It is interesting to watch the continuing attacks on Hillary today.

[Tennessee Gal]

Didn't Obama win the nomination last night? Isn't that enough for Obama supporters here today? Don't you need to unite the party to beat McCain in November? How do you intend to accomplish that feat by continuing to attack Hillary and her supporters?

[EFerrari]

1. What exactly has been interesting to you?

[Tennessee Gal]

3. You should be able to tell based upon the questions in my OP.

[EFerrari]

18. Not really, They don't indicate any particular interest to me.

Which is why I asked.

[joshcryer]

153. It's not that interesting. Obama supporters have been about 'not-Hillary' more than 'pro-Obama.'

So the responses that continue into today are completely unsurprising.

[Mezzo]

156. If Obama loses, will it be his fault, or hers?

[Mezzo]

155. Playing dumb about sexism was very interesting I thought

[NJmaverick]

2. Ahhh did Hillary concede? Did she congratulate the winner

and throw her support behind him? Did she start to work on healing the rifts SHE created?

[springhill]

68. Are you talking about the rifts caused by.........

Obama's campaign bringing race into the campaign or maybe it was the pimping of the Kennedy comment you are referring to?
Just curious. Oh, dang, I forgot. Obama good, Hillary bad.

[Mezzo]

157. or those right wing fliers he sent out in Ohio

or those memos talking about how to use race as a wedge issue.

[Labors of Hercules]

165. Hang on... Hillary based her WHOLE ARGUMENT on Barack's "inability to win" White voters

"...Sen. Obama's support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me."

"There's a pattern emerging here," she said.

And you have the FUCKING GALL to accuse HIM of playing the "race card"?

You are wrong. period. end of story. W-R-O-N-G.

[Mezzo]

166. No she did not. She based her argument on how SHE can WIN.

[Labors of Hercules]

168. yeah, by presenting herself as the alternative to the Black guy.

spin it however you want, that's PRECISELY what she was doing by NOT speaking out against the racism people were showing.

[Beacool]

113. The rift SHE created?

Way too funny......

[PassingFair]

4. Did Obama win last night?

Let's ask the woman who was introduced as the
"next President of the United States".

It will be enough for "Obama supporters", when
she withdraws.

[John Q. Citizen]

5. Apparently we still have Hillary to kick around. She should concede and stop the bleeding.

[Tennessee Gal]

7. Kicking her at this point is not very wise.

[greguganus]

23. Another thread of Tennesee Girl with her one liner of threatening us with her one vote. Zzzz. n/t

[Tennessee Gal]

31. I made no threat.

[Auntie Bush]

151. You believe that at your own peril.

I've decided to concede my vote to Obama...but that doesn't mean all 17M
of her supporters will also. You need to court/respect their votes if you want to win this election...I do! I know it's tough for some H S to vote/support O. and I know It's also tough for some/most O S to show Clinton respect...but we ALL have to do something that's really TOUGH once in awhile. It's good food for your soul. Eat hardily!

[John Q. Citizen]

50. Not conceding is even less wise though. You have to admit, Bagdad Bob is being outdone.

[frylock]

91. you pointing out that she's still hanging around doesn't seem all that wise either..

she really needs to take a hint. when she concedes, the criticism will cease. until that point she just brings the shitrain upon herself.

[Terran]

105. Why? Because you'll vote for McCain if a few people here

don't stop attacking Hil for her failure to do what's right? Let's get this out in the open, shall we?

[Tennessee Gal]

133. I am a Democrat. I will not vote for McCain. However, it is up

to Obama and his supporters to behave with dignity in their attempts to bring Hillary supporters into the fold.

[mitchtv]

137. One thing to tell 17 million that they have lost

another thing to tell them they are all wet and their opinions mean shit they backed an evil >>>> .SOme real republican back work going on here. It is virtually half the party that voted for her a little Grace would go a long way

[Terran]

140. I can't speak for my fellow Obama supporters at DU, but

when has Obama himself ever failed to treat Hilary and *her* supporters with respect and dignity? Even once? Have you read the forum today? There's an interesting article about him meeting with 25 prominent MN Clinton supporters.

Isn't his behavior what counts? I fail to see why so many people want to allow the behavior of other people at internet forums to define their own choices in this election. That is ludicrous.

Edit: here, read this article...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6273617&mesg_id=6273617

[dkf]

6. Do you think there would be any attacks if she had conceded

and said she would be supportive of our nominee?

Bad behavior will be criticized...

[kiranon]

9. Yes.

[cyndensco]

88. If she had conceded,

very few of us would have anything bad to say about her today. We would be concentrating on what we should be concentrating on: the presumptive democratic nominee. I cannot wait to stop thinking about hillary. It is time to turn the page.

[tedoll78]

150. Quit giving her that power over your thoughts.

You're an intelligent person. You can control what you think about, what you dwell on. She's yesterday's news, right? McCain is whom we should be focusing on, right?

Hillary doesn't have that much power over your brain function. You can easily consciously choose to re-direct your attention to fighting Mr McCain any moment now, and instead, you're the one choosing to harp on what she does (or does not).

