What in the holy hell is the problem?

[Ian_rd]

Link

...

“Women felt this was their time, and this has been stolen from them,” said Marilu Sochor, 48, a real estate agent in Columbus, Ohio, and a Clinton supporter. “Sexism has played a really big role in the race.”

...

But as others watched a campaign that starred two possibly transformative figures, they felt a growing conviction that the contest was unfair. Mrs. Clinton’s supporters point to a nagging series of slights: the fixation on her clothes, even her cleavage; chronic criticism that her voice is shrill; calls for her to exit the race; and most of all, the male commentators in the news media who, they argue, were consistently tougher on her than on Mr. Obama.

Some even accuse Mr. Obama of chauvinism, pointing to the time he called Mrs. Clinton “likeable enough” as evidence of dismissiveness. Nancy Wait, 55, a social worker in Columbia City, Ind., said Mr. Obama was far less qualified than Mrs. Clinton and described as condescending his recent assurances that Mrs. Clinton should stay in the race as long as she liked. Ms. Wait said she would “absolutely, positively not” vote for him come fall.

...

Cynthia Ruccia, 55, a sales director for Mary Kay cosmetics in Columbus, Ohio, is organizing a group, Clinton Supporters Count Too, of mostly women in swing states who plan to campaign against Mr. Obama in November. “We, the most loyal constituency, are being told to sit down, shut up and get to the back of the bus,” she said.

...Link

Oh my fucking GOD. Is this really going to be a problem? I'm hearing more and more from people who feel this way - people who consider the Obama campaign an attack on women. What the fuck?

Just because Obama ran against Hillary doesn't make him a sexist. Just because he criticized her doesn't mean he wants to return to pre-Sufferage America. Can anyone honestly think of anything he has ever said that can even remotely be considered a sexist attack on Hillary?

Some idiot talking heads make comments about Clinton's chest and many Hillary supporters want to project it onto Obama. Any criticism he gives of her somehow morphs into a chauvenistic insult. And every idiotic comment uttered by any Obama supporter anywhere is by default attributed to Obama's own mouth.

THIS IS NOT MEN VS. WOMEN for fuck sake. It's Clinton vs. Obama, and an Obama victory doesn't mean we are entering a new age of oppression against women.

The most nonsensical aspect of this whole hysteria is that for pure spite, many of these voters seem intent on sitting out (helping McCain by doing nothing), or actually voting for him! To spite Obama and the voters whom they consider sexist oppressors, they are going to support the man who calls his wife a "cunt" and will appoint a judge to take away a woman's right to an abortion. Oh yea, that makes all kinds of sense. Just how fucking crazy are we going to get?

[Jamastiene]

1. He lost me at the pandering to homophobes.

For such a charismatic guy, he sure does seem to piss off an awful lot of women. Of course, we are not allowed to say anything here, so I guess you'll never know, will you?

[Ian_rd]

4. Proven right so far.

You twist my words into saying that Hillary supporters should somehow be silenced. Dishonest and nonsensical. And it's willful.

And if you think Obama "pisses off an awful lot of women," perhaps you'd care to share the reasons why he does?

[sfam]

8. Nope...no stoking of the flames from the Clinton campaign...they would never make something up for..

political gain. This is just yet another example of Hillary's win at all costs approach. It will cost us, the democratic party, in November. But at least Hillary will be able to say she got more votes out of it. Woohoo!!!

And thank the stars that Hillary never engaged in pandering, ey? Wouldn't it be horrible if she did something like make up a fake accent, tell shootin stories, swill beer and campaign from the back of a pick-up truck just to appeal to low-income white folk?

[RazBerryBeret]

12. and she sure has the higher negatives...nationally.

[cali]

18. Fair enough. He did pander by letting McClurkin spout his

nasty crap. Hillary lost me when she bent over for bush. Like every other congress critter who voted for and supported the war- and hillary did the latter for years- she has blood on her hands. And yeah, voting for the war and supporting it is a far cry for voting for funds with timelines to get out- which Obama did. And cue the hillfan whining bullshit about not being able to say anything here. Patently false. And sorry, I'm a woman. I maintain that most women dems aren't petulant fools who will vote for Daddy McCain or sit this one out.

