So, I'm listening to NPR this morning

[madwivoter]

And they were discussing the happenings over the weekend. The Puerto Rico results and the rules and bylaws committee meeting on Saturday.

Hillary Clinton won the Puerto Rico primary by a landslide. The rules and bylaws committee decided that it was appropriate to seat all of the delegates but only give them a half vote each. Whether that's really fair or not is not up to me, but they have to make a decision and now it's finally done. Thank god.

Now to my point. Did I really hear Hillary Clinton supporters crying when they left the meeting? Did I really hear Hillary Clinton supporters chanting "McCain"? I did. I feel for Hillary Clinton supporters, one of the few options remaining were that they would get a better ruling more in favor of Clinton after the meeting Saturday.

I've been an Obama supporter for months now, but I'll tell you one thing for sure, if the shoe was on the other foot, I'd fall in line. Right fucking now. Yep, I'm finally pissed off. I'm embarrassed for Hillary Clinton's campaign and for lots of Hillary Clinton supporters who will support the Democratic candidate no matter who it is.

Clinton supporters need to take a step back (and another step back) and look at the big picture. Look at how it will end up historically if your candidate takes it to the convention. If it goes to convention, it's over. The historic time our party has experienced will be minimized by yet another Republican in the White House, which means another 4 years of W's policies.

I will not ask any Clinton supporters to switch sides. I will not beg them to support Obama. I will ask that if you really feel that strongly about your candidate, and if her name is not going to be on the ballot come November, just take a tour back over the last 7+ years and the hardships our country (and other countries) have endured at the hand of the Bush administration.

That's it. That's all I ask. Just think about it.

:rant:

[Adelante]

1. Recommended

:kick:

[saltpoint]

2. I'd like to second WesDem's recommendation.

[BrklynLib at work]

3. As a former Edwards supporer, and current Obama supporter, I would DEFINITELY have gotten behind

Clinton if she won the nomination.
What is happening is EXACTLY what we criticised the Repukes for...putting personal desires, and "party", or one's own branch of the party, above what is best for the country.

There could never be a worse case of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face than for Clinton supporters to vote for McCain rather than Obama, because she did not get the nomination. That kind of thinking is worse than shameful..it is the kind of thing that repukes do!!!!

[patrice]

4. Hillary supporters can stay Hillary supporters after the GE . . . Forever, if they wish. nt

[midnight]

5. madwivoter several months ago when things were not so

optimistic for Senator Obama, His wife was asked if she would support Hillary. Now keep in mind, HIllary was the only other Democratic candidate. The senators wife said she wasn't sure. In all fairness to the Senators wife, these races get very personal, and much has been exchanged between candidates. I feel it could be the same here. This is personal. Your closing paragraph says you will not ask Clinton supporters to switch sides, or beg them to support Obama. On the contrary, you and all of us here have the last 7+ years blazoned in our memories. We cannot afford to be so indifferent to our fellow Democrats. All hands on deck folks. We need every vote. I will beg for all Hillary votes, and or Obama votes. This race is about the White House. It is bigger than the two candidates.

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

10. That's obvious spin and misinterpretation.

When Michelle was asked if she would "support" the Hillary campaign, she took the question to mean if she would take off from her job and work the campaign trail. Being that Michelle was reluctant to get on the "Barack for President" bandwagon because of her desire for her children's privacy, it's not hard to imagine her not quitting her job to "support" Hillary.

In no way did she mean that she wouldn't vote for her.

[madwivoter]

26. It's not indifference

I won't back down on that point. I will not beg for Hillary Clinton supporters to vote for Obama. They are smart enough to see what the choices are and what the consequences will be by their own action or inaction.

Personal? Yes, I'll grant you that. Is there also a possibility that there's a level of selfishness there too?

[krkaufman]

30. So you know exactly what Michelle Obama meant when she gave that answer?

You're saying that Michelle Obama was saying that she wouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton? Did Michelle Obama actually respond in the negative or did she reply that she would need to think about it? Or is it possible that Michelle Obama hadn't yet pondered how much time she would put into actively traveling the country and campaigning on behalf of someone other than her husband?

