Obama: "I'll do what's right by Florida voters"

[MonkeyFunk]

Back in September. While holding a news conference (itself in violation of the pledge), he was asked about the florida delegates and said he'd "do what's right" by the voters.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking

TAMPA - Barack Obama hinted during a Tampa fundraiser Sunday that if he's the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, he'll seat a Florida delegation at the party's national convention, despite national party sanctions prohibiting it.

Obama also appeared to violate a pledge he and the other leading candidates took by holding a brief news conference outside the fundraiser. That was less than a day after the pledge took effect Saturday, and Obama is the first Democratic presidential candidate to visit Florida since then.

Obama and others have pledged not to campaign in Florida until the Jan. 29 primary except for fundraising, which is what he was doing in Tampa.

...

According to Sanchez and Tom Scarritt, Obama was asked during the event about making sure Floridians have a role in the nomination, despite the DNC sanctions and the pledge. Scarritt said Obama responded that he'll "do what's right by Florida voters."

Why is this never mentioned in all the discussions of how Clinton is trying to seat the delegates against the rules? Obama wanted to do the same thing - and he said so while violating the letter of the pledge. He also later ran commercials in Florida, in direct violation of the pledge.

So all these attacks that Clinton is breaking the pledge are just nonsense. The pledge didn't say they wouldn't try to seat the delegates, and Obama is the only one who broke the clear text of the pledge - twice.

[Occam Bandage]

1. Sounds pretty noncommital to me.

[MonkeyFunk]

4. The point is that Obama himself

evidently think trying to seat the delegates violated the pledge.

[SoCalDem]

19. "seating" them is no problem, and he probably intends to do that

Their VOTES (delegates) will NOT count towards the total, nor could they ALTER the outcome..

but HEY.. they can go to the convention and join in the festivities..

Like Mom sending you to your room, but letting you watch TV :)

[Occam Bandage]

23. "Evidently." "Apparently." Both words for

"I got nothin', but you might interpret this ambiguous action and/or statement to mean this:"

[Bonobo]

33. LOL! That's the way he plays. Thanks for calling OP on it.

[MonkeyFunk]

40. Sad

[MonkeyFunk]

34. No

I have what I posted in the OP. Obama said he would "do what's right" by Florida voters. Do you interpet that to mean disenfranchise them?

[Occam Bandage]

38. I can interpret that in several ways.

I can interpret that to mean that he will fully seat the delegates.
I can interpret that to mean that he will honestly negotiate and attempt to come to a mutually-satisfactory compromise. For the record, this is what I think he meant.
I can interpret that to mean that he will unilaterally demand the seating of what he believes is a fair proportion of the delegates, considering the deliberate violations of DNC rules on the part of the Florida Democratic Party.
I can interpret that to mean that he will seat no voting delegates, but allow a delegation of observers who have the ability to raise issues, speak, network, and advocate for the issues of Floridians but who will not vote for the nominee.
I can interpret that to mean that he was declaring intent to push for a DNC-financed re-vote, but that he also will not allow any representation until said re-vote.

There's no reason to believe that "I will do what is right" means "I will do what MonkeyFunk thinks is right."

[Tinksrival]

49. You left this out >>>>>

>>>>>>From your link:

That date - earlier than allowed by rules of both major political parties - has led to a threat of sanctions against both Florida Republicans and Democrats, and to the Democrats' boycott pledge.

"This wasn't planned," Sanchez said of the brief press availability. "He was going to the car, and he just went across the street for a moment."

THE PRESS WAS OUTSIDE HIS FUNDRAISER.It was less than a day since the pledge. Going to the car, he was polite and answered less than six questions. It was NOT a press conference.

Also from your link:

Obama seemed unaware the pledge he signed prohibits news conferences. Asked whether he was violating it, he said, "I was just doing you guys a favor. … If that's the case, then we won't do it again."

Is this really an issue for you?



Also from your link:

The DNC has threatened to refuse to seat a Florida convention delegation because of the too-early primary, which the Florida Legislature decided on last spring. But if a candidate amasses enough delegates before the primary to ensure the nomination, that candidate would take control of the convention, including the power to seat a delegation.