[kennetha]

30. Don't have to be a woman

He pisses me off too -- at least his campaign does

[The Doctor.]

50. And yet you can't explain how and give examples...

That's because you want to believe he's done something wrong, not because he actually has.

[knixphan]

100. that's the biggest trend I see among the 'I hate Obama' camp...

The dearth of logical cause for that hatred...

[Hamlette]

53. its less offensive to me than pandering to racists which is what Hillary and Bill have done

I'm a woman and I'm completely pissed off at Hillary. She is a horrid role model.

It is not about women, it is about this woman. She is toxic and doesn't have a chance in hell of winning in November. Unfortunately for her, there are just not enough racists to split with her good buddy McCain. Women are setting themselves up for a loss in November and if you think you hate men now, wait until that happens.

She has run a shitty campaign. She can't just stomp her foot and say "I'm a girl, let me play too or I'll tell mom." She has accomplished nothing on her own in her life. She was born with a silver spoon up her ass. She married well and wants us to think she did it own her own. If Bill had not been president she'd still be padding her bills at the Rose law firm.

[lachattefolle]

63. That, and sitting in the pew listening to Rev. Wright for 20 years.

That is the reason I cannot and will not vote for Obama. Those of you who say you will never vote for Clinton because she *voted for war*, well, then you should understand my non-negotiable stance on Obama giving every appearance of endorsing the sentiments of his pastor.
Most of you won't, but that's fine. I see, from time to time, posts asking why Clinton supporters won't switch their allegiance to Obama in the Fall since their policy positions are similiar. This is my answer, for me.

[Warren DeMontague]

82. Oh, give me a fucking break.

:eyes:

[madrchsod]

93. so you think john boy is a better candidate to represent you?

interesting. see ya!

[Warren DeMontague]

81. And she lost me when she voted for the IWR- and still refuses to admit it was a mistake.

If you want to focus on McClurkin to the exclusion of everything else, that's your prerogative. But Obama has made it very clear he supports equal rights for LGBT citizens, at least as much as Hillary does.

Obama actively addresses LGBT voters and issues on his website; does Hillary?

http://pride.barackobama.com/page/content/lgbthome

[knixphan]

101. Bingo!

[hfojvt]

108. good thing Hillary would never do such a thing.

Or at least if she did, the Human Rights Campaign wouldn't make a big deal out of it

[RazBerryBeret]

2. this is nonsense....

but you'll never convince them otherwise.

"the media bias"...ironically, if the situation were reversed, obama would have been needled to bow out after 11 straight losses....because of WHO she is, she's been given more grace. IMO...he would've been Huckabee in March. She has been encouraged to stay in, and NO one can criticize her, or they're called sexist. I call BS>

[LeFleur1]

71. Not the Way It Works

That's not the way the system works. You might need to study up a bit.

[RazBerryBeret]

72. thanks for the advice.

the system...

she has complained about the media "bias" and sexism from the beginning...
when actually had she been a newbie coming into this with her record since January, she wouldn't still be in the race.

[kennetha]

3. Obama is getting what he deserves

I wish the media would own up to the fact that is campaign is not only sexist and elitist, but that it is also the one that was deliberately responsible for injecting race into the campaign, by purposely twisting Bill Clinton's words.

Obama's campaign disgusts me, frankly.

[sfam]

13. I wish people would own up to the fact that their perception of reality is clouded...

based on their fervent support for their candidate. Obama is sexist and elitist so McCain is the right choice???? Yet people still can give no examples of his sexist comments other than one sweetie utterance. No, not every blogger and commenter on the internet and every bloviator in the MSM works for Obama - he is not personally responsible for their comments.

[kennetha]

33. "you're likable enough, Hillary"

showed his true colors right there. Haven't liked him a bit ever since.

[Hugabear]

36. And that is sexist how?

Reaching a bit there?

I suppose you have no fucking problem with Hillary saying that Obama wasn't a Muslim "as far as she knew".

[knixphan]

104. Bingo!

[Brundle_Fly]

43. good to see you voting on the issues.

