I think it's interesting that both OR and WV are about the same percentage white.

[Poll_Blind]

  Yet OR is heavily favored to go to Obama and WV, Clinton. I just watched this video in the videos section, titled "Home of the HillaryBillies" and it got me wondering why the racism would still be so strong in WV after all these years.

  I grew up in the deep south (just south of New Orleans) and there was alot of racism. It permeated things to the point that, really, as a white person it just sort of seemed "normal". I know that's an aweful thing to say, but it's what I expereinced.

  Anyway, both states have very racist pasts. I'm interested in ideas about why Oregon changed and West Virginia didn't?

PB

[babylonsister]

1. Great question. And I have one for you.

What's south of New Orleans? I thought that was as far south as you could go in LA. Don't answer if you don't want to share; perhaps I should go look at a map! :P

[Catch22Dem]

6. I looked at moving to Belle Chasse in the 90s

It's south of NOLA.

[Poll_Blind]

7. Chalmette. There's farther-south places like Delecroix Island but there aren't...

..many people who live there (in comparison). There are even farther-south places in Louisiana, and I've been to a few of them, but they get pretty remote and swampy.

  Some of them require being able to finger-pick "Duelling Banjos" before entering, much in the same way that you'd have to declare foreign produce when entering California.

PB

[babylonsister]

13. Ha!

OK, gotcha. Tiny little islands I'd love to visit, but banjos aren't my forte'!

I think I envy you. I've read about these places, Conroy and Siddons I think have written about them.

To go back to simplicity, 'where everybody knows your name'. Well, maybe not. :hide:

[FARAFIELD]

2. More people MOVED to Oregon

Less people Moved Out of West Virginia. Its not called the whitest state in the Union for Nothing. It is just culture specific I dont feel (generally) that they like new things. Lets wait till its over to go too far though. Doesnt matter a DEM wont win that state whether Hillarys on the Ballot or not. the Rockerellers were there for years and Byrd used to be a Klan member thats the type of DEM they like I suppose. Although Manchin isnt that bad.

[Poll_Blind]

21. Hunh, yours is one of a few suggestions which implies that an influx of....

...different opinions was the cause of the change, or played some part in it. While another person in the thread pointed out that, of course, there is no single reason, I think that yours is a good start.

PB

[Withywindle]

35. Also, West Virginia has a serious brain-drain problem.

Especially in the south and central parts of the state - it's very poor and economically depressed. Life there can be very remote and isolated. There are very few jobs. Young people who grow up there who want an education, who might have progressive ideas...they LEAVE, if they can. Because they feel there's nothing for them there.

I run into fellow Appalachian expatriates everywhere. God bless the ones who stay and try to make things better there, but I just couldn't do it.

OTOH, I know a lot of people who've moved TO Oregon.

[IsItJustMe]

3. It's not necessarily about race. Some other factors may be as follows:

From my surmise, Bill Clinton was very popular in WV. Bill Clinton was also from the South (Arkansas). Now I am not saying that race is not playing a role, but there are other factors to take into consideration and I don't think the answer would be as clear cut as your question infers.

[Poll_Blind]

8. You're right. The AP piece that I linked to mentions that the Clintons had/have...

...a very good relationship with the West Virginians. It's right before the parts where the one lady freaks out after hearing Barack's middle name and the other mentions that she's "just uneasy with the other race."

  I had forgotten about that blurb at the beginning of the piece- Thank you!

  OnEdit: I should also add that Oregon was heavy Clinton country not too long ago. I don't know what kinds of things endeared the WV's to the Clintons but Oregonians were on their side until the perceived race-baiting started.

PB

[anonymous171]

24. Exactly, just b/c they like Clinton doesn't mean that they hate Obama or won't vote for him.

[Kittycat]

4. Progressives vs. Dixiecrats

Higher education levels, opportunity, etc.

[Leopolds Ghost]

41. Wrong. WV is not Dixie and was part of the RFK coalition. Educate yourself.

[DJ13]

5. Oregon in the 70's & 80's had a sizeable migration from California residents

I think they brought the more liberal ideals up with them.

[Poll_Blind]

25. I can attest to that. We moved to Eugene in '84 (not from Cali tho) and...

...there was a strong "you are the invaders" attitude- though it wasn't as serious as it might sound. At least in Eugene, there is still a "mixed" feel to the place.

PB

[depakid]

28. Anathema

By the 70's and 80's, Oregon was well ahead of California's curve.

And they've remained so.

Californians who come north adopt Oregon ways, or get tired of the rain and head back home.

