Since this is not a religious place, I think people are missing something re: Obama and his church

[theboss]

Leaving a church is a life-altering decision. I've gone through it myself and I've seen it happen a few times.

Friendships end. Neighbors stop speaking to one another. People cry. Christmases are ruined. I would say in some cases it is more traumatic than the ending of a marriage. (Marriages can end after six months; some people leave churches after 40 or 50 years).

To a middle American, leaving this church is going to send two messages. Hopefully, it will be viewed as Obama wants it to be - he is leaving because the rhetoric does not match his own.

The bigger danger is that it is viewed as political expediency over faith. That could be a problem - even with black voters, who are far and away the most "religious" voters in the country.

This is going to be tricky.

[TeamsterDem]

1. Very true

I think this is a danger to him. I'm not sure if it's got legs or not but you're right, it's potentially bad for him depending on how it's viewed.

[theboss]

3. Hopefully...people will view it as a personal choice (as it should be viewed)

But, I am sure someone is going to say, "If he will abandon his church, he will abandon anyone...."

This is just such an awful thing to occur in public.

[TeamsterDem]

7. I agree

with your assessment and your hopes (that it be viewed as a personal choice). I suppose we'll have to wait and see how it comes out in the wash.

I do think that he has less to lose even if it's viewed badly by some considering that he's not a Republican. But it is potentially damaging so I'm hopeful people can react to it logically without relying on the media for interpretation.

[Cheap_Trick]

21. and if he'd stayed

they'd have been saying "how can he stay..."

[theboss]

23. It's a tough situation

It's really a damned if you do/damned if you don't type of thing.

[uponit7771]

2. The church was recieving death threats and he didn't want the new pastor to look behind his back

...every time he said something.

I don't exactly agree with the reasons but I wish he'd put it in a better context, he's not handling the church thing to the best political advantage but I think that's what some people like about him.

Also, it's taken a toy away from the GOP but only after 9 out of 10 Americans know he's not a Muslim.

[theboss]

6. It's clear that he is not a Bill Clinton in that he can't turn "scandals" to his advantage

And for that, I am thankful. I am tired of cynical politicians.

It's just I wonder if all the non-religious folks here actually realize the type of personal minefield this kind of decision is.

People hold their home churches to be sacred. And they understand that, yes, sometimes people leave. It's just rare to see it done this quickly and this publicly.

[Tippy]

32. But the new Pastor should have been covering Obama's back also....

[AtomicKitten]

4. Of course it's political and there's nothing wrong with that.

Obama wants the parasitic media to climb down out of his and his church's ass.

[Blue_In_AK]

5. I said something about political expediency yesterday

and nearly got my head bitten off. If I see it that way (and I'm a very liberal and understanding person), I'm sure there are millions out there who see it the same. You are correct that it will be tricky. My anger is more at the stupid priest, not so much Jeremiah Wright because his sermons that got everyone worked up were pre-candidacy times, if I'm understanding correctly. This priest knew damn well what he was doing, and I think it's inexcusable.

[theboss]

8. I'm just not sure why Obama has to apologize for a guest speaker

My church has had any number of lunatics give guest sermons over the years. We've had ministers tell us to stop celebrating Halloween. We've had ministers tell the woman that they should sit and be quiet during sermons. It happens all the time in churches.

[Blue_In_AK]

27. I agree with that.

I think it's a shame that religion has to enter into politics at all, since to me it is, or should be, a very private matter. I agree with you that parishioners seldom agree with everything that's spoken from the pulpit even by their own ministers, much less visitors. We have so many serious issues to contend with as a nation -- a nation which is by no means all Christian -- that it's frustrating that we have to spin our wheels discussing this stuff that's really not relevant. I myself would welcome an atheist candidate, or at least one who is agnostic.

[Tippy]

31. .I agree also...

I know they will miss their Church family, but he really had no choice when he used what the Priest his "personal friend" said, apparently it went over the Pastors head when he rebuked Wright. Obama loves his church and his church family, he would not have hurt them for anything if they had not been ignorant of just where it was going to end up.......

[rosesaylavee]

9. I see it more as sacrifice

From past experience, you say you know what this is like. You don't do it lightly. I don't see that he had any other choice given the circumstances surrounding the media circus and the intense scrutiny of the congregation and those who were being tended by the congregation.

I am just sick that he had to do it. Stupid media. That religious freedom deal we were promised as part of the American citizenship no longer applies apparently.

[theboss]

11. I think there may have been a better way than quitting

Simply not attending for the remainder of the campaign. Refusing to answer questions. I don't know.

I'm pretty sure the media attention is going to continue regardless.

[rosesaylavee]

29. Media attention for him will of course continue

but less attention paid to the church. Within a month, it will be old news.

From what I understand, his concern was the over-the-top attention given to those listed in the weekly bulletin - those church members who were on prayer lists or shutins or in the hospital were being contacted by the media. Why, I don't know. It makes no sense to me. I don't see how it could be viewed as anything other than harrassment.

[ellacott]

18. Sacrifice is a good word n/t

[FSogol]

10. Don't you think he would join a new church when he moves to

1600 PA Avenue for the next 8 years?

It can only be a benefit for him. First he can avoid controversy at Trinity. Second, he can visit a new church every week until election day and pick up even more support.