[Catherina]

44. What the bloody fuck? Would you have preferred he said she wasn't likable?

when she said she didn't think she was that bad?

When he said that to her she smiled and laughed and answered "I APPRECIATE THAT"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4UgXzXaueI

What a warped reach to see evil in that.

[backscatter712]

45. "He's not a Muslim, as far as I know."

Hillary showed her true colors right there.

[knixphan]

109. also this gem.

“I believe that I’ve done that. (crossed the threshold) Certainly, Sen. McCain has done that and you’ll have to ask Sen. Obama with respect to his candidacy,”

[PoliticalAmazon]

68. Actually, she isn't likeable. And her and her supporters belief in their entitlement...

of the presidency is offensive as hell.

[PVnRT]

75. "I take him at his word that he's not a Muslim"

Uh-huh.

[butterfly77]

87. He was wrong..

she is not likable.

[dana_b]

96. that's a comment on her personality, not her gender

got it?

Frankly, I think he was generous.

[RandomKoolzip]

97. But why is that comment sexist? Was it his tone of voice?

I've always wondered why HRC suporters considered that sexist.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

102. Much worse than "Shame on you, Barack Obama!"

:eyes:

[DangerousRhythm]

61. Yeah, because using vile insults towards his wife in public makes him chivalrous I guess.

Never mind what he's probably said to her in the privacy of their (eight?) homes...

Clearly, they're very smart.

:freak:

[bowens43]

15. You're right, he is getting what he deserves,he's getting the nomination..

[RazBerryBeret]

16. buying superdelegates disgusts me.

[Ian_rd]

20. OBAMA WON'T BE "GETTING" WHAT HE DESERVES!!!

It will be America that "gets" fucked with a McCain presidency! Women included! Jesus!

[donheld]

25. OBAMA WILL BE "GETTING" WHAT HE DESERVES!!!

The Presidency!

[OzarkDem]

48. What does Obama "deserve"?

Where does this sense of entitlement come from re Obama? Where do the boyz in the Dem party get off thinking this guy is entitled to something?

Its no secret that Dean and Brazile began rigging the primary process in 2004 to elect Obama. The problem is, they didn't bother to take into consideration whether the same fool they're trying to foist on the party could win the GE.

In making their foolish choice they completely ignored whether the candidate they're pushing would appeal to their base - women voters.

We've been through this disaster before, we don't feel like repeating it.

Dems will stick with a candidate who can win the GE and stop discriminating against her just because she's a woman.

And, while I'm no fan of Terry McCauliffe's I now have very little respect for Howard Dean for pulling such a stupid stunt. He needs to go and someone better put in charge of the DNC.

[The Doctor.]

52. That's very sexist of you.

To say that the only candidate to appeal to women voters must be a woman is very demeaning to women and insults both their intelligence and their ability to choose based on more criteria than gender.

[knixphan]

110. THANK. YOU!

[Ian_rd]

56. You seem to be using the throw-enough-shit-at-the-barn technique

1. Why do you think Obama considers himself "entitled?"

2. How did Dean and Brazile "rig" the primaries?

3. Why is Obama a "fool?"

4. How are we misogynistically "discriminating" against Hillary by voting for Obama?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

106. Because he won the most delegates, genius.

And why wouldn't a man appeal to women voters? All the previous nominees were men, so did you have a problem with them, too?

[elocs]

22. You're right, and what Obama is getting is the Democratic nomination for President of the U.S. n/t

He has earned that. Nobody needs to twist finger wagging Bill Clinton's words any more than they had to twist them when he righteously proclaimed, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman". Certainly you cannot get more elitist than being a former President and First Lady, plus they are such paupers.

[Hugabear]

35. His campaign "is sexist" - please provide ONE example of that

And I'm not talking about posts here on DU, DailyKos, or any of his supporters. Please provide concrete examples of sexism by his CAMPAIGN.

[RazBerryBeret]

38. And, another thing that frankly disgusts me....

is unprovoked threats to obliterate another country...


big picture, folks....

[JTFrog]

42. Yes he is getting what he deserves. The Democratic Nomination for the 2008 Presidential GE.

It's what he deserves for getting the most votes, having the most delegates, winning the most states, having the best GOTV and ground game, bringing in the most donors and running the best campaign.

