A Challenge To Clinton Supporters: Why Did Hillary Lose?

[berni_mccoy]

Honest question. Honest answers only please. I won't question or judge any of them. In fact, unless someone asks me to, i won't even respond to any.

I have, of course, my own ideas as to why she lost, but I want to know why you think she lost. But I'd like to see this through your eyes.

Thanks in advance.

[Kittycat]

1. Please, no offense but...

We see these threads throughout the day. They never generate honest discussion. At this point - it's over. I really think it's best to let it go, and start moving forward.

[4themind]

3. Agreed, there's no break in between rounds now

McCain/Bush are already jumping into attack before this fight has been called by the refs, not to high jack this thread but I'm even more interested in hearing what can be done to improve and fine tune campaigning skills for McCain in the G.E., and a democratic primary (even where positions are similar) can give us insights into what we can use going forward,so hopefully that can be discussed in this thread (and since I'm out of OP's for the day hehe)

[BlooInBloo]

11. I did this thread a month or two ago, and it got interesting responses.

[walldude]

2. Poor planning...

Not a Clinton supporter, but her campaign reminds me of Rocky III. Hillary being Rocky and Obama being Clubber Lang. Rocky thought it was hers before it even started. A cakewalk. Only Clubber over there was hungry, he trained harder, worked harder and played harder than she did. When she started to realize she could lose this, she started playing dirty. The 3am ad, the "experience" comments, and a slew of other RW tactics drove even more people into Obama's camp. Hillary's supporters can call it a cult, they can call him an empty suit, the fact is people are tired of the Washington status quo and they feel Obama is a better choice for them.

[rpannier]

4. Because it turns out Time Magazine was right

One of the few pluses to my candidate being out before Feb 1 is that I got to watch the campaign from a unattached position.

There are people who are able to latch on to people through the modern media of the day.
From 1958-2002 that was Television. JFK's and Ronald Reagan's elections were a product of their ability to come across well on television. Neither man would probably have ever been president were it not for television.

Radio was made for men with clear and articulate speech that made feel confidant in the guy running for office. Lincoln most likely would never have been elected had radio been around in 1860 -- according to stories I read, he had a somewhat high-pitched, nasaly whiny sounding voice. A poor voice for radio.

The internet has given many people here a voice and a community to express that voice in.
With the internet, people are given the opportunity to get information out quickly and act on that information. Communities are developed -- there is a WE.

The first politician to benefit from the internet was former Korean President Moon-hyeon Noh. In 2002, it seemed a foregone conclusion that he would lose.
But, as the day went on, more and more people poured out to the polls. Urged on by members of the communities they were in. Without the internet, he would never have won.

Clinton used a language that was pre-internet communities. "I will fight for you." "I will work hard for you." etc
Perfectly acceptable phrases for the pre-internet community-age.

Obama spoke to these communities. He spoke of how "We can make change." "How we can..."
That's what people want to hear. Because, as time has gone on, we've come to view Washington DC the way we view our local governments:
1. Accessible to us
2. Involved with us
3. Accountable to us

[BenDavid]

5. until the last vote is taken and the last dog dies HRC has not lost

but then again the other shoe could very easily drop on obama and the whoremedia will not be able to prop his ass up, and then we will all be glad HRC stayed in the race.....just saying it could happen.

[scheming daemons]

7. Wishing for a catastrophe, I see.....

....

What a wonderful way to root for your candidate....


"PLEASE... GOD.... MAKE SOMETHING BAD HAPPEN TO THE OTHER GUY!"


Pathetic. Do you even LIKE yourself?

[berni_mccoy]

8. I do not agree with you that is what he is saying. He's saying Clinton is hanging in there

just in case something bad happens. At least, I'm going to give him and those who see this possibility, the benefit of the doubt.

[Stop Cornyn]

6. (1) strong field of candidates, (2) poor choice of campaign theme of inevitability, (3) inadequate

preparation for month of contests after super Tuesday, (4) Tuzla derailed first post-super Tuesday campaign resurgence, (5) second campaign resurgence too late.

Whatever she paid Mark Penn, she ought to get some of that money back because he was at the heart of most of the fatal problems. If Obama had Penn and she had Obama's team, I think Obama would have won anyway but I'm not certain.

[TK421]

9. Well...as long as you don't question or judge any of them...

:eyes: like I give a rats hairy ass....I think she wasn't aggressive ENOUGH in this campaign

The Bosnia sniper-fire story ( having since been laid to rest, but not so with some of Obamas rabid supporters ) certainly played a role in her trustworthiness with the American people, but most of us were able to see past THAT bullshit.

The whole uproar with her "obliterate Iran" comment....she was making reference to a possibility with a war on Iran....she was asked a question, and she used a harsh term....shame on her...shame. ( by the way, if Obama was asked the same question, I wonder how he would have responded?....well..we'll just push that aside for now ).

Her husband....OMFG..the guy had a blowjob in the Oval Office...big-fucking-deal and the right-wing slime machine used that against him during his term there...it worked! It is STILL working to this day, but sadly, on this website. I've had plenty of blow-jobs, and I certainly don't wish to run for office, otherwise, I would be totally screwed...so why would I want to bring my personal life into public office? Well...I just WOULDN'T, that's all. The association with this sickens me, because I see plenty of people here who were behind Bill Clinton resorting to the same blow-job smear-tactics that the right wing used back then....and I seem to recall a certain slogan we adopted here.." Clinton ruined a dress...Bush ruined a nation ". Talk about off-topic and slanted towards the opposition

[HuffleClaw]

10. well, first of all she hasn't lost

Secondly, as some have been saying for a long time, Obama (and Hillary to a lesser degree) was selected by a republican-owned media and propped up as THE guy. Against this, the other more qualified candidates had no chance. They couldn't get press if they'd lit themselves on fire while an Obama SNEEZE was somehow newsworthy! In the face of this media onslaught Hillary still managed to hold her own, despite the near constant attacks on her. Now, with the primary season nearly at an end, the Obama campaign's supporters are DESPERATE for her to drop out because they know Hillary has a better than good chance of beating him at the convention.

[Lucinda]

12. Yup.

[smalll]

13. Caucuses in empty states, pretty much --

An Obama voter heads off to an empty-state caucus to vote for his strange new god (thus reifying his intellectual specialness, even though he ended up on the tenure track at East Bumfuck Community College rather than at Berkeley or Bryn Mawyr.)

[Carrieyazel]

14. Going all-out: $20 million spent in Iowa instead of skipping it.

They detested caucuses from the beginning, so why compete in one in a state that was a lost cause for her? Go hard and furious in New Hampshire and Nevada from the get-go, get decisive victories there, and brush off Iowa by saying you didn't compete there, and any victory there by the others was hollow. That strategy didn't hurt McCain.

The Time article had a lot of good reasons why, but it missed her biggest mistake, IMO.

[WA98070]

15. Her negatives are too high. We want change. She hasn't proven she is truly for change...

except of her positions.

Oops, sorry I'm a Kucinich person.

[Lilith Velkor]

16. Hawkishness, media bias, better organization on the O-camp's part, and bad luck

In no particular order.