Sometimes the expression of outrage is appropriate, even required.

[yardwork]

Maybe because of my strong memories and feelings about 1968, this incident has really hit a nerve for me. It's become inextricably linked with every other awful thing that Democrats have allowed and enabled since 2000.

The combined weight of all these atrocities, committed by my country, while Democrats including Hillary Clinton stood around and twiddled her thumbs - they just came crashing down on me when I read the transcript of Hillary's comments on Friday.

I am outraged. Everybody should be outraged. Everybody should tell Hillary Clinton and every other candidate of any party that they better not even dream of saying something like this ever again, and now they better go get to work to dig us out of the horrific mess they helped create.

[Adelante]

1. Yes, it is appropriate for a time and only human

But at some point, can we accept that we have to keep moving forward? It takes discipline to elect a president. I hope we can think about that and not be endlessly distracted from that goal by dangerous flare-ups. Obama is tamping this down and I hope we can follow his course.

The candidate responds to Clinton’s RFK comment on his flight from Puerto Rico to Chicago.

Calls remark “unfortunate,” adds:

“I think that when you’re on the campaign trail for 15 months, you’re going to make some mistakes. I don’t think Senator Clinton intended anything by it, and I think we should put it behind us.”

Video and transcript at the link:

http://thepage.time.com/2008/05/25/obama-i-think-we-should-put-it-behind-us/


I do think we always have to defend Obama, so if we see an attack, we respond and quickly. I'm not sure how useful it is for Obama supporters to keep this story alive and banging, though. I don't see how a prolonged controversy over such a perilous subject benefits our campaign. No drama is what Obama asks of his supporters, his campaign and himself, so that his path to the WH is straight and sure. Let's not be knocked off course.

In my humble opinion.

[yardwork]

2. I appreciate your point of view.

[Tom Rinaldo]

3. Well said WesDem. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

7. (shrug) She re-freshed the lie today, so it's fine to go after it again.

[Swamp Rat]

4. I believe many people still need to process their anger regarding Hillary's remark.

And I do not think it is appropriate to belittle or laugh at DUers who are expressing themselves concerning this matter.

[yardwork]

6. Thank you for understanding, Swamp Rat.

Interestingly, I was also belittled for being outraged by Obama's campaign's use of a virulent homophobe. Just as in this case, I was accused of "faux outrage" and politicking.

Both times, the majority of DUers "got it." Like you, most DUers understand that there are issues that surpass political campaigns. There are issues that get into the fundamental question of decency.

I recognize that I'm probably hammering away at this too much, and ought to take a break. I appreciate your understanding that I would be equally outraged if Obama had referenced the assassination of Bobby Kennedy to score a cheap point, just as I would have been equally outraged if Hillary Clinton's campaign had contracted with a hateful destructive homophobe to score a primary victory.

[Adelante]

9. I don't mean to belittle yardwork or her point of view

She is a respected and thoughtful DUer.

However, I do think we need to get pragmatic and fast when it comes to this controversy. There is a job to be done and not much time. We all might wonder if speculation about assassination is something to his benefit or not and come to our own conclusion, but Obama has made himself clear he wants to move past it.

[yardwork]

12. I didn't feel that your comment belittled my feelings, and I don't think Swamp Rat meant you, either

I took Swamp Rat's comment to refer to other posts on the subject, not yours.

I agree with your point. I'm just...tired of being told that I should be calm and measured.

[Adelante]

13. I know the feeling

:pals:

[yardwork]

15. Thank you. I don't think that some DUers understand how this hit some of us.

When I read Hillary's comments yesterday (I missed them for almost 24 hours) I felt as if I'd been kicked in the gut. Literally. I could have moved on if it had not been for the combination of posts telling me that Hillary's comments were misconstrued and, even worse, telling me that I should be ashamed to feel anger.

It was a little too much.

Thanks for understanding.

[yardwork]

16. Dupe. /nt

[Swamp Rat]

17. You are correct.

And WesDem also makes a good point. ;)

[KittyWampus]

5. yes, an after a certain point a healthy person moves on to more measured tones.

After a certain point, it's not the actual outrage. It's expressing outrage to score political damage on your opponent.

[Tom Rinaldo]

8. And at a certain point expressing the outrage undercuts the reason for the outrage

Like you say, outrage is a real reaction felt by many. The core of the outrage is over the inappropriateness, even the danger involved, in articulating the RFK scenario. It would be a terrible irony if the last people willing to stop talking about it in public now were Obama supporters.

I am reminded of Bill Clinton's impeachment by the Republicans. They went on and on about how immoral an example Bill Clinton's behavior as President was giving to our nation's precious innocent youth, and in the process they made sure that all the dirty details about cigars, semen stains, and blow jobs stayed front page news for months where no child could fail to see it.

[yardwork]

14. No, the core of my outrage is not over the inappropriateness and danger involved.

The core of my outrage is the use of a terrible event in U.S. history to score a cheap political point.

The core of my outrage is expressed by my tears as I recall my personal memories of the events of 1968. You may disparage my emotions, but please don't restate them in your own terms.

[Tom Rinaldo]

18. I don't disparage your emotions at all. I share many of them

I've been writing about those memories today on H2O's open letter to DU GD-P thread. I am sorry that it seemed I was trying to reframe your emotions, and I can see why it felt that way to you. Sometimes it is hard on message boards to write anything in response to a discussion thread without running a risk of seeming to reframe wrongly what the original poster wrote, because what we read resonates internally differently sometimes than the actual intent of the poster.