[Bill McBlueState]

62. "getting what he deserves"

He's getting the Democratic nomination for President. Is that what you mean?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

103. Yes, the elitist Obama partially self-financed his campaign.

Oh, wait... :eyes:

[rpannier]

5. People say lots of things that once they calm down and see what's at stake they come around

As I've said in earlier posts, I had reservations about Clinton in 92.

I was a Brown supporter and thought they treated him shabbily at the convention.

But, given the stakes, "My emotions and George Bush or doing what was best" I chose the latter.

Wait a month or two.
Ceasing the incendiary talk by both sides would be helpful.
And I believe this will happen as well.

Bottom line... Let people vent. It's cathartic.

[Iceburg]

28. That is your hope, but the reality is people are tearing up their Dem cards.

[LizW]

6. Silly, of course it's not men vs. women. Sexism doesn't exist.

[Ian_rd]

11. Again - twisting the words.

I never said anything remotely like "sexism doesn't exist." We're talking about the Democratic Primary here - and millions of liberal Democratic feminist women have voted for him.

[nomaco-10]

19. Of course sexism exists, but it was never .....

applied by Obama towards Hillary in this campaign. Good Greif.

[sfam]

21. And the Obama campaign is selling that shirt? Really?? That's his fault???

Give me a break. Is Obama also responsible for that group with the four letter word acronym, or are you not gonna stoop that far?

[babylonsister]

27. And you're advertising that shirt by displaying it here? Shame on you! nt

[KittyWampus]

34. are you really so foolish you can't see that shirt was made by a GOP'er wanting to cause disruption?

Why are you even posting that here?

You aren't proving a point except to underline how clearly MOST of this nonsense about women not voting for Obama because he has displayed some kind of sexism is BULLSHIT created by the GOP.

[cottonseed]

86. You can't use that shirt to argue sexism in Obama's campaign.

It's pathetic.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

107. ***AHEM***

[nomaco-10]

7. It boggles one's mind. It really does....

I have no explanation for the mindset of these women. I can't even begin to enter their realm of reasoning. I can't even comprehend their rationale at this point, their thinking is so foreign to me.

[2rth2pwr]

77. women= other. got it.

[bowens43]

9. more mindless drivel

from those who are so petty that they are willing to sacrifice everything because they didn't get their way.

Pathetic.

[TexasObserver]

10. Doris Kearns Goodwin called BOGUS on the entire sexism theme.

“When people look at the arc of the campaign, it will be seen that being a woman, in the end, was not a detriment and if anything it was a help to her,” the presidential historian Doris Kearns Goodwin said in an interview. Mrs. Clinton’s campaign is faltering, she added, because of “strategic, tactical things that have nothing to do with her being a woman.”

[NashVegas]

26. And If a Plagiarist Says There's No Sexism, There's No Sexism

[Atman]

32. Uh...what'd she do, steal the comment about it NOT being sexism?

What a silly non sequitur. Kearns Goodwin's opinion is still her opinion. Are you saying that if one forms an opinion based upon what she has learned that she is plagiarizing that knowledge? That's just dumb.

.

[HereSince1628]

14. Conflict sells newspapers. As they say follow the money

Do you really think there are scores of millions available to put up an anti-campaign? I don't.

[Ninga]

17. Mob mentality knows no reason. Water seeks its own level. Birds of a feather, fly together.

Oil and water don't mix.

None are so blind, as those who will not see.



I wonder how different this world would be, if people would learn how to not take things personally.


It is a very very difficult dynamic to understand and face in an honest way. Once the human species learns not to point fingers, then we may be able to solve the problems of the world.

[sfam]

23. The Clinton campaign has successfully stoked this meme. The only question is...

what to do about it. My guess is they are engaging in this end-game to force themselves on the Ticket. I think that's a bad answer for a lot of reasons, but it makes sense for them. It hurts Obama's chances in the GE while propping up Hillary's in 2012.