It's very funny and sad to watch the "I want it RIGHT NOW!!!" mentality around here.

[cyndensco]

162. Oh, please let me explain,

I guess I did say "I cannot wait to stop thinking about her" - my bad. What I should have said was "I cannot wait to not have anything to say about her." Until she goes away, does the right thing, I will hold unkind thoughts of her but, believe me, she will not have any power over my brain function. She is a has-been. It is over.

She is more and more pathetic with each day. I want her to go away.

[frylock]

92. why?

[lumberjack_jeff]

167. Absolutely. There is no proportionality to Hillary hate. n/t

[Name removed]

8. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[niyad]

10. I guess they are using their one week of grace.

[Asgaya Dihi]

11. To be fair

it would have helped if she hadn't stood there grinning with her fans shouting "Denver!" behind her last night. A concession speech would have been nice, a calm give me time to think message acceptable, but not shouts of "Denver!" with her doing nothing to calm it and acting like she enjoyed it.

When you worry people they get annoyed. Doesn't excuse the excess but it does offer a reason for it.

[TornadoTN]

12. When she concedes and unites in support behind our nominee

Then she'll be welcomed with open arms. But this game of charades that she continues to play and the tired, illogical, and downright wrong talking points only heaps more and more shame upon her.

She is the one that has opened herself up to this.

[MyNameGoesHere]

35. She will and i feel probably the same way she feels.

Take your fake welcomes and shove them. i don't need your open arms as it is and always has been my party too. I will work for the dem nominee without the the blessing of the vile supporters.

[TornadoTN]

48. Give it some time, relax, step away for a while

Maybe you'll come around. Most of us supporters, in fact, 99.9% of us; will be very glad to be working in unison with you.

[MyNameGoesHere]

159. Come around to what?

i support the Dem nominee. I do not support vile idiots.

[Jawja]

78. Yes.

Until Hillary concedes and backs the nominee, the discussion about her behavior will continue here.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

13. McAuliffe claiming that she was the nominee didn't exactly help matters, did it? n/t

[otohara]

65. Tacky, Tacky, Tacky

but then that's who McAuliffe is and always has been. Thank Gawd he and Lanny Davis and a few others will soon be out of our lives.

[endarkenment]

14. Mostly I have seen dismay at her lack of leadership.

She had an opportunity last night to rise above her failed campaign - an opportunity that will not happen again, and she chose instead to remain mired in divisiveness. Too bad.

[dsomuah]

15. They need her to concede.

I would like the attacks to stop as much as you would. But I can see how Hillary's refusal to concede, and the fact that she appears to be holding Barack to ransom, either for the vice presidency, or for help retiring her campaign debt is fueling the continued attacks.

[babylonsister]

16. I'm still waiting for her to 'bow out gracefully'. Does she even know

the meaning of that?

[tularetom]

17. How can we miss her

if she won't go away?

People will keep attacking her until she finally recognizes reality and knocks off this "I-won-the-popular-vote" bullshit. She's the one trying to keep her name in front of us.

She won't be the president in 2008. She won't be the president in 2012 either. If she doesn't STFU soon she may not be a senator after 2012.

Nine months ago I would have gladly voted for her. Now, she's just boring.

Oh and by the way I haven't seen any attacks on Hillary "supporters". Do you equate disagreement with "attack"? Toughen up.

[rocktivity]

19. She brought it on.

Obama may be too much of a gentleman, but we don't have to be.

:headbang:
rocknation

[faithfulcitizen]

20. Oh brother.... NO, it's not enough. She needs to acknowledge the win.

What is so complicated about this? Obama did everything humanly possible to "unite the party". HER TURN.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

21. "The Next President of the United States" DENVER DENVER DENVER

Not to mention the desperate hope among some Clinton supporters that there is a tape of Michelle saying "whitey".

[Tennessee Gal]

22. So winning the nomination is not enough for Obama supporters?

He won! Why can't you go forward from there and attempt party unity? Whatever Hillary said last night has little importance now. Obama supporters should find the high ground to party unity if they want to defeat McCain. Obama supporters should be finding a way to bring Hillary supporters into their fold.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

24. How do you bring someone who is hoping for "something" to happen to your candidate into the fold?

[Tennessee Gal]

27. You don't do it by attacking.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

29. And what constitutes attacking? Calling them on spreading rumors?

I have nothing against the vast majority of Clinton supporters. I have major problems with those that continue to push lies.

[Tennessee Gal]

Have you been paying attention to the thread titles today?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

32. People are angry at Hillary Clinton because of her speech yesterday.

I see threads attacking her for that. How can you say "well, ignore what Hillary said"? We cannot move forward until she stops insisting that she's the better candidate, that she is the rightful nominee, etc.

[Tennessee Gal]

36. Does that justify this thread title?

"Hillary Clinton is a power hungry fool and a LOSER."

[SemiCharmedQuark]

37. So is your issue only with that thread? Or any thread that criticizes Clinton?

On Edit: I do think that thread is above and beyond, btw.

[Tennessee Gal]

69. Why is there any need to criticize Clinton at this point?

The goal should be to unify.

