It's just disgraceful there are virtually no Hillary Clinton

[cboy4]

supporters bothering to discuss the results in West Virginia.

It just goes to show that all of the bullying has worked to drive them away from DU.

It's why skinner has so appropriately called this "the worst fund drive ever."

[grantcart]

1. and that their math skills were a lot better than they were pretending

Even Carville admits that its over and isn't sticking around for the 'huge' landslide win for a state with 5 electoral votes.

They don't all suck at math...
Crazed, bespectacled fetus look-a-like James Carville sees the handwriting on the wall:



James Carville has been one of Hillary Clinton's most energetic defenders, but on Monday he all but declared Barack Obama will become the Democratic nominee for president.

Speaking to students at Furman University in Greenville, South Carolina, Carville argued Clinton should stay in through the final nominating contest in early June, but said the Democratic tide appears to be moving in Obama's direction.

"I still hear some dogs barking," Carville said, according to The State newspaper. "I'm for Senator Clinton, but I think the great likelihood is that Obama will be the nominee. As soon as I determine when that is, I'll send him a check," he added.

[grantcart]

6. From the Daily Kos

Assuming a 19/9 delegate split coming out of WV, Hillary Clinton will still end up netting zero delegates today.

Follow after the jump for the math.

* Steve Simitzis's diary :: ::
*
but cable got to sell a lot of ads and you had a nice feeling for the night

good for you - but it simply is not significant - don't blame the Obama people because the rest of the Clinton supporters have finally admitted what the rest of the country has known for a long time


Here's how it breaks down for the day:

+10 Hillary: WV win.

+6 Obama: Superdelegate endorsements for 5/13/2008.

+1 Obama, -1 Hillary: One pledged delegate switches from Hillary to Obama.

+2 Obama: Two more pledged delegates from Ohio from provisional ballots.

TOTAL:

+9 Hillary, +9 Obama

In other words, Hillary's "big win" was a wash, netting exactly zero delegates for either candidate.

UPDATE: A commenter suggests that the split may end up as 20/8. Even so, she'd end up with +2 delegates for the day. When I wrote this, the split was 16/7, or +1 Obama for the day.

[WeDidIt]

107. And I think Obama tried hard to insure Hillary had her day, too.

Sadly, I think Obama tried to hold back on the super delegate announcements today to insure Hillary had a guaranteed net delegate pickup day, but it wasn't to be. Ohio finished with their results and then you had a pledged delegate flip, shich Obama had no idea was coming.

[iconicgnom]

145. heh, Carville == "Uncle Duke" n/t

[texshelters]

198. Clinton needs

at least 69% in the remaining states. It's not going to happen.

Tex Shelters

[GarbagemanLB]

2. Haven't you seen the threads where the deranged posted WV as a 'turning-point' in the campaign?

[PoliticalAmazon]

178. No kidding! Also, it is illogical to blame Obama supporters for lack of Hillary supporters'...

...activism for their candidate.

Hillary supporters have already shown (as a group) that when it comes to activism to supoport their candidates, they don't match Obama supporters. Hillary supporters have not chosen to sufficiently fund Hillary's campaign, nor have they turned out in the megadroves to do volunteer work.

Perhaps some of the Hillary supporters share Hillary's "Me first, who cares about you" approach? The fact that they have not funded Hillary's campaign or sufficiently supported her with volunteer efforts speaks volumes for how much they are willing to invest in getting their candidate into the GE.

[2rth2pwr]

3. My flame retardant pajamas are wearing thin.

[Wetzelbill]

12. you're hardcore, I'll give you that

Pretty dedicated too. :)

[dchill]

164. Don't worry - your Depends will still protect you.

[2rth2pwr]

188. LOL!

[Texas Hill Country]

177. true dat

[jgraz]

4. Seriously, what's there to discuss?

She got her symbolic win among hard-working white Americans, now it's time to rally around our nominee.

[cboy4]

7. I can't believe you're so threatened by discourse.

So threatened that you had to post a racist remark.

Just terrible.

[jgraz]

9. Don't like your candidate's base? That's what she calls them

Hard working. White. Americans. Hillary's own words. Nice to see you finally admitting how terribly, terribly racist she really is.

[cboy4]

15. Let it out jgraz.

What an angry group of people you are.

[jgraz]

20. Gee, I wonder what could possibly have made us angry?

Maybe we just don't like dishonest, race-baiting DLC hacks with an over-inflated sense of their own entitlement. So sue us.

[cboy4]

27. You better have a talk with yourself jgraz....because if you

think Obama will beat McCain with only your small percentage of far left wingers in the Democratic Party voting for him, you are in for a God-awful surprise in November.

[jgraz]

32. Hey, jgraz!

Yes, jgraz?

Do you think we need a bunch of bitter dead-enders who couldn't even get their own well-funded, household-name candidate through a primary where she was heavily favored?

Why no, jgraz, I don't think we do.

My thoughts exactly, jgraz.

[cboy4]

38. Jgraz can't even have an honest discussion with himself.

Because jgraz believes Obama can win with a divided party....just like jgraz actually believes Democrats would ever consider electing Dennis Kucinich. lol

[jgraz]

43. You overestimate the size of your "coalition"

Most Hillary voters are reasonable people who don't need their asses kissed in order to do the right thing for their party and their country. If you're not in that group, you're going to be very lonely indeed come November.

[cboy4]

47. I've already said for many months that I am voting for the

Democrat.

And look at you finally saying something decent about Hillary people.

I'm glad I was able to convince you to start understanding that Obama voters minus Hillary voters in November will equal a McCain White House.

[jgraz]

51. My point is that there are very few "Hillary voters" left

Even you are now an Obama voter. A few sore losers won't matter in the end.

[cboy4]

53. No, I'm not an Obama voter....I'm a Democratic Nominee

voter.

I will be holding my nose for that candidate, if it turns out to be him.

