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Huffington Post Op ed- Rachel Maddow: "Clinton to the Convention?"

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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:16 AM
Original message
Huffington Post Op ed- Rachel Maddow: "Clinton to the Convention?"
Edited on Thu May-22-08 11:17 AM by ErinBerin84
Our favorite pundit Rachel Maddow has a new article up on the Huffington Post about Clinton going to the convention. I know that we have all been analyzing her convention perspective from last night's show , so I am posting this for all interested parties.

"Clinton to the Convention?" By Rachel Maddow


"When the Democratic primary calendar ends on June 3rd, Senator Obama will have more delegates than Senator Clinton.

On what grounds could a candidate who is behind at the end of a race avoid conceding that he or she has been beaten? On the grounds that the race really isn't over!

After the primary calendar has ended, Clinton's campaign can only justify or explain her staying in the race if she makes the case that the Democratic Party still has not chosen a nominee conclusively. Clinton needs an argument that the game should go into extra innings. Overtime. Bonus round. Detention. Whatever. Clinton has now found that argument -- she says she will not stop campaigning until the issue of the Florida and Michigan delegates is settled to her satisfaction.

The Florida/Michigan issue get settled, of course, by the Democrats' Rules and Bylaws Committee... unless of course that committee's decision gets appealed to the Credentials Committee... unless of course that decision, too, gets appealed... to the floor of the convention.

Do you see where this is going? If there is an open, unresolved procedural issue involving the Florida and Michigan delegations, Senator Clinton will be able to cite that as her justification for staying in the race until the convention even though she is not ahead in the nomination contest at the end of the primary calendar.

If she can ensure that the Florida and Michigan issue stays unresolved until the convention (and by appealing it every step of the way, I don't see how that can be avoided), then Clinton stays in the race until the convention. Staying in until the convention buys her three more months of campaign time, three more months to make her case to the party and the country, three more months for some potential political unfortunateness to befall Senator Obama.

And it keeps the race for the Democratic nomination open, at least theoretically, for Senator Clinton to win instead of Senator Obama.

How could Clinton win at the convention? Seems to me that three months is a long time in this race, and if it gets that far, anything could happen.

Pffft! You say. Scoff.

Listen: you don't need a vivid political imagination to recognize that if what you really want is to be President of the United States -- a slim chance of becoming President (a fight at the convention) is better than no chance of becoming President (because you dropped out).

The Clinton strategy, as best as I can tell, is to stay in the race. You can't win if you don't play -- conceding the nomination is sure defeat, not conceding means there's still a chance.

The way for her to avoid conceding is for her to avoid conceding that the race is resolved.

As long as the Florida and Michigan dispute is alive, and it is being used as the basis of Clinton's claim that the nomination is unresolved, we should expect that Senator Clinton will stay in the race.

We should also expect that if the Democratic Party's committee system takes up the Florida and Michigan dispute through its rules as they stand now, Clinton's campaign will be able to keep the Michigan and Florida dispute alive until the convention. If there's a secret Democratic-insider plan to keep that from happening, it's time for that plan to become un-secret.

The pundit corps has been counting Clinton out and saying the race is over -- but saying it doesn't make it so.

If Clinton fights to stay in until the convention -- which seems utterly plausible to me -- then I believe the Democratic Party's nominee (Obama or Clinton) will lose the general election to John McCain. This last point is of course infinitely debatable -- but my take is that in November, the party that's had a nominee since February/March, beats the party that only got a nominee the last week in August.

So, how does the Democratic Party get a nominee before the convention? Seems to me there's two things that need to happen. One small, one big.

First, Obama's campaign should stop believing what most of the press says, and start believing what Clinton says -- she isn't budging. If they don't mind the prospect of a divided convention, then fine -- if they do mind that prospect, they'll have to fight for their desired outcome. Clinton is now arguing that taking the fight to the convention is OK for the Democrats -- even noble. This argument won't be defeated if it is ignored -- Obama's camp will have to rebut.