[Maddy McCall]

2. Obama acted less than honorably in Florida...

And his unwillingness to seat the delegates tells me a lot about what he thinks about democracy....and Democratic values.

[barb162]

13. You got that straight Maddy

just like you always do.

:)

He cares about getting elected, not the Florida voters.

[Weevlitz]

25. and I suppose you think that Hillary DOES care???

If you think for one second that Hillary actually CARES about the voters in Florida then you are just plain foolish. I'm sorry. She only cares about them now, because she believes she needs them to win. When the dems took this pledge, it was still assumed that Hillary would be the nominee of the party. So she signed the pledge to essentially..."Disenfranchise" the voters of Florida and Michigan, figuring the race would be over long before their voices mattered. Now that she's losing...all of a sudden she cares about them? BULL! So please don't act like she actually cares about the people...when she clearly only cares about herself and getting herself elected. If she really cared about those people's voices and votes, she would have never signed that agreement. An agreement that, if you ask me, should never have been made in the first place. I'm ashamed of ALL of the candidates who signed it.

[gateley]

31. She cared enough to dangle a gas tax holiday in front of people --

all the while ignoring the advice of the economists and KNOWING it would be vetoed. She cared enough to give people false hope. That's how much she truly cares.

[Weevlitz]

32. I'm proud of the people...

that didn't let that gas-tax holiday garbage actually convince them to vote for her. Not sure what the actual numbers were in the exit-polling, but most of them said that they thought it was "pandering" for votes.

[skipos]

26. FUNNY!

Ah yes, ole selfless Hillary, oh so concerned about MI. Read my sig.

[Weevlitz]

30. Great Sig! Said better than I could!

[mystieus]

47. Love your avatar! *adds to buddy list*

[Occam Bandage]

16. "tells me a lot about what he thinks about democracy"

For instance, the fact that he stands in favor of upholding the Democratic rules all candidates (and states) agreed to beforehand tells you that he respects the democratic process.

The losing candidate, by comparison, prefers to go back and change the rules once it becomes clear that doing so would be to her benefit.

Call me crazy, but after 2000 and 2004, I'm gonna go with the guy who isn't in favor of twisting the rules after the fact.

[skipos]

28. You shouldn't bother with the Baghdad Bob/ Maddy / flat earth types

You are absolutely correct, but they will never be able to admit it.

[MonkeyFunk]

35. LOL

now that he's lost those states, you claim he's taking the principled stand. But that wasn't his position back in September.

[Occam Bandage]

42. ...according to your interpretation of an ambiguous non-answer, yes.

[Pab Sungenis]

3. .

[MonkeyFunk]

7. You think this is a dead horse?

It's a rather big topic in Democratic circles, you know.

[Maddy McCall]

11. No, it's not.

Unless you think that the votes of one million+ voters is a dead-horse issue.

Until the issue is resolved, it's very much a horse...a living, breathing, galloping horse.

[Pab Sungenis]

21. It doesn't matter at all.

Even with the MIFL delegates being seated, Hillary still loses.

[Maddy McCall]

56. That's a warped way of looking at democracy.

"It doesn't matter."

[Pab Sungenis]

57. It doesn't.

The state committees voted knowing that doing so would disqualify them.

The voters in those primaries voted (or stayed home) knowing they wouldn't count.

And now the race is over, so your recrimninations don't matter at all.

once again....

[wileedog]

5. He said he would seat them when "he's the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee"

Are you admitting he is?

Has Dean said anything different lately about seating them at the Convention?

[MonkeyFunk]

12. That's not what he said back in September.

Unless you have a different quote than the one in the article.

[wileedog]

15. Huh? I quoted the article

"Barack Obama hinted during a Tampa fundraiser Sunday that if he's the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, he'll seat a Florida delegation at the party's national convention, despite national party sanctions prohibiting it."

What am I missing?

[MonkeyFunk]

36. ah, I'm sorry

I misunderstood. My error.

If he weren't the nominee, he wouldn't have any power to do squat about the delegates, would he?

