Surprise Hillary Clinton is still here and she has given us a nice gift and a connundrum

[grantcart]

Surprise

First we should calm down.

There are problems from failure and problems from success.

It's nice to finally be grappling with problems from success.

We won.

We should attempt to now look at our situation as objectively as possible. We all had a perfect end scripted in our subconscious and we are disappointed. Well apparently so are the Clintons. Yes Jeffrey Toobin has reached a new level of affection for all rational people in the world with his grand slam smack down that the Clintons are in a cocoon of 'deranged narcissism'. At several points Toobin took over the punditry like Michael Jordan taking over a basketball game. Guess what the Clintons are still upset.

This somewhat adolescent temper tantrum is based in a couple of facts

1) They really care about this, they are invested and perhaps over invested. Now that is something that is completely foreign to all of us in GDP who know all of the people here but can only vaguely remember how many members are in our family and the name of the dog.

2) This is there last chance. If they don't get a ride on this train their next hope is, well, gone.

Completely unintentionally Hillary Clinton has given the Obama Campaign the greatest gift possible.

We only worry about the things that are in front of us. The threats that have been wiped off the board are out of mind. Senator Clinton has wiped off the board the one murmur that could have caused real problems. It could never have been addressed but only wandered in rumor and email through the voting public.


The threat that Senator Clinton eliminated is that he would be tagged 'affirmative action'.

"He is the nominee because of affirmative action. Hillary could have won but after Super Tuesday they gave it to him because he is Black. They didn't want to be accused of anything so they fold their tent and he waltzed through the park with ease. He has never faced a really tough opponent".

That problem doesn't exist. No one in this country doesn't believe that he over came tremendous odds. Here is Senator Clinton's unique gift;

Senator Obama has earned this nomination and everone in the country knows it.

He wasn't given any shortcuts, discounts or breaks. He was forced to do the whole obstacle course and he did so looking like he just jumped off the latest James Bond Movie.

Thanks Hillary.

Now here is the conundrum.

Senator Clinton isn't through playing and she doesn't like being a Senator that much. Maybe she even feels an obligation to hand that seat over to Robert Jr.

Maybe a promise was made that she wouldn't stick around. She would jump the queue warm it up for him and get out.

The fact is she wants to help win the nomination and be part of the next administration. She wants to be "Number Two"




well ok maybe that picture is a little harsh, she wants to be a gentler, kinder "Number Two"




What is her justification? She has spent 30 years committed to the party. She works hard. She has been able to get votes. A lot of votes.

Yes her attempt to use that as an argument for the nomination is hilarious.

As an argument for Vice President it's a damn good argument. If McCain had anybody that had gotten half of the votes that Hillary had gotten there would be no argument. He would be the VP nominee.



Now what is the conundrum? Well we want there to be a complete freedom for Obama to choose without any possible pressure. Well that is just bull.

What can she do? She cannot be nominated for President. No she cannot. But here is what she could do.

She could announce her campaign for Vice President

She could endorse Obama for President. She could say that he is the clear leader and she is going to follow him and support him without reservation. She could hand him all her contact lists for her donors. She could make speeches day and night in Ohio and Indiana and Pennsylvania telling them they were out of their minds if the thought that Senator Obama wasn't light years ahead of McCain.

And at the same time she could say that she is so dedicated to the cause that she is going to have her name entered into nomination for the Vice President of the United States for the Democratic Party in Denver.

And if she did it just like I laid it out above she would win by a landslide. Contrary to what you may think the nominee doesn't pick the VP candidate. The delegates do. She has a few. And of those that support Senator Obama a few would join on. Hell if they would just fire the clowns they have and hire BigTree and Phrgndumass, I would guarantee them the spot.

So I think that everyone who has a two word response that usually starts with the letters 'f' and 'y' lets just unwind our panties a little bit. Senator Clinton has given Senator Obama a great gift. He has become the nominee with a Grade A certificate and he didn't get a single break because he was ah well ah from Hawaii. Now Presidential Nominee Obama will have to negotiate with Senator Clinton. Now if he is smart enough to handle Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, which he is, then he is smart enough to talk with Senator Clinton.

And by the way if Senator Clinton really really really wants it she could declare her candidacy for the nomination, support Obama and run without his picking her.

And she would win.

That's the gift and the conundrum.

[XemaSab]

1. I don't understand a single word of this post

:shrug:

[babylonsister]

2. There's that conundrum. She's doomed.

I hope.

[grantcart]

5. well the short explanation is

For everyone that just wants to tell Hillary to go jump off the cliff and that she doesn't have any options - she does -

She could announce her support for Obama and also announce her candidacy for the Vice President. She would need only about 500 delegates to bring it up to the floor of the convention and she could make a floor fight for it.