[pkz]

9. Oregon nearly doubles population of WV

Oregon:

Population 3,421,399
Percentage White 86.6%
Percentage Black 1.6%
Percentage American Indian / Alaska Native 1.3%
Percentage Asian 3.0%
Percentage Native Hawaiian / Pacific Islander 0.2%
Percentage Mixed Race 3.1%
Percentage Other Race 4.2%
Percentage Hispanic 8.0%
Percentage Non Hispanic White 83.5%
Percentage Non Hispanic Black 1.6%

WV:


Population, 2006 estimate 1,818,470
Persons 65 years old and over, percent, 2006 15.3%
Female persons, percent, 2006 51.0%
White persons, percent, 2006 (a) 94.9%
Black persons, percent, 2006 (a) 3.3%
American Indian and Alaska Native persons, percent, 2006 (a) 0.2%
Asian persons, percent, 2006 (a) 0.6%
Persons reporting two or more races, percent, 2006 0.9% 1.6%
Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent, 2006 (b) 0.9%
White persons not Hispanic, percent, 2006 94.1%

[rove karl rove]

36. More older voters in WV too

different main industries, enviromental issues dominate politics on the West Coast

[Ice-9]

10. I think there are a number of factors at work.

I'm not sure they can be reduced to a single discrete phenomenon. And it's obviously not just WV versus Oregon. WV is to Oregon as Kentucky is to Vermont. (I don't have the stats at my fingertips, but my guess is that Kentucky and Vermont are also quite white demographically.)

Anyway, both states have very racist pasts. I'm interested in ideas about why Oregon changed and West Virginia didn't?

Let me know if you find out, because I would love to know the answer to that one too!

:)

[NotThisTime]

22. We're in Vermont and very progressive, but I suppose not all of Vermont is that way

But Obama is huge here, got 59% of the vote. Big college turnout, big young turnout, even big older turnout... big turnout all the way around & we are a very white state, small in number, but quite liberal and progressive. Industry is thriving for the most part, second lowest foreclosures in the country.... it's a bit expensive to live here, but you get what you pay for, a great place to live.

[rug]

11. Class trumps race.

[babylonsister]

16. What does that mean? nt

[rug]

31. It means, in this context, that Clinton is more responsive to working class issues that dominate WV.

Oregon is much more economically diverse so working class issues don't dominate politics.

It has nothing at all to do with race.

[Poll_Blind]

26. If I understand your meaning, I heartily agree. It was only a few years ago that...

..I realized that (to me) that class far outweighs race when it comes to interactions between people.

PB

[rug]

27. I hope politics revolves around class issues rather than race issues soon.

[AllentownJake]

12. Do they mine coal in Oregon?

I don't think this is about race as it is about economics. I could be wrong.

[Oregone]

17. Not so much. But we used to cut lumber...now we just have bitter dried up towns to show for it...

Where no other economy was able to florish in its place.

[AllentownJake]

18. That's sad

Hillary isn't dressing up like a lumber jack out there is she?

[Oregone]

30. Not yet that I know of. But yes its sad...

Places like Oakridge and Alsea (highest per capita citizens in Iraq). Once you live in one of those "Sometimes a great notion" communities, you'll understand the depth of the problem now. There is a bitterness, a lost sense of entitlement from when things were going good, a suffocating stench of failure keeping the towns down. There's just nothing, for towns off I5 to help lift them up. For the coastal towns that had hot property, that time of prosperity is long gone, and for the others, plagued with record number of kids on federal food programs, there was never any hope to replace the timber industry.

[Tesha]

42. You mean like this?

"Hillary's a lumberjack, and she's okay..."

[depakid]

33. A common story in the West

The boom bust cycle.

Though with forestry, it didn't have to be that way. The National Forests Management Act passed in the mid 70's required that timber be managed according to what's called sustained yield- meaning that areas of public forests could only be harvested at a rate at which they could be replanted and regrown.

Impressive how we knew this stuff, 30 years ago, eh?

When Reagan was elected, he turned the Forest Service over to a guy named John B. Crowell, who at the time was the general counsel for Louisiana Pacific -a timber company that was known in the industry as a "cut and run" operation.

Through a number of mechanizations, he and his cronies cut WAY past sustained yield- and even before the results of their mismanagement started showing up, some of the "elitists" tried to warn policymakers about what would likely happen.

Yep, and a bit before the spotted owl took the stage- some were using what many considered to be persuasive and undeniable economics, ecology and history to butress their arguments.

Not so different from much of what we see today in well, pick a resource issue.

[Art_from_Ark]

19. I have heard that mountaintop removal to mine coal is a big issue

in West Virginia. Obama cozied up to coal interests in southern Illinois. Maybe that's one reason why Obama is not as popular in WV.

[AllentownJake]

20. The people out there

aren't as stupid as they are potrayed here. I guarentee you that they are very aware of everyone's current enviromental plans when it comes to coal.

[Oregone]

14. Gut feeling: Oregon will be much closer than people expect.

People are voting NOW. If Obama doesn't get in here quick, in a lot of towns, and soon, the numbers will be much closer. Southern Oregon will go big for Hillary.

[AllentownJake]

15. He basically

Camped out there all weekend and is going back later in the week.

[CoffeeCat]

23. No one wants to say it...but it's about education level...

Obama won Iowa--the first state out of the gate--and that state is 96 percent white. He also won Wisconsin, Minnesota,
Nebraska, Kansas.

