Dems need to keep their options open

[OzarkDem]

I posted this in response to another topic, but it deserves its own thread. I'm offering this argument for Clinton, not because I supported her - I would make the same argument regardless of who is the remaining alternate Dem candidate.
...

However the party chooses to make the process work, Dems need to have a "fallback" candidate. Never underestimate the GOP and their ability to destroy the Dem nominee.

The GOP has stayed out in the weeds, remaining silent during the primary except to say, as Mitch McConnell put it "the criticism of the Democratic nominee will be severe, very severe". They're obviously waiting to go "nuclear" on our candidate until its too late to change.

You know they're going to fight like crazy to keep control of the WH and will stop at nothing to get it done, regardless of what their base of supporters think of McCain. Personally, I think it will be one of the worst campaigns we've seen, making Kerry "swiftboating" and stolen votes look like a tea party.

And I don't need to remind you that the news media has the ability to transform any candidate from a frog into a prince overnight (McCain). The corporate bundled money that was pouring into coffers by the billions can be diverted to another campaign overnight. We've already seen it happen in the primary.

Many of our Dem leaders are guilty again of overconfidence and hubris, leading to complacency and bad judgement. Some are just cynical, focused only on raising money for their re-election and unconcerned if Dems lose the presidential race. Others may even think they have already cut a deal with the news media and corporate funders to keep them at bay. But there seem to be a few Dem leaders who are keeping their skepticism and watching the campaign with a wary eye, as they need to be.

Be realistic. We know the GOP, news media and corporate America (energy, banking, health insurance, defense contractors) are NOT going to trust a Democratic president regardless of who it is and they're NOT going to give anyone a free pass. Going into the GE with even the strongest candidate may not be enough.

The Democratic Party (and that means all of us) need to keep our options open and be prepared for ANY scenario. Because winning the White House is more important than any candidate.

[BlooInBloo]

1. tick tick tick tick

[WeDidIt]

2. Just a few more days.

And if she only would have been gracious in defeat instead of conducting herself like a four year old brat who didn't get her lollipop, we wouldn't have to put up with this shit.

[blackboard]

3. NO

She lost and get over it. The only thing that could hurt obama is so called democrats who say Obama can't win but they will either vote for Mccain or Hillary. Obama backup plan is Obama

[FSogol]

4. Unkick and Unrecommended. n/t

[peacebird]

5. No. Democrats do not need a "fall back position". We have a presumptive nominee.

HRC needs to stop, concede, and go back to the Senate.

She is doing nothing POSITIVE for the party right now, she is only undermining our nominee. Tell me honestly - would you be calling for a "fallback" person if HRC had swept the nomination?

[babylonsister]

6. Here's some of your own advice: be realistic. nt

[reflection]

7. Good idea.

If Barack is destroyed by the VRWC, I will be stumping for Biden posthaste.

[anonymous171]

8. Dems need to fight and not take the media's bullshit.

That's really the only thing we need to do.

[TechBear_Seattle]

9. A nominee has won, and there is ends

If Clinton has not found any dirt under Obama's bed or skeletons in his closet by now, there is very little chance that she will be able to do so between now and National. At this point, the only reason the party might need to "keep its options open" would be if an (extremely conventient for Clinton) assassin managed to put the presumptive nominee out of action.

Or is that your theory?

[bowens43]

10. she needs to concede

step back, sit down and STFU.

We have a candidate, we don't need a backup candidate. No matter what, hillary will never be president of the united states. Get used to it.

[DJ13]

11. The fallback candidate should be Gore

Hillary (and her hopeful for disaster to strike Obama supporters) can forget it.

[glowing]

12. Why?

At no other time has any Democratic Nominee needed a back up. When the Primary is done, its done. Why, then, is there this great assumption that the Dems need a back up? Do you think that somehow Obama is less than any of our other candidates that made it. Some years we win and many other's we lose. At the end of the day, who really thinks that we are going to elect and 71yr old man who thinks keeping Bush policy in place is the way to bring about change in America? Yes, M$M is a contention that we always have to go against.. they are obviously biased for Repigs because it keeps them making money... so, fair and balanced it is not.

I don't think Obama needs a back-up. He's done well bringing in fresh and ispired new voters who are ready to lift this country up as long as there is a President who is willing and enabling them to lift it..

[MrCoffee]

13. You're not arguing for a back up, you're arguing for a do-over.

[OzarkDem]

37. Sorry for the delay

I had a conference call.

Anyhoo, I'm not arguing for a do-over, I'm not sure how one could even accomplish that. But we need some sort of back up.

