Baby boomers are afraid to fall in love with a hope candidate again.

[ClassWarrior]

This is how a friend of mine interpreted Hilly's RFK assassination comment. That many baby boomers who were old enough to be historical witnesses to the deaths of JFK, RFK, MLK, Malcolm and the rest were traumatized enough that they, perhaps subconsciously, fear falling in love with another hope candidate like Bobby. And that HRC's ghastly asassination comment reflected and amplified that fear.

I thought it was a plausible enough interpretation to at least float it here. Your thoughts?

NGU.

[zanne]

1. I just think of it as my youthful idealism.

When I was in my 20's, I thought that society could only progress and become more tolerant. I never, ever imagined that we'd atttempt to turn back the clock.

I'm an Obama supporter now and I've been told that it's naive to think that he can win the presidency. But I'm older now and wiser and I see his upcoming victory as a long-delayed development. We've been through the fire. Now, it's real.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. what you said

[liberalmuse]

10. I love the way you put that!

I was only a few months old when Kennedy was assassinated, and too young to know what was going on when MLK and RFK were ripped from us. As I've learned more about these men, I find it extremely painful to think what might have been, with RFK especially, since he hadn't even begun to reach his potential like the other two. And he had so much potential.

Like you, I never imagined that we would turn back the clock like we have in the past several years, especially since we simply could not afford to do anything but move forward. I've become incredibly cynical, to the point where an inspirational speech makes me shrug. I've heard those nice feely-good speeches before (Reagan's come to mind), but they were just words, nothing more. This is why Barack Obama was pretty far down on my list of choices. Slowly, after much scrutiny, I've begun to realize that this man is the real deal, and his arrival is indeed long overdue.

I agree with the original post, I am apprehensive that the powers that be will take yet another great man from us. This is why I thought Hillary's comment was very inappropriate. She said what we all dread, but it's the context in which she chose to use the scenario which was particularly tasteless. She's sticking around, because, "you never know..." "You never know when the rich uncle will die and leave me some money." Wrong.

[iconicgnom]

29. my youthful idealism has matured and deepened

as has that of most older progressives that I know. I've learned more about how progressive ideals have slowly developed over centuries, and how there will never be a "solution", only a movement -- and I've become totally convinced that this movement is now permanently a (or the) major part of the defining characteristics of civilized humanity. A definition having global reach thru' the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.

I liken this movement to the development of an ecology, rather than the motion of a simple physical mass. In that sense, I believe that the human social ecology is still very young, yet healthy and flourishing and able to sustain itself through anything but a global cataclysm. It can sustain itself through even severe hits just because it's a global multicultural movement and as such is led by the best of us. The best of us are the true progressive (rather than merely military) heroes and heroines, the most brilliant of us and the most empathetic of us.

Set against that movement, the Reagan->Bush setbacks have been but a blip.

I consider Obama's candidacy in this light. His brilliance and empathy, his intellectual leadership, is mistaken by right-wing reactionaries as "elitism" or, as a right-wing talking point currently being heavily played by reactionaries in GD:P, "a messiah-complex". Those who're inspired by his leadership are described as "cult-like" and so on in that pattern typical of reactionaries oblivious, whether temporarily or permanently, to the global progressive message.

I, too, think Obama will win. I have very few doubts on that score.
I consider those on DU who taunt us that he'll lose to be Republicans.
I consider those on DU who taunt with negative right-wing Republican talking points to be Republicans, and I don't think they're taunting Obama and Obama's supporters, but the progressive movement.

[ClassWarrior]

32. Well said. Thanks.

NGU.

[Muttocracy]

2. I expect they're pretty cynical by now; I do remember blacks with that fear months ago. nt

[AllentownJake]

4. The fear is still very much there

I had to talk to many African American and White potential supporters who were worried for his saftey when I was phone banking and knocking on doors in PA.

That's why I was so mad at her. Those people are already scared all she is doing is fanning the flames and now creating conspiracy theories.

[ClassWarrior]

65. .

[pocoloco]

3. Absolutely

No need to remind us three times!

Just be forever thankful that there are a few who dare to take a stand!!!