[jgraz]

56. Good enough

Anyone who still needs convincing is not worth the effort, IMHO..

[Spider Jerusalem]

64. I seriously have to question your intelligence.

You think that Hillary can win with a divided party, after alienating the majority of African-American voters (the most consistent and reliable voting bloc in the Democratic coalition)? Please, explain to me how that becomes possible. (Not to mention that the question of whether Hillary might win is, at this point, moot; she will not be the nominee of the party.)

If the party is divided it's Clinton herself who's done the dividing; if Clinton supporters are bitter that she lost, that's too fucking bad and they need to suck it up, because if they actually hapen to be Democrats, then they would certainly rather see Obama elected than McCain.

[cboy4]

66. I never said Hillary can win with a divided party, did I?

Now then, would you like to address the OP:

It's just disgraceful there are virtually no Hillary Clinton

supporters bothering to discuss the results in West Virginia.

It just goes to show that all of the bullying has worked to drive them away from DU.

It's why skinner has so appropriately called this "the worst fund drive ever."

[Spider Jerusalem]

70. If they decided to take their ball and go home, that's their problem.

She's lost. The results from West Virginia do not change that fact. Celebrating her hollow victory there is just whistling past the graveyard, and perhaps some of her supporters are actually smart enough to realise that.

[cboy4]

79. No Spider. The correct answer is they've been chased into

the night with pitchforks and torches.

And if this place wasn't so hostile, maybe the Hillary supporters you believe do feel the race is over would be willing to talk about it .. what's next .. etc.

There should be lots of things to discuss -- even if one's candidate is not going to be the nominee.

Yet, it's not happening.

Shame on you Spider and all of your little Obama fans who are responsible for smothering dialog.

[Spider Jerusalem]

90. 'Chased into the night with pitchforks and torches'?

Hyberbole, much?

[americanstranger]

171. The hostility runs both ways and you know it.

It's a tad disingenuous to accuse Obama supporters exclusively of 'bullying' and 'hostility.'

If I had a dime for every time I've been called an 'Obamabot' or a 'cult member' by Clinton supporters, I could pay off a good chunk of Clinton's campaign debt.

Even in your post above that decries the hostility of Obama supporters, you let slip with the 'little Obama fans' dig which reveals that you've got a little hostility going on yourself.

I don't excuse the actions of the more aggressive Obama supporters here. Their actions have gone over the top in many instances.

But I expect you to be as honest regarding those on your side, and right now you're not being honest.

Hostility has come from both camps. Agree?

- as

[RandomKoolzip]

175. "Chased into the night with pitchforks and torches," "Lynched," etc....

Jesus, you Hillary supporters sure like using the most inflammatory and insensitive language to make your melodramatic points. If you seriously think heated discussion on an obscure message board is equal in violence or importance to a REAL witch hunt or a REAl lynching, you're fucking batshit crazy.

In any event, y'all need to notch the hyperbole down about twelve notches. :eyes: You keep using examples like that and after a while people will take you even less seriously than they do now (which is saying something).

[mrbluto]

91. "Suck it up" - that's a vote getter.

Yeah - every time I hear "Suck it up" it's somebody supporting Obama.

Real damn inspiring. Especially coming from the people who showed such disrespect for the candidate I preferred. (Edwards)

Not only does it betray a tin-ear for what it will take for any sort of unity come the general election, it's probably a good indicator of how my interests are going to get handled over the course of four years of an Obama administration. (if there is one)

Oh joy!

Can you blame us for not being overly enthused?

I want the Republicans out of power and I'm nauseated by the attitude I'm getting clubbed over the head with. How do you think independents and republicans are going to feel?

Some Obama supporters around here are falling to that old hazard - they're becoming like the monsters they intended to fight. Not sure they were that different to begin with.

[SammyWinstonJack]

160. ...

:thumbsup:

[hfojvt]

93. How did we get so divided?

Did it happen when a certain candidate who was in it to win it, stayed in and started a scorched earth campaign even after it was clear she had lost it?

[cboy4]

96. Even your own candidate is on record as saying he

doesn't think Hillary should drop out.

I believe what you call a scorched earth campaign, is democracy at its finest .. It's wonderful that so many voters in "late states" are getting the opportunity to vote.

But most importantly, none of what you wrote justifies bullying away Hillary Clinton DUers.

[hfojvt]

102. yeah, he has to say that, to keep a certain percentage of voters in late states

from voting against him out of spite. I'm on record saying that she shouldn't drop out either, just cut out the scorched earth bullsh*t. That ABC 'debate' was not democracy at its finest. Throwing a bunch of crap at your Democratic opponent while praising the Republican is not democracy at its finest. Promoting Republican talking points to tear down your Democratic opponent is also not liberalism at its finest.

Who said anything about bullying? I'm not talking about that, just responding to your claim that the Democratic Party is divided to the point that it might lose this fall.

I don't condone bullying. Heck, I think it's kinda too bad that we can't discuss issues with Republicans on this board. There are several trends that are annoying though. 1) the inability to discuss - for months I have not found many Hillary supporters who were willing to engage. It's not a discussion if you just tell the other person to shut up, or fu$% off, or that there a moran (sic). If you look at David Zephyr's thread, there are not many Clinton supporters making substantive arguments. 2) An 'argument' that degenerates into "ignorant centrists outnumber you, so neither you nor your facts are relevant - Go Joementum!!"

[Zhade]

More like calling it out - your bullshit, that is.

He got you with her own words.

[Clintonista2]

123. Ahh so that's who all those "Ignored" are

[cboy4]

130. Yea....be happy you can't read any of it.

:puke:

[rodeodance]

161. Thanks for your OP.

[cboy4]

163. Oh, it's my pleasure. It needed to be said.

:pals:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

181. Yeah right, cboy. I bet I can make you angry right now with 2 words:

Donnie. McClurkin.

