"Long-time Hillary Haters"

[KnaveRupe]

(This was posted as a reply in another thread, but I felt strongly enough about it to adapt it as an OP.)

Lately, I've seen DU regulars referred to as "Long-time Hillary-Haters", as if Obama supporters have all been founding members of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. Any expression of criticism toward Senator Clinton is dismissed as meaningless, because the critic, whoever it is, has ALWAYS hated Hillary! There has been this bizarre transference whereby the actual, honest-to-badness, long-time Clinton enemies, and anyone who CURRENTLY disagrees with or dislikes or even "hates" the Clintons are ALWAYS one and the same.

I, like most other people around here who are disgusted by the current Clinton campaign, spent the better part of the last 16 years defending the Clintons from the Freeper-types. We've gotten into arguments with republican relatives at family gatherings, with officemates in the workplace, and with right-wing blowhards on local talk radio. We carried water for Team Clinon, even when it was damned difficult. We believed Bill when he wagged his finger at us and said he had never had sexual relations with that woman. We looked stupid when it came out that he lied to us, and we STILL kept faith. We STILL argued to all those people in all those venues that impeachment wasn't warranted, and that the crime of perjury in a civil suit was not a "high crime or misdemeanor".

We cheered on Hillary's run for the Senate. Twice. Even though the RW tools were all screaming "carpetbagger!", we defended her run for a Senate seat in a state where she didn't reside because we BELIEVED she would be a damned good senator. And most of us believed, at the beginning, anyway, that she would use that Senate seat as a springboard to a damned successful presidency.

We were disappointed when she, like so many other Democrats voted for the IWR, but we forgave Kerry, and Edwards, and all the others who regretted that vote, and would have forgiven her as well, the minute she admitted it was a mistake. And even if she wasn't our FIRST choice for president this time around, most of us would have been, up until very recently, damned proud to vote for her in the General if she was our nominee.

So, excuse the hell out of me, but referring to us as "LONG-TIME Hillary-haters" is either totally disingenuous, or it's stupid on its face. And it really, really pisses me off to hear it from the Hillaroids around here. Please keep in mind, that the LONG-TIME Hillary haters aren't the rank and file DU members. Or Keith Olbermann. Or Randi Rhodes. Or Rachel Maddow. Or anyone else who's proved their progressive chops. Around here, the only LONG-TIME haters are either poo-slinging Freeper trolls (who are pretty easy to identify), or are "operation chaos" douche-bags who are pretending to support Hillary to keep the fight going 'cause it helps McSame.

All the Hillary hatred you see around here from the regulars - the people who you say you USED to respect - is recent, and, if we're being honest, has been well-earned by the current Clinton campaign.

[Coexist]

1. "Long-time Hillary Hater" only applies to me

if you consider occasional flares of well-earned, white-hot anger for the past 3 months as the proper description.

[Cha]

10. I'm one of the longest, although, I know there

are longer hilary haters than me. When she voted for the IWR without reading the 90 page NIE report and gave her fucking disingenuous speech..that was it.

And, she's only gotten worse. Look at her down there in Puerto Rico spewing her lies and promising them everything she can to get her greedy hands on their precious vote.

Talking about RFK's assassination in JUNE as a reason to stay in is hilary being hilary and then lying about it. She didn't have a better reason to stay in then RFK's assassination?

RFKjr is no RFK.

[emilyg]

11. You can't even spell her name.

[papapi]

32. And that is your defense? Pathetic. Ignore.

[emilyg]

33. Was I talking to you?

[papapi]

36. You're posting on a public board. So yes, you were.

[emilyg]

37. Well then - Hello

be safe.

[Cha]

13. Yeah, some Ignored replyed to me..yeah I fucking hate

that Fucked UP WarHOG.

[dkf]

23. I've joined you in the ignore fest.

I decided Hillary wasn't worth it.

[roguevalley]

34. thank you, OP. its amazing how off limits apparently she is supposed

to be no matter what she does.

[earthlover]

2. AMEN! Well spoken!

This has been the case since last Summer, that any criticism of Hillary meant the person was a hillary hater. Dang it was like a cult!

I used to like Hillary. I used to like Bill even more. Both of them have, through their actions and words, lowered themselves in my estimation. It is not because I favored another candidate. It is because I still cannot believe the depths to which the Clintons have sunk their campaign. And continue to do so.

From time to time I have sympathized with Hillary. Even supported her as VP. But it seems every time I start to sympathize with Hillary, she or her campaign says something that makes me mad once again. Just when I thought she had sunk herself the lowest, she said something even lower.

It is not people like me who are Hillary Haters. The responsibility is with Hillary and her campaign. They have acted in such a way as to warrant our disgust. Over and over again. It could have been easy to continue to respect Hillary after the primaries....much the same as we continue to respect Biden, Richardson, Kucinich, Edwards and the rest who ran and lost. By her actions, it is becoming increasingly more difficult to do so with Hillary. How can you respect a vulture?