The fact is, nobody thought FL and MI would actually come into play, but they have. Do you honestly believe that if Obama had won Florida, he'd still be opposed to seating them? Both candidates are doing what's politically best for them - I'd expect nothing less.

So let's try to forget who benefits and who loses, and ask the basic question: Is it right to disenfranchise two large states?

[wileedog]

46. No worries, it happens

"Do you honestly believe that if Obama had won Florida, he'd still be opposed to seating them? Both candidates are doing what's politically best for them - I'd expect nothing less."

I don't disagree with you, but the thing is Obama has the rules on his side here.

And quite honestly, just because they came into play, Dean is well within his right - in fact really it is his job - to enforce them. I'm not kidding when I think it will become complete chaos if he sat them in a meaningful manner with no punishment. I don't see why important states like PA and NC wouldn't start trying to leapfog ahead in future elections, and the DNC would be powerless to stop it.

What are you going to do, disenfranchise OH if they move to January after you let MI and FL get away with it? That would piss them off even more.

Moreover, I would have more sympathy for the entire argument if all of this handwringing happened before a single vote was cast, not in what comes up as a mad scramble for last minute votes from a candidate that needs them.

And honestly, I find the MI arguements beyond dishonest. "He took his name off!" is not a valid point in any way.



"So let's try to forget who benefits and who loses, and ask the basic question: Is it right to disenfranchise two large states?"

Lets not forget the big picture: Is it right to let big states flout the Party rules with no punishment? I dont think you can defang the party leadership that way without consequences.

What I truly hope comes out of this is a Primary Reform and schedule that makes sense going forward. And in the end, I don't think there will be massive defections to McCain because of Primary voting. I think there is a lot of posturing going on, just like when they made the moves in the first place.

I'm sure you disagree, but that's why we're here, eh?

[MercutioATC]

6. This is only the candidates' decision to the degree the DNC allows it to be.

Personally, I think the "Iowa first" system should be changed.

That said, the DNC makes the rules and it's the only body that has authority to change them.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

8. Razzle Dazzle them Chicago Style.....

O Style

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn5-VN3SH1o

[Exilednight]

9. Fundraising in FL was not against the pledge. Obama never directly spoke with reporters .........

he spoke at a fund raiser and reporters were there covering it.

[MonkeyFunk]

14. Did you read the article?

I'm not claiming the fundraiser violated the pledge - having a press conference did, though.

As did running commercials there.

[Exilednight]

20. Show me in the pledge where it said he couldn't talk to reporters. n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

37. I believe it falls under

the category of "campaigning".

[Exilednight]

48. You believe? To use your previous arguments against you, that's nothing more ....

than your way to interpret it.

[stillcool]

52. talking to the press...

outside a fundraiser is Campaigning? What about inside the fundraiser? What about at the airport?

[Weevlitz]

29. Question about the commericals..

Now, I could be wrong here. I'm not sure exactly what happened...but it was my understanding that the commericals that ran in Florida actually only ran in the northwest (panhandle if you will) part of the state, and they were a leak-over from Alabama and Georgia. Very similar to ads that would run in Chicago and leak over into the NW part of Indiana. Again, not sure if I'm accurate here, but I do seem to remember hearing that. I assume that it's true, otherwise, I think a bigger deal would have been made about it.

[MonkeyFunk]

39. No

they were not "spillover" ads. They were national ads that ran throughout the country, including Florida.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/01/obama_airs_nati.html


IF Clinton had done it, there would've been a big deal made of it. But it was Obama, so it doesn't get brought up much.

[Weevlitz]

44. Ahhh

I see...so they were "national" ads. I get it. I knew that it wasn't specifically Florida ads...but you're right...a violation of the pledge indeed.

[stillcool]

53. It was approved by the DNC

in other words..."within the Rules".

[rodeodance]

55. he cheated. simple as that.

[virtualobserver]

10. after he has the nomination, he will seat them

[TheDoorbellRang]

17. Of course the FL and MI delegates will be seated.

It's when and how they will be seated that has been the bone of contention.

By the DNC sanctions against FL and MI this year, there will be much less chance of pandemonium caused by even more "me first" states in 2012.