:evilgrin:

[mrbluto]

60. Racist? Are you serious?

Look - line up this country. Put the guys wearing the Ku Klux Klan hoods at one end and then work your way toward the other by placing the next closest, but less racist person. It's a line about 300 million people long. Opposite the Ku Klux Klan guys it's mainly babies who don't know what racism even is.

Where does Hillary end up on this line?

Bottom (racist) half? I don't think so.

She's no saint, but I don't think she'd be in a range any reasonable person would call racist. And even if, by some super postmodern theorist's wet dream of a definition, she was technically one then I say the term would have lost all meaning at that point.

But not it's usefulness.

No, if you wanted to short-circuit a discussion all you'd have to do is find some pretense (like a snippet of her answering a loaded question about demographics), pull the pin and toss it into any discussion you didn't want to be rational.

Congratulations!

Discussion rendered nigh-useless.

I'd go into further detail, but I'm sure you have other dialogs to render useless elsewhere, I don't want to keep you.

Sayanora!

[jgraz]

63. Where is Hillary? She's the one handing out the hoods.

I don't think for a second that Hillary is personally racist -- any more than I think she is personally Christian, Democrat or pro-choice. Racism is just another issue she's more than happy to cynically use to further her own blind ambition.

[mrbluto]

75. You dodge the essential point of my post.

Which is you basically flinging the term around like a weapon.

Let me ask you this: do you think Obama doesn't have some guy handling the demographics and polling in his campaign and that, if he does exist, that that guy doesn't have numbers for how much people of various ethnicities support him? Do you think he, or whoever helps him with his speeches, doesn't consider what will play to those various groups?

I've talk to people, many people, on this board who have reasoning that's basically saying "It's our turn!"

Turn? Who's "Turn"?

That really bothers me.

It's not that someone other than a white guy might get in - jeeze, that might really help. No, it's this weird token-ism and the fact that people are turning off rational thought.

Many of the wrong lessons are going to get learned is what I think.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

180. *snort* I can't believe he just did that! The cluelessness of some Hillbots is boundless.

:rofl:

[Tunkamerica]

14. huh?

just saying white doesn't make something racist.

[cboy4]

19. Of course just saying white doesn't make something racist...

It's the context.

You people would be going through the roof if anyone made a comment about how Obama got his symbolic win against black voters.

HYPOCRISY ALERT

[jgraz]

21. Right... when Hillary says it, it's not racist. There's your context.

[Tunkamerica]

22. it is mentioned constantly that Obama does well

with black voters. The difference I guess you're implying is something about symbolism? This win for Hillary wasn't symbolic at all. To be a symbol it has to mean something.

[redstate_democrat]

26. Wow

Barack Obama has won this nomination.

He has won more states

He has won more delegates

He has won more popular vote

He has won more super delegates

He has forced Hillary's campaign into Chapter 13 bankruptcy

He has raised unprecedented amounts of money from small donors

He has registered more new voters and brought in more new people to the Democratic party than ever before

He has garnered more media exposure and excitement around his campaign that any candidate in decades

He is bringing along independents at staggering rates

and most importantly, he is a great Democrat

What about this set of facts makes it so difficult to support him? It's not like he voted for the IWR, Kyl-Lieberman, peddled a "gas tax holiday", dismissed Democratic party activists, didn't have a plan to actually win, etc.

Clearly he is the superior candidate. Watching the way he has handled himself over the past few months has convinced me that he would also be the superior commander in chief and president of this country. He has great people around him who are dedicated to him and to making his candidacy a success, and he himself is just a very principled, honorable person. These qualities make a great leader. No, he may not be a lyrical policy wonk, capable of rattling of the latest figures from some RAND study, but he has something far greater than the ability to wonk wonk wonk to people. He has the ability to inspire folks who have been beaten down these past 8 years. He gives them hope and lets them know they matter. He has the ability to touch people and have the work their hearts out for him. He has a movement. With everything out there that is working against him, he has managed to remain calm under fire. This is the type of leader I want. Not someone who dismisses people because they aren't part of this or that group or they live in a state that he doesn't need. Not someone who will pander to get a vote. Not someone who has managed to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory. Someone has has solid principles, a solid core, a solid set of beliefs that are inflexible, someone who will stand for what he believes in regardless of the political costs. This is the type of character that a president must have. I trust that he will appoint only the best people who also have these same qualities, not just the smartest and brightest, but those with solid character. I trust that he will listen and not steamroll people because they have a differing view. He has a very evenhanded approach to people and politics and this is what we desperately need in order to get anything done in Washington.

[Kaleko]

82. Absolutely wonderful post. You said it so I don't have to. Thanks!

[mrbluto]

92. He won't have to steamroll people.

He's got followers on DU who will do that unasked and for free.

[reflection]

141. Now that is a good post.

Great job. I wish I could write half as well.

[ForeignSpectator]

103. He used hillary clinton's OWN words. If you think his remark was racist, how about hillary?

BTW : Is that Jason Newsted?

[cboy4]

112. Yea, it's Jason.

[bvar22]

191. "hard working white Americans" is a racist remark?

You Better tell Hillary.

[Darth_Kitten]

147. Rally around the cause, eh?

:eyes:

[Secret_Society]

5. I'm Here

Let's discuss?

[Wetzelbill]

77. yeah

that would be great, Secret_Society, but the OP wasn't really looking for an adult discussion, they were looking to provoke a fight. But I will say, it was nice to see Hillary get this win, I hope she can find a way to be positive and get out of all of this on a good note. It's been a tough fight, so it's not easy to wind down and she's been a great candidate.

[Wetzelbill]

8. I don't think there is much to discuss really

She won the state, but has long since lost her shot at the nomination. It's amazing that the race was construed as an actual race for so long. It was effectively over when he routed her 11 in a row in February. The results for her look good in W. Va, but they don't mean much right now, not in terms of the nomination. And I don't think Hillary supporters have been more bullied than Obama supporters. I've seen both sides do plenty of that. And I've also seen plenty of Hillary supporters around all week, so it isn't like they just got beat on and quit. They're around. Plus I see lots of talking being done on the results, by Hillary, Obama and neutral supporters alike.