[Uben]

6. Never entered my mind

Every candidate is a "hope candidate". Obama is nothing new to this. He is our hope because he is a democrat, and we so desperately need a change of direction in this country. I think all of the dem candidates represented change from what we have seen the past 7 years. Any one of them could have done the job well. If we are fortunate enough to get a stronger dem congress, maybe we can actually change some things this time. It's long overdue.

As a boomer, I want to see sweeping reform of the healthcare industry. It is so corrupt and outrageously expensive compared to the rest of the world. The insurance companies and corporations have run rough-shod over it for the last twenty years!

[ClassWarrior]

8. Yes, they're all the same. Back when Dukakis spoke to a crowd of 75,000 supporters...

Oh wait. That was Obama.

:rofl:

NGU.

[LaurenG]

7. I'm a baby boomer and an Obama supporter

and her comment sent me into a nose dive. I don't remember being that angry about anything.

Every time we get close enough to a candidate that is "outside" corporate thought processes they do tend to end up gone.

I don't buy into the "old ways" of playing politics. It really is time to move on, even from the Clinton's. They are the old era and it's time for the new era to begin.

[BlooInBloo]

9. It's not even remotely plausible, since there are.. like.. almost no voters *left*.

[Perry Logan]

11. I wonder who President McCain's VP will be.

Thanks, Obammers!

http://www.correntewire.com/obama_golf

[ClassWarrior]

15. Wishful thinking by the hopeless, obviously.

NGU.

[marions ghost]

12. some truth to it IMO

I wonder if fear of "hope" candidates made some people go for Hillary...because she seemed more "status quo" (the status quo before BFEE) and predictable. 90's nostalgia.

There's also the trauma of Bushite Rule --people have been so beaten down they can't do a leap of faith to a "hope" candidate. And therefore went for Hillary as the safe choice.

By the same token those baby boomers who have gone for Obama may have done so with very guarded feelings...of not getting hurt again...supporting him but not hoping for too much. It would explain the visceral reaction to the assassination comments--ie. how dare you drag us back to those awful days, with the implication that we can never do any better. She took fragile "hopes" and dashed them in one instant. By doing that, she betrayed her own cohort--the boomers--whether they supported her candidacy or not.

She betrayed us all.

[CoffeeCat]

13. That is exactly why Hillary said her RFK comment....

This is such an important point.

Hillary's RFK comment wasn't "wishful thinking" about Obama getting knocked off. She wasn't suggesting that she was staying in the
race, just in case something bad happens to Obama, as happened to RFK.

Hillary said that RFK assassination talking point at least on three separate occasions. When asked to justify staying in the race, she has
repeated the same thing--Bill winning CA in JUNE, and Bobby Kennedy being in the race until June, until he was assassinated. She mentions
the "assassination" every time.

This is a talking point. Let's say that again. This is a talking point.

We all need to ask...why didn't Hillary just mention that Bill and RFK were in the race until June? Why mention the
assassination?

This is very calculated. Again, it's a talking point that was crafted and discussed around a big table.

Like you said, she's injecting FEAR and DOUBT into Obama's candidacy by bringing up assassination. Many people have equated Obama
with Robert Kennedy. He is a hope candidate, as you said--a true Progressive, just like Bobby.

The bottom line is that Hillary was using the shock and trauma of RFK's assassination TO LEVERAGE HERSELF AND HARM OBAMA.

This really needs to be understood. She's depraved. She wasn't wishing for something bad to happen to Obama. She was doing something
worse. She purposely interjected the pain of RFK's assassination into a talking point, with the express purpose of making people afraid
to hope again--and go with the safer alternative--which she considers to be HERSELF.

All of the "She's waiting around for Obama to be assassinated!" hysteria is not only inaccurate, but it misses the truth about Hillary
and that talking point--which she has repeated at least three times.

[Swamp Rat]

14. "Hillary was using the shock and trauma of RFK's assassination TO LEVERAGE HERSELF AND HARM OBAMA"

That is it in a nutshell, and one reason she is unfit for office.