So again, what to do about this? For starters, this depends in large part on Hillary. But if she wants to play hardball, fine. Obama should refuse to give her the VP, but give her other concessions such as changing the nominating process. Obama should strongly consider one or two of the qualified women candidates out there (he already is by all indications) - NOT as a token woman as many Clinton supporters suggest. Sebelius is already a terrific choice without this problem, given her ties to Ohio and attraction to independents and republicans, and solid executive creds. If it happens that this helps stem the sentiment that "Obama is too small minded to have a strong woman on the ticket", this is fine too. This would put Hillary supporters in the very odd position of berating one of the better woman politicians out there, and will be seen for what it is - spite over Hillary losing. The vast majority of her supporters will probably see this as a conciliatory gesture, which works because she may be the best person for him anyways.

The other thing obviously involves lots of reaching out gestures to women, Hispanics and those hard working white people.

[Atman]

24. It's a battle of the ISMs.

And "Stupidism" is winning out.

.

[Vinca]

29. Well said. nt

[LaurenG]

31. There are some very delusional people in the world.

I have been delusional myself a time or two.

Whatever floats their boat and gets them by. I don't feel threatened by their choices but the perceptions they have don't resonate with me a bit. I always feel a little like I'm participating on "The Twilight Zone" when I read about stuff like this.

[Liberal Veteran]

37. Hillary and company say, "They stole it from us...they took the precious. We hates them"

[mainer]

39. If she'd voted against the Iraq war, she'd be the nominee

It has nothing to do with Hillary being a woman. It has to do with her being a pandering woman.

[marions ghost]

40. A fair article

The crux of Hillary and her campaign's problems on the gender issue was--as the article points out--that they did not actively and publicly DEAL with it. Gender loyalty was used to gain support primarily from a female constituency in a divisive way, setting up expectations based on a sense of entitlement. They never expected Obama to be a contender. Big mistake among many mistakes they made.

Hillary supporters need to be happy with the strides for women that HRC HAS made. They need to realize that in a democracy the media and corporate-anointed "front-runner" should not ALWAYS win. Hillary had everything going for her and she blew it fair and square. Myopic, overly invested whining does NOTHING to help Hillary OR the cause of women at this point. It's futile and embarrassing.

--------------------------

"Mr. Obama, who sought to minimize the role of race in his candidacy, led something of a national dialogue about it, but Mrs. Clinton, who made womanhood an explicit part of her run, seemed unwilling or unable to talk candidly about gender.

Mrs. Clinton, for example, declined a New York Times request earlier this year for an interview about the gender dynamics of the race; an aide said the topic would be impossible for her to address in a frank way.."

[Terran]

41. BTW, her voice IS shrill

That's not sexism, it's a factual observation. And it's not a reason not to vote for someone, but hey, I do find her voice incredibly annoying. I find Bush's voice incredibly annoying too.

[backscatter712]

47. Absolutely.

She hollers her speeches at the top of her lungs, and it comes out sounding like nails on a chalkboard.

[DearAbby]

84. Obama said Clinton's voice was Shrill?

Or critique her clothes, claimed she sported too much cleavage? Or she cackles when she laughs? Did Obama do any of these things you are claiming...or the MEDIA? Why do people blame Obama?

[Terran]

90. Um, no

Maybe you responded to the wrong person? I didn't (and wouldn't) say that Obama said any of those things.

[DearAbby]

92. Sorry I responded to the wrong post

:hi:

Still needed to be said, I dont see Obama or his campaign being sexist. Its the media, I also see the Clinton's using it as an excuse.

[OzarkDem]

46. Obama is not electable

Dem women voters don't feel like propping up another failed candidate foisted on them by the party leadership.

The better qualified and more electable candidate (check the GE public opinion polls) happens to be a woman this time and we're not willing to watch our party kick her out of the primary race to promote someone who will lose the GE.

There's too much at stake for Dem women to stand aside and watch our party destroy its chances again. Enough.

Its pretty simple. Real simple.

[Ian_rd]

58. So let me get this straight: Since many Hillary supporters consider Obama unelectable, they therefor

plan to vote for McCain or sit it out. Why? To prove themselves right?

That's like me betting against a horse, and then sneaking into the stall and breaking its leg. You see! I was right! It can't win!