[cboy4]

11. You have been hit over the head with a hammer and are

woozy if you actually "don't think Hillary supporters have been more bullied than Obama supporters."

You should seek immediate first aid for your head trauma Wetzelbill.

[jgraz]

17. Leave it to a Hillster to whine about bullying while bullying someone

Pretty impressive, cboy.

[Wetzelbill]

25. you know who the most bullied are?

The majority of DUers who support either candidate or remain neutral and conduct themselves in a proactive classy manner. I've seen several good DUers who have been here for years leave DU because of what's been going on for the last several months. One of those good people are better than a thousand of the people who have been making this forum a miserable place to be this year. Not you, jgraz, I'm just saying, this is what the level of discourse has become around here.

[jgraz]

33. Just think, you can tell your grandkids you were there for the Great DU Meltdown of 08

Should be worth a story or two.

[Wetzelbill]

40. I used to think the Dean Wars were bad

That was like invading Granada as opposed to the WW2 we're seeing now. :) I get the feeling that a lot of people on DU have spent an important time in history nastily arguing with each other. Hillary and Obama, a woman and a black man, each with the best shot of becoming president that someone of their respective gender and race has ever had. Historic. Just unbelievable in fact. I feel proud to have been watching it all these months. Think in the future people will write books and make movies about this. Win Pulitzers. This time will be studied for all of human history. And the only thing some people can say for it is they argued like maniacs during most of it. :)

[cboy4]

41. See how nice he was, fibbing that you're not one of the people

he thinks is making this place "miserable"?

[jgraz]

48. I'm not sure bill appreciates you calling him a liar.

Personally, I couldn't care less what your opinion of me is. No competent judge of character would still be backing your candidate at this point.

[Wetzelbill]

74. that's because we get along and have for quite awhile

I also said "Not you" because I didn't want jgraz to think I was trying to start a fight over what was just posted. I was replying, not trying to fight.

You yourself deride this place in your OP. So if I say the same thing, but as it applies to all the people who make it that way and not just singling out one group of people, my "miserable" ends up in quotes. Yeah, it is miserable around here. For more reasons than you try to make it out to be, and not just one person's supporters are responsible for it.

[donheld]

58. Cboy, the constant bully whining about bullies

Isn't that precious.

[cboy4]

59. You're one of the most ridiculous Obama fans here donheld.

Please take a bow.

[donheld]

69. While I'm bowing why don't you kiss my ass?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

119. How Can He Kiss Your Ass?

It's the fucking net...

It reminds me of when I was kid about ten years old in a New York City playground...

One kid , about tweleve, said to another kid, during a heated exchange of words "suck my dick"...The kid said "whip it out"... Low and behold he did...

[Wetzelbill]

18. you're just blind to it

I'm impartial, and I've seen it from both sides. Obama supporters started off worse, but Hillary supporters - some not all - started to get downright crazed over the last month or so. They haven't been, it's just that one side always thinks they are always the most bullied. Guess what, it works both ways. It's a kind of a joke really, whenever one side or the other feels slighted the hysterical minority in each camp will cry foul over how mean the opposing side is.

So no, I haven't been hit over the head, I just have stood back and watched you all fight your petty little battles.

[mrbluto]

65. Not just "Hillary Supporters"

I liked Edwards for president.

The zealots were relentless.

It's like they were trying out to be extras on a Faux news production.

Many Obama supporters have shown themselves to have an absolute tin-ear, nor any sense of taste, mercy, or even what's in their candidate's interest.

Edwards suspended his campaign. (probably in part due to the ill health of his wife and the realization that the MSM had decided he wasn't going to be given comparable airtime since he want part of the "woman vs. a black" story they wanted to have happen.)

What did the zealots do?

They still derided and insulted and disrespected - they practically chortled with glee.

Nauseating.

[cboy4]

67. Well, I voted for Edwards in the California Primary, even

though he had dropped out by then.

So I hear you.

[MadBadger]

71. That's not what I saw

When Edwards' suspended, people were pretty respectful. Respect diminished when it became time to talk endorsements however.

[redqueen]

194. I do remember that actually...

I don't know how many were in on it... but I remember the crap... along the lines of "see, edwards supporters? he LIED to you! how do you feel about your faux-populist hero NOW?"

*sigh*

[zabet]

10. Pointless. Who wants to get piled-on everytime they post?

Not me. It is a waste of time. Worst fundraiser ever! 'Cause this place currently is one of the 'worst places ever' for a Clinton supporter.

[Wetzelbill]

28. what!?! You moved from the Wetzelbill/Kurovski camp?

I know who my friends are now. :)

[zabet]

159. ....

:spray: YOU are one of the few that still crack me up! :hi:

[Wetzelbill]

199. I am always here to entertain.

:)

[Blue_State_Elitist]

13. Go Hillary! (Takes Cover)

[Lady-Damai]

16. It would be very hard for HRC supporters to donate to DU now.....

20 million debt is a big problem. Hopefully, HRC can *loan* herself some more money.

[cboy4]

23. My favorite part is reading about how some Obama fans

are publicly thanking others for their stars.

They have money to throw at Obama.

50 cents to give to DU so they have a place to write? Not a chance.

Worst fund raiser ever.

[samdogmom]

89. Ummm--if you subtract the $11.5 +/- (?) million she lent her campaign

her debt is actually much smaller ...approximately $8.5 million. She BETTER pay back all the little guys (esp. the Iowa people who have been waiting for a L-O-N-G time to be reimbursed for helping her. I'll bet they're all sorry now!!!!) and then let the rest of the debts fester (i.e.--her two personal loans!). In addition, WHO cares if Mark Penn gets another dollar--let alone--millions from Hillary???? He proved to be a debacle. He doesn't deserve another RED CENT!