The Nominee of the party doesn't actually pick the Vice President, that is just the custom. Anybody who has the deelgates could still have their name put into contention for the nomination. If she did it right she could probably pull off the nomination without the sponsorship of Obama.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

25. And create a split ticket...

Where the President and Vice President openly can't stand one another.

That would be as stupid a move as I've ever seen in politics.

[DeeDeeNY]

26. If that happens, a new Cabinet position better be created: Food Taster!

[boppers]

3. He brings her on the ticket..... he loses.

Too much hate.

He doesn't bring her on the ticket, he loses.

Too much hate.

That's the conundrum. :)

[grantcart]

8. Its not a question of him bringing her on the ticket

Its a question of her putting herself up for the nomination the floor.

If you have 25% of the delegates of the convention you can bring anything onto the floor. In anycase if she wanted to have her name put into nomination for the position she could do it.

[boppers]

11. Really? Wow.

Got a link handy with the floor rules?

That just seems... odd.

[grantcart]

14. I don't have the rules but the rules for the President and Vice President

are the same. There are nominations and votes. Almost all the time they are simply the pick of the nominee. Sometimes a minority candidate is put in (not recently) and there have been times where the nominee had no preference and left it to the delegates (I recall somebody back in the day of Coolidge doing that).

But basically if you have 25% of the delegates you can always get anything atleast to the floor.

[casus belli]

19. Truman is such an example.

He was completely uninterested in the job, even after it was handed to him by party insiders. He was their "compromise" in a contentious and hotly contested VP nomination.

[Occam Bandage]

4. Don't tell me you actually believe that the party would vote

for Vice President against the wishes of the candidate they just elected their Presidential nominee. That's nuts.

[grantcart]

7. I believe that she thinks she could do it

and the emotional intensity of her followers seem to confirm it.

If she did it at the same time she was pleding full support for Obama it would certainly put him in a difficult position.

It might be their final fall back option. They seem to be preparing for something.

[KittyWampus]

32. Hillary Clinton doesn't have that many supporters.

[grantcart]

9. Let me ask you this - do you think that the Clinton's haven't gone so

far as to game it out?

[billyoc]

27. Katherine Harris crazy

:rofl:

[doublethink]

6. I gotta rec this thread just for that first pic of Lucy !!!

Too tired to read through the post tonight grantcart, will book mark it for the morning ...... but thanks for the laugh on my way out of here tonight !!! :rofl: Peace......

[grantcart]

12. yes and I thought the pictures of "number two" were funny two

If Senator Clinton agrees to the eye patch shes on the ticket lol

[Radio_Lady]

10. Here's the drift -- and drift -- and drift... put into a nutshell.

Sometimes the ticket has to be put together to insure that the wishes of the Democrats in the Democratic Party are fulfilled.

We have two extraordinary people who really speak the same language and both have many features, benefits, and capabilities. They have worked well together before, and they both have been in this for a long time. Each came within a hair's breadth of this prize.

Now we have sort of a problem.

The older female white person got quite a big number of votes, but the younger male black person got more. However, the older female white person has some concerns that the younger male black person might not be able to win against the supporters of the Republican SUPER older male white person. That is reasonable, given some of the issues of this debate.

Part of politics is compromise and working together. So, there are approximately 50% of people (according to exit polling today) who would favor putting both of them on the same ticket. Of course, that leaves some people not so happy -- they'd rather pick some unknown, or one of the other also-rans, but each of those have their drawbacks.

So, why not consider putting BOTH of them together and running against that SUPER older male white person -- and also some as-yet-unknown person for his Republican second, who has yet to be chosen?

This story isn't finished -- and it might take awhile, but some of us really like the BOTH scenario. That way, each of them brings their supporters into the Democratic tent, because a LOT of DEMOCRATS voted for BOTH of these people. However, we have to decide if what they carry is "luggage" or "baggage" -- as stolen from some soothsayer on TV today.

See? It's really easy...

PS. Frankly, I don't know the workings of conventions enough to tell you that she can or cannot have her name put into nomination. I'll have to get back to you on that -- have your people call my people in the morning.

Good night and good luck!

Radio Lady in Oregon

[Radio_Lady]

13. Grantcart, I forgot to thank you. I love Lucy and so do my grandkids.

:loveya: :loveya: :loveya:

[grantcart]

15. I introduce my wife as the Thai version of Lucy

[funflower]

16. The Clintons are in a cocoon of 'deranged narcissism'

I never thought I'd say it. I've been a Clinton supporter for a long time and didn't think the fact that Barack Obama just knocked my socks off meant that had to change. But I don't see any way out of this conclusion. Hillary's failure to put the party, the nation and the world ahead of her personal ambition to be president or VP or whatever is a huge disappointment to me. If John McCain becomes President, he will have Hillary Clinton to thank for it.

