Is she a compulsive liar, or just opportunistic?

[krkaufman]

I was startled, watching Hillary's South Dakota victory speech tonight, that she managed to start it off with a blatant lie, saying that South Dakotans had the final word on the primaries -- with Montana's polls, where she was expected to lose, yet to close.

Nothing she says can be taken at face value.

[Name removed]

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[MercutioATC]

2. Ummm...yes.

[bridgit]

3. Like Obama, she's a lawyer & politician, and those two facets are interchangeable

[democracy1st]

18. but she can lie her butt off

[bridgit]

19. Well, isn't that the plight *of* women after having bit the apple and all that...

Men don't lie their ass off, ask them they'll tell you :)

[Carolina]

27. if only lying would reduce butt size

:rofl: Then she could sell her secret to those of us who like to ____ our butts of :evilgrin:

[sandnsea]

4. Somebody should compile a list

Tonight's SD lie could be dismissed as opportunistic, but when you pile it up next to lies like sniper fire, I have to go with compulsive liar.

[AlCzervik]

5. i'll let historians figure that one out, it's over, thankfully.

[Diane R]

6. Both, and more. I honestly believe she has a serious personality disorder.

[Divernan]

10. She is the narcissist's narcissist - the next DSM edition will use her as an example

Actually, there have been many famous narcissists - but the Clintons are an extremely rare husband and wife team of narcissists.
Do narcissists like to be famous?

Answer
You bet. They adore being famous, or even notorious. This, by far, is their predominant drive. Being famous encompasses a few important functions: it endows the narcissist with power, provides him with a constant Source of Narcissistic Supply (admiration, adoration, approval, awe) and fulfils important Ego functions. The image that the narcissist projects is hurled back at him, reflected in the eyes (or in the imagined eyes) of those exposed to the celebrity or fame of the narcissist. This way he feels alive, his very existence is affirmed and it begets a sensation of clear boundaries (where the narcissist ends and the world begins).



There is a set of narcissistic behaviours typical to the pursuit of celebrity. There is almost nothing that the narcissist refrains from doing, almost no borders that he hesitates to cross to achieve renown. To him, there is no such thing as "bad publicity" � what is important is to be in the public eye. Because the narcissist equally enjoys all types of attention and likes as much to be feared as to be loved, for instance � he doesn't mind if what is published about him is wrong ("as long as they spell his name correctly"). The only bad emotional stretches are those that are endured by the narcissist during periods of lack of attention, publicity, or exposure. The narcissist then feels empty, hollowed out, negligible, humiliated, wrathful, discriminated against, deprived, neglected, treated unjustly and so on. At first, he tries to compromise and obtain attention from ever narrowing groups of reference ("supply scale down"). But the feeling that he is compromising gnaws at his anyhow fragile self-esteem. Sooner or later, the spring bursts. The narcissist plots, contrives, plans, conspires, thinks, analyses, synthesises and does whatever else is necessary to regain the lost publicity. The more he fails to secure the attention of the target group (always the largest he can access) � the more daring, eccentric and outlandish he becomes. Firm decision is transformed into resolute action and then to a panicky pattern of attention seeking behaviours.



The narcissist is not really interested in publicity per se. Using typical conversion, displacement and projection mechanisms � the narcissist always appears to be different than he is. He appears to love himself � and, really, he abhors himself. Similarly, he appears to be interested in becoming a celebrity � and, in reality, it is the REACTIONS to his fame that interest him: people watch him, notice him, talk about him, debate his actions � therefore he exists. He goes around "hunting and collecting" how the expressions on people's faces change when they notice him. He places himself in the centre of discussions, even as a figure of controversy. He constantly and recurrently pesters those nearest and dearest to him in a bid to reassure himself that he is not losing his fame, his magic touch, the attention of members of his reference group.



Truly, the narcissist is not choosy. If he can become famous as a writer � he writes, if as a businessman � he conducts business. He switches from one field to the other with ease and without remorse because in all of them he is present without conviction, bar the conviction that he must (and deserves to) get famous. He grades activities, hobbies and people not according to the pleasure that they give him � but according to their utility: can they or can't they make him known and, if so, to what extent. The narcissist is one-track minded (not to say obsessive). His is a world of black (being unknown and deprived of attention) and white (being famous and celebrated).

[Diane R]

11. Wow. They both meet the criteria, don't they?

[apocalypsehow]

7. Both. n/t.

[Name removed]

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[RiverStone]

9. She has a narcissistic personality disorder...

What a lost opportunity to unify tonight. And I even gave her the benefit of the doubt - I really thought she was shrewed enough to do it tonight. NOT!

We can't unify till she lets go - LET GO!!!!

[XemaSab]

12. Yeah

My mom, the Hillary supporter, was like WTF?

[krkaufman]

21. It was such a brazen lie that I was actually surprised (foolish me) ...

... that none of the pundits commented on it after her speech. Someone with some decent skills in multimedia could have some fun with one of Hillary's speeches, overlaying rolling counters for fibs and exaggerations as she works her way through a speech.

[woolldog]

13. it does creep me out the way she can lie like that, shade the truth,

misrepresent things. The Montana thing is a perfect example.

Very Nixon-like. *shivers*

[tiptoe]

14. It's why Randi Rhodes joked -- at a private SF comedy club gig-- about Hillary being "a whore". nt

[SoCalDem]

15. Did you notice the NEW popular vote they are brandishing?

It's morphed into "over EIGHTEEN million"...and the desk-dunderheads just let the mouthpieces keep on saying it..

In a few days THAT will somehow be "the" number..

[krkaufman]

20. Yeah, I was wondering where the "18 million" number was coming from

... but I haven't taken the time to research. I was mildly astounded that MSNBC was continually scrolling the "popular vote" tally -- without some sort of Roger Maris asterisk annotating it -- along with the delegate numbers during last night's coverage, given that the popular vote is meaningless beyond what the Clinton campaign is able to spin -- though, apparently, some of the media have bought-into the spin.

The media are not our best and brightest, and certainly not our most courageous.

[WeDidIt]

16. Everybody wants to know what Hillary wants

She wants to be president, DAMNIT, and if she can't have it there's no way in hell she'll help Obama get it. If fact, she'll do everything she can to destroy his chances.

[ShortnFiery]

17. Both HRC and her husband are BOTH. Winning is the ONLY thing for God Almighty Political POWER. n/t

[vaberella]

22. As a politician she's both.

More so opportunistic. She's a favorite and there's undeniably a legacy of her family in the White House but also the democratic party, not to mention she almost got the Presumptive Nominee title. She's that one step closer to making history herself and if Obama chooses her as VP she will have made history. In any event, she has to think about where she'll be in the end of all this and if she does give up the mantle, which has a massive backing and following, she needs something in return. I commend her on that although I find it disgustingly divisive because it's taking a lot of time.

[Carolina]

23. She's all of the above

with sociopathic, narcissistic added.

[butterfly77]

24. Both..

[wiggs]

25. I don't buy the "deranged" "insane" or compulsive disorder memes. She doesn't

look insane, psychopathic, or blind. That's too easy and doesn't really make sense. Maybe, instead, we should be more worried about what last night really means. Was it a clue to cards she's holding? Does it mean she's interested in McCain's VP, or an independent run, or that she has some scandal up her sleeve...all of which she could not very well talk about last night? What is really up with delaying some announcement just a couple more days?

Something here doesn't add up

[donheld]

26. Both