[Stop Cornyn]

24. What's to discuss? She won by a landslide but she would have to do at least that well in every

contest from here on out for it to matter.

Are you anticipating similar results in Oregon? If not, then you too anticipate Hillary will ultimately lose.

[cboy4]

31. It's worth discussing. And it would be nice having more

Hillary supporters weighing in on things.

But they've been successfully chased away.

Mission Accomplished. :patriot:

[Stop Cornyn]

42. Have they been chased away or have they given up? The later option seems more rational.

[cboy4]

45. No they've been chased away....the abuse they received here

is equal, if not arguably worse, than what they would encounter at Free Republic, et al.

[Stop Cornyn]

50. The Obama supporters have been reprehensible in GD-P, but the Hillary supporters have been only

fractionally better.

While Hillary still stood a slim chance of success, her supporters withstood the slings and arrows, which the served as well as received, but now that it's over, it just seems that it isn't worth the trouble for them (and who can blame them?).

To me, that sounds more like they resigned rather than they were chased away.

[theHandpuppet]

117. Yep...

See, I was under the mistaken impression that if/when I ever wanted to be called a racist or trailer trash, I could pop over to Free Republic for a masochistic exercise. I now know I don't have to go any farther than DU.

And the mods wonder why the fund raising drive is going so badly... maybe it's because many of the folks who were actually paying the bills have been hounded off this forum.

[Arkansas Granny]

154. I haven't been chased away, nor have I given up.

I have gotten tired of trying to have a discussion with a group of people who apparently take great delight in calling me and other supporters of Senator Clinton racist, bigoted, ignorant, uninformed or worse. My opinion is neither respected nor valued. I am ridiculed because I continue to support the candidate of my choice instead of falling in line with those who appear to think that we are selecting the winner of American Idol instead of the President of our country.

The candidate I choose to support has been called some of the most vile names I can think of and her opponent's supporters cheer and urge each other on, because, they claim, she brought it on herself. Don't they realize that's the argument that perpetrators of domestic violence use to vindicate their behavior against their victims? They dredge up any shred of garbage thay they can find or manufacture to smear her with, even if it is based on nothing but rumor that started with the RW smear machine.

For all their talk and bluster of supporting the candidate that they claim represents hope and change, they have become what they claim to despise. They have turned into a group of hateful, spiteful dittoheads who are more interested in bashing their opponents supporters into submission than they are in having a reasonable discussion of issues. Many of them brag about ignore lists that number in the hundreds. These people don't want discussion, they want an echo chamber. Their minds are made up, don't confuse them with facts. How can you hope to have any kind of discourse with posters like that?

[Stop Cornyn]

156. I don't think there is much respect for other people's opinions about our best candidate in GD-P,

but I don't think the lack of respect is limited to supporters of one candidate or another.

Still, I agree that the Obama supporters have been the worst.

[sufrommich]

182. I wish I could recommend a post.Well put. nt

[Wetzelbill]

46. you know even then it wouldn't matter

She could win landslides from here on out and not catch him. She had to be perfect to win the nomination two months ago after he won 11 in a row. Now she needs him to wake up in bed with a dead midget and a horse. She put up a good fight, but at some point, you run out of time and it's over, you know? She did great tonight, but there isn't much to discuss as you said.

[MadBadger]

29. Not a Hillary supporter, but Id like to have a genuine, open, and honest discussion

What do you want to talk about?

[cboy4]

34. I would like to talk about how the Democrats should

be able to defeat such a horrible candidate as John McCain, even with Hillary staying in the race.

But more importantly, I'd like to hear what Hillary Clinton supporters think.

But they've been run off into the darkness.

You'd think a lot of them would be on the board tonight after this stomping, yet the silence is overwhelmingly deafening. :(

[MadBadger]

36. They're at Capital Hill. They hang out there and chat.

[cboy4]

49. Why are they there and not here hnmnf?

Thank you in advance for your fair answer.

[MadBadger]

52. Its a private board there

They are more free to say what they want without having to deal with DU being overrun by Obama supporters. Many of them who are there have been TSed, like Jackson_dem, cyberpiehole, kennedyguy, libbygurl, etc. In Capital Hill, they have a private forum of their own where they can discuss Hillary and trash Obama and DUers and not have any retribution. They would ay they have it in a response to the way they are treated on DU, and there is some truth to that. But I would argue that they arent exactly innocent in all this.

[cboy4]

55. It's a shame they all left, isn't it? Look at this forum...it's the

same dozen or two people posting night after night, instead of a wide range of DUers.

I have no idea how Obama supporters can even begin to find all of this preaching to the choir entertaining or educational.

[MadBadger]

57. I dont, I enjoy healthy debate with somebody I disagree with

The problem is that its gotten so vile, that as an Obama supporter, I see only a handful of Clinton supporters that I respect on DU anymore. I dont respect any of them at that board because Ive seen the vile that has been posted. But there are some here that I respect and I like to engage in debate with, but they arent always here that often. Those people also will vote for Obama in the general while the people over at that board will not.

[cboy4]

61. Exactly. There are some here that you respect and like to

engage in debate with, but they aren't always here that often.

I wonder why hnmnf?

[MadBadger]

68. Two reasons. One cuz there are a bunch of ass holes here and two because Hillary will lose.

And that has to be disheartening. Ive always said this and it is completely true. There are probably nine times as many Obama supporting ass holes on DU as there are Clinton ones. But there are also nine times more Obama supporters on DU as a whole (maybe 7 or 8), so it is to be expected.