[sandnsea]

3. March 6, 2003

Hillary Clinton and Code Pink
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYATbsu2cP8

And Bill Clinton on July 22, 2003

"Let me tell you what I know. When I left office, there was a substantial amount of biological and chemical material unaccounted for. That is, at the end of the first Gulf War, we knew what he had. We knew what was destroyed in all the inspection processes, and that was a lot. And then we bombed with the British for four days in 1998. We might have gotten it all; we might have gotten half of it; we might have gotten none of it. But we didn't know. So I thought it was prudent for the president to go to the U.N. and for the U.N. to say you got to let these inspectors in, and this time if you don't cooperate the penalty could be regime change, not just continued sanctions."

Don't tell me they weren't supporting this war - and for no damn reason whatsoever. Why weren't they saying they could have bombed them all in 1998 - BEFORE we invaded. They never did.

And then, on that same program, in regards to the yellowcake when Bill said "You know, everybody makes mistakes when they are president," Clinton said. "I mean, you can't make as many calls as you have to make without messing up once in awhile. The thing we ought to be focused on is what is the right thing to do now. That's what I think."

I knew that instant that Bush was going to get away with his lies because the Clintons were backing his Iraq war policy.

That's when my doubt began, the hatred didn't really kick in gear until she started lying about election law and injecting racism into the mix.

[gateley]

14. I think Hillary is to be commended for meeting with Code Pink --

I totally disagree with what she said, and I dislike her INTENSELY, but I'm impressed she made the effort. I'm guessing not too many Congresspeople or Senators did.

[sandnsea]

24. I was referring to the content

of the meeting, not the meeting itself. Between her words during that meeting, her invasion comments, her "stay the course" comments in Nov 2003, it's clear she supported the war. Especially if you consider Bill's remarks and the rest of the Clinton advisors. They helped Bush lie us into that war.

[gateley]

31. I wasn't taking exception to your post - and I'm sorry I didn't make that clear.

I was unaware of this meeting, and as I said, impressed that she took the time to meet with them.

I'm in total agreement with your statements and views regarding her complicity.

[KSinTX]

4. It's not just what is said, it's the hateful way we sometimes say it

I am exhausted, my candidate is exhausted, the finish line is in sight. I just don't have the desire to keep up this battle. Combat is a very tiring endeavor.

[Submariner]

5. Like many, I assumed she was the "inevitable" nominee

Basically, I looked at my choice as voting for the lesser of 2 evils. I didn't want to be subjected to 4-8 more years of Clenis jokes and all that crap that comes with the Clinton dynasty and the regular old faces, Lanny Davis et al, but was willing to endure if it meant getting the repukes out of office.

However, when Obama caught on I was excited to have a new fresh intelligent face, along with a fresh new team. Not because I hated Hillary but I just want a real change that can only come from someone with new ideas and not a ton of baggage like the Clinton's.

Nothing to do with hate. Everything to do with wanting a new brand of politics. Unfortunately, any opposition to Hillary has been interpreted as hate.

[Raine]

20. That's just about the way it was with me.

I was for Edwards first but after he dropped out I picked Obama as the lesser of the two evils left. I couldn't take another 4-8 years of Clinton scandals and having to put up a defense amongst friends and family for them. I choose Obama but my lukewarm supported has turned to admiration and committed support. My main difference is that in the last few weeks my weak dislike for the Clinton's has turned into full blown hate.

[cliffordu]

6. I just started hating her since Tuzla lie #4...

[tularetom]

7. K & R from a long time clinton skeptic

I never was that big a fan of these two but I enjoyed the 90's because just the mention of the word "clinton" sent my wingnut friends and relatives into a pulse pounding, spittle flying insane rage. At one point I devoutly wished for a Hillary Clinton presidency thinking it would drive some of the boy king loyalists completely bonkers.

But then it became apparent to me that like the pigs in "Animal Farm" the clintons had become what they had presumably fought against. The unrepentent vote for the Iraq War, the vote for the godawful Lieberman terroprist resolution, bill's flitting around the golf course with daddy boosh, all sort of made me wonder just what a hillary clinton term in the Wh might look like and I decided I didn't like what I isualized.

I did not know who the fuck Barack Obama was until he announced he was running for the presidency, but I'm glad he did. I'm getting along in years and I'm not sure my heart could stand the melodrama of another clinton misadministration. As well as seeing all the crimes and misdeeds of the bush gang swept under the rug like bill did with daddy's thugs back in 1993.

[TBF]

26. I've never been a fan of Hillary's but that's far from being a hater. I voted for her husband twice

[billyoc]

8. Checking in.

Ever since that fucking carpetbagger's Arkansas flag flew from the top of City Hall.

[Irishonly]

9. Dang, that's good

Well said and thank you.

[DerekJ]

12. Up to the beginning of March I'd have been happy with either (I thought she apologized for the IWR)

[JTFrog]

35. Not. Even. Close.

"If the most important thing to any of you is choosing someone who did not cast that vote or has said his vote was a mistake, then there are others to choose from."

[smiley_glad_hands]

15. I didn't start disliking her until she started acting like a repug.

Emracing repug frames and tactics and especially empowering faux news.....that should be enough for any so called dem.

