Why don't more people mention the fact that when Clinton talks about the popular vote, she isn't

[julialnyc]

she isn't counting caucus states. It drives me nuts on all of these programs that nobody ever brings this up when Hillary, Terry, etc... talk about catching up in the popular vote. They make a big fuss about counting the states that broke the rules, but conveniently don't count many more states.

Whenever I tell people that that the "popular vote" (or as Terry said it on MTP...."more people will have voted for Clinton") doesn't include caucuses they are shocked. I don't think your average person realizes this.

[NC_Nurse]

1. Yep. I had no idea about that until I heard it here. Definitely a big deal.

[julialnyc]

2. Not many people do

I have many friends and family that are very "into" politics and it always is a surprise when I tell them this.

I wish Obama surrogates would bring this up

[julialnyc]

3. Perhaps we should write the media with this?

[MikeDJohn]

4. This is JUST TYPICAL Clinton McAsshat lying! Another reason why

She's a poor candidate, she's not even CANDID with the voters!


We've seen it over Bosnia, we've seen it over how they play with the numbers......ignore all the caucuses, etc.


Terry McAsshat has run his last campaign, and better find himself a day job, if anyone will believe his resume.

[graycem]

5. Is it her fault

that you don't understand Clinton math? Caucus states don't count, durr (unless she won them). No caucuses in the GE. :P

[julialnyc]

6. It just blows my mind that the press never mentions this

This popular vote line is repeated over and over and nobody ever mentions this fact (most people presume it counts all the states)

[graycem]

9. I think they are pretty much..

in the "why bother" mode. I mean it'll just change again, and it will change nothing. The SD's who are putting him over the top know the score. She might be tricking some of her supporters, but she's not fooling them.

[julialnyc]

10. I think you're right

It just drives me bananas when I listen to Terry on MTP tell Tim Russert that at the end of this more people will have voted for her (which will likely not be the case anyway) and he doesn't say, but your not counting the voters from Iowa, Nevada, etc...

[graycem]

12. It used to frustrate me too,

but then I realize that Obama's won, and they've become irrelevant, so everyone is doing nothing more than amusing them. Even Terry knows his spinning is ridiculous that's why he laughs so much, and talks so fast while he's doing it, but he will continue to do it until Hillary decides it's time to exit. Now it's no longer frustrating, just funny. Instead of having the urge to throw something at my t.v., I literally just laugh at them making asses of themselves. One good thing about it, we'll have our own spinners in the GE I guess against the Republican spinners. :P

[julialnyc]

13. I need to take a deep breath

and follow your lead!

[graycem]

14. Yeah, just look at those

beautiful numbers. He's added like 5 more SD's today alone. He's winning in EVERY measure. There is nothing short of an Obama implosion that can turn this around now. No amount of WV/KY spin. No amount of electability spin. No amount of white vote spin. They're pretty much left with nothing to argue so they're left with that one little straw of hope. But the very people they need to convince with that, aren't buying it as their constant move towards Obama illustrates.

Even the whole FL/MI debacle is just spin, because even when they seat those, it won't help her win, he will still be ahead in every measure, even the popular vote. That's why they haven't accepted any sort of deal though fair ones are being offered. If she accepts the deal she's forced to give up that false argument. I really think the only reason she's still in is that she is getting bad advice from those working for her, and working furiously to find something, anything to sink Obama. Or, she just wants to go out on a high note, after wins in WV & KY.

I just try to remember all the frustration over Wright, and the constant playing of that the weekend before Indiana and NC, and at the end of the day, he lost Indiana by less than 1% even though you won't hear them admit THAT either. And nothing they can say was worse than the Rev.Wright knee-capping. So have a laugh at Terry, chuckling as he spins, and enjoy the WTF looks on the faces of the people hosting his spinfest, especially when he tells Tim his dad is looking down from heaven, even though his dad apparently isn't dead. Desperation often makes people exhibit bizarre behavior. Ahhhhh, Terry, you're a riot.

[julialnyc]

15. Thank you!

You have just made me feel much better!

[graycem]

17. Glad I did! :)

Just a few weeks to go. :party:

[SoonerPride]

7. You forget, caucus states don't count

I thought we'd been over that already.

[electron_blue]

8. Ya mean she's leaving out Minnesotans?

Link? I have been wondering whether this was even true about su pposedly catching the pop vote. Seems awfully unlikely.

[CakeGrrl]

11. I've posted this on another thread where they linked to a CNN poll

That has a large majority of responses saying that the popular vote should count more than delegates.

That just proves that:

1) People don't understand the purpose of the delegate apportionment system or how it works;

2) The MSM continues to prop up Hillary Clinton, refusing to debunk the last option she has.

I agree that the Obama camp needs to explain why this claim for MI and FL would not be valid...if they can get the airtime to do it.

But then...what possible reason would remain for Hillary to stay in the race?

:eyes:

[rinsd]

16. She likely is including the caucus states. Her problem is including MI.

Only 4 caucus states didn't release pop vote figures(IA, ME, WA, NV and RCP has estimated a 110,000 voter advantage for Obama in those 4 states.

But Obama was not on the ballot in MI, so I don't think you can use the pop vote total from MI.

Here are the various pop vote scenarios.

State		       Obama	            Clinton	               Spread
Popular Vote Total	   16,003,521	49.5%	15,266,942	47.3%	Obama +736,579	+2.2%
		
Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA* 16,337,605	49.6%	15,490,804	47.0%   Obama +846,801	+2.6%
		
Popular Vote (w/FL)	   16,579,735	48.7%	16,137,928	47.4%   Obama +441,807	+1.3%
		
Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA* 16,913,819	48.7%	16,361,790	47.1%	Obama +552,029	+1.6%
		
Popular Vote (w/FL & MI)** 16,579,735	47.9%	16,466,237	47.5%   Obama +113,498	+0.33%
		
Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA* 16,913,819	47.9%	16,690,099	47.3%	Obama +223,720	+0.64%

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html