[cboy4]

73. LOL.....I like having you around hnmnf ,, I don't particularly

like your candidate, but you sound like a smart person and I enjoy reading your point of view. :)

[MadBadger]

76. Thanks...and sometimes I'm an ass hole

I have all this information on their board not by asking, but being deceptive and posing as a Clinton supporter :-)

[cboy4]

83. That seems a little obsessive, but I admire your evil

ways.

[MadBadger]

85. At first, I just wanted to check it out

Than I saw what it was, how some organized to get two DUers banned, so I decided to keep an eye on it and warn others about their tactics, telling them to be careful and such.

[redqueen]

196. "how some organized to get two DUers banned"

Oh. My. God.

If that ain't some delicious irony right there...

[LostinVA]

138. How do you have time for this with finals?

I hope you're keeping your grades up.

[Lannigan]

148. Wow, a lot of time on your hands

Make you feel like a little 12 y.o. playing "spy games" again? Is that why you do it?

WTF do you CARE about what Clinton supporters are saying in another forum?

Grow up. Please. The real world is so much more important than all of this.

[golddigger]

168. Lol, pathetic. You have tried to infiltrate 20 times and you still can't get in.

So, here's my tribute to you...Oh, Momma Mia, Oh, Momma Mia, let me go...:rofl:

[LostinVA]

136. So do you -- why don't you love us enough to admit it?

[New Dawn]

30. False, there are Clintonites spamming stuff here all the time.

[bridgit]

35. An act of magnanimity? The routed numbers will too easily make other heads explode...

Better to remain a river than a rock. A still mountain lake & stuff

[ccharles000]

37. I am a Hillary supporter.

And I am still here and am very happy about today.

[Wetzelbill]

44. and you should be

She did great. Good for her. She's in a position where she almost certainly can't win the nomination, but she's been a great candidate. I love Hillary, she's an icon. I love Obama too. It's been an epic battle and it's drawing to a close. I feel priveleged to have watched history in the making.

[dailykoff]

39. Hillary can't afford overtime any more.

Wait til business resumes tomorrow.

[boppers]

54. How's she doing at that fundraising thing, anyways?

She seems to be pulling in the cash, right?


Right?


Do you think maybe DU will benefit more from somebody who brings in 3 times the amount, or one third the amount?

[Petrushka]

72. Hm-m. "Do you think maybe DU will benefit more...?" if you, too, had your very own star? LOL

:spank:

[cboy4]

84. Yea boppers....can't even pony up 50 cents to keep

ObamaUnderground.com in business?

Shameful.

[boppers]

105. Yes, it's all about me.

Look at my posting history, and my 35 years of experience.

I'll be ready to fund DU on day one!

:rofl:

[rodeodance]

129. Obama outspent Hillary 2;1 in WV. He threw your $$ away.

[Doityourself]

134. Rodeo, Hillary needs $$ ...don't wast time sending it...

[rodeodance]

135. Obama wasted your $$ in WV

[Doityourself]

137. That's fine by me...he's still whipping her good..and he's not 20 mil in debt...

[LostinVA]

139. Where's your star?

[last_texas_dem]

62. It's not too much of a disgrace in my view

I've noticed a number of threads from hardcore Clinton supporters discussing (and greatly overestimating the worth of) the WV results, and they're just as obnoxious as the threads from the hardcore Obama supporters downplaying them.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cboy4]

86. I threw up when I read the thread you're referring to.

I don't blame you for not wanting to discuss that, because I didn't either.

But there are **some** neutral threads that are worthy of discussion.

How sad and unfortunate for DU.

[TLM]

80. You mean these results.....

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=95263

[unlawflcombatnt]

81. I agree

But I'm not going to be intimidated by the mindless Obama cultists, and their nasty, dishonest commentary.

[cboy4]

87. That's good to hear.

:thumbsup:

[MadBadger]

94. And that right there is why Obama supporters hate many Clinton people on DU

"Mindless Obama Cultists"

[cboy4]

95. The name-calling goes both ways hnmnf.

It's not like your side doesn't make similar comments.

[MadBadger]

97. I'm know it does

Do you remember bidenista? bidenista would only post about five articles daily that referred to Obama supporters as cultists. Around the time of the State of the Union and Super Tuesday, there was nothin but Obama supporters are mindless cultists who will follow their leader everywhere, which is extremely offensive to Obama people like myself. Doesnt it suck that the argument for it is that the other side does it too?

[cboy4]

100. No, it sucks that you're implying that I think it's okay what

he said because the other side does it.

That isn't my "argument."

I'm saying if one is going to point out examples of bad behavior, one should also note that their side is not innocent of such bad behavior.

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

121. I Have Been Relatively Civil On This Board

I have been relatively civil on this board and can count on my dick the wholesale attacks I have made on Obama supporters... This hasn't protected me from their ire for even making the most innocuous observations...


One of the greatest offenders is in this thread...I'm tired of the bickering...

[mrbluto]

127. I guess the shoe fits - you decided to wear it.

Are you a mindless Obama cultist?

BTW how do you know that person is a Hillary supporter?

Maybe they just don't like dealing with the mindless.

[DemVet]

132. Truth hurts, huh?

[avrdream]

88. I'm around.

Just not sure about donating to this biased place anymore. Can't find reasonable discussion of the issues these days.

[cboy4]

98. This is a cool photo

[BigBearJohn]

99. Well, I guess DU has lost some of its magic. This is no longer a great

environment to share your opinions... unless
you want to beat somebody up and show how superior
your political stance is to the other.

If you ask me, more could be done to change the
"tone" of conversations here. I simply cannot
believe the vulgarity of some posters here.

It's almost as if you're taking your life in hands
if you post anything but good roads and fine weather
type things... or something about how absolutely
wonderful Obama is and how utterly dillusional, foolish and
degraded Hillary's supporters are.

[leftofcool]

101. I'm here. Not a lot of time to post...busy

[dcindian]

104. Hillarys operatives negative posting style worked.

It was said many months ago that the fact the Hillary supporters could not post any positive post about their candidate instead of the constant stream of negative Obama post would hurt them in the long run.