Second, if the Democrats are to avoid a divided convention, the Florida and Michigan dispute will have to be taken off the table -- settled in a way that avoids the risk of a rules dispute that stretches the nominating contest out through the convention. I can think of only one way to do that, but there may be others.

Here's my way: based on my read of NBC's delegate math, I think if the Clinton campaign won 100% of what they wanted on the Florida and Michigan dispute, Obama could still clinch the nomination -- even according to the most pro-Clinton math -- if 90 of the remaining 210-or-so undeclared superdelegates declared for Obama.

If they so declared before May 31st, the Rules and Bylaws committee would have no reason to take up the Florida and Michigan dispute because it would be a moot point -- Obama's camp could concede every Clinton demand on the subject and still win the nomination.

Otherwise? I'll be the twitchy one on radio row at the divided Democratic convention in Denver... spooked by the ghosts of 1968, 1972, 1980...

Rachel

PS -- I should note here, briefly, that I don't have a personal preference between Senators Clinton and Obama as to who would run a better campaign against John McCain, or who would be a better President. I think both Obama and Clinton would probably be pretty good general election contenders, and probably they'd each be a good president. (50% of my hate mail tells me I'm in the tank for Obama and 50% of it tells me I'm in the tank for Clinton - although the level of vitriol on each side has risen and fallen with the tide of the campaign)."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rachel-maddow/clinton-to-the-convention_b_103078.html
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. It is easy to love Rachel Maddow and to admire her sharp mind.
Edited on Thu May-22-08 11:23 AM by papau
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oldpol Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. sometimes as a guy, i wish she could 'switch teams' :)
she's brilliant, and dead on about the math and O probably not needing FL or MI
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. as a straight girl, sometimes I think that I would
"switch teams" to be with Rachel too!
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Lucky 13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. I'm a gay woman and I have a HUGE crush on her...
Although sadly, I have about as good of a shot as either of you.

Sigh...
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. I am het but all my floaty hearts go to Maddow, 'cause she is uber
:loveya: :loveya: :loveya:
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for posting this. WTF is the DNC & Obama Camp thinking??
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
5. I heard her say this on her show, theres one alternative explanation
Hillary is trying to raise money to pay off debts.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
6. Time to be an end to Hillary's quest
Rachel is right ... and it has to be done now.

It is Rachel's world we just live in it.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. "It is Rachel's world we just live in it." Yep.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. during every election wrap up, she is the only one who has been
100% right about Clinton. I hope obama people read her stuff. you know she is right.
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Roxy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
8. Rachel is right....I just hope it's not too late. It's time to end this!!!!
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
10. So Rachel says the time has come for Obama to start attacking Clinton
Except the media isn't going to let him do that. Clinton will continue to invent reality, i.e. whine and moan about how she got cheated and the voters got cheated.
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Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. Rachel is the woman!!! She is awesome!!!
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. kick
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. Glad Rachel has ideas on how to stop that from happening.
And I think the Obama camp is starting to move that way. Hope they do and hope it works.

=========================================
Recapping Rachel:

Here's my way: based on my read of NBC's delegate math, I think if the Clinton campaign won 100% of what they wanted on the Florida and Michigan dispute, Obama could still clinch the nomination -- even according to the most pro-Clinton math -- if 90 of the remaining 210-or-so undeclared superdelegates declared for Obama.

If they so declared before May 31st, the Rules and Bylaws committee would have no reason to take up the Florida and Michigan dispute because it would be a moot point -- Obama's camp could concede every Clinton demand on the subject and still win the nomination.
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. If you know Dean - he won't bend. He has a long history of not compromising.
Only if the entire party comes down on him....
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RiverStone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
15. Then WHY won't 90 SuperD's get of their butt and make it a "moot point"?
Party leaders must save us from this thing dragging all through the summer.

WTF are they waiting for?
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MediaBabe Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Party leaders set the late summer date for the convention
I wonder why everybody keeps overlooking this point. The August date for the convention was chosen by them, not foisted on them.
In 2000 the Democratic convention was June. In 2004 the Democratic convention was July. This time they opted for August. The party leaders CHOSE August. So why all the crying?