[Saturday]

16. "Hillary's RFK comment wasn't "wishful thinking" about Obama getting knocked off."

That's total bullshit.

[EFerrari]

28. I think that's right. It's always about the manipulation with her, anyway.

Maybe all politicians aim to manipulate in some way. But, she goes down roads no one should take. This feels worse than trying to scare people about terror attacks unless you knew someone who died on 9/11.

[K Gardner]

42. BINGO ! This is exactly what I think, as well. She was playing the FEAR card once again..

not to Obama, but to his supporters and the SDs. There had to be a reason (logical to THEM) they penned this talking point and repeated it. And it was just "a reminder". A little something to knock the scab off, especially for her "older voters".. just in case they might be tempted to stray over to a candidate who might leave them, abandon them, once again.

I never thought she wished him harm or was suggesting anyone harm him. It was political fear-mongering, ala George Bush/Karl Rove.

It was no accident, no misspeak.. she wasn't "tired". She was a Clinton.

[rug]

17. What's love got to do with politics?

[ClassWarrior]

19. Wow, you summed up the HRC campaign in seven words.

NGU.

[rug]

20. The converse must also be true.

That's only 6 words.

[ClassWarrior]

22. At least you're not burdened by coherence.

:rofl:

NGU.

[rug]

24. My sympathies for your comprehension difficulties.

:hug:

[crankychatter]

18. "Dear God.... they're going to KILL them ALL!"

My best friend, ex-GF is an AA woman.... we spoke last night... she was six when Bobby got shot

She doesn't want Obama to run. She doesn't want him as president. She sees his family... his lovely daughters... the love in his wife's eyes...

She doesn't believe for ONE MINUTE that he will be allowed to live...at first she had dozens of reasons... all political... she REALLY KNOWS her Constitution and her history... tough arguing with her...

But I finally learned she REALLY, wants to protect him

Last night she told me about being a little girl in a very vocal, and political family... her older siblings and cousins rioting... white people were rioting too... Panther recruitment going UP... the fear, horror and rage in her family's eyes...

She told me even as a little girl, she was severely traumatized. She said that no one should invalidate her trauma from these events just because she was a little girl.

Her mother bought a tapestry of JFK, MLK and RFK. It hung on the family wall for many years. Her younger brother's middle name is "K" after ALL of these fallen hereos. No name, just the letter "K."

She remembers the cries of anguish... "Dear God. They're going to KILL them ALL!"

She said to me last night. "All these young people should be ALLOWED to hope. America can't stand another assassination right now. It will kill what is left of her soul."

[left is right]

31. i am an older white woman

and I sympathize with your friend's feelings. It has been a constant worry for me, too. But to live without any possibility of change is far worse. So I am voting for BO and I will pray everyday that he is President that God will be merciful to this nation and protect him from harm

[K Gardner]

43. When I was phone-banking for Obama in Memphis, I cannot tell you how many times I

heard this from African American voters that I spoke to. It shocked me, really, how many came out and just said: "I'm afraid he's going to be killed, Like Martin and Bobby." That was, what.. February. I suppose they may have grown a bit braver in the months since.

And now.. BAM..Hillary pulls the proverbial trigger on their deeply-rooted fears once again, and starts them bleeding.

[stellanoir]

21. I agree with your friend totally and was about to start a thread in the astro

forum elucidating similar generational tendencies.

Beyond that I'm reminded of one of my new favorite quotations: "Mechanistic reductionism often masquerades as maturity."

In this case it's more cynicism.

[truedelphi]

36. Whose quotation is that??

It is awesome!!

[stellanoir]

37. It's from the author of this book.

http://www.cosmosandpsyche.com/

I have the book but have barely started it. It being gardening season and all.

I heard him on this show http://www.visionaryactivism.com/ several months ago, am not sure I got the quotation verbatim, as I was in a bit of a rush when I posted it and didn't check my notes, so it may be paraphrased slightly but it's fairly close and is the gist of what he said.

Glad you liked it.

One only needs to look at how we've digressed since the alleged "grown ups" have been in charge to know that they are thoroughly unenlightened.