Should have listened.

[shaniqua6392]

106. Clinton supporters are not welcomed on DU.

They have had to go elsewhere with the exception of a few that don't mind being burned at the stake. LOL!!

[RichardRay]

108. Are you somehow making it the fault of Senator Obama's

supporters that there is no discussion of Senator Clinton's victory?

[cboy4]

110. Yes....the ones who are responsible for chasing away

Hillary supporters?

I am indeed faulting them.

[RichardRay]

113. What would you have me do at this point?

I prefer Senator Obama. I don't like the outcome, but I expected it. I believe the extent of any comment I've made on posts concerning WV has been to note a complete disagreement with the claim that it somehow creates a fundamental change in what's going on. I don't think it changes anything in the long run, but it does extend the struggle for another few days. But, I support Senator Obama, not Senator Clinton, so, beyond that I don't have much to say.

[cboy4]

116. Well Richard, if you're not one of the Obama fans whose

intentionally bullied away Hillary supporters, then I'm probably not referring to you.

You have every right to analyze and post == I just wish there were more Hillary supporters weighing in their opinions.

[Sancho]

111. I plan to vote for the Democratic candidate...but I agree.

The ugly threads have caused me to use the ignore for the first time, and I'm not checking DU as often. I think that all the candidates this year were better than Kerry. I've been flamed a few times for no reason.

[bowens43]

114. why discuss something that's meaningless?

If they want to discuss something, they should discuss how they justify hillary and effort to ensure that Obama loses the GE. Let them discuss how and why they still support hillary after she has shown herself to be morally and ethically bankrupt.

[MADem]

115. There is no point--they just pile on with the snark and invective.

There are better websites to talk about it, anyway. Leave this place to the Lords of The Flies.

[Perry Logan]

118. And yet the Clintophobes wallow in their disgrace like pigs in shit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5120659

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4779500&mesg_id=4779500

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4849238&mesg_id=4849238

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4922044&mesg_id=4922044

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4942967&mesg_id=4942967

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4964704&mesg_id=4964704

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4965088

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4965227

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4982708&mesg_id=4982708

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5036756

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5065868&mesg_id=5065868

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5156352&mesg_id=5156412

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5165104&mesg_id=5165104

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5180133&mesg_id=5181094

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5195072&mesg_id=5195072

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5204441&mesg_id=5204441

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5214352&mesg_id=5214352

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5226313&mesg_id=5226313

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5235825&mesg_id=5235825

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5304883

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5349292&mesg_id=5349292

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5392998&mesg_id=5392998

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5431535&mesg_id=5431535

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5431076&mesg_id=5431076

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5502064&mesg_id=5502064

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5571092&mesg_id=5571092

[MethuenProgressive]

190. I bet that collection didn't take you five minutes,

When asked 'where's the HillHate?' I usually just link to the Greatest page.

[WinkyDink]

120. Que sera, sera. It will be interesting to see what names are still here for the GE.

I.e., will the trolls take leave?

[cornermouse]

128. Define trolls.

Also consider more seriously the possibility that you have chased away real democrats who decided to never come back for any more abuse.

[Marrah_G]

122. Why bother when every good thread gets shit all over.

Better to save the good threads for a more hospitable site.

[tpsbmam]

124. THAT'S why people aren't contributing as usual? Hmmmmmm, lemme see....

gas prices at almost $4/gallon, people losing their houses, food costs up significantly, many people can't even afford to drive to their jobs, etc etc etc. But it's a known fact that people aren't contributing because "bullying has worked to drive them away from DU." Please, don't insult the intelligence of DU members. For sure, that's a factor in some people not contributing or not contributing as much as they might otherwise but really, it doesn't help your argument when you make blanket statements like that.

[theHandpuppet]

126. I personally know PLENTY of old time DUers who've left...

... and are NOT coming back because they finally reached their limit for being shat upon by the Obama Guard. It's become quite obvious that as long as you support Obama you can post virtual rivers of bile on this forum without consequence. As a West Virginian and Hillary supporter, I can attest -- from the last few days alone -- how vicious this forum has become.

Am I surprised the fundraising drive is going so poorly? Nope. I'm only surprised some of the head honchos at DU seem clueless as to why this has happened.

[lojasmo]

125. What's to discuss?

It was predicted she'd win by big margins, she won by big margins...it changes nothing.

[DemVet]

131. I agree.

I've got my credit card ready for this fund drive, but I'll wait and see how things turn out. NO, it is not dependent on an Obama loss and HRC win, but the general feel of this site once a "presumptive Nominee" is announced.

If people whine about the fact that I will continue to criticize Obama's record and policies in an appropriate fashion, a decision will have to be made.

[Snarkturian Clone]

133. I wish that the percentage of Clinton supporters on DU was equal

to the percentage of Clinton supporters in the U.S. so that there can be an even and rational discussion. I've stayed out of most GDP threads because I don't want to be lumped in with the nastiness and bullying I've seen supporters from both sides engage in. I would even go so far as to say that the Clinton supporters are lashing out defensively against the vast majority of Obama supporters that are bullying them. It's a shame, really.

[Straight Shooter]

176. Congratulations, Snarkturian Clone, I'm donating a star to you

You observe and comment without being judgmental. Thanks for keeping the discourse civil and positive.

I'm passing on the goodwill gesture of an Obama supporter who donated a star to me. :D

[Snarkturian Clone]

184. WOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks!!!!

It's much appreciated!!!

[Straight Shooter]

185. You're welcome.

:hi:

[reflection]

140. I wouldn't read too much into it.

I think most people understand the WV results are largely irrelevant given the state of the primary race.