[dana_b]

98. yeah, that's right!

"and then, I'll vote aginst my own best interests, my daughter's best interests, her daughter's best interests... but at least that damn elitist/sexist Obama won't be President.... grrr....."

[pdx_prog]

88. Explain how.....

a candidate with the most votes and the most delegates can lose?

The GE is not until November....we are in the primary....that's P-R-I-M-A-R-Y. That is where the Democratic party nominates a candidate for the General Election. The way it works is that the Democratic party nominates the candidate with the most delegates to run for president of the United States. Why would you think they would do otherwise?

[cornermouse]

49. More name-calling. More abuse.

That'll make 'em fall in line.

[crankychatter]

51. My sister hates men... it's crazy... I mean she HATES them hates them hates them

I love her but good grief... she really hates men.

There's nothing for it. She'll be kind, professional, respectful... civil.

Then POW. She'll rip out your entrails and devour them while you watch. She hasn't one male friend and if you're in her home, you're family and only tolerated short term.

The only man she likes... and there is ONE... is my son. I think it's because he's a hard worker, good student getting his degree next week. It's sort of like getting ME back, without all the baggage and old family dynamics. (Yes, I'm a morally defective Black Sheep.) She thinks the world of him.

Here's the deal though. My sister is a Saul Alinsky progressive Democrat. She supports Obama 100%. I don't even have to ask... I know it from the heels up.

I really don't think that women in the category described above are Feminists. While real Feminists were in New Orleans celebrating the Tenth Anniversary of the Campaign to End Violence Against Women... same day... the Clinton "Feminists" were banging pots in front of MSNBC. There was no acknowledgment of the other event, or complaint about the lack of MSM coverage... no attention to this important international movement.

They're not feminists. They're not progressive Democrats. I don't know what they are.

Maybe they're closeted racists or Republican operatives... corporatist sympathizers. Frankly, that's the only explanation that makes any sense to me

[BlueJac]

54. I love these sexism posts......

It brings out the real side of the Hillary supporters.



:popcorn:

[Triana]

55. Some advice from a woman wiser than Hillary...

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt, 'This Is My Story,' 1937

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt

I think that somehow, we learn who we really are and then live with that decision.
Eleanor Roosevelt

If someone betrays you once, it’s their fault; if they betray you twice, it’s your fault.
Eleanor Roosevelt

[FredScuttle]

57. "Get to the back of the bus"

They can take their pathetic co-opting of a painful period of the black experience in America and shove it up their ass. Fuck them and any Hillary supporter who condones that bullshit.

And, by the way....blacks are the most loyal constituency the Democratic Party has ever had ("security moms" as a tossup, anyone?). But don't let that stop the Hillary supporters on here trashing and insulting the black vote as if it shouldn't count.

[DemGa]

59. Obama is dismissive, arrogant - his passive aggressive style

is meant to enrage - and it does. People are not dumb, they know what this man has been doing.

[Ian_rd]

60. Perfect: An accusation that requires no evidence whatsoever

:eyes:

[FlaGranny]

78. That is

totally pathetic nonsense and you know it. Who is it meant to enrage? Voters? Yeah. That makes a whole lot of sense. Enrage the voters and make them hate you so they'll vote for you.

You don't make the slightest bit of sense.

[Prophet 451]

64. When all else fails, cry "sexism"

Sure, sexism has been out there but Hillary's campaign has been a disaster of epic proportions.

[stillcool]

65. "Campaign Strategy"...

Sunday, November 4, 2007
CLINTON PLANNED TO USE GENDER CARD ALL ALONG

RON FOURNIER, AP - Clinton's advisers, speaking on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss internal matters, said there is a clear and long-planned strategy to fend off attacks by accusing her male rivals of gathering against her. The idea is to change the subject while making Clinton a sympathetic figure, especially among female voters who often feel outnumbered and bullied on the job. As one adviser put it, Clinton is not the first presidential candidate to play the "woe-is-me card" but she's the first major female presidential candidate to do it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071101/ap_po/on_deadline_c...