Then again, never mind mechanistic reductionism, these bozos pull facts out of their nether regions and insist their detractors are far too reality based.

Still I long to transcend dualistic approaches and much prefer magical thinkers who base their thinking on influences of which all too many are unaware, though have been measured and interpreted throughout recorded history.

The Neocons are drawing exclusively from blatantly obvious stuff like greed, self interest, and lust for power. They manipulate things to arrive upon a place of their own further self aggrandizement only. Ughhh

That's never gonna help the collective for sure.

[Radical Activist]

23. One of her campaign themse is to stoke fear and insecurity

because that causes people to want a familiar leader with more experience. Yes, you're closer to understanding why she said it.

[OzarkDem]

25. Got a "hope" candidate already, thanks

Its Hillary Clinton.

As for "falling in love", if you mean feeling passionate about a candidate, you're wrong. Hillary supporters feel very strongly about her candidacy (I guess you're going to call the women among us "lesbians" now :rofl:)

One of the problems of being young is not understanding or misinterpreting how other people think. Its ok, you'll grow out of it.

[ClassWarrior]

26. Bless you for calling me young.

One of the problems of being arrogant is sticking one's foot in one's own big mouth. :rofl:

NGU.

[marions ghost]

30. and she spreads hope

...how?

By proving to be as conniving and cut-throat as the Rethuglicans?

:shrug:

She could have chosen the higher road and in my opinion she'd have improved her chances against Obama by doing so. Her supporters would have respected that, right? But her whole campaign played on fear and
negativity because it was those kind of voters she wanted to reach. It's a case of overkill that backfired. And also they underestimated the widespread distaste for Rethug politics after Bu$hco.

She had a choice.

Anyone still supporting her doesn't want to see the truth of how they've been bamboozled. We need to restore a sense of public trust--insuring that candidates don't sink to the level of the neocons EVER again. HRC tactics betray all of us because they fly in the face of what we thought were progressive values. Hillary Clinton's campaign insults all Democrats. I never supported her but I certainly hoped for better for her than this.

The mud is going to be hard to scrape off.

[nichomachus]

34. As long as you define "hope" as "more of the same" you're right

[FlaGranny]

27. This all reminds me when

Ted Kennedy was running. I just knew if he got the nomination or looked like he would get it, that he would be assassinated. This is all really bringing back memories. I DO REMEMBER the feeling - "Oh god, they're going to kill them all." One of my first thoughts about Obama was a nagging fear for him. Every time an inspirational leader tries to dig us out of the "dark ages" it has not been "healthy" for them.

I am not pleased with Hillary for bring this up.

[Howler]

33. Hey I'm a female that was born in 1959

And after my candidate Kucinich dropped out I became a Obama supporter.Alot of Boomer's are Obama supporters!
We are just not yelling at the top of our lungs about it. But then we don't have too. We are still changing society. We are just a little quieter about it now......Or insidious and sneaky !!! LOL!!!Take your pick.
:hippie:

[progressoid]

35. Meh.

That might be true for some, but I know plenty of boomers that haven't hesitated to support Obama.
However it wasn't really because of 'LOVE' or 'HOPE', more that they actually like the candidate.

[WillyT]

38. Boomer For Obama Here !!! - K & R !!!

JFK killed when I was in the 3rd Grade.

MLK and RFK killed when I was in the 7th Grade.

And I am NOT afraid to put my hopes and dreams into Barack Obama!

Si Se Puede!!!

GoBama!

:hi:

[barack the house]

39. I think no-one should ever fall in love with a candidate maybe just like them.

The love element makes people excuse right or wrong.

[union_maid]

40. Yeah, some of us are

It doesn't stop all of us from choosing him, but yes, I'd say there's a certain amount of that feeling. It's certainly why I was so horrified by Hillary's remarks and why I thought they were beyond the pale. Hell, when Bill was president I used to get nervous about the way he loved to be right up close and personal with the people. Those three assassinations took away so much hope.

[Raine]

41. Interesting theory...could explain

why she said something so hideous that seemed deliberate. As far as I'm concerned though it doesn't work cause I'm a baby boomer who supports Obama.

