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Obama and McCain spar over GI bill, McCain takes shot at Obama for not serving in military?

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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:25 PM
Original message
Obama and McCain spar over GI bill, McCain takes shot at Obama for not serving in military?
Lol, McCain is such an asshole. I don't care if he is a hero. "And I will not accept from Senator Obama, who did not feel it was his responsibility to serve our country in uniform, any lectures on my regard for those who did". I guess unless you have served with troops, you can't support the troops.


http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/
I don't usually print entire press statements from campaigns, but they're usually not this acidic. The casus belli is today's vote on Sen. Jim Webb's GI bill; McCain opposes it because he worries about military retention and/but has offered a different bill that would provide incentives for folks to stay in the race.

Here's Sen. John McCain, who was one of only three senators not to vote on the bill today:

"It is typical, but no less offensive that Senator Obama uses the Senate floor to take cheap shots at an opponent and easy advantage of an issue he has less than zero understanding of. Let me say first in response to Senator Obama, running for President is different than serving as President. The office comes with responsibilities so serious that the occupant can't always take the politically easy route without hurting the country he is sworn to defend. Unlike Senator Obama, my admiration, respect and deep gratitude for America's veterans is something more than a convenient campaign pledge. I think I have earned the right to make that claim.
"When I was five years old, a car pulled up in front of our house in New London, Connecticut, and a Navy officer rolled down the window, and shouted at my father that the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor. My father immediately left for the submarine base where he was stationed. I rarely saw him again for four years. My grandfather, who commanded the fast carrier task force under Admiral Halsey, came home from the war exhausted from the burdens he had borne, and died the next day. I grew up in the Navy; served for twenty-two years as a naval officer; and, like Senator Webb, personally experienced the terrible costs war imposes on the veteran. The friendships I formed in war remain among the closest relationships in my life. The Navy is still the world I know best and love most. In Vietnam, where I formed the closest friendships of my life, some of those friends never came home to the country they loved so well .

"But I am running for the office of Commander-in-Chief. That is the highest privilege in this country, and it imposes the greatest responsibilities. It would be easier politically for me to have joined Senator Webb in offering his legislation. More importantly, I feel just as he does, that we owe veterans the respect and generosity of a great nation because no matter how generously we show our gratitude it will never compensate them fully for all the sacrifices they have borne on our behalf.

"Senators Graham, Burr and I have offered legislation that would provide veterans with a substantial increase in educational benefits. The bill we have sponsored would increase monthly education benefits to $1500; eliminate the $1200 enrollment fee; and offer a $1000 annually for books and supplies. Importantly, we would allow veterans to transfer those benefits to their spouses or dependent children or use a part of them to pay down existing student loans. We also increase benefits to the Guard and Reserve, and even more generously to those who serve in the Selected Reserve.

"I know that my friend and fellow veteran, Senator Jim Webb, an honorable man who takes his responsibility to veterans very seriously, has offered legislation with very generous benefits. I respect and admire his position, and I would never suggest that he has anything other than the best of intentions to honor the service of deserving veterans. Both Senator Webb and I are united in our deep appreciation for the men and women who risk their lives so that the rest of us may be secure in our freedom. And I take a backseat to no one in my affection, respect and devotion to veterans. And I will not accept from Senator Obama, who did not feel it was his responsibility to serve our country in uniform, any lectures on my regard for those who did.

"The most important difference between our two approaches is that Senator Webb offers veterans who served one enlistment the same benefits as those offered veterans who have re-enlisted several times. Our bill has a sliding scale that offers generous benefits to all veterans, but increases those benefits according to the veteran's length of service. I think it is important to do that because, otherwise, we will encourage more people to leave the military after they have completed one enlistment. At a time when the United States military is fighting in two wars, and as we finally are beginning the long overdue and very urgent necessity of increasing the size of the Army and Marine Corps, one study estimates that Senator Webb's bill will reduce retention rates by 16%.

"Most worrying to me, is that by hurting retention we will reduce the numbers of men and women who we train to become the backbone of all the services, the noncommissioned officer. In my life, I have learned more from noncommissioned officers I have known and served with than anyone else outside my family. And in combat, no one is more important to their soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen, and to the officers who command them, than the sergeant and petty officer. They are very hard to replace. Encouraging people not to choose to become noncommissioned officers would hurt the military and our country very badly. As I said, the office of President, which I am seeking, is a great honor, indeed, but it imposes serious responsibilities. How faithfully the President discharges those responsibilities will determine whether he or she deserves the honor. I can only tell you I intend to deserve the honor if I am fo rtunate to receive it, even if it means I must take politically unpopular positions at times and disagree with people for whom I have the highest respect and affection.

"Perhaps, if Senator Obama would take the time and trouble to understand this issue he would learn to debate an honest disagreement respectfully. But, as he always does, he prefers impugning the motives of his opponent, and exploiting a thoughtful difference of opinion to advance his own ambitions. If that is how he would behave as President, the country would regret his election."

Webb's bill passed, 75-22.