Did Hillary "Play The Gender Card"?
By Greg Sargent - November 2, 2007, 3:51PM

So what really happened here, anyway?
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2007/11/did_hillary_play_the_gender_card.php
After the debate, Hillary's campaign sent out an email describing her as "one tough woman" and deriding the nature of the "piling on" that had ensued. And the next day, AFSCME president Gerald McEntee endorsed Hillary with remarks that almost certainly had plenty of input from the Hillary campaign: "Six guys against Hillary. I’d call that a fair fight. This is one strong woman.:
So just after the debate the campaign didn't argue that she was being attacked because she's a woman. But the campaign clearly did try to strongly emphasize the gender picture here.
--------------------

Hillary pollster Mark Penn subsequently said in a conference call that the image of six men beating up on Hillary would play well with female voters. And anonymous Clinton advisers told the Associated Press that "there is a clear and long-planned strategy to fend off attacks by accusing her male rivals of
gathering against her." Though one should approach anonymous stuff with caution, this doesn't seem especially difficult to believe.
---------------------------------------------------------
Bottom line: As best as we can determine, Hillary never explicitly made the accusation that the men were piling up on her because she's a woman. But you'd have to be very credulous indeed not to believe that the campaign is explicitly trying to emphasize, for various political reasons, the fact that she's a woman getting hammered by a bunch of men. I don't know if that constitutes "playing the gender card" or not -- the exact meaning of the term is unclear, at least to me -- but that's obviously what's going on.

[kentuck]

66. Where would Hillary be if ?

she wasn't a Clinton and she wasn't running on the coattails of Bill Clinton??

[backscatter712]

67. Where's that political cartoon...

that has Hillary swinging this huge, bloody mace, while wearing an apron saying "I'm just a girl!"?

[Ian_rd]

70. I remember that one. I prefer the one where she is nailing herself to a cross.

Crap, can't find it.

[Renew Deal]

69. It seems that the true sexists are on Hillary's side.

They felt entitled to elect a woman instead of the best candidate.

[tblue37]

73. This post is annoyingly long, but please read it anyway!

For years we here at DU have complained about how the corporatist Republicans have corrupted our electoral process, have complained about how easily people are manipulated into voting against their own self-interest.

All a politician or a party has to do is press their buttons and they respond like Pavlov's dogs, voting against the candidate whose positions most closely resemble their own, voting against their own economic and social needs just because they are emotionally attached to a given politician's image or to certain causes (abortion, gays, guns) that are not directly relevant to how the winning candidate will govern the country.

For example, just because GWB's handlers have convinced voters that he is a Christian, they vote for him or against his opponent because they think he is a "godly man." Or they vote against Kerry because he "looks French."

It really disappoints me to see how easily Democrats, who really should know better, are manipulated into voting against our nominee in the fall or simply staying out of the process altogether, when every vote is needed. We need a true tsunami to overcome the inevitable attempts to steal the election by voter suppression tactics and electronic hacking. We will lose a lot of votes by way of such theft, so we need a lot more to balance the lost votes out.

I am quite certain that we won by much larger margins in 2006 than showed up in the final results. I am equally sure that we won more seats in both houses of Congress than we ended up with. We also know that we won in 2000 and 2004, but close elections are just too easy to steal.

So we need Hillary’s loyal voters to vote for Obama in the fall, to protect us against such inevitable attempts to steal the election again. If they stay home, or if they vote for McCain, then we could lose the election, despite all the many thousands of people at Obama’s rallies (don’t’ forget the huge crowds Kerry and Edwards drew in 2004), and despite the millions of new voters Obama will bring to the polls.

Any dispassionate analysis would reveal to Hillary’s voters that Obama is light years better than McCain, and that McCain would appoint 2 to 3 new SC Justices, locking in the radical right wing majority for an entire generation, perhaps even longer, and undoing the gains we have made since FDR. Also, the already far advanced corruption in the DOJ and all through the federal bench would become worse under a McCain administration, whereas a Dem administration could begin the process of straightening it out.

Do we really want more partisan witchhunts like the one that imprisoned Don Siegelman? Do we want the government to use those KB&R-built concentration camps to round up dissenters like us?