Please take my above comment as a reflection of my own thoughts and concerns, not an attempt to twist yours to fit mine for my own purpose. And I apologize for not being clearer about that.

[yardwork]

19. Thank you. There's no need to apologize. I have a lot of respect for your posts.

[yardwork]

10. Please see my comment #6 above.

[Austinitis]

11. But not when it's pretend outrage.

[EFerrari]

20. My experience has been very similar.

As I tried to say on Friday, we lost a lot when we lost Bobby. We lost our liberal bearings for decades. That seems to be a version of what you're saying in your OP.

[yardwork]

21. I didn't see your post on Friday, but it sounds like we're feeling some of the same things.

Ever since 1968, that year has been a touchstone for so many things that went wrong. To use a reference to Bobby Kennedy's assassination to make a cheap political point...she just should have known better.

[EFerrari]

27. She activated a kind of pain that never really goes away.

We just manage it.

In doing that, she's shown how completely unfit she is for executive office.

Feel better, yardwork. :hug:

[Terri S]

22. Maybe it's a generational thing

I don't know the ages of people here, so maybe those of us old enough to have lived those times were/are the most outraged, maybe not. I know I am. It came after memories already raw from Ted's diagnosis and the sheer unbelievability of the such an outlandish reference. It was like pouring acid on an open wound, coupled with how much I see of Bobby in Barack. I'm trying hard to get past it, but I can't seem to do it while she refuses to acknowledge the pain she's caused. I think it's made me more heartsick than angry at this point.

I'm working on it.

[yardwork]

24. Yes. I think that most of us who remember 1968 are appalled.

To younger people, people who weren't born yet or weren't old enough to share the horror, Hillary's comment is a gaffe. I think that some folks are genuinely puzzled by our emotional reaction. They're responses are understandable to me.

[Enrique]

23. expressing outrage is also great fun

[yardwork]

25. If you think I'm having fun today you are sadly mistaken.

Maybe you think it's fun to review photos of Abu Ghraib, or mock those who are appalled by them.

[JohnnyLib2]

26. A personal story bearing on all this---if you will.

In the first week of June, 1968, our family welcomed the first grandchild****, the new generation. Because of the timing, several of us, college aged young adults--brand new aunts, uncles and close cousins--returned home for the big occasion.

Within a week, RFK was assassinated. The emotional roller coaster of that week for our family has long been discussed.

Recently, correspondence has been flying across the U.S. for that "baby's" 40th birthday day week (gulp!). I was able to meet with several relatives just two weeks ago. As you might imagine, almost every conversation include a comment like "remember that incredible/mixed-up/upside down/teary/heartbreaking week when ____ was born?" And of course, we all do.

And so, I was first stunned by my candidate's monumental screw up-- and then quickly remembered that I have been marking time in the same way, for 40 years. "Bumfuzzled" might describe me this weekend.

****The good news: that "baby" is now an elected Democratic official!

:woohoo:

[marions ghost]

30. these shocks stay with us...

thanks for your personal account. And the current generation now has 9-11 -- a wound as deep as those serial assassinations. And for those paying attention, the Bu$h nightmare in general qualifies as trauma, for any generation. Terrorists from within, terrorists from without...makes it very easy to work the politics of fear. I hope in the future some politician is no longer reopening these wounds on a subliminal level just to get elected.

Your "baby" should have a good year as a Dem. We're going to :kick: ass :)

[Evergreen Emerald]

28. sometimes an expression of outrage and made up interpretations

is simply faux outrage to attempt to justify your hate.

[marions ghost]

29. we need not fear genuine outrage

--we should fear attempts to suppress it.

Outrage on a mass scale will run its natural course until people come to terms with it...which will happen at different times for different people.

The OP puts this into a bigger timeframe than we are used to considering these days and that's worth discussion. Why did so many people react viscerally to this statement? Even in light of the hopeful, forward-looking nature of Obama's candidacy --we should not shrink from this question. It's not just Obama supporters who are upset by this "gaffe" of Hillary's--there are Indys, thinking Republicans and HRC supporters who find the instant flashback to 1968 unnerving and the implied reference to her opponent unacceptable. It does underscore the strategy of the her whole high-profile campaign as she nears the inevitable finale.

After the spectacular failures of the Bushites there was a window to reject the politics of fear. It was a very bad decision to go the scorched earth route. What if we really did get to the point where this kind of campaigning (ie. the whole tone of the campaign not just these comments)--becomes the norm? Haven't we had enough of it with the Rethuglicans?

So there are legitimate aftershocks here. When the HRC campaign folds its tent then this topic will be over for most people. But the impact remains.

[yardwork]

31. You said that so well! I wish I could recommend your post.

[marions ghost]

34. thanx

:hi: and I appreciated what you wrote and how you put it into a larger context so that people might understand the visceral reaction. Yes, for many it was an instant post-traumatic trigger. You are right on it with that IMO. And we need group therapy for as long as it takes.

[apocalypsehow]

32. K & R.

[yardwork]

33. Maybe if there had been more outrage on Friday and Saturday

Liz Trotta wouldn't have felt empowered to call for Senator Obama's assassination today.

[marions ghost]

35. makes you wonder...

I try to imagine the ripple effects from these choice utterances and resist the idea that this is merely dinner table chat...I want to think it's contained to a few desperate defenders of the status quo. But I'm not so sure...

Everyone with a conscience needs to see what is really going on here.

[yardwork]

36. It's been a while since I've been able to think, "Nobody would ever do..."