All of those states are just like Iowa--very few African Americans.

Obama is winning the white vote. He can win the white vote. However, he does have trouble
in some states, with whites who do not have college degrees and who make fewer than $50,000 a year. Not
always, but lower incomes translate into people who are less educated.

The independent variable here--isn't race. The dividing line is EDUCATION.

Every time Hillary wins the majority of white votes, she makes the erroneous case that she gets the
white vote and Obama can't. You never heard Obama making the same case--when he garnered strong
victories in those "white" states that I mentioned above. She's making false assertions, in an attempt
to paint him as the African American candidate who won't get white people to vote for him.

That's patently false and the facts don't support that.

What the facts support is that Hillary does well with uneducated voters. Not all of Hillary's supporters
are uneducated, in the same way that not all of Bush's supporters were Evangelicals. Hillary has figured
out a way to pull in those uneducated people, in the same way that Bush pulled in the Evangelicals.

Uneducated people who make very little money are important. Their concerns should be heard and the Democrats
have a rich and proud history of being the party that does not ignore people due to lack of education and
income. In fact, these people are often forgotten, and rarely have a voice. These people are just as important
as Democrats making six figures and sporting college degrees on their walls.

There's been a very twisted, self-serving attempt to start class warfare in our party--between the so-called "latte liberals"
and the "lunch-pail" Democrats. Personally, I'd be honored to sip my latte with a fellow blue-collar Dem--and
buy him a beer.

We're all in this crazy world together. We all know the Republicans are destroying this country. Despite the
artificial lines that are being painted in our party--I hope we can all come together and recognize and respect
each other's differences--and the important contributions that all of us bring to the Democratic party.

[crankychatter]

29. Abraham Lincoln was a Republican

and in some communities that is the only reason they're Democrats

[Poll_Blind]

32. !

  I can't deny it, because I've seen that kind of mentality, grown up with it.

  But when you put it like that...wow, just wow!

PB

[Beregond2]

34. Oregon's past

WAS racist, but what state's wasn't? That was long ago. Granted, it is easy to rid yourself of racist attitudes when most of the people are the same race.

As a rule, I find people in the Northwest tend not to fit into categories very well. They came (and come) here partly to get away from those old ideas. Examples: Oregon is the most "unchurched" state in the country; but that doesn't mean the people aren't religious and/or spiritual. At a time when OR was largely Republican, they consistently elected the most liberal Senator in the nation, Wayne Morse. Long before most of the country had started to think about ecology, Oregon had a "bottle bill," all beaches were public property, and the state slogan was: "Come visit; just don't stay!" This in a sate whose main industry was timber at that time. So it's a unique place.

One thing that I must object to is the idea that liberalism came to the Northwest from California. Uh, ever hear of the IWA? The Wobblies? Back east, they used to refer to WA as the Soviet Republic of Washington. The only things Californians brought to the Northwest were inflation and bad driving. Ashland was liberal long before it was Californicated, as was Eugene.

OK, here's one very embarrasing story about racism in Portland. I was having a beer with an older woman friend of mine one evening, and she started saying, loudly:

"I just don't see why everyone is so sensitive about race these days. Why, when I was a girl, the most popular restaurant in town was the Coon Chicken Inn. You entered through this giant pair of lips, and no one thought anything of it!"

My jaw was on my chest in horror, partly because the booth behind my friend was filled with a black family. Fortunately, they were roaring with laughter, mostly at my mortification I think!

I did some research later, and sure enough, there was the restaurant, and the entrance was indeed a black man's mouth!

[fujiyama]

37. Oregon has had a considerable influx of people from elsewhere

Almost everyone I meet out here is a transplant (and hardly anyone also knows the directions to anywhere)! Many are from the midwest. I think people have come out here to escape something. That's the story of many Western states.

Obama has done very well in Rocky Mountain and planes states. Partly it's due to the different brand of conservatism out West compared to the deep south. In Mountain West states it's more libertarian. In the South it's the religious right. KT and WV have had large numbers of people moving out due to being economically depressed. In those kind of times, it's easy to find a scapegoat. Also, while Oregon has racism in its history, the history of race itself is not as new out here. In KT, WV, etc. it goes back pre civil war...

[Jed Dilligan]

38. Oregon has a real city, for one thing

and the racists are more separatist, not likely to vote in elections for a government they consider illegitimate.

[TexasObserver]

39. It just proves how your upbringing matters. WV has that Old South attitude.

Guilt is a powerful thing, and it drives the WV fear, which drives their racist attitudes about blacks and therefore towards Obama.

[ecdab]

40. The civil rights movement wasn't strong in WV. Combine that with the

fact that WV hasn't attracted people to relocate there and you have a younger generation that hasn't been exposed to many ideas that people in places like Oregon have been. Ideas generally don't change in a vacuum and new ideas haven't been coming to WV for a long time. It's a complex question you ask - but I think the states lack of economic development is prime reason why WV has developed slowly on many fronts.