[Melinda]

44. Wow, deja vue. This is what I posted on sfexpat2000's thread the other day:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=6093882#6095527

Bobby's murder was the literal end of my idealistic youth... so much had happened...


JFK, MLK, RFK, Vietnam, poverty, the entire Civil Rights struggle that began so horribly then rose to become a conscious entity in and of itself culminating in Dr. King's murder... and the change in Bobby, the metamorphosis he went through and how I knew everything was going to be alright once he became President and then the horror, the horror just months after Memphis... the end to my beautiful young love, taken at age 19 in the horror of Vietnam... those events and more from the 60's are forever ingrained on my soul, and the promise of so many of us forever lost as a result of those events...

And then this week we learn of Teddy.

After reading some of the "incredulous that we can be so upset over her remarks posts" I've come to realize that only those of us who lived through those times can possibly understand how deeply HRC's words have brought this back for us, and how bitter the tears we shed, I am shedding, truly are.

For me, Obama has brought back a taste of that youthful idealism I once possessed... but now, after today, I am once again afraid.

A watershed of tears here. I can't, I'll never, forget.

For this boomer, you hit the nail on its proverbial head. :(

[Zomby Woof]

45. Boomers only fall in love with themselves

And only a boomer would posit such a narcissistic hypothesis.

Politicians have been selling "hope" since time out of mind. But boomers like to think they were the first to experience everything. Culture and politics didn't exist until the 1960's, to hear their overbearing and distorted version of history.

[onenote]

49. You realize that Obama is a baby boomer.

Born in 1961.

And so is David Axelrod = born in 1955.

[madrchsod]

46. i have been waiting since 1968....

hillary never had to worry about her ass being shot off in Vietnam. she never had to worry about her husband going off to war and him coming back a broken man. she voted for a war that is far worse than Vietnam....

she never had to worry where the next meal was coming from,the next job,and if her kids had a future...she did`t understand what bobby meant to us....


the song "ball of confusion" never played on her radio or turntable.

[mdmc]

47. sharp learing curve ahead

Obama is gonna break our hearts too...

[onenote]

48. I know plenty of baby boomers, including myself, who are Obama supporters

Gross generalizations generally produce grossly inaccurate statements

[ClassWarrior]

51. Failing to read carefully produces grossly inaccurate replies.

I know plenty of baby boomers who are Obama supporters too. That's why I said "many baby boomers who were old enough..." in the body of the OP.

:hi:

NGU.

[cjsmom44]

50. RE: Baby Boomer

Well I am a baby boomer who remembers when JFK was shot
I remember when MLK was shot
I remember when RFK was shot
I had given up hope for years but today Obama has restored
my hopes for a new tomorrow
This baby boomer supports Barack Obama
Signed...
White Baby Boomer Woman.. who the polls say is supposed to be supporting Hillary

[ClassWarrior]

54. Fortunately there are more boomers like you, who still appreciate hope...

...than there are of the other kind.

:toast:

NGU.

[highplainsdem]

52. It's amusing to see the "explanations" Obama supporters try to come up with

to explain why not everyone is as madly in love with Obama as they are.

Do you realize that when you do this you sound very threatened by the fact that we're not all Obama maniacs?

Btw, I remember Bobby Kenney's campaign very well. I saw him speak and was honored to shake his hand. And Obama is no Bobby Kennedy.

[ClassWarrior]

56. Actually, I thought it was a rather generous and empathetic theory. I suppose...

...you'd rather I accuse Hilly of wanting to murder the nominee in cold blood with her teeth, so I live up to the twisted caricature of an Obama supporter lurking in your brain?

By the way, when this thing began, Obama wasn't anywhere near my first choice. I'm hardly a "maniac." But I consider him the better choice for President than HRC.

And the phrase "fall in love" that my friend used was originally WJC's formulation. You know, "Fall in love, then fall in line?" Rather sage advice, if you ask me.

NGU.

[girl gone mad]

53. boomers just need to get off of the stage already.

I'm sure this won't be a popular thought, but the younger generations have had enough of the boomer culture wars and the failed boomer political and business leadership of the past 20 years.