You have *NO* idea what Michelle Obama was thinking, however much her response has been twisted into whatever meaning is convenient for a given argument.

As for begging, resources are critical and only so much time and money can be spent seeking votes. For some of these people, begging will do no good. Someone from the Clinton campaign is going to need to come forward and say they've been bullshitting their followers for months, and that Obama is actually a pretty damn good candidate... better even than Hillary.... and a damn sight better than McCain.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

6. Let's get real......if the shoe REALLY was "on the other foot": you would be doing the exact same !

[Fly by night]

7. I like your sig line. Is that original or a quote? If the latter, who said it?

I have a few members of the next generation of my family with whom I'd like to use that line.

[Fly by night]

8. Never mind. I found the source (Maya Angelou) on your profile.

You might include that attribution with your sig line -- it's a great quote.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

12. thank you and I did included attribution but, I guess I exceeded DU limits

[krkaufman]

31. Personally, I think that tag line is a crock.

My 17-year-old nephew has demonstrated a great deal more wisdom than most Clinton "supporters" I've seen, of late. And certainly a helluva lot more than dear Harriet.

I'm not clear on how generalizing across all youth is any better than generalizing across gender or race. Please enlighten me.

[Fly by night]

32. There's no generalization in the sig line that I see. Please re-read it.

Ms. Angelou refers to a "young cynic" in the singular. Now, if she had said, "You can always tell a Republican -- you just can't tell them much", THAT would be generalization (though probably pretty accurate).

Interesting sig line and atavar you've got, though. Are you planning to support and vote for McLame this fall? If so, you just may be in ther wrong place (but you may not want me to tell you that).

BTW, who is Harriet?

[krkaufman]

33. No, I read it properly. But thanks.

Unfortunately, sig lines are off, at the moment, but I recall the quote contrasting a difference... between a young cynic and a young person (not a cynic)...

ah, of course, google...

There is nothing so pitiful as a young cynic because he has gone from knowing nothing to believing nothing.

To whom exactly is Angelou referring when she says "from knowing nothing"? A young person, of course, before becoming cynical, generalizing that young people don't know anything. (But feel free to make the case that Angelou's point is that cynicism can only derive from ignorance.)

> who is Harriet?

Harriet Christian.


Re: my icon and signature... If they're out-of-place, then so is Sen. Clinton and her supporters. Her words, not mine.

[Fly by night]

34. If I said, "there's something sad about an old racist", would I be calling all old people racists?

Your logic is about one large fries shy of a happy meal.

Most young people I know are not cynical. But then I don't know many young people who believe they have figured it all out. Visit this old DU thread where I talk about the kind of young people I am privileged to know (and be related to):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3748433

Scroll down to comment #29. (Prepare to be envious.)

And your comment about Hillary supporters not belonging at DU because I asked you why you have a McLame avatar and a sig line endorsing him also is worthy of a medal at the next logic-leaping Olympics. Somehow, it fits with the rest of your package.

Have a nice life. Really.

[krkaufman]

35. That most young people are not cynical -- or know nothing ...

... was precisely the point of my earlier post. But Ms Angelou seems to think (according to that quote, though I'm sure she was just trying to be clever) that a young person, absent cynicism (i.e. believes nothing) knows nothing. Her words, not mine.

And your taking my avatar and sig line as an "endorsement" of McCain is exactly the point. I don't endorse the warmonger (it's not exactly a flattering image of McCain, eh?), but Hillary certainly did. Both are a reminder of just some of what Hillary's done this campaign, putting herself ahead of the Democratic Party.

As for "belonging at DU"... *you* suggested that I might not belong here if I believed what the sig line said. But those are Hillary's words, not mine, and Hillary and any supporter who hasn't denounced her for uttering those words should be hitting the exit duor long before me.

[Youphemism]

9. Uh, no. Not at all.

You must not have been paying attention to the OP. Look at what Bush has done. McCain will do more of that.

Dead bodies have been piling up. You really think I would vote for more of that just because my favorite didn't make it?

Think again.