We've been lulled into a false sense of security because the GOP has been so quiet and the news media semi-objective during this primary race.

You know that's going to change radically.

[PoliticalAmazon]

14. "...Dems need to have a "fallback" candidate." Yeah, we know....

in case Obama gets assassinated. Stuff it where the sun doesn't shine. Hillary is unsuitable even if something happens to Obama.

[OzarkDem]

39. Take off the tinfoil hat

I'm referring to "swiftboating" or revelations even more shocking than Rev Wright.

Past drug abuse, polygamist father, Rezko, etc. Let's be realistic, the news media and the GOP are going to begin talking about this stuff.

[Lucky 13]

15. Yes, we all need a back-up!

I have a back-up partner JUST IN CASE my current partner is ever unfaithful or gets hit by a bus or something.

I also have back-up Senators and Congressmen, because you never know when a guy like Patrick Leahy is going to go off the deep end and embarrass himself or his constituents.

And just think! If we had had a "fallback" candidate for Kerry, when the GOP swiftboated him, we could have yanked his ass and just put some other guy in there! Screw this, "we'll support our nominee no matter what" crap! Screw unity. Screw solidarity.

:sarcasm:


This is total, utter HORSESHIT and another way for her and her supporters to undermine our nominee.

He IS the nominee. The ONLY nominee. He will be our candidate through to November... no matter what. The choice of VP is his and his alone. Neither he nor the party are going to be bullied by a bunch of irrational shrill wackos that can't accept defeat gracefully.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

68. This is by far the best refutation for the OP's bullcrap, and yet, there is no response from her.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Damn rules,... soon this will be over

Get it out of your system

OBAMA is the Candidate

[Warren DeMontague]

17. Fallback Candidates: Al Gore, John Edwards, Chris Dodd, Dennis Kucinich

...gee whiz, have I left anyone out?

[TornadoTN]

18. Wow....so now we need a Co-President, "just in case"?

This is pathetic. We have a nominee and we need to stand with him.

[dchill]

19. Edwards for VP!

[Kool Kitty]

20. So what you are saying is that we should keep

Hillary waiting in the wings in case something "catastrophic" happens? I didn't go for the idea when she floated it. Obama is the presumptive nominee. He can handle what is coming. So many things that have been proposed during this campaign season have amazed me.

[scheming daemons]

21. I'm more worried about what Hillary would do than what the GOP would do....

[FrenchieCat]

22. And what happens if Hillary Clinton "Implodes"? Seems like that

could be the case.

[gkhouston]

46. Then I guess we'd need a "Fall Waaaay Back Candidate".

Lincoln, perhaps? :eyes:

[onenote]

23. And how would this work? And why is there any more/less need for this now than after the convention

Explain?

[NanceGreggs]

24. If I am understanding you correctly ...

... you are suggesting that the party should accept Hillary as nominee-in-waiting, because - as her surrogates have often said - anything can happen?

Well, that's a new one. It's a ridiculous talking point, but at least it's creative.

We have a nominee, and he's taking this fight all the way to his eventual inauguration. As he has proven time and again, he can speak and act for himself, and extremely well.

On the other hand, Hillary's leadership qualities have been disproven by her own conduct.

What is particularly amusing is the notion that Hillary can handle the attacks that will come from the GOP, while Obama can't. Given her behaviour throughout the primary process, it should now be abundantly clear that playing the victim and crying sexism are not the kinds of weapons that will work against such attacks - and, as she has demonstrated time and again, these seem to be the only "weapons" she knows how to use.

[Tom Rinaldo]

25. Democrats don't formally close their options until Denver, so...

If it is revealed that Barack Obama was secretly cloned on Pluto by Venusians from a mix of Elvis Presly and Muhammad Ali DNA, and then prgrammed on a flying saucer before secretly being smuggled into Chicago, Democrats can always find another candidate. If not Hillary, then Edwards or Biden or Richardson, or Al Gore. Until such time we now have our presumptive nominee.

[dionysus]

30. welcome aboard Tom.

[Tom Rinaldo]

32. Thanks. I switched to Obama after Oregon. n/t

[OzarkDem]

40. Lets hope the vetting happens before August

and not later.

While it may be fun to make jokes about it, it won't be much fun when the GOP / news media begins coming after him for Rezko, past drug abuse, shady Chicago connections, etc, etc.

Let's face the fact that Obama is still a relative unknown, a dangerous thing for any Dem candidate as it gives the enemy a chance to reinvent and redefine him to the public.

[billyoc]

61. OK, I faced it. Thank you for your concern.

5 more days.