[sandnsea]

18. She has claimed a win where there was no campaign

She has claimed a win where her opponent's name wasn't on the ballot, after saying everybody knows Michigan won't count. You cannot spin that away. She and her defenders are Morally Bankrupt. That is all there is to it. Just Stop It.

[AtomicKitten]

22. both FL and MI were disqualified for breaking DNC rules - period

All this pot-banging to try to bamboozle the electorate into thinking Obama somehow is to blame for this is bullshit. McAullife is his recent book took on the same stance Dean is now taking regarding enforcing party rules.

Hillary's people crafted the policy, she signed on to the disposition of FL and MI like every other candidate did beforehand, and she is now desperately trying to spin the rules in the middle of the game.

[fascisthunter]

24. You Sound "Bitter"

[MonkeyFunk]

41. Nope not at all

just refuting some ideas that have been thrown around here a lot.

[skipos]

27. Having the nominee seat our the delegates seated for closure... is fine by me

Having the non-nominee seat our delegates in some sort of Baghdad Bob/ delusional quest to get the nomination (even though she has lost the most votes, the most states the most pds and the most sds)... is not.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

43. How about we just put aside all the talk about candidate pledges, what FL state officials did...

....or did not do, or talk about what specific candidates did or did not do, and simply do the right thing.

Seat the elected delgates from Florida.

This is about no candidate. This is about giving proper effect to Florida's voters' vote, who did nothing wrong other than showing up at the polls.

[dcindian]

45. They want all votes to count until the supers over turn the primary.

So basically they want no votes to count. You can't have it both ways but you want to.

[Blue-Jay]

50. Neither Clinton nor Obama have any say in the seating of FL delegates.

It's not up to either one of them, if I understand the DNC rules correctly. Hell, even Dean is only following the rules that were in effect prior to his appointment as Chairman.

I'd like for every vote to count as much as you would, but what's the solution?

[stillcool]

51. I think we all know by now...

that the national commercial Obama ran was approved by the DNC. Second...the pledge...

Editorial: Follow DNC rules on seating delegates
February 25, 2008
By Editorial Board

On September 1, the campaigns of Clinton and Senator Barack Obama (D-Ill.) issued press releases stating that they had signed pledges affirming the DNC’s decision to approve certain representative states and sanction others for moving their nominating contests earlier. But now that the race is close, Clinton — whose top advisor Harold Ickes voted as a member of the DNC to strip Florida and Michigan of their delegates — is pushing for the delegates to be seated.
Her argument is that not doing so disenfranchises the 1.7 million Florida Democrats who voted and that her pledge promised only that she wouldn’t campaign in the states, not that she wouldn’t try to seat the delegates. However, the results of the contests in Florida and Michigan are not necessarily representative of the voters’ preferences in those states. Given that most of the candidates removed their names from the
Michigan ballot, and that many voters stayed home from the vote in Florida with the understanding that their contest would not affect the final delegate count, the delegate totals that the candidates accumulated in these states may not accurately reflect the will of the voters. Had there been no restrictions in Michigan and Florida, the turnout, and thus the results, may have been different.

The Four State Pledge all candidates signed on Aug. 28 stated, “Whereas, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee will strip states of 100% of their delegates and super delegates to the DNC National Convention if they violate the nomination calendar...

Therefore, I ____________, Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules ...pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window.” When the candidates pledged to campaign only in approved states, they were also agreeing to the terms listed above, which explicitly mentioned stripping noncompliant states of their entire delegation.


House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) recently said that the Florida and Michigan delegates should not be seated if they would decide the nomination. Other compromise proposals include holding new nominating contests in these states, but such contests would be expensive and cumbersome. The irony is that had Florida and Michigan not moved up their primaries, they would have voted in February and March, when they would have been even more important than in earlier months in determining the Democratic nominee — and would not have created an enormous controversy that has the potential to divide the party.
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2008/2/25/editorialFollowDncRulesOnSeatingDelegates

There is no doubt the Delegation will be seated..what is in doubt is how.

[Dr Fate]

54. I'm ready to start fighting McCain & the GOP whenever you are.

n/t