[crankychatter]

57. ok, np, say thanks when you're breathing cleaner air and driving a car with seatbelts though

you should've seen LA in 69

crankychatter <<<< munching granola and thinking....

"You GO, Dawg"

[OzarkDem]

58. Go ahead and win without us

Good luck.

Our Social Security and retirements are secure. We have health care. If you feel like throwing your future away, that's your choice. Some people only learn the hard way.

[marions ghost]

63. "I got mine" mentality

:eyes:

[marions ghost]

64. You mean Republican boomers dontcha?

they've been dominating everything ever since Reagan.

Obama's on the tail end of the boomers anyway, old enough to know he needs support from the older crowd as well as the younger, and that he must serve both ends of the spectrum as president.

If you buy the divisive generational BS, go ahead but realize it's mainly promoted to sell products (it's not your Daddy's Chevrolet).

Obama has the necessary energy, talent, flexibility, and balance to salvage this country after the Bu$h disaster--and that's why we need him--to pick up after the failed Rethuglicans, not to supplant the "failed" boomers. Who do you think has struggled through the last 2 stolen presidential elections to try to change things?--a whole lotta boomers.:-(

[Willo]

55. I know those thoughts are out there

but they way I see it is, if he can dare to run, I can't withhold voting for him out of fear.

[blues90]

59. As an early boomer I sincerely doubt that theory

We have had 40 plus years to adjust. We have had to adjust to a lot of crap over the years.

I depends on each individual on how they react and adjust.

But I certainly don't fear this , especially consciously or sub-consciously. I don't fall in love with any more so called hope.

It's all ideology.

Also, Hillary did not make any comment that had ANYTHING to do with what would be called ghastly. To bring up a fact as she did and this is ghastly then the same thing applies to bringing it up at all ever again.

Anyone old enough to remember RFK automatically associates his name with assassination.

I feel the word your friend is looking for is cautious.

[Cha]

60. I'm not afraid...nothing ventured nothing gained..

What I don't like is a lying pandering warhog being shoved down our throats by the likes of the m$$$$$$fm and paul krugman.

[graycem]

61. But that's what Bill ran on..

that and the "economy, stupid" line. He was the kid from Hope for gawd sake, so I don't know where they get off mocking Obama and his supporters idea of hoping for a better future for our country. It's completely mindboggling to watch someone who ran on hope speak with such sarcastic cynicism. I guess Washington changes people.

[McCamy Taylor]

62. Baby boomers are mostly too old to "fall in love" with candidates. We select on other criteria.

Plus after Watergate, you learn not to trust anyone in politics, Democrat or Republican. You look for someone who can get the job done without breaking the law.

Falling in love is for romance and has no place in politics. Image asking the Founding Fathers if they "fell in love" with George Washington. Jeez!

Falling in love is for people who get their political information from TV.

If I see a candidate who is asking me to fall in love or suspend my disbelief the way that W. did in 2000, I keep looking.

[Solon]

66. Anyone who terms it as "falling in love" with a politician who isn't your spouse is a fool...

and this is coming from a Gen Xer.

[ClassWarrior]

67. Like Bill Clinton? It was his formulation in 2004...

"Fall in love, then fall in line."

NGU.

[Solon]

69. Yes, like Bill Clinton...

The only person I would ever fall in love with would be a woman I plan to spend my life with, not a politician I don't even know personally. That's just stupid, and the terminology stinks, to be frank about it. We hire these people to do a job, no more, no less. The worse thing to do is fall in love with them, that makes the inevitable breakup just so much harder, and not even worth it in the first place.

[anigbrowl]

68. I think you're 75% right, but I also feel that it seemed to work OK for Bill in 92.

He was 'the man from hope', he was happy to be perceived as 'the cool guy' and so on. 'Prudence' and 'gravitas' were not the themes of his campaign, as I recall.

[Beacool]

70. Oh please,

Obama is no JFK, no MLK and no Bobby, heck he's not even Clinton.

He's just an inexperienced rookie who is charismatic and spews platitudes.