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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. The END of August - so they would get momentum going into the GE
I like Rachel, and I admire her attempts to stay neutral (she hasn't endorsed, but I don't really think she's neutral) but I think she is wrong on this. McCain is beatable. She should start trying to dig up stuff on him like she did on Romney last year. She was excrutiatingly funny about it. There's nothing to stop HER from going after McCain now.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. They're afraid of half of their own constituents getting mad at them. n/t
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
17. I am always willing to seriously consider what Rachel has to say
She's smart and she has journalistic integrity.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. Oh, Rachel is Such a Hillary Hater!!!1!
:sarcasm:
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
19. Vaudeville Hook! Vaudeville Hook! Vaudeville Hook!
Seriously. It's time.
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Aloha Spirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. The hook will be applied on June 4, in the form of many SDs. (fingers crossed)
I am guessing there will be about 30 SD's announce on June 4th. That's in excess of however many he would need under any Michigan Florida seating arrangement.

But for the sake of entertainment, I'd rather see the hook applied before hand!
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MediaBabe Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Super delagates cannot cast their vote June 4
The convention is not until August. No vote can be cast before August. Until you can show that no one in the history of electioins has ever changed their mind, it's kinda silly to insist that this is all over two months before the votes are taken.
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. McCain is the presumptive nominee... June 4th, Obama will be our "presumptive nominee"
Edited on Thu May-22-08 02:15 PM by crankychatter
and there isn't one "silly" thing about it.

this is the way it always is... pledged delegates and SD's cast their votes at the convention, BUT the tally is accurate and not invalid simply because it's not finalized, formally; nor because they have the technical latitude to change their minds.

The rule of individual delegate freedom at the convention is for brokering purposes when ONE of the candidates doesn't have a clear delegate majority.

dream on... but your dream is a nightmare for the Democratic Party, the American People and the World.
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Aloha Spirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. Never in the history of elections has the pledged delegate leader been denied the nomination.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. What POSSIBLE benefit is there to the Democratic Party (as opposed to any other entity) in drawing
this out to the Convention, for fuck's sake?
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MediaBabe Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
25. Rachael Maddow knows that votes are only promises until the convention
It's not over until the SDs cast their vote.

The promises to support one candidate or another are merely that - promises. We all are aware of SDs who have changed their minds this very year. Would you have those who changed their minds be forced to go with their first choice?

Votes are not VOTES until they are cast. Until the convention they are only promises - and we all know what a politician's promise is worth.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
26. Excellent article. More likely Dems will give Mi and Fl 1/2 delegates as per bylaws.
Edited on Thu May-22-08 02:30 PM by McCamy Taylor
This is what the GOP did, so it will not give the Republicans an advantage in the fall, and it will allow the Dems to say that they are playing by the rules if anyone launches a protest.

There is a reason that the SDs will not commit. Same reason they would not commit for Bill Clinton in 1992 even though he was the last man standing in April, 1992. They are afraid that some scandal will show up----that Karl Rove or FOX is holding back dirt that they plan to launch once one or the other candidates is officially the nominee. And since Obama is newer that the dirt is more likely to be aimed at Obama.

The presence of the AT&T blackmail ops room that everyone knows about because of what the feds did to Spitzer has made this possibility even more stark. It does not even have to be something Obama said. It could be something his wife said on the phone or in an email.

Poor Spitzer was taken down just to psyche out the SDs to make them afraid to commit to Obama. This election is the dirtiest one since 1972. Bush and Rove are that afraid of going to jail.
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AllexxisF1 Donating Member (559 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
29. That Is Fucking It!!!
Ok, that's it ...I have fucking had it.

THE SUPERS NEED TO COME FORWARD RIGHT NOW IN MASSIVE DROVES AND END THIS.


PERIOD.

F- Hillary Clinton and the rest of her ilk.


Rachel has always been spot on and that is exactly what Queen Hillary is up to.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
31. "Obama's camp could concede every Clinton demand on the subject and still win the nomination."
Very interesting solution, might be what has to happen?
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