[qijackie]

12. It doesn't help that he said he'd be selecting another church early next year.

[ellacott]

13. I agree that it is life altering

I left a church after 18yrs. You are so correct about friends and neighbors not speaking to you.

I believe if people honestly listen to him they would realize that it wasn't totally a political move. I'm sure he cares about some of the people there and to know that the media would get the sick and shut list and call those members is awful. The congregation also said that they were beginning to be suspicious of visitors, wondering if this person was just part of the media looking for something to use against them.

Many if the blacks that I've talked to along with reading message boards and listenting to black talk radio seems to show that they are very understanding of what he had to do.

[barack the house]

14. Regardless of church I doubt they will abandon him for HIllary now...

Everyone knows they were terrorizing that church.

[theboss]

15. I'm not talking about the church voting for Hillary

That's a fairly ridiculous thing to be concerned about.

I'm talking about people with experience with "church breakups" viewing this in a negative light.

[WeDidIt]

16. IT is the most deeply personal ane excruciating decision any family has to make

and it's sad that the media forced Obama to make it front and center for the world to watch

[Shakespeare]

17. I've almost posted this same thing all weekend. I've been through a church break-up, too.

It is an extraordinarily painful thing to do, and I know it couldn't have been easy for the Obamas to do. Hopefully, voters who are religiously active will understand that from their own experience, and the latter will be true.

[hfojvt]

19. I am perhaps as religious as anyone here

and I would not see it that way. Many people in America are mobile and leave churches all the time, because they leave towns all the time. I am the same age as Obama, almost, and since graduating college I have lived, and gone to churches in Utah, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa and Kansas. I count two moves for my older sister, 3 for my younger sister, 5 for my brother, and 3 for my youngest sister.

Even when I stayed in the same town for 8 years, the social network was not that strong. For the most part, church 'friends' were Sunday friends. They ask about your week when you see them at church, expect a generic answer, and you don't see them the rest of the week. Part of that may be because I don't have a wife who would be more adept at creating a social network.

Barack certainly has not lived in Chicago full time since 2004 when he was elected to the Senate. The family is anticipating spending the next 8 years living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue so hopefully they would be leaving the church in seven months anyway. They would, however, be leaving on better terms.

As another DUer wrote, it's too bad he could not have seen this coming way back when he was elected to the Senate or when he bought his house. Then he could have done it for geographical reasons and not have the same albatross.

[theboss]

20. Well, there is a difference between "leaving" and "break-up"

If Obama was simply in a church and DC and had been since 2004, he could say "Well, I left that church 4 years ago."

It's clearly still his "home church" and therefore, this is a breakup.

[JerseygirlCT]

22. Completely agree with you

It's nearly like leaving family. It can be that hard.

I think he had to do it, both for himself and for the church, but it's going to be tricky, indeed. And I feel for him and his family.

[On the Road]

24. He Timed it Well

to minimize the media impact. By now, it's old news.

[Westegg]

25. A church is not your faith, or your relationship to God...

...it is an institution, a civic building, and a congregation. When I was a child, my mother pulled my family out of two Presbyterian churches for what she saw as un-Christian behavior on the part of those churches regarding their treatment of the head ministers. In the first case, the minister had an adulteress affair. In the second case, the minister had a drinking problem. Both ministers were swiftly and summarily fired, once their issues became public knowledge. My mother saw this as hypocritical, un-Christian behavior. (That whole "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" business.) It took her all of 30 seconds to explain this to me when I was eight years old, and later twelve years old. I said, "Oh yeah. I get it." Because my mother was right. So we found another church. The best one yet. The one I remember.

When I pray, it's between me and my Higher Power. I don't have to be in a church to do it, but if I care to, there are half a dozen churches within walking distance of my front door. They are swell, and it's often nice to hear the old hymns again.

The fact that we are (I hope) going to elect a president who doesn't at the moment have a specific building he enters every Sunday doesn't give me the slightest bit of pause. Who is the candidate my mother would vote for, if she were alive? Obama. Without question. Who is the candidate who is the least hypocritical? Obama. Without question.

[Skidmore]

26. Yes, the disruption of the community is difficult and I understand

that, having left a church myself in the past. I'm not very enamoured of organized religion and haven't been for some time. However, I think we need to make it clear that we need separation of church and state to be realized, and the point can be made on both sides of the aisle--Rs and Ds. The public square is for civic discourse; the church for all things theological.

[OzarkDem]

28. Religion doesn't belong in political campaigns or governing

Democrats should know better than to mimic the GOP in using religion to sway voters.

[theboss]

30. How can you eliminate it completely?

I don't think decisions in governing should be based on religious beliefs. But to think that you can cut off a part of a person's personality that severely is ridiculous.

JFK did not take orders from the Pope as President. But being Catholic was a large part of who he was.

Jimmy Carter....well...Jimmy probably did make decisions based on his religious belief.

Bill Clinton's religion was a large part of who he was.

The civil rights movement was birthed in the churches.

Just saying "religion doesn't belong" is a slogan. It has no practicality.

[LiberalAndProud]

33. The microscope has been removed.

Every nuance, every reaction, every cough, every smile was subject to being posted on the nets as long as Obama remained a member there. I have never seen anything like it. I find it beyond revolting that private worship (not Obama's alone, but every congregant in that church) has been exploited for political purposes. It is one of the most vile things that has happened so far in this campaign.

Politically expedient or not, it was the right thing to do for the sake of his church.