Here's what Obama said:

I respect sen. John McCain's service to our country. He is one of those heroes of which I speak. But I can't understand why he would line up behind the President in his opposition to this GI bill.
I can't believe why he believes it is too generous to our veterans. I could not disagree with him and the President more on this issue. There are many issues that lend themselves to partisan posturing but giving our veterans the chance to go to college should not be one of them.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Obama's lack of service Will be an issue, just as it was for Clinton(Bill)
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. yes, I know. predictable shit.
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samdogmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Hmmm. Apparently if you serve and go AWOL that's okay!
I truly don't understand why Bush's AWOL status never became an issue.

On the other hand, Hillary never "served" either. So neither Democratic candidate has this "advantage(?)".
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dbackjon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. It is only an issue for Democrats
Republicans could give a shit who served, since they elected a bunch of chicken hawks who didn't serve in 2000/2004 (Bush/Cheney)
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Quite true, but an issue that will come up.
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. There was NO WAR going on when he was eligible to serve!
Edited on Thu May-22-08 01:48 PM by Windy
Further, he contributed to society and this country by his work as a community organizer. Clinton got out of the Vietnam war by going to college which was an exemption at the time. This will not be an issue for Obama.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. Don't fuckin argue the point with me.
It will be an issue. But not with me, or most DUers. But to flat out say it will not be an issue is naive. But that's par for your course.
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Excuse me? You've got to be kidding.
Wow, you are crass and self important aren't you! I am entitled to state my position.

You're candidate now has a much bigger problem.
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. This combat zone veterans says FUCK YOU JOHN MCCAIN
If our country has sane civilian leadership no citizen should have the "responsibility" to serve in uniform. But its great to see that temper flaring up john. Keep it up, you'll blow a fucking gasket before November.

Your no vote says more about your support of our troops then any of your goddamned gop posturing.
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
8.  I hope he keeps that up by calling McCain out on this.
Edited on Thu May-22-08 01:37 PM by mystieus
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. In other words, it's better to treat our service people like shit so they feel chained to the job...
and feel like they have no options (like the ones this bill would provide).

McCain is really a piece of shit.
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. How many tours of Iraq should be required before a solider earns educational benefits?
Edited on Thu May-22-08 01:35 PM by Skwmom
Two, three, four, five, fifteen? After repeated tours, how many soldiers will even be in a state of mind to attend classes? Hey, that should make the bill really cost effective.

McCain is an ass. He's basically saying that veterans of the Iraq War aren't as deserving as the veterans of earlier wars.
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wmbrew0206 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. With the Graham Bill benefits stay the same as they are now and
eliminate the $1200 buy. The longer you stay in the better the benefits become (ie the more $$ per month).
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. This is a great issue for Obama. A 7 yr old kid could make an GE ad blasting McCain on this
Edited on Thu May-22-08 01:35 PM by BrentTaylor
Dumb move by McCain. He should of just voted for it. Big mistake.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. Well at leas this year
We won't have people claiming our candidate cheated to get his medals. Here is an interesting VP pick Max Cleland. Ok McCain tell that guy he doesn't have the right to speak for veterans.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. McCain unable to take anyone disagreeing with him - sounds like Bush.
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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
13. "why he would line up behind the President in his opposition"
I love the automatic linking of Bush to McCain as being joined at the hip. Obama is doing a great job of defining McCain as the 3rd term for Bush.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
16. How about a chorus of God Bless America to go with the tinware and flagpin?
I find little quite so loathsome as flagwaving, maudlin, displays of "patriotism".
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
17. now I'm really curious
as to what exactly Obama said on the Senate floor today about McCain. Cheap shots? I can't wait for McCain to blow a temper gasket during one of the debates.
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NotThisTime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. This was his statement?
This was his statement?

I respect sen. John McCain's service to our country. He is one of those heroes of which I speak. But I can't understand why he would line up behind the President in his opposition to this GI bill.
I can't believe why he believes it is too generous to our veterans. I could not disagree with him and the President more on this issue. There are many issues that lend themselves to partisan posturing but giving our veterans the chance to go to college should not be one of them.


And that was McCain's hyper response? Wait til the General, his head will explode...
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I think what I posted was that
Edited on Thu May-22-08 02:09 PM by ErinBerin84
Obama released a press statement in response to McCain's press statement (though I'm not certain) . I'm not sure if we know the exact comments that Obama made on the Senate floor. But I'm sure it was something rational as usual, in contrast to McCain's hyper press release.
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NotThisTime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. And yet it's McCain who call's Obama hysterical last week.... the guy is cool as a cucumber...
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. well, since someone kicked this thread, let me comment on how
typical it is of McCain's hyper reactions to...everything(!) that I was wrong and the original statement by Obama in the Senate WAS

" respect sen. John McCain's service to our country. He is one of those heroes of which I speak. But I can't understand why he would line up behind the President in his opposition to this GI bill.
I can't believe why he believes it is too generous to our veterans. I could not disagree with him and the President more on this issue. There are many issues that lend themselves to partisan posturing but giving our veterans the chance to go to college should not be one of them."