[scheming daemons]

95. We're criticizing her because she is working AGAINST the goal to unify..... sheesh....

She is working to undermine our candidate...... so she gets justified criticism.....


...and you're here saying that we all should sit by and LET HER chop Obama off at the knees without criticizing her!?


Amazing...

[Tennessee Gal]

121. The nominee has the responsibility to unify the party.

What has Hillary done to "chop Obama off at the knees?"

[mitchtv]

120. It is clear

your vote is wanted , but only their terms the fact that half the voted went to Clinton means nothing , No compromise, no concessions. They think they can win it eithout your vote

[Tennessee Gal]

134. They may be sorely disappointed if they think they can win

the GE without the votes of the Hillary supporters.

[MattBaggins]

144. And that would be the second problem

Concession.... What the hell do you want? What the hell does Hillary want? All we get are some vague notions of respect.

Do you want the VP slot?
Extra voices in determining the party platform?
Representation in Obama's Cabinet?


See we have a little problem with working out a compromise when we hear "Madame President, who is willing to start working for Unity, but wants to be offered the VP slot, which she may or may not take, after she drags this to Denver, which she might not do". We have to have the concession before we can compromise.

[Kool Kitty]

59. No, you are right.

But she does no one any favors by prolonging the inevitable. She has lost. The longer she refuses to acknowledge this, the more she looks like a sore loser. I think she is bigger than that, and I hope she comes to terms with that soon, because we have a GE to win.

[jonestonesusa]

42. You say Obama won,

CNN says Obama won, DU says Obama won, but Hillary Clinton doesn't say so. So she and her campaign should expect supporters of the presumptive nominee to be critical of her actions - even the party leaders, Pelosi and Reid, are calling for superdelegates to weigh in with preferences and end the campaign.

If you drag on the nomination process because, as Hillary Clinton herself put it so famously, "My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right?" and what will result is criticism from those in your party that want to prepare for the GE.

Expect continuous criticism until this train wreck of a campaign comes to a standstill.

[Tennessee Gal]

72. The Obama campaign is in the driver's seat now.

They are in control of bringing about party unity, but that is not what appears to be the goal here on DU today. There is still a lot of attacking Hillary supporters here.

[scheming daemons]

96. We can't HAVE party unity until she concedes, don't you get that? UNITY IS UP TO HER.

Nothing Obama does can achieve unity UNTIL SHE CONCEDES.


By NOT conceding, SHE is the one causing disunity. This deserves criticism.



Get it?

[Tennessee Gal]

122. No, unity is up to the nominee.

Get it?

[scheming daemons]

130. It doesn't work that way, never has. How the loser goes about losing has ALWAYS defined it....

Kennedy in '80.... Reagan in '76....



When there is disunity in a party after a hard-fought primary, it is usually because the losing side refused to let go... or gave only lukewarm support.


The losing candidate... not the losing candidate's SUPPORTERS, mind you.... is the only one who can make reconciliation possible.

[Tennessee Gal]

136. So you think Obama has no control over what Clinton supporters

do from this point forward? You think Obama bears no responsibility for bringing Clinton supporters on board? Good luck with that.

As for me, I am watching Obama from here forward to November.

[scheming daemons]

139. He can't really go after her supporters as long as her supporters are getting the signal from her

that she's taking this to Denver.


She has to "release" her supporters, emotionally, first. If she says she's still in, why would they start warming up to Obama?


There can be NO unity until there is only ONE candidate. Until Hillary concedes, there's not just one candidate - at least not in the minds of her supporters.

[MattBaggins]

145. No unity is up to both parties

Get it?

[hfojvt]

60. Why should we be doing that when it's so much easier for Hillary to do it?

Isn't that her job, IF she cares about abortion rights, women's issues, the working class, ending the war, etc., etc., all the things she CLAIMED to care about in her campaign, then isn't that her job?

That's too big of an IF though. She has clearly demonstrated since late February that she doesn't really care about the things she claims to care about. Those issues and those people take a back seat to her true purpose - making Hillary President. And she continues to demonstrate that. Like Nader she can't seem to put her own ambition or ego behind progressive causes, and the obvious and clear way to support progressive causes - by defeating conservative Republicans.

Our purpose in bashing her here is to give Hillary 40 lashes with a wet noodle to encourage her to do the right thing. But we have been doing it for months to no avail.

[dchill]

80. "Whatever Hillary said last night has little importance now."

Right - it's what she didn't say.

:shrug:

[gateley]

25. They're not continuing - it's a new wave.

Yesterday before the primaries both sides (here) were coming together and being united. Lots of group hugs. :7

When she neglected to acknowledge Obama's win, and in essence presented an argument for her continuing the race, all bonhomie was lost (with me, anyway). Hillary's supporters and Obama's supporters know we need each other in November - she made no effort to promote any unity or coming together.

It's Hillary I'm furious with, not her supporters (except those who threaten to vote for McCain). If I were a supporter I'd be just like you guys - loyal to the end.

