some of them will be in and out of ignore until inauguration day and beyond

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. DK supporter here

who has watched in fascinated horror over the horrible sniping here at DU in the GD Primary forum. I personally don't like Clinton for personal reasons having to do with the way my friends and I have been treated by the Clinton--but I pledged that I would vote for her if she became the nominee. But I must say that she has behaved publicly in a manner that would drive away people who were on the fence, I think. I'm not entirely sold on Obama--he's too far to the right, especially on health care--but his style and clear plans and especially the way he's not allowed the GOP to get by with attacking him have been very impressive. I will be glad to vote for him in November for these reasons.

[undeterred]

12. I love Dennis Kucinich

and there is no one in the whole Congress I respect as much as him. Sigh...

[AtomicKitten]

8. K&R

Very well said.

[StevieM]

11. I consider the notion that there was anything wrong with her tactics or behavior to be a joke

I am so proud of Hillary Clinton. I love her now more then ever. And I have never had less respect for Barack Obama. He is going to have to work to earn my vote.

A little humility would be a good start--I'd like to know that whoever I vote for is at least a nice person.

It would also be good if he would talk more about the mortgage crisis and what he will actually do about it.

Steve

[undeterred]

13. Well you are in the minority regarding her tactics-

many people are offended.

I think Obama is amazingly gracious and humble. He does need to get more depth on some issues, as you suggested.

[StevieM]

20. The DU (or the internet blogs, for that matter) do not represent the American people.

And if I say that I'd like to see a mortgage plan, then that kind means that he does need to show more depth. Or you could tell me all about it--either one. But the voter gets their way and the candidate must win over their vote.

Steve

[dionysus]

29. so you say "real people" support her dishonest, lying and cheating tactics? what america do you

live in?

[StevieM]

21. Sorry, dupe post. Deleted (eom)

[dionysus]

14. wow, and you call us cultists. yeah she ran a REALL respectable campaign...NOT

why do you disrespect barack? what has he done to you other than defeat your hero?

:shrug:

[StevieM]

17. He hasn't defeated her, the way the rules were set up benefited him and then the party bosses

picked him in a shady back room deal.

Steve

[dionysus]

19. shady back room deal my fucking ass.

SHE
LOST

she ran a despicable RW style campaign
she couldn't manage her way out of a wet paper bag
she tried tacit racism when she knew she was going to lose
she has praised the republican candidate.

if you're proud oft hat you really need to look at yourself in the mirror and try to think a little.

[StevieM]

22. But you're lying, remember? (eom)

[dionysus]

23. nope. you're delusional. pray for a scandal or assassination all you want. the only time she will

ever set foot in the white house is as a vistor.

[StevieM]

25. You think President McCain will invite her? (eom)

[dionysus]

27. with a statement like that, you won't be here for long. go to hillaryis44 where you will be welcome

[grace0418]

26. The millions of people who voted for him and sent in small contributions were not

part of any shady back room deal.

[movonne]

24. What the fuck do you expect him to do...he has been very gracious

to her and she just kicks him in the butt...would he have to get down on his knees and plead with her, will that do it for you???

[Kool Kitty]

41. How is he not a nice person?

Is Hillary a nice person? How would you know?

[seaglass]

15. Your post was antagonistic and you were called out on it by your fellow

Obama supporters. Deal with it.

[guruoo]

18. Yadda yadda yadda ... Obama sez: Hillary's done. Time to move on.

[JuniperLea]

34. Exactly!

This is no way to show support for Obama... following his lead would most certainly be the best way.

[guruoo]

37. Then kick this.....

"We have an election to win and it isn't against Hillary Clinton."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6272591

[kerry-is-my-prez]

31. There's a difference between criticism and complete hatred.

There is a big difference. There are people who fall into either camp here.

[JuniperLea]

35. I agree... but I believe it's time for BOTH to end.

Nothing good can come from either criticizing or hating. It's time for us to show real respect for Obama, by following his lead.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

39. It's hard to show respect for someone when you are constantly being shit on.

Doesn't make someone want to do it.

[JuniperLea]

43. We are the masters of our own ships...

No one can make you do anything. Take control, fcol. Obama has moved on to the real fight. Continuing in a fight he has already claimed victory on is disrespectful to him. Either you believe him, and in him, or you don't.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

47. It's a vicous circle. "I'm not respecting you because you're not respecting me."

The person who needs something from the other is normally the one to reach out.

[depakid]

36. I think reasonable people know what the hate posts look like on both sides

Hillary's drawn the brunt of them- if for no other reason that there are more Obama supporters on the site (and probably, much younger and brasher).

[On the Road]

38. Three Months Ago

I didn't have a strong preference between the two candidates. And I try to avoid the piling on threads that are all over the place.

But the way that she has been "fighting" for the nomination has really turned me off. Maybe because I just hate intellectual dishonesty too much. The qualities that she has exhibited are not those I would want in a president.

[DefenseLawyer]

45. Don't hate the playa, hate her games n/t