[FARAFIELD]

16. I supported Edwards, but would have been Happy with either

Until all of Hillarys racial crapola (IM white). It just seemed belittling to her. My gramma used to have an expression "IM embarrassed FOR you" thats how I feel about Hillary. And with her latest "assassination tango" it just proves she has bottomed out. And now with this LIz Trotta chick, group thinking killing OBAMA, I hope Hillary is pleased with herself. And for the record I didnt hate Hillary, till I read her OP Ed and it was clear she was BLAMING ME for what she said, ANYHOO< she totally sucks and wouldnt vote for her, neither will the blacks and there goes her chances in NOVEMBER.

[SeattleGirl]

17. I'm not a "long-time Hilary hater" either. In fact, I don't hate her, but

I am disgusted at the tactics she has engaged in, particularly with what she said on Friday.

I defended both Bill and Hil up one side and down the other for years. I was very disappointed in Bill for the whole Monica thing, but certainly didn't think the wingers should have gone down the impeachment road. I still think that whole impeachment/Ken Starr thing is disgusting.

When the campaign season first started, I thought ALL our candidates were great. All the Republicans had to offer was the same old, same old, but the Democrats had, at minimum, diversity of race and gender, not to mention far better ideas than the Republicans.

When Edwards (my choice) dropped out, I took a look at both Hilary's and Barack's campaign websites to see where they stood on issues. They are, as many of noted here, very close on many issues, but I felt a little more inspired by Barack. Still, I didn't hate Hilary, and if she secured the nomination, I would happily have voted for her.

Now though? It would be extremely difficult to vote for her, though I still would, simply because I KNOW the nightmare that McCain would be. After seeing how Hilary has conducted herself, though, especially of late, there would be no joy in voting for her; just a sense that McCain would be far worse.

I'm not a long-time Hilary hater, and as I said, I don't hate her now. But I'm tired of her; tired of her tactics; tired of the cognitive dissonance I feel when trying to follow what she's saying. It's almost -- no, it IS -- like listening to the Bushies. As Judge Judy says, "Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining." And Hilary: Don't say and do the things you do, and tell me that's not what you said or did.

No, I don't hate her. I'm just weary of her.

[Window]

18. Hell, Hillary was this Black woman's second choice. Well, actually,

it was a toss up between Hillary and Edwards. I never hated her before the kitchen sink thingy.

K/R.

:kick:

[BlooInBloo]

19. I defended Clinton against other DUers for the longest time....

After Gore, she was one of the three-tied-for-firsts in my choice of candidates.

It wasn't until a couple months ago when (1) Edwards lost, and (2) Clinton started race-baiting that I was completely in Obama's camp.

lol - so fucking bizarre to think of myself defending her now. How candidates surprise you.


EDIT: subject typo.

[MindMatter]

21. I never wanted to see another Bush or CLinton in office, but now I am officially a Hillary hater

I was not a hater before. I just didn't think it served our interests to run Hillary. I did not believe she could beat the GOP slime machine and if she did get elected, well, it would be another Clinton Presidency, which I didn't want to see.

But her actions the last 90 days have made me truly despise the woman. I've even become something of a Chelsea hater, and that is just wrong. She never should have put her daughter in that position.

[Shae]

22. Nice post.

I liked the Clintons. I was definitely on their side during the impeachment travesty.
I liked Hillary up until a couple of months ago, though I must admit that I was disappointed that she was running for POTUS. I thought she was too polarizing. Little did I know how polarizing she would prove to be.

I know some of the Hillary supporters have been around DU for a long time. I suppose I can respect that they stand by her no matter what. I just don't understand their newfound love of FOX news, Bill O'Reilly, and others of that ilk.

[blonndee]

25. More than anything else, I think, it has been the absolute refusal to admit a mistake.

About which you are spot on. That is, for me, too reminiscent of our current psychopath-in-chief and one of the traits I most despise in ANY person. It is the height of arrogance and narcissism and reveals too many character weaknesses to list here. I've never been a Hillary "fan," but I once used to admire and respect her. That is gone, baby, gone now. I can't currently imagine what would make that change. Not that Hillary cares.

[ima_sinnic]

27. I really started not to like her back when she kissed Bush's ass right after 9/11

I can't find that little loyalty speech she gave at the time, but it was the biggest turn-off and like a punch in the stomach to me. Then of course she voted for IWR and continued to be a mediocre Senator, never doing anything risky or sticking her neck out in any way. She was dead to me after that.

[Catherina]

28. Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Vast Black Folks Conspiracy

I'm SO thankful she's toast because all we'd hear for the next 8 years is all about the Vast World Conspiracy against poor Hillary.

We need a leader not a perpetual victim.

Great post.

[Pisces]

29. I couldn't agree more with your post. I was proud when she first started out, now

I am disgusted and dismayed at her and her campaign.

[papapi]

30. Hillary Clingon is not qualified to be President of the United States and...

...She has spent the better part of the last three months proving that. Now can we get on with the GE and leave this creature to stew in her own misery. And I am not willing to stir the pot.