[Darth_Kitten]

142. Bullies never win in the end.

Trust me, I'm not afraid of a few long-sounding bullies. :)

[greguganus]

143. nah....they are smarter than you and know that the results were racially motivated. n/t

[iamthebandfanman]

144. you must not have looked very hard

but hey,

when she says activists , grassroots, and those darn intellectuals dont matter... i wouldnt expect a place full of those thigs to embrace her.

i mean, i know i didnt have a dog in this race until she became negative a couple months ago.

its her own fault. she opened the gate on nastiness... so any shit she gets on herself is nobodys fault but her own.

[Renew Deal]

146. Sorry, but that's just not true.

There were plenty of Clinton people on last night talking about the election. A lot of them came out of the woodwork for a night. The fact is that there just aren't as many Clinton supporters on the internets. It's not a DU specific problem.

[cboy4]

151. Now that's funny

:spray:

[Renew Deal]

153. Sorry to shatter your little fantasy

But there were plenty pro-Hillary people here. I'm glad you got to pad your post count though. :thumbsup:

[cboy4]

155. Hurry, you have time to edit out the word "were" so you

don't contradict yourself and go on record agreeing with me that the Hillary people in fact were here, and were harassed and chased out of town. lol

[Renew Deal]

158. This is in the context of last night.

When you posted it. Hillary people weren't chased out. Some are weak like their candidate, but no one chased them out.

[cboy4]

162. mmmm hmmmmm.

[susankh4]

149. Just checking in!

Very happy about the results, too!

Sending her a little more of my hard earned cash today!!

[LowerManhattanite]

150. You know what?

There's no magical steel cyber-fist reaching through anyone's screen to beat anyone's hands away from their keyboards. It's a choice. Free will. No one is being “kept” from doing anything and to say that they are in the face of simple reality is just so much drama-queenery and griefer-speak.

You're here. Does that make you any braver and better than those who've OPTED NOT to post as much? No. It just means you've chosen to. No one is taking away your right or magically shoving gum under your keys to squelch communication.

What's happened? As the math has gone south for Sen. Clinton, and with each week gets worse in terms of pop vote available, delegates for the taking and the dreaded superdelegate shift (3.5 this morning AFTER WV's results), the fans have begun “heading for the exits”. People do it in big games where the outcome has become clear in the late innings or when the final whistle is near. Some rough play may be a catalyst for some people's de-camping, but the fact that they have not returned to celebrate the “victory” speaks just as much—if not more—about their opinion of the state of the race, as it does about a grossly overblown air of persecution.

They have made a choice.

No one's “stopping” anyone.

And the answer lies within—not without.

[Tarheel_Dem]

169. Well thought out and articulate post. I think DU reflects the national mood.

Many of the more rational supporters still love Hillary, but see no realistic path to the nomination at this point. James Carville said as much. :thumbsup:

P.S.: And it's quite obvious from the pleas Hillary issued last night for money, DU isn't the only fundraiser that Clinton supporters are boycotting.

[dionysus]

152. banky will make it all better;

[LoZoccolo]

157. I think it is because they are embarassed to discuss the role of racism in her victory there. n/t

[cboy4]

166. Uh huh...I stole this from another DUer but it's applicable:

[Tarheel_Dem]

170. That pic seems so unnecessary. But by using it here, you may have

opened the floodgates. I've got some really good ones Hillary, Bill & Chelsea, but out of respect for her supporters, I've refrained from posting them here. But, other Obama supporters might not be as considerate as I am. Really bad form, but you asked for it.

[LowerManhattanite]

172. Nah Tarheel...don't sink to that depth.

As Don Zaluchi said in “The Godfsther”...

“Let them lose their souls”.

Save the “ammo” for a worthy attack from someone worth it. This one? Not so much. :)

[Tarheel_Dem]

183. Thanks, I needed that. On the one hand, they call Obama supporters

bullies, and complain about incivility because some Clinton supporters have left or been banned, and then he produces a pic like that. The Clinton supporters, on this board, have absolutely no integrity left.

[yardwork]

195. You do what you accuse others of doing.

[GoldieAZ49]

165. Why bother? They won't see the flaws of Obama

even in a landslide loss Obama would have in the GE they will blame anyone but Obama

[Lucky 13]

167. I agree. It's your right... nay, your DUTY... to log on to DU and gloat about a meaningless victory

HOORAY!!! THIS MEANS NOTHING!!!!

:party: :woohoo: :applause: :)

[bigtree]

173. by your standard, certainly, you are 'gloating'

. . . for Obama.

How silly to equate support with 'gloating

[Occam Bandage]

174. What's there to discuss? It's over.

[NashVegas]

179. That's Because the West Virginia Results Are Meaningless, Of Course

As the peeps are all dumb racist rednecks. HC supporters need to run away from those numbers, pronto!

[Texasgal]

186. What is your point?

This is the 2nd thread in two days by you with nothing to say...

If you want to discuss it why don't you start a thread?

Be part of the solution... not the problem.

[JoFerret]

187. There has been a chilling atmosphere/ suppression of dissent

prevalent on DU for some time.

And too much of the discussion has been simplistic trading of fixed positions and/or insults.
There have been notable exceptions however. And they should be applauded.

[snooper2]

189. aw.....

you need a hug or something....

Don't worry, we will let Hillary INC. be Sec. of State or something :rofl:





GOBAMA!

[yardwork]

192. I'm not sure whether this is intended as a slam on Hillary supporters or a slam on Obama supporters.

It's possible that few are discussing the results in WV because there is very little to discuss. The results are as predicted, and nothing has changed in the primary race as a result, also as expected.

What would you expect people to be saying? "Hillary won big in West Virginia." "Mm-hm. Just like everybody thought she would." You think she won by a little larger margin than expected, Bob?" "Dunno, Trixie. I thought she might a done a little worse than expected. What you think, Ted?" "I dunno."

[Kaleva]

193. They are far too busy...

trying to revive the Clinton campaign.

[LSK]

197. you have been here since 2002 and you never realized Hillary was always hated here ??????

:wtf: