Half of all whites in WV said that Obama shares the same values as Rev. Wright.

[Leopolds Ghost]

In response to the "8 in 10 voters in West Virginia are NOT racist"
argument expressed by certain people on this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5958190

Before concern trolls say anything, let's de-muddy the waters further:

Hillary Clinton refused to assert that Barack Obama was a Christian.
Imagine if she had said "Evolution exists, as far as we've been told."

New York Times felt it appropriate to publish an editorial by a Reagan
insider, asserting that Obama was an apostate Muslim who Muslims would
seek to assassinate -- presumably setting up a narrative to be used by
parties unknown if Obama does not get "life insurance" in the form of
a radically populist running mate.

Juan Williams, a black conservative, said that electing a black man
would be a "historic mistake" for the Democratic party.

[ShortnFiery]

1. It's too bad that Barack Obama did not have a few weeks to campaign in WV.

I honestly believe that percentage would have dropped way down. :shrug:

[Elspeth]

4. What's sad is that a preacher could have so much influence on an election

:(

[theboss]

19. Yea....not so much

A few weeks would have just guaranteed an ugly incident of some kind in Buckhannon.

It was better this way.

[Heather MC]

49. I Think Edwards leaving his name on the ballot did more damage to Barack..

Did you here that he called Hillary last night to "congratulate" her
I think he called for one of 2 reasons
***RUMOUR ALERT****

1. Hillary our plan worked I did pull a good amount of his voters
or
2. Tomorrow I am endorsing Obama

If Edwards Endorses one or the other do they get his 18 delegates?

[Elspeth]

2. And how did they perceive Wright's values?

As anti-American?

As racist against Whites?

As crazy?

I don't know what was going through the electorate's mind.

[ericgtr]

3. 2 out of 10 said they would never vote for a black man as well

pretty scary.

[jasmine621]

5. 2 out of 10 said it. 6 out of 10 meant it. nt

[wvbygod]

6. and 3 out of 5 bigots failed math

and can't prove it.

[FrenchieCat]

9. Did you say it yet?

Just askin', cause it seems to be on your mind a lot.

[SwampG8r]

35. hi frenchie

you seem to be on a down slope with all the race talk here
i kind of like your posts and replies and if i can make you feel better i sure want to try

ok here goes frenchie
i am a 52 year old floridian and i fall into every one of hillaries comfort zones
i am solidly behind obama
and for myself race was never even a factor in my process
i listened to him speak and i was sold
he represents almost every positive trait an american can aspire to

we are coming into a new america frenchie
i sure want you there with me
chin up it aint all bad

[FrenchieCat]

43. Thank you for your support.....

I'm hanging from my chin.

But yes, there will be an America that represents what it says it represents come January, 2009.

It will be a new start for the future Generations of these United States of America.

:hi:

[SwampG8r]

44. my pleasure frenchie

i have seen you in here day after day responding rationally to posts that made my skin crawl for the ugliness of content
buti kind of noticed recently a streak of tired in you
too much of this i guess
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
I'm relatively new here and have seen a lot of your posts and replies and enjoyed them
i have heard all my life about the america we are supposed to have
when i was a child i heard about it while things like this were still common

a mixed message at best
i look at what has been in my lifetime and where we are right now today and I'm actually a little proud that we are ready at last ready to embrace our true greatness
i want the america a cuban believes in as hes drifting on a cooler in the gulf stream

[FrenchieCat]

45. I had to put many people on ignore,

or risk a broken heart.

[Seeker30]

11. And 90% of blacks wont vote for Hillary

what the fuck is your point?

[BenDavid]

7. But what obama and his campaign fail to realize, these are the folks

in all the blue states that he will have to win over if he is the nominee. It will be hard for obama to do this.

[DemGa]

8. Obama attended the church for twenty years

named his book for the man

Why is it racist to think Obama shares some of Wright's views?

[casus belli]

10. Why don't you enlighten us on what views he shares.

Based, of course, on his own words or acions...not those of Wright. If you can't, then it might be time for you to stop peddling it.

[DemGa]

13. You didn't answer my question

How is a Columbia and Harvard Law Grad oblivious to his surroundings for years on end? I haven't "peddled" anything - but neither do I believe Obama. His story is simply implausible.

So why is it racist to think Obama shares some of Wright's views?

[FredScuttle]

24. How can a Wellesley and Yale Law Grad be oblivious to the fact that her husband

has been screwing anything that's not nailed down for the past 30 years?

Does she condone infidelity?

[Raejeanowl]

41. Were Obama And Wright Married, With Children?

It boggles my mind how people continue to equate Senator Clinton's marital contract and family loyalty with Senator Obama's unstinting adherence to that church and mentor/acolyte relationship with that Pastor.

But all is well and it's over now and we should forget about it, right? I suppose Hillary's virginity will be renewed the moment she leaves Bill, and Bill's infidelities will be expunged, too, unless he gets out there and brags about them? Is that how it works in the kingdom of magical thinking?

It's completely preposterous to say Obama knew nothing about Wright's ideologies and doesn't carry at least some measure of taint by association. And he's having to deal with it; there's no doubt about that.

And if he "didn't know," he didn't have quite the same incentives as Clinton to "not know" by virtue of being in denial, does he?

It's a great thing Obama distanced himself. But it doesn't make the 20 years of having a certain comfort level with Wright's philosophies go away, in a relationship that was not familial and complex but purely one of his own voluntary choice. Like a problematic friend you make efforts (of your own initiative) to drop when it becomes obvious that the association is destructive, incompatible to your values, or otherwise no longer tenable; not wait until political pressure forces your hand.

Maybe what Clinton has been "condoning" is only marriage as a lifetime contract. A relationship that never really was any of the public's business. Whereas a secretly racist or separatist-sympathetic president would (should) be of urgent interest to us all.

[FredScuttle]

50. Why is a candidate's relationship with a pastor any more of our business than with a spouse?

If you're talking about "taint by association", do I really want as a President a figurative punching bag, a reverse cuckold whose spouse has embarassed her time and time again for the past three decades?

I agree that the comparisons are ridiculous. Obama's fealty is to his church, not a attention-loving pastor who only now has betrayed Obama's trust and loyalty. I consider him a candidate with a lot more integrity, honesty and self-respect than a woman who remains in a marriage of convenience to further her political career.

[casus belli]

29. he's not oblivious...YOU are.

Unless you really believe that the minute or so of sound bites you have heard were all he talked about for 20 years, in which case you're just delusional.

[DemGa]

34. No, I'm sure there's quite a bit more

But perhaps like the church bulletin in this article, they are all anomalies - for which Obama wasn't present.

JERUSALEM – Sen. Barack Obama's Chicago church published an open letter from a Palestinian activist that labels Israel an "apartheid" regime and claims the Jewish state worked on an "ethnic bomb" that kills "blacks and Arabs."

The letter, discovered by the blog Sweetness & Light, was published on the "Pastor's Page" of the Trinity United Church of Christ newsletter reserved for Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., whose anti-American, anti-Israel remarks prompted the presidential candidate to deliver a major race speech last week.

"I must tell you that Israel was the closest ally to the white supremacists of South Africa," wrote the letter's author, Ali Baghdadi. "In fact, South Africa allowed Israel to test its nuclear weapons in the ocean off South Africa. The Israelis were given a blank check: they could test whenever they desired and did not even have to ask permission. Both worked on an ethnic bomb that kills Blacks and Arabs."

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=59884

Church bulletin PDF

http://tucc.org/upload/tuccbulletin_june10.pdf

[casus belli]

37. Did you seriously just quote a World Net Daily piece?

I think we're done here. Best of luck to you.

[DemGa]

38. Umm, if you noticed the PDF link??

Takes you straight to the bulletin - an interesting read. And best of luck to you as well - I think we are done here.

[doc03]

21. Here you go, Obama first claimed he never heard

Rev. Wright talk like that, then he said he didn't agree with everything he said. Then after it was obvious it was hurting him in the election he comes out and totally disowns the man. So apparently Obama himself finally realized Rev. Wright's comments were inflammatory. So now you want to know what views he shares with Rev. Wright well I would say since he sat and listened to him for 20 years and only denounced him when it became politically necessary to do so it is obvious. Oprah had the intelligence to realize Rev. Wright was way over the top more than 10 years ago and he could be a problem for her. Another thing what about his relationship with Ayers an admitted terroist? What about his dealings with Rhizo?

[stillcool]

25. Have you listened to Reverend Wrights'

20 years of sermons? Have you gone to the same church for 20 years, and always heard the same pastor? Always say the same thing? "His relationship" with Ayers? You mean they were both at a cocktail party, in 1996? Pathetic. Rinse and repeat ad nauseam.

[doc03]

32. Obama himself admitted Rev. Wright speech was

out of line, finally. So I don't have to prove anything Obama confirmed it himself. From what I have heard he had a lot more contact with Ayers than just a cocktail party.

[stillcool]

36. No shit! What you are asserting..

is that You Know that the pastor said the same thing for 20 years, and that Senator Obama listened to the same pastor say the same thing for 20 years. OOPS..My bad! The cocktail party was in 1995! I don't know what you've "Heard" about Ayers..I suspect a lot more of the same kind of horse shit. You know what I heard? Never mind...I can't repeat it.

ABC News
Clinton Camp Pushes O-Bomber Links: Ignores Her Own Radical Ties

By JUSTIN ROOD

Feb. 22, 2008—

The Hillary Clinton campaign pushed to reporters today stories about Barack Obama and his ties to former members of a radical domestic terrorist group -- but did not note that as president, Clinton's husband pardoned more than a dozen convicted violent radicals, including a member of the same group mentioned in the Obama stories.

"Wonder what the Republicans will do with this issue," mused Clinton spokesman Phil Singer in one e-mail to the media, containing a New York Sun article reporting a $200 contribution from William Ayers, a founding member of the Weather Underground, to Obama in 2001. (Obama's ties to the radical group first surfaced last week in a Bloomberg News article.)

In a separate e-mail, Singer forwarded an article from Politico.com reporting on a 1995 event at a private home that brought Obama together with Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, another former member of the radical group.

*** In his final day in office, President Clinton pardoned another one-time member of the Weather Underground, Susan L. Rosenberg, after she had served 16 years in prison on federal charges.

Rosenberg had been arrested in 1984 while unloading 740 pounds of dynamite, a submachine gun and other weapons from the back of a car.
----------------
And in 1999, President Clinton also pardoned 16 violent Puerto Rican nationalists responsible for more than 100 bombings of U.S. political and military installations, after they promised to renounce violence. The attacks reportedly killed six people and wounded dozens more. In justifying the pardons, President Clinton noted none of the men had been convicted of crimes that resulted in death or injuries.

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4330128

[FredScuttle]

26. Laura Bush has killed more people than William Ayers

and who's "Rhizo"? This Rizzo?




or this one?

[casus belli]

31. Sorry, I don't argue with Sean Hannity's talking points.

But I will say that if you don't see the difference between Obama saying he had never heard him make remarks about AIDS being a government plot and him saying that he had heard him give fiery sermons, then you might have problems with context.

[Occam Bandage]

12. Which views do you believe Wright and Obama share? Come out and say it.

None of this innuendo horseshit.

[DemGa]

14. I can't read the man's mind

Nevertheless, his story is implausible.

[Occam Bandage]

15. But yet you can read it well enough to say they share views. Which views do you think they share?

[DemGa]

17. What is difficult to understand here?

You sit and listen to someone preach for twenty years; you name your book for the man; he marries you, baptizes your children - you have a sense of what is happening around you, no?

If Obama can be this oblivious of his surroundings, maybe he's not up for the job.

[Occam Bandage]

18. I know I didn't join my church because of the political opinions of my priest.

What views do you believe they share? You seem insistent that he does. Which? A belief in God, in social justice, in redemption of man and society? Of course--and I should hope all Christians share that. What beliefs do you believe are particular to Wright and Obama?

[DemGa]

22. I have no idea what views he shares with Wright

I simply asked the OP (or anyone else)"Why is it racist to think Obama shares some of Wright's views?"

My main argument is that Obama has been quite aware of Wright's views - I simply do not accept that Obama is oblivious to what is right in front of him.

[doc03]

28. I totally agree with you and most other people seem to

agree whenever Obama's name comes up. Obama himself finally admitted Rev Wright's rhetoric was inflammatory, why did he only denounce him when it became politically necessary? Oprah realized Rev. Wright could be a problem for her better than 10 years ago when she quit his church. Obama continued to listen to his hate speech for 20 years then tried to hide him better than a year ago, he knew the things he said and thought he could keep them quiet. It's the MSM that should have brought that stuff to light before Obama had the nomination pretty much locked up. I honestly believe that is going to get McCain elected this fall.

[DemGa]

30. It certainly does play to the issue of trust

I doubt seriously we've seen the last of it.

[Leopolds Ghost]

20. Jesus said some pretty anti-family and unpatriotic remarks. He also vandalized a bank!

And MLK said some pretty controversial things, too. So did Martin Luther, and the Pope. (Several of them).

Do you take everything your spiritual adviser says literally at face value without thinking or interpreting?

[Occam Bandage]

23. Is this my excuse to break out this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5383101

[Leopolds Ghost]

39. Holy Jesus you got a rise out of those people!

My favorite spiritual adviser is Michael Sattler, who said:

"He has said that if the Turks should invade the country, no resistance ought to be offered them; and if it were right to wage war, he would rather take the field against the Christians than against the Turks; and it is certainly a great matter, to set the greatest enemies of our holy faith against us." In his trial, Sattler replied:

"If the Turks should come, we ought not to resist them; for it is written: Thou shalt not kill. We must not defend ourselves against the Turks and others of our persecutors, but are to beseech God with earnest prayer to repel and resist them. But that I said, that if warring were right, I would rather take the field against the so-called Christians, who persecute, apprehend and kill pious Christians, than against the Turks, was for this reason: The Turk is a true Turk, knows nothing of the Christian faith; and is a Turk after the flesh; but you, who would be Christians, and who make your boast of Christ, persecute the pious witnesses of Christ, and are Turks after the spirit."

Upon this speech the judges laughed and put their heads together, and the town clerk of Ensisheim said:

"O you infamous, desperate villain and monk, shall we dispute with you? The hangman shall dispute with you, I assure you."

The judges having returned to the room, the sentence was read. It was as follows: "In the case of the Governor of his Imperial Majesty versus Michael Sattler, judgment is passed, that Michael Sattler shall be delivered to the executioner, who shall lead him to the place of execution, and cut out his tongue; then throw him upon a wagon, and there tear his body twice with red hot tongs; and after he has been brought without the gate, he shall be pinched five times in the same manner."

After this had been done in the manner prescribed, he was burned to ashes as a heretic. His fellow brethren were executed with the sword, and the sisters drowned. His wife, also, after being subjected to many entreaties, admonitions and threats, under which she remained very steadfast, was drowned a few days afterwards. Done the 21st day of May, A. D. 1527.

[Terry_M]

16. So.. Half of whites in West Virginia

Are stupid...

[ShortnFiery]

27. No Obama did not spend much time campaigning there ... I do think with more

exposure and interactions, the good people of WV would have come to know the real man. :shrug:

[jwirr]

33. And how many of those polled are rw fundies?

[anonymous171]

40. Obama definately needs to campaign in through the entire midwest

They just haven't gotten to know him.

[TexasObserver]

42. it's the other half of whites we work with

[Leopolds Ghost]

46. Agreed.

[barack the house]

47. WV is mostly a senior state too(not that all seniors are for HRC), we win some lose some.

[MonkeyFunk]

48. What's racist about it?

I don't understand the charge - why is it racist to say he shares the same views as his preacher of 20 years?