[RB TexLa]

26. There will be no such thing as enough, that will continue well past November

[cyndensco]

93. There IS an enough: she needs to concede.

Once she does, if she does, I for one will have nothing to say about her. She missed her opportunity last night - hopefully she will do the right thing soon. This is no longer a 3-person race, it is a 2-person one (excluding Barr and Nader). She needs to play by the rules.

[PoliticalAmazon]

28. Hillary doesn't get a free pass on her divisive tactics....

The media, Democratic Party politicians and leaders, and even Thom Hartmann, are all criticizing Hillary today for her "me-me-me" speech last night.

Thom said that a friend and he watched all three speeches, and about 5 minutes into the Obama speech, his friend said, "You know, Obama's speech and Hillary's speech have something in common--they are both talking about her."

Thom used to have Hillary at the top of the list for Obama's VP. No more.

It's going to be like this until she stops her divisive ways. If you don't like it, go to the source: Hillary Clinton.

[ContinentalOp]

30. It's a pretty hollow victory

When you wake up in the morning and the front page of CNN.com has a giant picture of Clinton and the headlines "Clinton bucking for VP bid?" and "Clinton should be veep, Obama urged." The latter of which is incredibly misleading btw.

She needs to get the hell out of the way.

[LoZoccolo]

33. He won, but she's still trying to damage him.

That's a legitimate topic, I think.

[karynnj]

34. Has she conceded - or is she implicitly calling into question his win

Why the last minute attacks from Bill Clinton and why the talk of a co-Presidency? Why the four month pretense that there is a popular vote? First off, if you wanted to estimate it, at least have the intellectual honesty to estimate it using a stratified sampling like estimator where you weight each state to reflect their proportion of the Democratic voters. (An easy approximation - multiply the best estimate of a state's proportion by candidate times the assigned pledged delegates as that number reflects what their weight should be.) This wasn't done - and the Clinton people know why.

[City Lights]

38. Has she conceded, suspended her campaign and endorsed him?

:shrug:

Last I heard she was holding out for "maximum leverage." Party unity is a two-way street.

[Lucky 13]

39. Please read the letter from Clinton supporter Hilary Rosen

it will give you a clear understanding of why people are still angry

[F.Gordon]

40. The big bad mean 'widdle' girl pissed on their parade

:shrug:

IMO it's never been about Obama "winning". It's been about destroying Clinton. It'll go on till she's no longer in politics. I'd love to see her get the VP spot just to watch the heads explode around here.

[EFerrari]

46. Nobody needs to try to destroy Clinton. She's doing it to herself. n/t

[F.Gordon]

62. Index Card # 406 ???

:crazy:

[EFerrari]

64. Yep. It's so obvious, it should have its own acronym.

SDTH aka #406

[F.Gordon]

75. No, it's so obvious that your response was 'predictable'

Easy money.

[EFerrari]

81. Too bad you can't take the reality check. n/t

[F.Gordon]

86. "Sweetie".... I'm more in touch with reality than you'll ever be

:hi:

[mitchtv]

119. no dear she's had plenty of help

hard to tell where the talking points originate most of the time. I heard one of Romney's playbook Points being used by a so called Democrat yesterday. I have voted Dem for more than 30 years, As a dem it saddens me to hear the venom and discourages me towards the goals as they seem to tell me and 17 million others that our votes are not necessary, or wanted (which is about half the voting party) All I have to say is Keep it up, and you'll see what it gets you

[jonestonesusa]

47. So is it fair for a Democratic primary voter to oppose Clinton?

I don't know what you mean by "destroy" Clinton, but certainly there is significant opposition to her campaign for the nomination, and that's the whole purpose of a primary season, which is continuing due to the lack of concession.

And if you want to know why Obama supporters voted for him, you could ask then and respect their explanations. But it doesn't sound like you will do that.

[F.Gordon]

54. I know plenty of Obama supporters

The OP asked why Obama 'supporters' HERE were still pissing and moaning about Clinton. Apparently, as I see it, Clinton was suppose to follow some "Obama Script".

If you and others are "secure" in your support for Obama why obsess over Clinton?
:shrug:

[godai]

58. Why? Because she continues to hurt his GE chances.

But, maybe that's the plan. What do you think?

[F.Gordon]

61. Soooo.... you're ***not*** secure in your support of Obama?

Out in the real world Obama is the Democratic Nominee.

Do I think Clinton wants to hurt Obama in the General Election? No. If you want to believe that.... fine. Go for it.
:hi:

[Madam Mossfern]

102. Then why isn't she conceding and congratulating?

Yes Obama will be the nominee, but Clinton's tactics seem to be aimed as harming his chances to win. Are you a democrat, or are you merely a Hillary Clinton supporter? Your posts in this thread are mean-spirited. I understand that you may be disappointed, but those grapes will not make any fine wine, they're more suited for vinegar.

[F.Gordon]

107. What is this? World Wrestling League Tag Teaming?

"seem to be aimed as harming his chances to win"

I guess it's all about perceptions.
:crazy:

How have I been "mean-spirited"?
:shrug:

And there's that 'predictable' "are you a democrat" crap. Strange that you'd seperate the two.... not a democrat but just a Hillary supporter? :crazy: Which Index Card is that? I can't keep track.
:dunce:

[Madam Mossfern]

108. Look at the tone of your posts.

Why is she not conceding or congratulating? Obama is the presumptive candidate, why is she not acknowledging this? I know that you are a bright person, can you give any explanation why she is holding out? Why she is not releasing her delegates? For heaven's sake, even Charlie Rangel is perplexed over her actions and he's a great supporter.

There has to be agreement on a nominee in order for the party to go full steam ahead on a campaign for the GE, her inaction is holding this back. There is nothing further Obama can do to unite the party. It's up to Hillary to urge her supporters to now support the presumptive nominee.

[PoliticalAmazon]

141. What is her purpose then? n/t

[jonestonesusa]

154. I am "obsessing" over Clinton because I'm a political junkie

and I follow news closely. And I'm having a conversation with you and other people who are on DU as well as people in my immediate circle. I think it's fairer to say that it's really the mainstream media that is obsessing over Clinton today and in recent weeks, who stayed in the race at a time when many Democrats were looking forward to finalizing the nomination.

If you want to use pop psychology to reach a conclusion about why I or others support Obama, that's your right. You'll get more accurate information if you ask out of genuine interest in exchanging opinions.

[Radical Activist]

70. She's not big and bad. She's an egomaniac skating by on her husband's name.

If she were anyone else the media would have ignored her ridiculous gadfly campaign after February.

[F.Gordon]

84. An Egomaniac?

The media has ignored her. All the Talking Bobble Heads on the "left" have worked tirelessly to tear her down.

The "media" has hedged their bets on Obama because they see him as the Goose That Lays The Golden Egg. Ya' see... in the corporate world of MSM it's all about the money. They could care less who becomes President. They'll "back" the candidate(s) that write(s) the largest check.

Ka-Ching!!!

[Radical Activist]

89. The media covered her heavily and called her the inevitable frontrunner for months.

That spin isn't true no matter how much Hillary supporters complain about the media.

Dennis Kucinich stayed in until the convention in '04 but he was ignored completely. That's what should have happened to Hillary after February. She hasn't been a serious candidate for a long time but she has gotten ample coverage.

[F.Gordon]

97. Now it's ...... "ample coverage"

:silly:

I'm not complaining about the media. I just explained to you how this stuff works.

Got Money? Get Media Support.

When you attempt to use "Xeroxed" talking points about Hillary supporters you will piss a few of them off. Maybe more than a few.

I especially like the... "if you don't support Obama you're really not a Democrat." That's one of my faves. :crazy:

[Radical Activist]

106. You don't like the word ample?

Why make a point when you can just be snide?

If you think Hillary was ignored by the media then you've been living in another country or planet.

And yes, I understand that candidates with no money like Dodd and Kucinich get ignored. But what on earth does that have to do with Hillary?

[F.Gordon]

111. I'm being snide?

And "ample" implies a defined 'quantity' as determined by the conveyor.

No... the media hasn't entirely ignored Hillary.... and you're correct ... we're drifting off course here.

[frylock]

99. i'm sure you would..

unity, mcclinton style.

[F.Gordon]

104. Sure I would what?

The Clinton VP thing?

Personally... I think it's his only option because in the real world many people would have a hard time understanding why he didn't give it to her.

But yes... I'd love to watch the heads explode around here if it did happen. And it has nothing to do with "unity". Just good ol' entertainment.

:hi:

[frylock]

112. in the REAL WORLD people realize what a ruthless asshole clinton truly is..

8 years of that shit is enough. but you have a fun week. get it out of your system, then we can all look forward to gazing longingly upon your tombstone.

[cbc5g]

41. The Republicans congratulated him on winning and Hillary says nothing

And you expect us to leave her alone? WTF?

[Vinca]

43. I was hoping we could focus on Obama once he met the magic number,

but until Hillary is dragged off the stage, it's not going to happen. I've been depressed all day today. Last night we had one of the most historically significant events in the last 100 years occur and it was diminished by Hillary. Her speech was arrogant and all about herself. It seems she loves her rabid fans who are now threatening to vote for McCain and set the women's movement back 40 years. If she wasn't enjoying it, she'd be encouraging them to support the presumptive nominee and might actually support him herself. I'm thoroughly disgusted with her.

[BlooInBloo]

44. tick tick tick tick

[zulchzulu]

45. As I've said before, she is roadkill in the rear view mirror at this point

She showed AGAIN last night she only cares about herself. She is enabling those that support(ed) her by dangling golden carrots in front of them. It is indeed a shame.

What is particularly interesting is how she wants her campaign, the worst run possibly ever, to "end". Whatever level of grace and valor or leadership she could have shown last night was, in her words, obliterated.

She can do whatever the hell she wants at this point. I don't care one bit. All I need to know about her is who her opponent will be if/when she runs again for public office. I'll do what I can to help her opponent kick her ass.

It's time to now kick McCain's ass. Join us or get out of the way.

And if you plan on voting for McCain, I'd be glad to drive you or any of your loved ones down to the local Army HQ as well as give you a bloody coat hanger, since that's what anyone who decides to vote for McCain "deserves".

[hedgehog]

49. LAst night I saw Hillary CLinton gather a few hundred of her most fervent supporters

in an isolated basement hall that was referred to repeatedly as a bunker and give a speech outlining the reasons she was the legitimate nominee. If she keeps this up for two months, she's liable to take the Party and by extension the country down to defeat in November.


And you wonder why people keep attacking about Hillary?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

51. The conflict between the left and right wings of the party will not end because of the nomination.

It's been around since the inception of the party and it's not going to go away.

The Clintons have, of their own accord, picked up the mantle of the right wing of the party. Obama is perceived to be the candidate, if not of the left, at least "not the right".

Cries of "unity" between the left and right are as futile as attempting to mix oil and water.

[Peregrine Took]

52. They need to have a "devil" so he can be a "god" and middle aged white

women are easy targets as they have, typically, represented authority figures in most people's lives and there is long standing, juvenile resentment against them.

Its interesting to see how Obama is hoisted on his own petard, however, as he is going to have to make a very practical and political decision and in doing so he just might tarnish his "god-like" image.

Obama the politician is going to be front and center from now on and watch how his worshipers start to ebb away.

I don't love HRC but I think her followers have "stick-ability" and won't run when things get rough.

I just don't trust these emotionally charged Obama fans. Will they stay with him when the aura starts to fade away and he moves more and more to the center as Democratic presidential candidates always do?

I don't think so.

[Higher Standard]

53. Yeah, this is the way to stop the negativity and attacks.

:eyes:

[godai]

57. You think Obama supporters would move to McCain?

Not in a million years but I'm not so sure of some Clinton supporters.

[Recursion]

63. No, just back to the couch

The last 3 months of the primary have been a gamble by HRC that Obama supporters wouldn't keep their interest up in a grueling primary, and would get disappointed and apathetic and tune out. She lost that gamble.

[godai]

66. That's just not a logical position for Obama supporters.

Clinton supporters are the disgrunted ones, some of whom are destined for the couch. No Obama supporter wants a President McCain. This is a once in a lifetime chance and Obama supporters are solidly behind him, no matter what.

[Tennessee Gal]

73. Then why are they not attempting to unifiy rather than attack

Hillary?

[godai]

82. First, Clinton must concede the nomination.

It's a slap in the face of Obama not to do so. I understand why she wont...still holding out hope for an Obama scandal, or at least the VP slot. Admitting that Obama won comes first but she can't bring herself to do that. She wants to meet with him first.

[frylock]

101. watching all those "emotionally charged Obama fans" chanting DENVER! DENVER! last night..

was really rather unsettling. :eyes:

[mudesi]

55. I'm sorry, did she concede yet?

He won the nomination 2 months ago.

[godai]

56. She wants a roll call vote in Denver!

This is one example of why the attacks continue. She has refused to admit that Obama has won. That's a slap in the face to Obama, and unacceptable. The whole bunker speech last night was distasteful. She lost. She needs to admit this and go away. She needs to stop trying to speak veiled threats to Obama and get out of the way. Then, and only then, the attacks will stop.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"She just urged her supporters to keep the dream alive, and talked privately about what she would settle for. She has told some Democrats recently that she wanted Obama to agree to allow a roll call vote, like days of yore, so that the delegates of states she won would cast the first ballot for her at the convention. She said she wanted that for her daughter."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/04/opinion/04dowd.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&ref=opinion&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

[jeffrey_X]

67. What's funny is Clinton putting herself above the party even after Obama won the nomination.

she's making a power play to show that she can "control" her 17 or 18 million "voters" for whatever reason. Has any other candidate done something similar in recent history?

Seriously. Get out, *officially* concede and unify the party NOW!!!! You'll just have to play with whatever cards you are dealt after the fact. That is consequence of losing. I know that is something you are not used to, but tough shit.

[Tennessee Gal]

77. I see no effort to bring Clinton supporters into the fold.

Get out says what? Tough shit? What does that say to Clinton supporters? Do you actually think that bring unity to the party?

[jeffrey_X]

83. Clinton suppoters or democrats?

at some point you are either with the nominee or against them. "This" is that point.

[Tennessee Gal]

125. I have been a Democrat all my life, but

there are many Democrats. If Obama wants my support, he is responsible for unifying the party. He has not. That is evident in the fact that as late as last night he could not win one of the two primaries. Some of the Obama supporters are ignoring that fact.

[Seabiscuit]

71. They're venting their spleen in the event Skinner closes this forum.

They need to get their last ounce of arrogance and hatred out before their favorite hobby-horse is closed down.

It's the Obamanoid way: sore losers and sore winners.

[MessiahRp]

87. I'd say only Sore Winners could apply to your argument

Since Obama won. I think we have a right to be upset that Hillary hasn't even the class to support our party's nominee, let alone say more than a single paltry positive sentence about him and his supporters. Obama has repeatedly given her more than her deserved due in his speeches, especially the past few weeks and in the light of his nomination clinching moment she shuns him again. It's pathetic.

Of course some of you are in such denial that you still think she won so I suppose we're "sore losers"...

And of course this is coming from the poster who tried to brag "WIPEOUT" as if she destroyed him in Indiana before the results were counted.... so pot meet kettle.

Rp

[JoFerret]

74. It's SWS

- sore winner syndrome.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

76. I'd like to say that had their been an OFFICIAL concession speech, things would be different, but...

...frankly, at this point I honestly doubt it.

There are just some people on this board who revel in ugly and mean-spirited behavior.

I think it is almost certain that Senator Clinton will officially concede the race by the end of this week, most likely on Thursday or Friday. Her speech yesterday all but stated she would do so.

Unfortunately, I am rather doubtful that the ugly posts we see today, still dwelling over God knows what, will go away at that time. There are just some sick, disturbed individuals on this board who insist on making things difficult for all of us Democrats.

[dionysus]

79. maybe we can do that once the spoiled brat concedes.

[kid a]

85. I will not bash Hillary. I officially criticize her for not endorsing Obama (but the day is young)

I will specifically criticize her for that each day, until she does.
No names, no disrespectful language.

[BlueJac]

90. Hillary should of done the right thing last night.....

concede so we all can move on.

[hokies4ever]

94. The sooner Hillary concedes, the better off we are

Sorry that we care more about the party than your gal Hillary.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

98. We DO need to unite-it's up to Hillary to LEAD that effort but has shown herself to be a sore loser.

[SoCalDem]

100. The stalkee, is usually not required to play kissy-face with the family/friends of the stalker

when they are caught ..

and I cannot recall anyone ever saying.."Hey they're hanging around all the time anyway, so why not just marry them?:eyes:

[HeraldSquare212]

103. How does Hillary intend to do that by not conceding and endorsing Obama?

Why is it that Obama has to reach out to her? She's stayed in for months longer than anyone thought she had more than a long-shot chance at the nomination - but still, even when he's won, it's still all about her? Aren't she and her backers interested in winning in Nov? Shouldn't they be storming Obama's offices offering their help?

[Arugula Latte]

109. Why does Hillary continue to attack and complain?

We'll stop when she stops destroying our party.

[Two Americas]

110. the goal

Unfortunately, the goal for too many Obama supporters is not to unite the party and win the general, but it is rather to identify enemies and polarize the public in an all-or-nothing good versus evil melodrama. The goal is to be "right" in a self-righteous way, not to win. The goal is self-expression, and an opportunity to vent years of frustration and hostility, not mass action or solidarity. One is welcome to be considered an ally only if one embraces this for-us-or-against-us theme and become a true believer. Otherwise, one is liable to be seen as an enemy and on the side of evil and purged from the ranks.

This is not about supporting the nominee. It is an insufficient display of loyalty to vote for the candidate or to work for the candidate. This is about what we are and are not permitted to say. No doubts, no critical analysis, no constructive criticism will be tolerated, as that will all be portrayed as somehow "hurting our candidate" or "helping the Republicans" and therefore heresy and disloyalty.

The goal now is to eliminate the heretics, not to win the hearts of the people let alone to advocate and promote a left wing political program. Anyone not on the bandwagon - and there will be hyper-vigilance in the cause of ferreting out traitors - will be told they are not needed or wanted, and that they may as well go vote for McCain. Almost all of us will of course vote for the party's nominee, as always. But when the general public is told they are not wanted or needed, that they are racist and stupid and wrong, uneducated, ignorant and evil, and that they may as well just go vote for McCain many of them will take that advice. That is the danger.



Disclaimer - I am not and never have been a Clinton supporter, and would not speak criticism of the Democratic party were it not - in my opinion - vitally necessary if we are to have any chance at beating back the extreme right wing in my lifetime. Objections to a particular approach, to certain tactics and rhetoric and campaign methods does not mean disloyalty to the party.

[smiley_glad_hands]

114. Go vote msame already.

[WeDidIt]

115. Being critical of Hillary Clinton's inability to be poised and gracious

is not an attack.

[jgraz]

116. The alternative is an enabling acquiescence to lies and smears against our nominee.

I choose to attack until she dries the fuck up and blows away.

[Beacool]

117. He barely made it over the finish line and that only thanks to the SD.

Last night was NOT about Obama, the media or the party leaders. They can all jump off a cliff as far as we are concerned.

Last night was about HER supporters. The millions who voted for her, plus the thousands of staffers and volunteers who worked so hard to get her elected.

If some didn't like it, then too bad.

Last night was for US, and she delivered beautifully.

[EFerrari]

123. You folks are hillarious in your self absorption.

Last night was an historic night for this country and all you can whine about is youyouyou.

That's just pathetic.

[Beacool]

126. And you Obama fans think it was about YOU, YOU, YOU......

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

129. No. Not at all. Last night was a giant step for this country.

Not to mention, the world community just sighed in relief that we may not be the racist assholes they have come to expect.

It isn't about Clinton or Obama. It's about a historic first, and hopefully, better relations on a small planet.

[DemExpat]

152. I wouldn't say the world community is sighing in relief.

Certainly the EU isn't. EU citizens have not seen the US as hopelessly racist, just have been majority anti-Bush, and the European press in general is still very cautious about an Obama candidacy. (BBC, Dutch News)

Also, a woman presidential nominee would also be a historic first, with, hopefully, better relations on a small planet.


DemEx

[Tennessee Gal]

127. Also, last night was a demonstration or is another indication that

Obama is not a very strong candidate. If he were a strong candidate, last night's primaries and the primaries of the previous weeks would have been easily his wins.

[EFerrari]

131. He did win and you repeating right wing talking points

on a message board doesn't change that.

[EstimatedProphet]

118. It has been interesting, hasn't it?

Apparently by just criticizing the idea that Hillary supporters shouldn't be attacked and driven off, we're complete Hillbots.

I knew months ago this election was going to be lost for us, by the same people that lose it for us every time. The average voter doesn't want to be lectured on how they are inferior just because they aren't fawning over our candidate, and burning in anger over the Repubs. Anyone who is going to campaign in that manner is going to lose every independent or undecided they try to win over.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

124. They subconsciously don't really want him to win in Nov. and would rather remain outsiders.

Some are probably Repub. trolls also.

[Tennessee Gal]

128. If you think that, you are an idiot.

I have been here a very long time. I fear that Obama is not a strong candidate. If he were, he would have been able to put Hillary away a long time ago.

[EFerrari]

132. She had everything going for her and yet this inexperienced

weak candidate beat her.

That must be very hard to take.

[mitchtv]

138. I'm sure it is hard to take

It wa a squeaker from what I see. A lot of real Democrats supported her, and If you want unity, it will take grace , NOT ONLY FROM Obama , but the New Red Guard too. Hurl insults at you risk.

[EFerrari]

147. A lot of real Democrats did support her.

And until she has the grace to concede, I see no reason not to confront bullies.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

135. I don't know if you meant to respond to me or not. I was saying that the posters insulting Clinton

were either Repub trolls who wnat to stir up trouble or ones who subconsciously don't really wnat him to win....

[MattBaggins]

148. Which begs a very interesting question

How weak does that make Hillary?

So what is the sense of endlessly propping up a candidate so weak that she couldn't beat Obama? It makes no damn sense.

You just don't get anyway. He could have put Hillary away easily if he had chosen to. Unlike you and your Candidate; he realized the damage that would cause the party. Unlike you I, and perhaps many Obama supporters, don't want to see our party ripped in half and two sides that want to throw the others out the door. He gave her all the space she needed and held back on the mighty haymaker out of respect for her, you and the party; yet you can not see that and would rather use it a reason to claw him in the face.

[Willo]

142. You were all over the other thread with the same recording

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6265948

[papapi]

143. Yawn. OK, I'll comment......

Hillary Clinton..........hum..............you mean that person who competed in the Democratic primary and lost? And do you mean that person who fomented sexism and racism as a campaign strategy? And do you mean that person who tried to slip in a hateful and disgusting suggestion of assassination? And do you mean that person who cannot find it in her heart to back the presumptive nominee of the party? And do you mean that person who gave misguided credence on Tuesday night to the idea that she still has some chance to win? That's the Hillary Clinton I have witnessed.

ORIGINAL QUESTION: "Didn't Obama win the nomination last night? Isn't that enough for Obama supporters here today?"

In answer to your original question: NO! That is not enough. Not by a long shot. In my forty years of voting I have never witnessed a more ill conceived concession speech that the bilge Hillary Clinton spewed last night.

It's time to go Hillary. Time for you to congratulate the presumptive nominee and most of all....TIME TO SHOW A LITTLE RESPECT!

[proud2BlibKansan]

146. Obama congratulated Hillary

She didn't congratulate him.

She also has yet to concede.

This is not an attack. These are facts. Hillary could take the high road here and concede and tell her supporters to support Obama. Or she can continue to lead them on.

It's her choice, not ours.

[BenDavid]

149. The biggest question is, will the Obama backers stop the Hillary hate?

[HeraldSquare212]

170. Since her backers forced her out, I think it's safe to say it will stop

[democrattotheend]

158. It's enough for me

I'm too happy today to think about or care what Hillary does anymore.

[PretzelWarrior]

160. it's been less than one day now. oh. and she hasn't conceded.

you're a bag full of nuts if you think we're going to NOT comment on her less than classy behavior.

[ecdab]

161. You must find Hillaryis44 quite fascinating then.

Wait for her to concede and endorse - everybody needs at least a few days to chill out.

[rucky]

163. Some people on both sides want it to go on forever.

It's a fetish.

[Zavulon]

164. It's interesting how many whiny posts we've had against those who criticized Her Highness today.

You know, even though she deserves every verbal or written shot she's taken ever since her disastrous IWR vote, not to mention her selfish and classless campaign.

Last I saw, the "*** REC THIS THREAD IF HILLARY SHOULD *NOT* BE THE VP ***" thread (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6270605) has 458 recs, all from members of a pretty savvy political forum. Why do you think that is?

[KoKo]

169. It's just some trolls ...crossover freeps who've gotten "religion" and some

who are just "rooting for their team." It's just the New American Sports Culture.

It's what it is...sadly.