We can’t afford emotional, irrational votes (or non-votes). Our lives and our children’s and grandchildren’s lives, will be dramatically affected for the worse if McCain wins this election. That’s an incontrovertible fact, and I believe that even the most committed Hillary voter must realize this. If they did not realize how much worse the Republicans are for our country, they would not want to vote for Hillary in the first place!

So how can anyone, anyone, who is aware of how much damage Republicans have done to the quality of life in this country, to the world, to everything, even consider doing anything that could risk letting the Republicans remain in power? We need a Dem president, no matter who it is, and a large Dem majority in the House and Senate, not just to prevent further damage, but also to begin undoing some of the damage this criminal administration hss already done. A large Dem majority, led by a Dem president can begin to untangle the pervasive corruption in the DOJ, and also undertake real investigations aimed at bringing some of the worst criminals of these past 8 years to justice.

Come on, people—how can you not want that, no matter who the Dem nominee is? I don’t see any way for Hillary to take this nomination, but if she somehow did, I would not only vote for her, I would work my ass off to try to help her win! We all need to work for whoever the nominee is. It’s that simple.

[dchill]

76. Why don't you give this its own thread?

It's a great topic, and one that bears "discussion". :)

[tblue37]

79. Thanks for the idea. I will.

OK--I just started a new thread on this.

[Ian_rd]

80. That's a lot better than the angry original post!

Yea, I wrote it. :shrug:

Excellent post, thanks! It definitely needs its own thread.

[tblue37]

85. Well, I gave it its own thread, but no one wants to read it.

In fact, one reply (of just two that it has gotten) said it is annoyingly long. It dropped drastically within 7 seconds of my having posted it!

I am so disappointed. I thought we at DU were the people who can actually read and are interested in political disussion that reaches beyond simple-minded sound bites.

Sigh.

[boston bean]

74. maybe some o supporters should have recognized the sexism and validated feelings. nt

[RandomKoolzip]

89. You will not find an "o" supporter anywhere who doesn't think there has been sexism directed at HRC.

There has. The problem is that too many HRC supporters somehow got the idea that the sexism was coming from Obama himslef, which is ludicrous. I'd love to hear exactly how "You're likeable enough" is supposed to be misogynist (was it his tone? I'm genuinely perplexed by this!) and so far, that's the only example ANY (ANY!!!) HRC supporter has given to corrobborate their claim that Obama HIMSELF is sexist.

The "Bro's before Ho's" shirt, the comments from errant and stupid DUers calling her a "C*nt," a "Bitch," etc. YES, these are all examples of sexism and they're deplorable, and *I* myself have taken time out to point them out as such when i see them. But Obama is not responsible for those phenomena.

It's gotten to the point where the conflation of Obama and his supporters has allowed for HRC supporters claim that Obama himslef has been somehow to blame for those isolated examples of REAL sexism; now HRCers can just blithely call Obama himself "sexsit" and "misogynist" and practically no one calls them on it.

PS: I'm guessing that if this message gets ANY replies at all, it'll be of the "well, Obama supporters called HRC racist" variety, is if two wrongs make a right....:eyes:

[madrchsod]

95. do`t blind them with the truth......

[knixphan]

111. Right on, RandomKoolzip!

[pdx_prog]

83. And here I thought it was because she is a lunatic....

shows what I know....

:P

[mudesi]

91. Clinton loyalists are DELUDED and beyond help

Witness some of the comments in this very thread.

I've never seen anything like this before except when it's from a Bush supporter. Up is down, black is white. It's frightening.

[madrchsod]

94. ...they have three choices

john

not to vote

barack

there is enough young and moderate republicans to offset any of the hillary supporters. let them throw away there votes and their future

[knixphan]

99. K&R

[Arugula Latte]

105. Ironically enough, it was HILLARY who lorded her sense of entitlement over everyone

I'll never forget those early interviews where she was so frickin' smug and arrogant ... like "Oh, drears. Do I REALLY have to go through this charade? Why won't you people just crown me right here and now and get it over with."

That was a huge factor in why I have been so adamantly opposed to her candidacy (among many others, IWR vote, etc. etc.)