[not_too_L8]

13. Vote Democratic K&R

[indio55555]

14. If the shoe was on the other foot.....

Obama wouldn't even have made it this far.
Hillary would have declared victory already.
There would be no talk of "going to the convention" from the Obama camp.

[BrklynLib at work]

16. Absolutely not.. I would NEVER vote for a repuke, espeically one who would certainly

continue the BushCo policies into the distant future.
I love my country too much for that.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

20. nor I ......but the point was the "protesting"....

[madwivoter]

28. Protesting is powerful and necessary

It's the message that I have a problem with. The message that Hillary Clinton supporters are going to vote for McCain.

edit: typo

[madwivoter]

24. Nope. You are wrong.

Completely and utterly wrong. I would be supporting the Democratic candidate, no question about it.

[underpants]

11. Who is it that is a "cult" again???

I did catch that on CNN this weekend. They got the sweetest deal they could hope to get out of it and it just tore their hearts out it did.

[Youphemism]

15. Geraldine Ferraro: "I keep getting emails from women who won't vote for Obama"

She was playing to the Fox News crowd again, deliberately discouraging women and "Reagan democrats" from supporting Obama in the General Election.

(She was probably just there to get Sean Hannity to autograph her copy of Rush Limbaugh's autobiography.)

[Fly by night]

19. Ferraro talks out of her ass. Vitter ought to lend her a diaper.

[groovedaddy]

17. This points to why this needs to be resolved BEFORE the convention

Then we'll find out (if you haven't already decided) what HRC is really made of. Taking this all the way to the Convention to decide CAN NOT help our chances in November. Wednesday morning will tell the tale.

[dailykoff]

18. NPR is unbelievably annoying.

To hear their "reporting" you would think the primary was still tied up, that Hillary and Obama are locked in mortal combat, and that Hillary had a hope in hell of being anywhere near the Democratic ticket this fall.

It isn't, they aren't, and she doesn't. :shrug:

[Tatiana]

21. It is like watching your family members act piss ass drunk in front of the nation.

Very embarrassing and whoever organized that protesting mess deserves two knocks upside the head.

[screembloodymurder]

22. Hillary supporters have become irrational.

Some will never admit that their candidate has lost and they will continue to deny reality even after Obama's nomination. For this reason, I ask that all who enter the convention be required to pledge their allegiance to Obama. If you can't support Obama, I will accept the renunciation of Hillary and her followers!

[smoogatz]

23. It's the DLC's last gasp.

All they've got now is empty threats and concern trolling. It does appear that they'd willingly split the party if they thought it gave them some political advantage: it's all about retaining control of the party and whatever power accrues from that. Disgusting.

[the_real_38]

25. Well, it's worth bearing in mind....

... that the nomination contest isn't quite over yet. And it won't really be over until the nominee gives his/her acceptance speech at the convention. And the superdelegates have a lot to think about - the popular vote argument, what happened with FL and MI, Clinton's resounding success in the big blue states and the key swing states.

So really, none of us should be jumping to conclusions about how the other side should behave once this nomination is resolved. It's been a fine contest, and it could still go either way.

[Zodiak]

27. No it cannot go either way; she has lost

You would do yourself and the rest of us a tremendous favor if you could start wrapping your head around that.

And it has not been a "fine contest", either...it has been the single most destructive Democratic primary I have ever seen.

[LanternWaste]

29. I'll happily vote for whomever wins the nomination...

Although I voted for Clinton in my primary, I'll happily vote for whomever wins the nomination as will I expect, most Democrats.

As for her supporters chanting "McCain", I'd bet five bucks there are just as many Obama supporters who would do the precise same thing were the situations reversed-- not that I honestly believe the supporters were actually doing that... my father once told me that he could hear "I buried Paul" on one of the tracks of the Beatles' White Album.

That being said, I think that anyone on DU who vows they'd vote for the GOP nominee should their candidate not win, isn't really a happy member of our little e-community here-- simply a disruptor.

[demo dutch]

36. Learn that, fighting at the convention is nothing new, '68 (wow!!) '72 & 80 pretty ugly , Mondale's

tactics in '88 on selecting a VP and even JKF wasn't without in-fighting.