[bain_sidhe]

26. counter argument: by your own reasoning

the GOP will wait until it's "too late" before they start sliming our nominee.

Well, the GOP is evil, not stupid. They know as well as we do that it's not "too late" until after the official vote at the convention. The convention is the last place where delegates could switch. After that, Hillary won't be a "fall back" anymore, so having Hillary as a "fall back" between now and the convention (where, remember, it becomes "too late") serves no purpose except to prevent the unity we need to win the G.E.

[blogslut]

27. snap. out. of. it.

[dionysus]

28. why, what exactly do you think will happen... hmmmm?

:eyes:

[americanstranger]

29. Sorry, but you're defying logic. Or trying to.

You make it sound like if the Republicans go after Obama, we'll be able to swap him out like a bad hard drive and replace him with Hillary.

It don't work like that. The nominee is the nominee, for good or for ill.

Not to mention that if the Repubs succeeded in 'destroying' Obama, they wouldn't have as much if not more ammo to use on Clinton? Here's a pretty good list that I cribbed from a commenter at TPM:

1. If the first major decision Obama makes is seen as being forced upon him – as taking Hillary Clinton on as his VP pick would be – he’d immediately start from a weakened position.
2. Change: Senator Clinton DOES NOT represent change. She represents the status quo. She represents the exact opposite. We all know it. Republicans won’t forget that. Neither will Obama’s supporters.
3. 2 Senators on a ticket would be a disaster.
4. 2016: Hillary offers nothing for a 16 year run – these types of things must be considered if we are going to really turn back the clock on 40 years of destructive conservative rule.
5. New York State will be won no matter who Obama choose as VP.
6. Hillary’s numerous lies: Not just the recent ones like Sniper Fire, NAFTA, etc.
7. Hillary's ethics problems from the early 1970s while in Washington as a lawyer.
8. Hillary’s Rose Law Firm work: attacked the credibility of an alleged 12 year old rape victim
9. Hillary’s Union-busting WalMart work.
10. Hillary’s religious cult: Doug Coe.
11. Hugh Rodham
12. Norman Hsu: Over $800,000 in illegal donations. How many other Hsu’s are there?
13. Vince Foster (lie or not doesn’t matter).
14. NAFTA & The Clinton’s Chinese connections.
15. Bill: Saudi Arabia & his other foreign business dealings.
16. Bill: Impeachment
17. Bill: Library Fundraisers
18. Bill: Monica Lewinsky, Jennifer Flowers, Kathleen Willey, Juanita Broderick and ALL the current “affairs.”
19. Bill: “Speaking fees” from Foreign Governments that helped HRC loan money to her campaign.
20. Bill: Sandy Berger
21. Bill: 9/11 – True or not, he will be blamed.
22. Bill: Mena, Arkansas (state officials were involved in some way with alleged illegal cocaine importation, money laundering while Bill was Governor).
23. Bill: Webb Hubbell; Bill’s associate AG (Plead guilty on federal mail fraud & tax evasion charges).
24. Bill & Hillary: Whitewater.
25. Bill’s Pardons: Don Tyson (Chicken), Marc Rich
26. Bill: Illegal donations from Canadian tycoon Frank Giustra

(And let's at least be honest here. You say that you're not offering this argument for Clinton because you supported her. It's fairly obvious that you're offering the argument specifically because you supported her.)

Obama is the nominee, and 'keeping our options open' is destructive to his chances in the Fall. The clock is ticking, and in general election campaigns time is truly money.

Clinton needs to concede, by end of week at the very latest. Or she risks torpedoing what remains of her political career. If I were a Clinton supporter, I'd be a little more worried about that right now.

- as

[Swamp Rat]

31. NeoGore is the One

[hokies4ever]

33. Agree. You never know what could happen between now and Denver. RFK was assassinated in June.

:eyes:

Your fear-mongering about 'any scenario' is despicable. Hillary should just suspend her campaign, endorse Obama, and attend the Convention. Olbermann has already addressed this after her RFK assassination comment. It's not like if she suspends her campaign the party can't come back to her if something did happen.

[OzarkDem]

48. Assassination highly unlikely

and anyone trying to sisparage other Dems questioning of Obama's viability by using it just end up looking like hysterical fools.

[NeedleCast]

34. I didn't read the OP but let me make a guess about it's conent

It includes one or all of the following:

1. New metric for how Hillary can win.
2. Explanation of why Obama can't win the General.
3. Suggestions of Sexism where there isn't any.
4. Suggestion that the DNC screwed Hillary.
5. Hinting that there's some secret dirt in Obama's closet.
6. Explanation of why the super delegates will all change their mind before convention.
7. Defense of Hillary saying in the race.