[emilyg]

17. If O looses - no one to blame by him.

The buck stops here.

[funflower]

18. He'll win despite the Clintons' failure to support him and the party. n/t

[Tatiana]

20. Damn, I think this is the first time I'm thinking about disagreeing with you. NO! NO! NO!

Let me throw a few things out there:

1) You have heard what her "supporters" sound like. They want Hillary as President. This hard-core faction will not vote for Obama, even with Hillary on the ticket. They won't. The people who would vote for the Obama/Clinton ticket are true Dems and will come around and vote for the "D" in the general period.

2) Yes, Hillary has a good chunk of "Clinton Democrats" but you know what? Obama's base is bigger and broader. As this campaign wore on, what we saw is that Hillary's base narrowed. We are in the middle of a huge voter registration drive. Hillary does not have 18 million voters. California is Obama Country now, so you can take 2 million off that 17 million. And subtract another mil from NY, where you have seen a gradual shift towards Obama. Honestly, what you have is about 6-8 million hard-core Hillary fans. We can bring in that many new voters. Yes, we can.

3) Hillary has seriously shown herself to be delusional, out-of-touch, irrational and childish. These are not Presidential qualities and they are not vice-presidential qualities either. Can you imagine such behavior being exhibited by VP Gore? I don't think so. We need brains AND temperament. Intelligence AND good judgment. She would not do a good job as VP. We don't have time to babysit. There is too much work to do. We need someone who can work with our President and work independently within the framework of the President's goals. Hillary has proven she is not up to the task.

4) You are right that Hillary does not like being a legislator. There is not enough action there for her. She would like to administrate. OK - that means cabinet position. If I were Obama, I would take VP off the table and make it clear that it was not an option. I would tell her that she could be considered for a cabinet position. If she wants to get out of boring legislation hell, she will have to start carrying the water for Team Obama and do so with as much enthusiasm as she has campaigned in the last couple of months.

I do not think Hillary has enough delegates to put her on the ticket as VP. Obama passed her in the superdelegate count and you know it would have been much worse if not for the 100 or so Hillary got way back when everyone thought she was "inevitable." There is an anti-Clinton wing in the party. They will block any such attempt on Hillary's part to force herself on the ticket. I don't think Pelosi would stand for such a thing.

Also, she is too close to McCain. She does not and has not attacked him as a Democrat should. Obama opened up another can of whoop-ass on him in his acceptance speech and Hillary has yet to do the man serious damage. I think she is too close to him (meaning they are very good friends). This is yet another strike against her.

[FlaGranny]

29. And is Bill willing to give up his

speeches and business dealings? Is he willing to stay out of the picture? Is Hillary willing to take orders? Lots of questions for Obama to ask Clinton.

[janet118]

30. Excellent points . . .

And there are many, many more. Hatred of all things Clinton could energize lackluster Republican base. Money trail of Bill's foundation and library donors and paid speeches. The "hard working white Americans" are most likely racists. ETC.

The so-called "dream ticket" is a very bad idea.

[Veruca Salt]

33. The thing I think that is missing...

Is that in the GE there is going to be a whole lot more than just the party voting. Obama has proven to bring in the indies and moderate repubs and that has been the one thing that makes me shy away from Hillary as VP.

GE 2004 pop vote total: 121,069,054
Dem 2008 primary pop vote*: 36,153,416

*I used the largest number available in the different choices for pop vote

[tiptoe]

21. Hillary--sold out to Neocons w intentions even she fails to appreciate--cannot be trusted as VP. nt.

[ellisonz]

22. After all, Barack Obama can always get half his head blown off...

"My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. You know I just, I don't understand it,"

[FlyingSquirrel]

23. You're really good with HTML. n/t

[janetblond]

24. My PREDICTION!

The EGOMANIACAL Hillary Clinton will dominate the news for the next 3 weeks, fighting for the VP spot.
Obama/Clinton?
Great!
The victim marries the rapist.
And SHE is a character rapist of the WORST kind.

[genna]

28. That is particularly strong language. WOW! I've never quite felt this level of...

what would you call that?


I don't think HRC was nice, effective, or endearing last night but I don't think it is good to hate. Make no man or woman so strong that they can make you lose your crown and hate them.

She ain't worth it.

[KittyWampus]

31. Sorry, Hillary doesn't have the support anymore. The Clintons have arm twisted one too many times

and then held out their hands for money.

The Clintons are not wanted in DC. outside a small core.