I figured he didn't say anything outrageous to warrant McCain's weird response, but I didn't think he could have possibly unloaded that 8 paragraph crap over what was stated above. Thanks McCain, but I'll stay with No Shock Barack, No Drama Obama over your hysterical ass.
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mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
18. oh the irony....
http://www.libertynewstv.com/HTML%20FILES/Chickenhawks.htm

just a sampling:
REPUBLICANS

* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage. -FULL DETAILS HERE.


* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.


* Tom Delay: did not serve.


* Roy Blunt: did not serve.


* Bill Frist: did not serve.


* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.


* Rick Santorum: did not serve.


* Trent Lott: did not serve.


* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.


* Jeb Bush: did not serve.


* Karl Rove: did not serve.


* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.


* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.


* Vin Weber: did not serve.


* Richard Perle: did not serve.


* Douglas Feith: did not serve.


* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.


* Richard Shelby: did not serve.


* Jon Kyl: did not serve.


* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.


* Christopher Cox: did not serve.


* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.


* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.


* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
22. Where do I begin?
:grr:


"But I am running for the office of Commander-in-Chief. That is the highest privilege in this country, and it imposes the greatest responsibilities. It would be easier politically for me to have joined Senator Webb in offering his legislation. More importantly, I feel just as he does, that we owe veterans the respect and generosity of a great nation because no matter how generously we show our gratitude it will never compensate them fully for all the sacrifices they have borne on our behalf.


This may sound like nitpicking, I admit I can be a bit picky at times but I need to say this. The position that McSame is running for is the office of the presidency. Commander-in-Chief is a role of the office it is not the office itself. Someone should have told Wanker that a long time ago when he first started referring to himself as the Commander-in-Chief. Now because no one bothered to tell the giggling murderer, to borrow from Mike Malloy, this little fact everyone else seems to be parroting this stupid meme. We are not a military government. The head of our country is the President; he just happens to be the Commander-in-Chief.

Second, McSame has a lot of nerve slamming Obama for pointing out that McSame doesn't give a shit about the troops. I don't care if every member of McSame's family served in the military from the founding of this country. If you vote against the GI bill you deserved to be called out as the worthless piece of shit you are. McSame's alternate bill wouldn't give soldiers decent educational benefits until they are well into their thirties at which time they probably will be more concerned about how to send their children to college than in going to college themselves. He thinks Senator Webb's bill is to generous. We're sending people out multiple times into a hell hole for no damn good reason and this worthless leech has the nerve to complain about the benefits being too generous? Fuck you McSame!

The only reason why McSame even bothered to put out his garbage alternative bill is because Jim Webb was calling McSame's sorry ass out for not signing on. Otherwise, McSame would have been content with the status quo.

Third, I am sick and tired of every time people mention McSame they always preface their comments with what a hero McSame is.

Now what I'm about to say is going to sound rude and it's certainly not what you'll hear out on the TV but someone has to say it. McSame is not a hero; we really throw that word around too loosely. McSame happened to have been shot down and held captive. McSame is not the only man to whom this happened. Furthermore, this happened before I was born and while I'm not saying it's not a significant event in his life what I am saying is: What the fuck have you done lately?

Not a damn thing worth noting.

Yes his name is on the McCain-Feingold but he doesn't even follow the law his own name is on. He was involved in the Keating 5 but I suspect he won't be touting that as a reason to vote for him. He put forth a bill on immigration then runs on the opposite of what his bill stood for. He called the likes of Pat Robertson Jerry Falwell agents of intolerance then goes to Liberty University to suck up to their ilk. Wanker implies McSame fathered an illegitimate black child (like that's the worst thing in the world to have done) and McSame nestles in the man's armpit. McSame may have served in the Navy, but he has no honor and his service didn't teach him a damn thing about caring for fellow vets

McSame is a worthless piece of shit masquerading as a man of honor and has the nerve to use his military background to slam someone who is trying to do right by the troops who is also pointing out that the veteran is not doing right by the troops. And some so-called Democrats are actually considering voting for this human excrement.

I have no words.

Regards
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I agree with everything you said.
and I also love this little part of his quote:

" It would be easier politically for me to have joined Senator Webb in offering his legislation."


Uh...ok. So are you trying to tell us that you not supporting this is another shining example of you being a MAVERICK?! Well let me just shower you with praise for not being politically expedient on this one. I just can't deal with the concept of having this guy call me "his friend" for the next four years.
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NatBurner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. ^^
got my pressure up reading that lol

very
very
very well-said
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NatBurner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
24. i'm a veteran, and mccain can kiss my whole ass
and a bonus "fuck you" for voting for a war with no logic to it, no real enemy, and no exit plan
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
27. Personally, I'd prefer a man who spent his youth studying, then TEACHING, the US Constitution,
to a guy who spent his in the Hanoi Hilton.

Just saying.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
28. I wonder how many veterans would line up behind McCain
because they don't want additional benefits.
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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
29. This is why Obama needs a VP with real military experience, like Clark.
it would balance things out nicely.
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
30. kick
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