[theboss]

35. This is the most ridiculous bullshit I have ever heard

The primary is not a beauty contest. You don't choose a runner up in case the nominee "can't fulfill her duties."

Obama won. He is the nominee. Like every other Democratic nominee in our history.

Here's a great message: Let's nominate a black man for the first time in American history. But let's also nominate a backup, just in case he fucks it up.

[OzarkDem]

43. Let's see how you feel in September

when the GOP decides to roll out "new product".

[theboss]

51. And what are going to do if they do?

Roll Hillary out of mothballs and insert her in the campaign.

That will look great.

Have confidence in Democrats in America...even though we have none in ourselves.

[OzarkDem]

59. What do you suggest?

Let Obama go down to defeat?

[Warren DeMontague]

60. I suggest supporting Obama and helping him win the White House.

He is going to be the nominee.

[theboss]

64. How does this work exactly?

Does Hillary run a campaign of her own in secondary cities?

While Obama is running for President in Albaby is she in Baton Rouge?

Do they both appear on the ballot?

[DeepBlueC]

36. She has a lot of support

She represents the thoughts of a significant percentage of Democratic primary voters and that buys her a voice in how things go from here, as I see it. If Obama is wise, he will hear her and make the appropriate gestures to the constituency she has assembled. He might yet learn still more from her.

[LSK]

38. WHEN has there ever been a fallback candidate?????????

What fucking alternative universe do you live in???

Do you expect another election to be held in November with alternative candidates?????

[OzarkDem]

44. As I said in my OP

These are unusual times. No one would have thought the GOP could steal a presidential election through election fraud, yet they've done it twice, in 2000 and 2004.

[LSK]

49. what does election fraud have to do with having alternative candidates

You are making NO SENSE AT ALL.

[OzarkDem]

54. No

you're deliberately avoiding a relevant discussion.

[theboss]

52. And how does a backup candidate prevent election fraud?

That makes no goddamn sense.

[OzarkDem]

55. Election fraud is an example

of dirty tricks that no one had previously thought could be used in a presidential election.

Now that the public has gotten wise to election fraud, the GOP has to find new ways to influence the outcome.

[theboss]

62. John Quincy Adams and John F. Kennedy would like a word with you about election fraud

It's been around for a long, long, long time.

[SurfingAtWork]

41. Excellent point! I mean what would we have done in 1992 if Tonya Harding wasn't there to step up

When Ms. Kerrigan had her... err.. accident.

:sarcasm:

[OzarkDem]

45. Ummm...Welcome to DU

:crazy:

[anonymous171]

42. That's why Edwards suspended his campaign. Anything can happen.

[Buck Rabbit]

47. Gore, Kerry and Dean are the fallbacks, not also rans from this campaign.

[Midwest_Doc]

50. Why Should a Potential Fallback Candidate Be Clinton?

If the Clinton camp manages to sully Obama to the point that we need a fallback candidate, it should be anyone EXCEPT Clinton.

[OzarkDem]

58. Because she already has 17 million voters behind her

a slightly larger number than Obama has.

[theboss]

65. Again, I wish Hillary had played football

She would be talking about total yardage instead of points.

[DearAbby]

53. Conceding the race to Obama

would not negate her second place slot. This is BS...total BS.

[OzarkDem]

56. Wouldn't it?

How so?

[theboss]

63. Because she finished second

I swear to God...Hillary needs Bobby Knight on her team to explain concepts like "winning and losing" and "first and second."

[DearAbby]

67. What's the deal?

would you feel happy if Obama was waiting like a vulture for something to happen to hillary? Like Hillary isnt capible of taking care of herself? Since when have we needed or had BACK UP CANDIDATES? Why do you allow the GOP to define our primary process? Living in fear of what the GOP will do...no way to decide what this country needs.

Is it because he is black, that somehow he needs a back up? Why didnt we have back up candidates in the last 75yrs?

[Barack_America]

57. GOP operatives made a MOVIE about Hillary...

In anticipation of her run. They've done years of oppo research on her. Betcha they know some of those hidden library donors.

Why should she be the fallback, if one were needed?

[Arkana]

66. The Republicans would go nuclear on anyone who runs as the Dem nominee.

What makes Obama any different?

And what makes you think they'd back off on Clinton if it was her?

[newmajority]

69. I don't believe we need a "fallback candidate", but if we did, who did you have in mind?

President Gore??

Howard Dean??

Who?